iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,402
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Post by iowa80 on Dec 2, 2020 19:35:01 GMT -5
Trap / hangover game for WVU after playing #1 Gonzaga?! We can only hope... WVU is hanging in there so far, but no one wants to face the dreaded Jesuit back-to-back.
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,035
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 2, 2020 20:07:30 GMT -5
Let’s go COVID!
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Post by RockawayHoya on Dec 2, 2020 20:11:01 GMT -5
Minutes at the backup 5. When refusing to explain why Wilson, who outperformed Tim in limited time, could find any time on the floor against Navy vs. Tim's 11 largely ineffective minutes, Ewing's reply of "that's just how I feel" won't cut it. Being raw and unpolished is great when you have the ability to refine, but at some point that just shifts to developmentally delayed and non-contributor. Having played basketball for longer shouldn't be a negative; let's see if Malcom can build off of an encouraging performance against UMBC and see if we can get his confidence level up. . This is that old chestnut that the guy/bench QB who isn't playing is a HOF. Never fails. There's an appeal to this because if you play little you can do nothing wrong. I remember when Mourning was on the bench, you heard the same thing about how unstoppable he is and why isn't he playing. And then when he started playing, it was a 180 and how horrible he is. You can even see it with Q. Last year, Yurt7 was horrible and Q had nothing but praise heaped on him. but with Q starting this year, he's getting battered with comments just like Yurt7 was. But this is all based on the data we have which is limited to what we see in games whereas the coaching staff have 5 times the data based on what they see in practice. I agree that Q's been hit with the same kind of comments that Yurt was last year. But at some point, doesn't that fall on the staff to successfully teach their bigs how to play aggressive without fouling? From Govan to Yurt to now Q, they've been the one constant. The out-of-control charges. The stupid moving picks way out from the basket. Biting on pump fakes, especially from guys who aren't really perimeter threats. All correctable mistakes. All have yet to be corrected. I missed the part where people ever thought Trey Mourning was unstoppable and should be playing more. Especially under Ewing. He was never ever close to Govan's caliber and also stole minutes that should've gone to Josh, who was way better than him even as a frosh. And I also agree that backup C minutes are not what are going to make or break this team. Wilson is unlikely to all of a sudden change outcomes of games by himself. But Tim's been brutal in 2 games now and we don't have the benefit of 5-6 cupcakes to figure out if the light's going to go on for him before conference play begins. If the staff has 5x the data we have (and really, they now have 3+ years of data to go off of), we need to see better than what we are getting out of them in terms of preparation, game-planning, and in-game adjustments.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 2, 2020 23:31:07 GMT -5
I saw a little bit of the West Virginia/Gonzaga game, and unless our guys step it up a LOT it's going to be a very long night. We just aren't at the same level of either of those teams.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 3, 2020 0:14:51 GMT -5
I saw a little bit of the West Virginia/Gonzaga game, and unless our guys step it up a LOT it's going to be a very long night. We just aren't at the same level of either of those teams. Thats like saying we arent at the level of Lebron Lakers. Gonzaga would have easily destroyed West Virginia but there best player went down with what looked like a season ending injury and they stopped playing for a while.
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Post by homeonthehilltop on Dec 3, 2020 6:56:01 GMT -5
Remember when we beat Illinois on the road just two years ago? My have the programs deviated since then. That, unfortunately, may be the peak of our program for quite a long time.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,508
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Post by bostonfan on Dec 3, 2020 8:34:11 GMT -5
I saw a little bit of the West Virginia/Gonzaga game, and unless our guys step it up a LOT it's going to be a very long night. We just aren't at the same level of either of those teams. West Virginia is a really good team. Athletic, aggressive, good length, well coached and they play very aggressive defense. The Hoya's will need to play much better or this one could get out of hand quickly. I hope the Navy game was a wake up cal and the guys are ready to step it up, because the competition is going to get much tougher, and soon.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 3, 2020 8:39:44 GMT -5
I saw a little bit of the West Virginia/Gonzaga game, and unless our guys step it up a LOT it's going to be a very long night. We just aren't at the same level of either of those teams. West Virginia is a really good team. Athletic, aggressive, good length, well coached and they play very aggressive defense. The Hoya's will need to play much better or this one could get out of hand quickly. I hope the Navy game was a wake up cal and the guys are ready to step it up, because the competition is going to get much tougher, and soon. WV is just the teams Huggins always has. Husky and athletic and hard nosed.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,356
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Post by prhoya on Dec 3, 2020 8:41:04 GMT -5
I saw a little bit of the West Virginia/Gonzaga game, and unless our guys step it up a LOT it's going to be a very long night. We just aren't at the same level of either of those teams. West Virginia is a really good team. Athletic, aggressive, good length, well coached and they play very aggressive defense. The Hoya's will need to play much better or this one could get out of hand quickly. I hope the Navy game was a wake up cal and the guys are ready to step it up, because the competition is going to get much tougher, and soon. I hope vs WVU we follow the pattern under Ewing of playing to the opposition’s level. Blowouts one way or the other have been few and far between. Let’s hope we’re not the wrong end of a blowout.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 3, 2020 9:03:17 GMT -5
West Virginia is a really good team. Athletic, aggressive, good length, well coached and they play very aggressive defense. The Hoya's will need to play much better or this one could get out of hand quickly. I hope the Navy game was a wake up cal and the guys are ready to step it up, because the competition is going to get much tougher, and soon. I hope vs WVU we follow the pattern under Ewing of playing to the opposition’s level. Blowouts one way or the other have been few and far between. Let’s hope we’re not the wrong end of a blowout. I don't think it's possible. Last year we could stay in ever game (even with the short roster and no wings) because we had elite (for college) level guards in (Terrell Allen, 4th Year Jagan and McLung) with Blair as the 4th guard/backup. That can keep you in every game. This year I don't even know if we have one guard that we can count on consistently. Without that guard play it makes it hard for the bigs or wings to do anything against a top 20 team. Maybe someone will develop or surprise, as these guys are still pretty much unknown.
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,329
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Post by vv83 on Dec 3, 2020 9:03:55 GMT -5
West Virginia is a really good team. Athletic, aggressive, good length, well coached and they play very aggressive defense. The Hoya's will need to play much better or this one could get out of hand quickly. I hope the Navy game was a wake up cal and the guys are ready to step it up, because the competition is going to get much tougher, and soon. I hope vs WVU we follow the pattern under Ewing of playing to the opposition’s level. Blowouts one way or the other have been few and far between. Let’s hope we’re not the wrong end of a blowout. Even if we do "play to the level of the competition" against WVU - they are so much better than us (both talent and coaching) that we'll lose by double digits. And if we play the way we did against Navy - a 30+ point loss is definitely on the table. I think our only chance to avoid a blowout in this game is if WVU used up a lot of emotion playing very well against the #1 team in the nation yesterday. Moving from that environment to a small, sleepy gym against a team they know they should destroy could lead to a flat effort. If we come out fully focused and energized, and they come out flat - we may be able to hang with them for a half or so. But then they'll likely wake up and pull away. If WVU comes in with the level of focus/energy they brought against Gonzaga - it will be very ugly. One interesting aspect of this game - WVU has a couple of high level recruits right now, which is not always the norm for them. most of his teams are usually made up of the same level of players that we generally recruit. The difference - Huggins knows exactly what he needs in a player to win with his system; he knows how to teach/develop players; and he recruits for and teaches high level intensity/effort. His teams win by outworking other teams and by being more physical. His guys also have skill - although they are not a good shooting team. But their winning qualities are physicality and effort, usually manifested most strongly through their defense/rebounding. I think Ewing would like to have a similar ethic for the Hoyas, but he has not been able to achieve it yet through either recruiting or coaching. It is a good plan for a school that is not going to be able to recruit a ton of 4/5 star talents. But it depends on the coaching staff to find the right players to fit the culture/system and coach them up on both maintaining constant effort/focus, and on the skill areas that the players need help with. Huggins has built a hall of fame career doing this. Ewing could learn a lot by studying how Huggins has done things over the years. Not necessarily stylistically, but in terms of how to build a sustained winning program with a mix of 3/4 star talents that win through effort and development.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 3, 2020 9:13:56 GMT -5
I hope vs WVU we follow the pattern under Ewing of playing to the opposition’s level. Blowouts one way or the other have been few and far between. Let’s hope we’re not the wrong end of a blowout. Even if we do "play to the level of the competition" against WVU - they are so much better than us (both talent and coaching) that we'll lose by double digits. And if we play the way we did against Navy - a 30+ point loss is definitely on the table. I think our only chance to avoid a blowout in this game is if WVU used up a lot of emotion playing very well against the #1 team in the nation yesterday. Moving from that environment to a small, sleepy gym against a team they know they should destroy could lead to a flat effort. If we come out fully focused and energized, and they come out flat - we may be able to hang with them for a half or so. But then they'll likely wake up and pull away. If WVU comes in with the level of focus/energy they brought against Gonzaga - it will be very ugly. One interesting aspect of this game - WVU has a couple of high level recruits right now, which is not always the norm for them. most of his teams are usually made up of the same level of players that we generally recruit. The difference - Huggins knows exactly what he needs in a player to win with his system; he knows how to teach/develop players; and he recruits for and teaches high level intensity/effort. His teams win by outworking other teams and by being more physical. His guys also have skill - although they are not a good shooting team. But their winning qualities are physicality and effort, usually manifested most strongly through their defense/rebounding. I think Ewing would like to have a similar ethic for the Hoyas, but he has not been able to achieve it yet through either recruiting or coaching. It is a good plan for a school that is not going to be able to recruit a ton of 4/5 star talents. But it depends on the coaching staff to find the right players to fit the culture/system and coach them up on both maintaining constant effort/focus, and on the skill areas that the players need help with. Huggins has built a hall of fame career doing this. Ewing could learn a lot by studying how Huggins has done things over the years. Not necessarily stylistically, but in terms of how to build a sustained winning program with a mix of 3/4 star talents that win through effort and development. I think the only way it stays close is if Huggy Bear rests his starters/limits their minutes too much and lets his reserves and social media star Jordan McCabe get alot of PT. If he does that then maybe we can steal the game. He's not a bad player but he's kind of at the level that our guards are at right now so we would be able to keep up with them.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,508
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Post by bostonfan on Dec 3, 2020 9:58:04 GMT -5
I hope vs WVU we follow the pattern under Ewing of playing to the opposition’s level. Blowouts one way or the other have been few and far between. Let’s hope we’re not the wrong end of a blowout. I don't think it's possible. Last year we could stay in ever game (even with the short roster and no wings) because we had elite (for college) level guards in (Terrell Allen, 4th Year Jagan and McLung) with Blair as the 4th guard/backup. That can keep you in every game. This year I don't even know if we have one guard that we can count on consistently. Without that guard play it makes it hard for the bigs or wings to do anything against a top 20 team. Maybe someone will develop or surprise, as these guys are still pretty much unknown. Guard play will be a big deal against WV in the next game. They actually match up really well against our big guys and probably have two guys who are as big, and more talented, than our post players. It will not be a game were they can just throw it down to Q and hope he can score over smaller/interior post players. Guards are going to have to take care of the ball and make shots. Blair and Carey will need to play really well against some talented players.
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DudeSlade
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I got through the Esherick years. I can get through anything.
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Post by DudeSlade on Dec 3, 2020 11:33:42 GMT -5
Can you imagine the ending of that game being dissected today with 5-10 minutes review of countless angles and the refs likely still not getting the call right? Everyone remembers the last block, but I'm glad that highlight showed the absolute stones Sapp had. Would kill for a kid like him right now. My dislike for what passes for WVU fans was enhanced by some of the post- game comments that I recall. And yes on Jesse. I wonder what option he was at the beginning of the play. I love this throwback iowa80!!! Thank you for sharing the good stuff. That team, those players, the feel around the program, loved it all back then. Of all the teams we played in the old Big East, West Virginia had the absolute worst fans I've ever encountered, ever, anywhere, period, end of conversation. Every single year they were just plain horrid towards us as students and fans from before the game to the end, regardless of what was happening on the floor. And it wasn't student-aged people either. It was these middle-aged fans who came to the Verizon Center to just get up in our grill from the start. We laughed it off as them playing to a stereotype, but in retrospect it painted that whole university and team in an absolutely awful light. I would love for us to beat them one more time.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
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Post by hoyazeke on Dec 3, 2020 12:18:48 GMT -5
This is that old chestnut that the guy/bench QB who isn't playing is a HOF. Never fails. There's an appeal to this because if you play little you can do nothing wrong. I remember when Mourning was on the bench, you heard the same thing about how unstoppable he is and why isn't he playing. And then when he started playing, it was a 180 and how horrible he is. You can even see it with Q. Last year, Yurt7 was horrible and Q had nothing but praise heaped on him. but with Q starting this year, he's getting battered with comments just like Yurt7 was. But this is all based on the data we have which is limited to what we see in games whereas the coaching staff have 5 times the data based on what they see in practice. I agree that Q's been hit with the same kind of comments that Yurt was last year. But at some point, doesn't that fall on the staff to successfully teach their bigs how to play aggressive without fouling? From Govan to Yurt to now Q, they've been the one constant. The out-of-control charges. The stupid moving picks way out from the basket. Biting on pump fakes, especially from guys who aren't really perimeter threats. All correctable mistakes. All have yet to be corrected. I missed the part where people ever thought Trey Mourning was unstoppable and should be playing more. Especially under Ewing. He was never ever close to Govan's caliber and also stole minutes that should've gone to Josh, who was way better than him even as a frosh. And I also agree that backup C minutes are not what are going to make or break this team. Wilson is unlikely to all of a sudden change outcomes of games by himself. But Tim's been brutal in 2 games now and we don't have the benefit of 5-6 cupcakes to figure out if the light's going to go on for him before conference play begins. If the staff has 5x the data we have (and really, they now have 3+ years of data to go off of), we need to see better than what we are getting out of them in terms of preparation, game-planning, and in-game adjustments. No one ever said that Trey was unstoppable but he was playing well pre-concussion. I had this argument 2yrs ago. It takes a lot longer than most know to get back to your normal skill level after a concussion.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
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Post by hoyazeke on Dec 3, 2020 12:48:21 GMT -5
I hope vs WVU we follow the pattern under Ewing of playing to the opposition’s level. Blowouts one way or the other have been few and far between. Let’s hope we’re not the wrong end of a blowout. I don't think it's possible. Last year we could stay in ever game (even with the short roster and no wings) because we had elite (for college) level guards in (Terrell Allen, 4th Year Jagan and McLung) with Blair as the 4th guard/backup. That can keep you in every game. This year I don't even know if we have one guard that we can count on consistently. Without that guard play it makes it hard for the bigs or wings to do anything against a top 20 team. Maybe someone will develop or surprise, as these guys are still pretty much unknown. Professor this is spot on. On the college level you have to have good/elite guard play to compete. I really was hoping we could good guard play from 1 of the Harris' and elite level play from Morko and Q. So far it hasn't happened from either position.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
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Post by hoyazeke on Dec 3, 2020 12:51:08 GMT -5
I don't think it's possible. Last year we could stay in ever game (even with the short roster and no wings) because we had elite (for college) level guards in (Terrell Allen, 4th Year Jagan and McLung) with Blair as the 4th guard/backup. That can keep you in every game. This year I don't even know if we have one guard that we can count on consistently. Without that guard play it makes it hard for the bigs or wings to do anything against a top 20 team. Maybe someone will develop or surprise, as these guys are still pretty much unknown. Guard play will be a big deal against WV in the next game. They actually match up really well against our big guys and probably have two guys who are as big, and more talented, than our post players. It will not be a game were they can just throw it down to Q and hope he can score over smaller/interior post players. Guards are going to have to take care of the ball and make shots. Blair and Carey will need to play really well against some talented players. Hopefully it's a game where the refs don't call questionable fouls against Q. Q has the talent to play with Oscar. Lets hope he steps up to the challenge.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 3, 2020 13:01:11 GMT -5
My dislike for what passes for WVU fans was enhanced by some of the post- game comments that I recall. And yes on Jesse. I wonder what option he was at the beginning of the play. I love this throwback iowa80!!! Thank you for sharing the good stuff. That team, those players, the feel around the program, loved it all back then. Of all the teams we played in the old Big East, West Virginia had the absolute worst fans I've ever encountered, ever, anywhere, period, end of conversation. Every single year they were just plain horrid towards us as students and fans from before the game to the end, regardless of what was happening on the floor. And it wasn't student-aged people either. It was these middle-aged fans who came to the Verizon Center to just get up in our grill from the start. We laughed it off as them playing to a stereotype, but in retrospect it painted that whole university and team in an absolutely awful light. I would love for us to beat them one more time. They were absolutely terrible at the 2010 Big East final too. I was there, and their fans were intensely annoying. Wow, I cannot believe that was more than 10 years ago.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,207
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Post by hoya9797 on Dec 3, 2020 14:42:55 GMT -5
Remember when we beat Illinois on the road just two years ago? My have the programs deviated since then. That, unfortunately, may be the peak of our program for quite a long time. Do people like you truly believe the things you say or do you just purely enjoy being negative? Have you always gone for the low hanging fruit? Because using that logic no team ever gets better and no team ever gets worse. We can get a lot better from where we are today and still not match where we were when we beat Illinois a couple years ago.
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McBricks
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
What Rocks.
Posts: 1,173
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Post by McBricks on Dec 3, 2020 16:00:19 GMT -5
Here's a story. Me, SFHoya99, SFOHoya, and Cambridge did a road trip in 2007 where we started in Louisville and saw the Hoyas beat the Cardinals on the inaugural night of Denny Crum Court. We then drove to DC for the Marquette and WVU games at Verizon. During the drive, we stopped at multiple locations of interest including Georgetown College in Kentucky and Morgantown, WV. While in Morgantown, we drove to the Coliseum and were amazed that the doors were open. So we wandered around inside. We had a blue & Gray pom-pom and we hid part of it in section 55 behind the hoop to honor Hibbert. Our "hex" on WVU started February 9th, 2007 and it continues today. Thus, I see the Hoyas squeaking out a W Sunday. Yes, I am living in the past. 2008
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