Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 12:41:20 GMT -5
Well hold on there now smokeyjack! I know you're not going to go snitchin', are you? Look, the guy is learning about how to communicate and be tactful with the things he does and says. Give coach a break and it ain't that serious for you to go stirring up trouble. It is just a game. It isn't life or death so calm down. Yet another thing that he has to learn on the job. Seems like hiring a guy who had some of the basic coaching and leadership skills already developed would have been a better idea. 9797, we already know you're not a Ewing fan so you're going to have negative things to say about him when he loses. When he wins and does the things, in that win that you claim he doesn't do (the basic coaching, the leadership crap you spew all the time), you don't say a damn thing. It isn't a whisper from you. You come up with excuses like, "I was in bed so therefore I wasn't paying attention". Where's your energy when the team wins? At least smokeyjack can give it up to Ewing when the team wins. You on the other hand, I have yet to witness it.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Feb 10, 2021 12:49:34 GMT -5
Yet another thing that he has to learn on the job. Seems like hiring a guy who had some of the basic coaching and leadership skills already developed would have been a better idea. 9797, we already know you're not a Ewing fan so you're going to have negative things to say about him when he loses. When he wins and does the things, in that win that you claim he doesn't do (the basic coaching, the leadership crap you spew all the time), you don't say a damn thing. It isn't a whisper from you. You come up with excuses like, "I was in bed so therefore I wasn't paying attention". Where's your energy when the team wins? At least smokeyjack can give it up to Ewing when the team wins. You on the other hand, I have yet to witness it. when they beat Creighton, I did complement them and expressed hope that it was a good sign for the future. But, I'm still looking at the entire body of work which is horrible. Given everything we've seen, it's clear that the occasional good stretch of games are a fluke. It's fun to see an upset win here and there but the results over nearly four years are clear and it's obvious that this guy is incompetent and is not the answer.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Feb 10, 2021 12:51:34 GMT -5
That game was hot garbage. One other point, in limited minutes I don't see how Holloway ever sees the floor. He is a undersized wing who seems like a better fit at the 4 but his athleticism will cap any ability to contribute at that spot. I would like any minutes going to Clark or Sibley as at least they have the athleticism to grow into spots. I would also have liked to see us go small last night since we clearly weren't getting anything from our bigs. The Sibley, Pickett, Bile front line is fine in terms of size. Holloway has played 18 minutes total this season. I don't understand how we as fans, or Ewing as a coach has enough data there to make a judgement on his future at this point. Even if you are right, this game was completely out of hand with 10 minutes to go, and Pickett/Carey/Blair/Harris still racked up tons of garbage minutes. Why not turn the point over to Berger? Why not stick Wilson in for longer? Why not play Holloway? Why not exclusively play Ighoefe over Wahab? Reading people flipping back and forth between last week's "oh my god this team won a game at Creighton, Georgetown is back, screw all you haters" and this week's "this team is hot garbage" is ridiculous. This was a non-competitive team from Game 1 of this season, and we're completely wasting the opportunity to improve next year by not auditioning these freshmen. Even if Ewing intends to force some of them out and retain Pickett or Blair or Carey or Bile, you still should be playing the freshmen so you know what you're losing. I don't think he's played any of them enough to know what he has. You know I’m not a fan of Pat the coach, but one thing he does really well is evaluate talent. If guys aren’t playing, there is a reason he sees in practice every day. That means other than Harris and Sibs, you probably aren’t going to see those guys on the floor next season either. They’ve already been recruited over...which actually isn’t a shock. The lion’s share of the frosh class and transfers were all desperation pickups when 1/3 of the team transferred out early last season. I’m guessing Ewing knew half of them were practice players very unlikely to ever make an impact on the Hilltop. There’s only so much lipstick...
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 10, 2021 12:55:54 GMT -5
Holloway has played 18 minutes total this season. I don't understand how we as fans, or Ewing as a coach has enough data there to make a judgement on his future at this point. Even if you are right, this game was completely out of hand with 10 minutes to go, and Pickett/Carey/Blair/Harris still racked up tons of garbage minutes. Why not turn the point over to Berger? Why not stick Wilson in for longer? Why not play Holloway? Why not exclusively play Ighoefe over Wahab? Reading people flipping back and forth between last week's "oh my god this team won a game at Creighton, Georgetown is back, screw all you haters" and this week's "this team is hot garbage" is ridiculous. This was a non-competitive team from Game 1 of this season, and we're completely wasting the opportunity to improve next year by not auditioning these freshmen. Even if Ewing intends to force some of them out and retain Pickett or Blair or Carey or Bile, you still should be playing the freshmen so you know what you're losing. I don't think he's played any of them enough to know what he has. You know I’m not a fan of Pat the coach, but one thing he does really well is evaluate talent. If guys aren’t playing, there is a reason he sees in practice every day. That means other than Harris and Sibs, you probably aren’t going to see those guys on the floor next season either. They’ve already been recruited over...which actually isn’t a shock. The lion’s share of the frosh class and transfers were all desperation pickups when 1/3 of the team transferred out early last season. I’m guessing Ewing knew half of them were practice players very unlikely to ever make an impact on the Hilltop. I don't disagree with this at all.
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Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Feb 10, 2021 13:03:23 GMT -5
Serious question: If Ewing says in his post-game that the centers need to pass out to the open shooter and the player does not do it, what is the solution? Who’s at fault? How does a coach get a player to do what the coach wants? This is exactly what drives me up the wall. Ewing says the post players won't pass out to the open shooter. Ewing says that the players were selfish tonight. Ewing says the players were not ready to play. But Ewing is not one of us helplessly screaming at our monitors wanting Wahab to make a pass, stop putting the ball on the floor where he turns into a 6'6" post instead of 6'11", begging the coach to pull an out of control and selfish Bile out of the game, wondering how to get Blair not to try and force shots when he's not open, wondering how to get Carey into a game as a spot up shooter instead of ballhandler, trying to keep Harris calmed down when he starts forcing passes and trying to figure out how to get Wahab/Tim to play even passable defense. Ewing is the coach. These are all part of the job description. I give him lots of credit for the past few games and the apparent February improvement I expected, but at some point the progress has to be maintained and it is his job to provide answers. Random thoughts after a horrible game: The posts are all still very much projects and Wahab is nowhere near the complete player he needs to be to justify the hype. Really hope that Mutombo is ready to contribute next year. Really liked Pickett's game last night and his effort. Should be there all the time. Blair needs to consider who he is and what he can do and go back to playing within himself on offense. His defense is never going to be a strong point. He can just as easily shoot us out of a game as back into one. Bile is a high energy and undisciplined player who simply has to be better managed by the coach. One careless, out of control play should get him a seat and let him calm down, instead of watching him blow up the offense with TOs and selfish play. Love everything about Harris effort on both ends of the court, but also not a good percentage shooter and this team has been lacking quality shooters for some time. How do they get Carey into the offense without ball movement? In fact why does the ball movement on offense come and go as if it is not within the control of these kids. Make the extra pass. I am a college basketball addict and increasingly cannot get my fix by watching the Hoyas. Kept flipping over to see St. Johns/Butler last night. Calhoya, I totally agree. I thought Dante had good shots and missed them, lost confidence and then forced some passes. Pickett played within himself. Malcolm had moments. Bile and Q needed to see the bench and fast. Bile especially. I’ve never seen anything like that turnover frenzy occasioned by one misguided drive after another, broken up by an undisciplined 3. Creighton seemed to be trying to give us this game, but we couldn’t come close to taking it. Players needed to sit immediately and, if not read the riot act, be left to consider what got them there. The subs would have learned that actions have consequences and meaningful minutes (non-garbage) are available when you practice well, run the offense, and others fail to do that. I thought Berger didn’t look overwhelmed, made a couple of good passes when the defense extended on him. Ewing could have done a better job of sending the right messages with his coaching instead of killing the team in the presser.
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 10, 2021 13:06:51 GMT -5
Also if Ewing did what Chris Beard did he would be called a violent, thug showing hostility and being menacing and threating to the referee. Ewing is well aware that he has to act with class and has to be careful about losing his emotions or temper. Chris Beard can get away with that and he'll be called fiery and passionate, but Ewing can't. Get away with what? Chris Beard sat down on the court twenty feet away from every referee, put his hands up in the T-shape to beg the ref at center court for a technical, got kicked out, and then went over and fist bumped the opposing coach. Then he left. There are displays where coaches get kicked out of a game and do threaten the refs, and this Chris Beard example is not that. He literally staged a sit in on the court for a technical. Two things can be true here - racial double standards exist AND Patrick is perfectly capable of intentionally getting kicked out of a game if he wants to. JT2 used to do that all the time. JT3 did it on occasion.
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Post by practice on Feb 10, 2021 13:15:37 GMT -5
I apologize for my venom toward other posters last night. That game literally drove me to drink. Maybe the worst display of basketball I’ve witnessed from a GU team in my lifetime - I’ve seen pretty much every game dating back to 1987, so that’s a considerable feat. Pat blaming the players is comical. We aren’t very talented, so he doesn’t have the best raw materials. But Pat has now demonstrably proven that he is an abysmal leader on top of being an atrocious game coach and player developer. So exactly what does he do again? At what point is Pat accountable for this hot mess masquerading as basketball? I just hate read about 8 pages of posts while eating my lunch ... after all that I have only one question: DID ANYONE TAKE THE BET FOR $10K THAT CLARK WILL NOT PLAY MORE THAN 10MPG IN THE 2021-22 SEASON? It's a pretty clear proposition. Personally I'd probably go with the under. As I kept reading posts, the wager debate was by far the most entertaining. Please let us know if the bet is on.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 10, 2021 13:16:54 GMT -5
Games like this are frustrating on many levels, not just losing.
Ewing is increasingly coaching like it's the NBA and not the NCAA - the quick timeouts in the beginning of each half that really don't solve anything, the silent assistants on the bench, the green light for shooters to shoot despite time and circumstance (Blair), the seeming disinterest building the reserves with game time. If Jalen Harris was here I'm not sure we'd even be seeing Dante at this point. More to the point, use of the word "they" and not "we" works well in the pros, not so well to 18 and 19 year olds.
Calling out your own team as being "selfish" is something John Thompson, Craig Esherick, or JT III would have never said in public.
Games without fans has spared Ewing much of the grief directed at Esherick in 2003 or JT III in 2016 for their team's waning trajectory, and both of those teams were better than what he has right now. Conversely, it may be insulating the staff as to avoiding how far things continue to fall. A loss Saturday would bring Ewing's Big East record to 25-50 (.333) in 75 games; 12 of the 25 wins have been vs. either Butler, St. John's or DePaul.
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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 10, 2021 13:38:18 GMT -5
Get away with what? Chris Beard sat down on the court twenty feet away from every referee, put his hands up in the T-shape to beg the ref at center court for a technical, got kicked out, and then went over and fist bumped the opposing coach. Then he left. There are displays where coaches get kicked out of a game and do threaten the refs, and this Chris Beard example is not that. He literally staged a sit in on the court for a technical. Two things can be true here - racial double standards exist AND Patrick is perfectly capable of intentionally getting kicked out of a game if he wants to. JT2 used to do that all the time. JT3 did it on occasion. Just one clarification, Beard was re-enacting an earlier play where a player got fouled and signaled for a time out at the same time, the refs called the foul rather then granting the time out. Beard was definitely pining for a Tech with that act overall and Pat could do the same but it would definitely be taken differently by some in the media and out in the world. Another fun fact about Beard's technical, is that it started after Mac got his 4th and 5th fouls within a minute on tickytack calls.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 10, 2021 13:55:55 GMT -5
Also if Ewing did what Chris Beard did he would be called a violent, thug showing hostility and being menacing and threating to the referee. Ewing is well aware that he has to act with class and has to be careful about losing his emotions or temper. Chris Beard can get away with that and he'll be called fiery and passionate, but Ewing can't. Get away with what? Chris Beard sat down on the court twenty feet away from every referee, put his hands up in the T-shape to beg the ref at center court for a technical, got kicked out, and then went over and fist bumped the opposing coach. Then he left. There are displays where coaches get kicked out of a game and do threaten the refs, and this Chris Beard example is not that. He literally staged a sit in on the court for a technical. Two things can be true here - racial double standards exist AND Patrick is perfectly capable of intentionally getting kicked out of a game if he wants to. JT2 used to do that all the time. JT3 did it on occasion. You didn’t even watch the video. I have no problem with him sitting on the floor like a baby
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 10, 2021 14:13:11 GMT -5
You can kind of see why Holloway never sees the floor. Below the rim player that is kind of heavy, slow and not that tall or long. So I have to ask, it stuck in my mind only because it was one of the few posts I've made that got really negative feedback from someone else. hoyatalk2.proboards.com/post/905552What's changed in your opinion since I said the same thing after the Cuse game and you disagreed? This was the first time he played since then. Or are you still long term bullish on Holloway and think he just shouldn't play this year? You're also absolutely allowed to change your opinion, I'm just curious more than anything else. Actually I had no opinion on Holloway at that time other than he’s probably not that good if he can’t see the floor when other freshman are playing. But having seen him play for a couple minutes yesterday it just doesn’t look like he physically has big East level size or athleticism. Not even sure what position he is but look ms too short for power forward and too slow for wing. That’s one thing we as fans can see once we see them in the floor in comparison to others. But if one is privy to practice one could’ve already seen that without playing him. I was never bullish on the guy, if you look at that post it’s trying to figure out what you are saying, not any assessment I have on Holloway. My main point remains however that playing the freshman in games is not suddenly going to make them good. Coach sees them in practice, and If they are good then he plays freshman ( akinjo, Mac, Pickett, le blanc, Dante). So it’s a false narrative. And if they are not playing they probably aren’t good or are not there yet (like Sibley who plays a like but needs to add strength/weight)
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 10, 2021 14:16:41 GMT -5
You know I’m not a fan of Pat the coach, but one thing he does really well is evaluate talent. Based on what? The argument here is that (a) he is a great judge of talent but (b) three out of the five players he recruited last year are not worth developing. Those statements seem at odds with each other.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 10, 2021 14:27:01 GMT -5
I'm not as 'offended' by Ewing calling his team selfish as some. It's an accurate description that, absent a handful of plays, the guys did NOT move / share the ball at all and instead took shots with 2+ guys guarding them, tried to dribble through crowds in the lane, fired up shots as soon as the first pass came to them - all without the awareness to move it to a teammate that was in better position because of the situation the guy with the ball was in. I don't see it as throwing them under the bus - he's describing the way they played and yes, it is extremely frustrating especially after a couple of prior games against the best teams in the league where his team had done exactly the opposite.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Feb 10, 2021 14:37:26 GMT -5
I'm not as 'offended' by Ewing calling his team selfish as some. It's an accurate description that, absent a handful of plays, the guys did NOT move / share the ball at all and instead took shots with 2+ guys guarding them, tried to dribble through crowds in the lane, fired up shots as soon as the first pass came to them - all without the awareness to move it to a teammate that was in better position because of the situation the guy with the ball was in. I don't see it as throwing them under the bus - he's describing the way they played and yes, it is extremely frustrating especially after a couple of prior games against the best teams in the league where his team had done exactly the opposite. Does he bear any responsibility for the way his team played? Should he at least mention that he and his staff were unable to fix these errors in real time?
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Feb 10, 2021 14:40:56 GMT -5
This game was just awful. Early on, the three were open and good shots off of good ball and payer movement. Then, for some reason, our guys didn't even look inside (to pass or drive) and were just stagnant as ever. No movement, just passing and bad threes. And we're lucky they didn't put up 100 because man they had so many looks they usually hit. This game was brutal.
First, our defense wasn't good. I don't care what the numbers say, I thought Creighton had so many open looks they missed. They got easy looks and we didn't rotate much. Pickett was the only one rotating ok defensively and even he missed multiple spots and I don't think played a good game on this end. We got lucky. Creighton should've won by 30. We weren't good on this end.
And offensively oh man. STagnant, stagnant, stagnant, trying to do too much oh man.
Firstly, Bile. Oh man, he was awful. Horrible. Just pathetic. Tried to do too much, forced shots, 6 TO's, terrible defensively in missing rotations, AND getting blown by many times by Jefferson, he was awful. He shouldn't have played half as much as he did. Just an awful performance. He was the best player on the floor the last time we played Creighton and he was by far the worst player on the floor this game.
When Blair isn't scoring well, he's not good. He is awful defensively. Oh man, he left Ballock open so many times and missed tons of help rotations. There isn't much else to say here. Creighton blitzed him every time and nobody flashed to the ball. Just why? And how do you leave Ballock like ever? He lost him not even in help, just by ball watching at least 6 times. Blair is a negative on the defensive end.
Dante had moments of very solid play (like when he split the screens) and moments of just plain awful play (not every full-court pass is open man). He couldn't hit anything today (all were open though) and had some bad TO's. But, with a freshman PG, you take the good with the bad.
Wahab has very slow feet. It's clear. This is something he has to address in the offseason. He's not a complete player yet because he can't switch defensively and unless he's in the lane altering shots, he's not there defensively. He has work to do. Still looks like a solid BE center though, but the way to beat him is obvious.
And I thought Jamorko was ok, making him easily our best player. I think he's solid defensively (not nearly as good as Allen or Mosely were last year, but might be our best defensive option this year, which isn't ideal) and he played within himself. Still chucked far too much, but he had a couple of nice pump fake, one dribble open shot plays. These were probably the highlight of the night.
As for the rest of the freshmen, Sibley has work offensively. He's solid defensively, is in the right spots and looks like a good athlete, but his offensive game has no polish right now. He had a nice drive last night and made a good move into a pull-up jumper, but that jumper looked bad. He needs work in the offseason, but I see a lot of potential here. He can take a jump for sure. COach Crouch has his work cut out, but Sibley has basic tools and needs polish. Clark is pretty much the same, except I haven't seen the jumper to make an assessment and I think he has good vision. I really think Berger can be a player. He's not a much worse defender than Blair right now and he seems to have a good handle of the ball. He's a very high IQ offensive player and he can really shoot it. He's someone I really want around next year and I think fits perfectly next to Aminu. Just need him to upgrade as a ball handler (in confidence and in creating for himself), but again here I see tons of potential. Lastly, I'm not going to give up on him, but I really haven't seen it in Holloway. He looks like a physical big, but he's undersized without a ton of athleticism or bounce. Lots of work here and I don't see a ton of potential yet.
Overall, a disaster and a massive step back. Just an awful game. Come out better Saturday, please.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 10, 2021 14:41:02 GMT -5
I'm not as 'offended' by Ewing calling his team selfish as some. It's an accurate description that, absent a handful of plays, the guys did NOT move / share the ball at all and instead took shots with 2+ guys guarding them, tried to dribble through crowds in the lane, fired up shots as soon as the first pass came to them - all without the awareness to move it to a teammate that was in better position because of the situation the guy with the ball was in. I don't see it as throwing them under the bus - he's describing the way they played and yes, it is extremely frustrating especially after a couple of prior games against the best teams in the league where his team had done exactly the opposite. John Thompson called his teams much worse, except it wasn't in public. The better answers were along the lines of " It wasn't working for us tonight,", " We'll get back to practice and fix it," etc., Yes, it's coach speak but reporters accept it as-is and don't even call coaches out on it anymore. Ewing doesn't have to fall on the sword of " I did not prepare these kids tonight as I should have" or some such platitude, but criticizing the players in public is rarely a motivational tool at the collegiate level.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2021 14:48:46 GMT -5
I'm not as 'offended' by Ewing calling his team selfish as some. It's an accurate description that, absent a handful of plays, the guys did NOT move / share the ball at all and instead took shots with 2+ guys guarding them, tried to dribble through crowds in the lane, fired up shots as soon as the first pass came to them - all without the awareness to move it to a teammate that was in better position because of the situation the guy with the ball was in. I don't see it as throwing them under the bus - he's describing the way they played and yes, it is extremely frustrating especially after a couple of prior games against the best teams in the league where his team had done exactly the opposite. I am not offended either. I just wish that he doesn't criticize the players in front of the media. He should praise them when they win and when they lose, he should just say the other team was better and it wasn't his kid's day.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 10, 2021 14:59:51 GMT -5
Of course the coach and his staff bear responsibility for how their team plays. Some coaches come out and 'fall on their swords' others don't. I don't mark them up or down for either. I also have no problem with a coach saying his team didn't play as well as they should have and why. There are plenty of top flight winning college coaches who are far more direct in criticism of their players than Ewing has been. If we are calling for Ewing to say "it's all my fault" when he and the staff have a specific game plan and the players don't execute it, I don't expect him to say "don't look at them it's all my fault." That's absurd.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 10, 2021 15:01:05 GMT -5
I criticize Big East refs all the time. Refs had zero impact on the outcome of last night’s game. We had zero free throws and they were hacking like crazy. It wouldn’t have changed the outcome of the game but you expect to get own calls in your own home court when they are slapping for the steal. Unfortunately Big East refs never call those. You have to be driving towards the basket to get those from them, and aside from Bile going 1 on 3 in the lane that did not happen last night.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Feb 10, 2021 15:02:24 GMT -5
I'm not as 'offended' by Ewing calling his team selfish as some. It's an accurate description that, absent a handful of plays, the guys did NOT move / share the ball at all and instead took shots with 2+ guys guarding them, tried to dribble through crowds in the lane, fired up shots as soon as the first pass came to them - all without the awareness to move it to a teammate that was in better position because of the situation the guy with the ball was in. I don't see it as throwing them under the bus - he's describing the way they played and yes, it is extremely frustrating especially after a couple of prior games against the best teams in the league where his team had done exactly the opposite. I am not offended either. I just wish that he doesn't criticize the players in front of the media. He should praise them when they win and when they lose, he should just say the other team was better and it wasn't his kid's day. I think at times, like last night it's very fair. But, he also has to take some responsibility when it goes wrong. You can give your honest take, but also you have to take some responsibility and acknowledge your shortcomings, since there isn't a coach anywhere who's perfect.
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