Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 3, 2020 20:21:07 GMT -5
The selective feeder schools are finding it harder to place as many students at Georgetown as in the old days.
|
|
Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 15, 2020 9:02:18 GMT -5
On a slightly different note, I had my first candidate receive acceptance to the university. I have conducted alumni interviews for five cycles over ten years. It was nice to finally hear from a student that was admitted and overjoyed.
|
|
tgo
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 799
|
Post by tgo on Dec 15, 2020 13:42:25 GMT -5
On a slightly different note, I had my first candidate receive acceptance to the university. I have conducted alumni interviews for five cycles over ten years. It was nice to finally hear from a student that was admitted and overjoyed. Congrats. I went 8 or 9 years at one point without any of mine getting in. During that dry spell I had one I remember in particular. In 21 years of interviewing I have given out fewer than five 9 ratings and this was one of them. I described this young man as being incredibly similar to myself with the exception that they were more accomplished, more mature and better prepared to take advantage of all that Georgetown had to offer than I was as a senior in high school. Felt like a personal rebuke.
|
|
hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,201
|
Post by hoya9797 on Dec 15, 2020 13:53:09 GMT -5
On a slightly different note, I had my first candidate receive acceptance to the university. I have conducted alumni interviews for five cycles over ten years. It was nice to finally hear from a student that was admitted and overjoyed. Congrats. I went 8 or 9 years at one point without any of mine getting in. During that dry spell I had one I remember in particular. In 21 years of interviewing I have given out fewer than five 9 ratings and this was one of them. I described this young man as being incredibly similar to myself with the exception that they were more accomplished, more mature and better prepared to take advantage of all that Georgetown had to offer than I was as a senior in high school. Felt like a personal rebuke. I sometimes wonder if the admin ever took note of the buffoonery on campus and decided not to admit more of that. I’m glad I went to the Georgetown I did.
|
|
|
Post by LizziebethHoya on Dec 15, 2020 18:46:46 GMT -5
I've been an interviewer for 10+ years and I can only remember 2 students who received offers of admission.
|
|
Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,480
|
Post by Elvado on Dec 16, 2020 5:16:53 GMT -5
I have interviewed for several years and have had only a couple of kids get in. Neither was particularly impressive or had a compelling story to tell.
The only top recommendation I ever gave was a brilliant young lady whose high school resume was stellar.
She got wait listed and when I wrote her the suggested note of encouragement, replied very nicely, “thanks but I’ll be going to Stanford”
What I know about admissions is that I know nothing about admissions.
|
|
Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 16, 2020 5:41:31 GMT -5
The top-3 candidates I have interviewed were all waitlisted. They ended up going to Stanford, Columbia and the Naval Academy.
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,262
|
Post by SSHoya on Dec 16, 2020 6:11:35 GMT -5
I interviewed for several years and had exactly ZERO students admitted or wait-listed. . .
|
|
|
Post by flyoverhoya on Dec 16, 2020 12:10:33 GMT -5
I have interviewed for several years and have had only a couple of kids get in. Neither was particularly impressive or had a compelling story to tell. The only top recommendation I ever gave was a brilliant young lady whose high school resume was stellar. She got wait listed and when I wrote her the suggested note of encouragement, replied very nicely, “thanks but I’ll be going to Stanford” What I know about admissions is that I know nothing about admissions. Nobody does. Having seen it from undergrad work study days through 25 years of AAP interviewing, it's a crapshoot. Only difference is that it's now a much more selective crapshoot. It's not just GU. My oldest went through the college application process last year, and there's no discernable rhyme or reason to where she did/didn't get in, where she got waitlisted, etc...
|
|
Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,427
|
Post by Nevada Hoya on Dec 16, 2020 14:03:06 GMT -5
I have been interviewing for about 37 years, and I have gotten my fair share of admits (that means about 10%), although I could not figure out how admissions works. I have never given a 9 and maybe 5-10 8's. Of those 5-10, maybe two have gotten in. I had one acceptance last year and of the two EA students this year, both were deferred. We used to get the grades and SAT scores, so that gave some indication of whether they would get accepted. They do not do that now.
|
|
Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,641
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 16, 2020 22:16:27 GMT -5
I typically ask for a CV prior to my interview, if the student doesn’t send me one on his own. The CV may contain grades and board scores. I don’t ask for them specifically at the interview though.
|
|
|
Post by flyoverhoya on Dec 17, 2020 13:20:33 GMT -5
I like the fact that GPAs and standardized test scores are no longer reported - I think providing that information colored interviewers' reports, and the interview rating is (I've always thought) one of the few things in the process that isn't supposed to be based on the applicant's "numbers."
|
|
tgo
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 799
|
Post by tgo on Dec 17, 2020 18:45:13 GMT -5
I like the fact that GPAs and standardized test scores are no longer reported - I think providing that information colored interviewers' reports, and the interview rating is (I've always thought) one of the few things in the process that isn't supposed to be based on the applicant's "numbers." Agree completely. I tell the student in my intro when we meet that "I don't know your grades or scores and I don't care, there are plenty of people evaluating them already, that is not my role in this process." I do tell them that if they have something they need to "explain" then this is the one time to do so. For instance, your dog died the day before finals sophomore year, tell me about how that is a blip on your academic record that should be taken in to account when looking at the big picture.
|
|
RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,597
|
Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 18, 2020 0:03:59 GMT -5
I have interviewed for several years and have had only a couple of kids get in. Neither was particularly impressive or had a compelling story to tell. The only top recommendation I ever gave was a brilliant young lady whose high school resume was stellar. She got wait listed and when I wrote her the suggested note of encouragement, replied very nicely, “thanks but I’ll be going to Stanford” What I know about admissions is that I know nothing about admissions. Nobody does. Having seen it from undergrad work study days through 25 years of AAP interviewing, it's a crapshoot. Only difference is that it's now a much more selective crapshoot. It's not just GU. My oldest went through the college application process last year, and there's no discernable rhyme or reason to where she did/didn't get in, where she got waitlisted, etc... I mean, some of us do... Jack moreso than me, since he was a full-fledged admissions officer for a couple years, while I was the low man on the totem pole for a year and a half. But I can promise y'all that there is a method to the madness, it's just one that's very difficult to piece together without having the broader context that is not publicly accessible. I've been putting off responding to this thread, but I will weigh in before too long here...
|
|
RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,597
|
Post by RusskyHoya on Dec 29, 2020 0:29:38 GMT -5
Alright, so I think right off the bat, there's a major challenge here in that there's really two different questions at hand that are being collapsed into one. The first is a practical/instrumental question: given the universe of evaluation tools at their disposal to measure applicant quality, how fair and/or equitable are standardized tests, relative to other tools? This is a more factual question, and we have research we can consult. Some findings conflict, but the more recent studies tend to align: standardized tests favor those of higher socioeconomic status, but they favor them *less* than do other 'objective' or quantitative measures like grades, number of advanced courses, and class rank. Not only do more advantaged students in more advantaged schools have a leg up across the board, but there is growing evidence that those schools are engaging in grade inflation at a faster rate than disadvantaged schools, owing to pressure from college-bound students and their parents. Outside of quantitative criteria, essays are very easy to game and interviews are subject to a considerable risk of bias. Some relevant evidence follows. From California: edsource.org/2020/research-tells-us-standardized-admissions-tests-benefit-under-represented-students/628611From Georgia: www.ozy.com/news-and-politics/college-admissions-minus-the-tests-does-not-add-up-to-diversity/88721/In other words, the actual facts on the ground are more complicated and counterintuitive than a simplistic "the test is biased because some groups perform better than others" analysis would lead you to believe. Smart as they are, even SFS students have a tendency to forget that they're not the first people to be analyzing a particular topic - some people, including admissions professionals, have been scrutinizing this exact question for decades. ---- As I said at the beginning, the challenge is that there is a second question wrapped up in here that is less fact-based and more philosophical/ethical: should universities (particularly those subsidized with public funds, which is to say, most of them) trying to be selective and elite in the first place? Given the inequalities in our society, it's hard to imagine any workable admissions system that selects for academic aptitude and yet does not end with an non-representative cohort of students. Elite institutions - college and otherwise - by their very nature are going to propagate stratification and inequality, to one degree or another. For some, that is reason enough to declare the whole enterprise rotten and best done away with, e.g., Others, including our esteemed host, do not agree:
|
|
|
Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 29, 2020 8:34:14 GMT -5
Great post. Thanks for the insightful information.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,736
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 29, 2020 17:36:51 GMT -5
Others, including our esteemed host, do not agree. I'm no math major, but a central premise in random number theory is that random numbers, by their nature, are not truly random. They rely on an algorithm to generate the numbers and that very practice can get you into trouble (as the world of cryptography knows well). Some of the various theories on this would be subject to intense scrutiny, such as.. 1. Randomly select a class based on all applicants . This could lead to a class that is disproportionately white, West Coast, male, etc. if the total sum of applicants trended that way. A random sample could also reduce the skill set of the application pool--a 3.0 kid from Tuscaloosa Northridge HS has the same "chance" as that 4.0 kid from Bronx Collegiate. It would also be a mess if 1200 of the 1600 accepted freshmen at Princeton all wanted to study engineering, putting hundreds of liberal arts professors into apoplexy and/or the rush to find the extra professors needed to teach 35 sections of Materials of Civil Engineering. 2. Randomly select a class based on national demographics . Cue the lawsuits when Harvard restricts enrollment to no more than 5% of the lottery for Asians; or that no more than 2.68% of the class can come from the state of New Jersey. Do the Lori Laughlins of the world suddenly establish residency in South Dakota to get a better chance for one of SD's five seats (out of 1600) rather than compete with a hundred thousand kids for California's 190 seats? 3. Randomly select a class based on social engineering . Again, cue the lawsuits when Cornell accepts a flat 20% of Hispanics in a lottery when the proportionate number of Hispanics in the pool is fewer than those applying in the Asian, Black, White, etc. pools. A random model also assumes all those selected would enroll. What if they don't? Does Brown then have to rerun the numbers to find someone who fits the white female from Oklahoma category? And not so innocently, what if the lottery selections are not able or willing to pay? H-Y-P can live with it, the others might not. Try as the socially aware, mostly liberal gentry would lead you to think otherwise, admissions officers apply the human touch and do it for the right reasons. Unless someone argues Harvard and the Ivies should simply open their doors (ask CCNY how that turned out), not everyone can go to where they perceive they want to go.
|
|
RusskyHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
In Soviet Russia, Hoya Blue Bleeds You!
Posts: 4,597
|
Post by RusskyHoya on Jan 7, 2024 15:33:46 GMT -5
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,262
|
Post by SSHoya on Jan 7, 2024 16:44:54 GMT -5
Asian students score the highest and it's not particularly close. But you often see Asian and Pacific Islanders combined (AAPI) for statistical purposes which would lower the average score to roughly equivalent to White student scores. Asian 1229 Black 926 Hispanic 964 Pacific Islander 945 White 1098 Two or more races 1102 nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171The Hispanic number is 964. --Admin
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,262
|
Post by SSHoya on Jan 7, 2024 17:07:55 GMT -5
Asian students score the highest and it's not particularly close. But you often see Asian and Pacific Islanders combined (AAPI) for statistical purposes which would lower the average score. Asian 1229 Black 926 Hispanic 964 Pacific Islander 945 White 1098 Two or more races 1102 nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=171The Hispanic number is 964. --AdminThx. Made correction. My copy/paste/edit skills deficient!
|
|