MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 28, 2020 9:34:36 GMT -5
Yo, this is the Big Bad Big East that Hoya fans here and on twitter have been fretting about these past six months? A conference in which THESE GUYS are the ones predicted to be the elite of the league? What do we have here? A serial transfer guard under 6 feet tall in Charlie Moore who averaged under 14 points per game while shooting 37% from the floor. Mamukelashvili is a 6'11 big man who if truly elite would be getting ready to be drafted by the NBA based upon his three-point shooting percentage and height. But he is back in school for his senior season because his win share of 2.3 for his junior season and his 11 points per game average tells the story of his limitations. By comparison despite being a subpar defender, Jessie Govan accumulated a 4.4 win share average for his junior year. Paul Scruggs is a very solid player but he didn’t improve much at all between his supposed breakout soph season and his junior season. Has he plateaued? Nate Watson? This guy’s minutes WENT DOWN from his sophomore season. Last year as a junior he still failed to crack double figures as a scoring average. Also last season almost all of his key stats went down after entering Big East play. As an upperclassman big who does not shoot threes or long jumpers he had an unimpressive fg percentage of .511 and he got to even that so-so number thanks to his offensive rebounding most likely. He’s solid but did the BE run out of names to have him predicted to make Second Team? A few of these guys didn’t average ten points per contest last season despite being Pre-Season All Big East selections for this upcoming year. Obviously scoring isn’t the only part of the game but nonetheless the resumes of some of them aren’t that impressive. When it comes to upside and just sheer number of representation, Villanova has the edge. That said Collin Gillespie, in my opinion, is a guy whose effectiveness is more the result of the system he plays in and the players surrounding him. As a fan of an opposing team he is not the type of player that scares me. And that’s my view of looking at it in general. Hardly any of these guys scare me and only one team, Villanova, is one that I look at with a huge talent advantage. Yeah, one could push back that the Hoyas don’t have anyone that as of right now are keeping opposing coaches up at night, but that is well documented and represented by their lack of representation on any of these lists and the judgment by the coaches that the team will finish last. That said what I do know of is that down the stretch these Hoyas with roughly six scholarship players were highly competitive with these teams and within distance of pulling off upsets even after ceding large early leads in some of the games. The two of those players that aren’t returning (Jagan and Terrell) will be missed but are not the type of players who put up the type of numbers that are hard to replace. Of course the two upperclassmen of the Hoyas that are returning (Pickett and Blair) should be viewed with at least as much skepticism as some of the players on other teams I dogged above. That said I think the odds of them having just as good as season as those other guys are not all that worse. And this time they and Qudus and Tim will have more than just two (or four when Mac and Omer were still playing) other scholarship players to help them out. They will have nine. If one or two newcomers can match or surpass Terrell’s output, if a frosh or two other than Sibley surprises at the very least in readiness for BE play, if any of the returning players take a major step forward, this team should be able to be a solid, middle-of-the-pack team. We’ll definitely have an advantage in size and on the boards.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 28, 2020 9:36:29 GMT -5
Sad when UCONN hops back into the league and predicted to be in top 5 and Hoyas last. Not expecting much this season but there has to be a step forward. Last year may have been 1 of the worst in my 30+ years of Hoya fandom to go through, even with a victory over the Cuse which accounts for alot! Some stability with the roster and smart coaching moves in-game is what I'm looking for. I hear you when it comes to stability but you actually believe you saw zero smart in-game coaching moves from Ewing?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 28, 2020 9:44:58 GMT -5
We are getting the respect our program deserves based upon results over the near term.
We don’t have to like it but this is who we are.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 28, 2020 9:51:20 GMT -5
That is one way of looking at it; I am taking the glass half full viewpoint here. Why be so negative? I say have fun with it. GAME TIME WHOOT. You'd be a great Hoya football fan, where the glass is always no more than half-full. (Because they pour it that way.) Last place is not half-full, that's 5th place. Last place is a message from your fellow coaches that you aren't good at all. And continued poor finishes and fading recognition like this only corrode the institutional support of this program until it gets to a point where the University simply won't spend $17 million on it any more and will find other places in the University to invest in. The University has no obligation to fund this program in the top 20 nationally if it continues to struggle. DFW, as always we appreciate your burning-roof take on the program but considering you didn't feel the team would finish above ten what difference does it make if the opposing coaches think the team will finish 11th? You act as if its a sign of disrespect towards Ewing but just perhaps that is merely a case of you projecting. Perhaps those coaches realize the team has only three guys who got any real run last season and none of those three finished on any all Big East teams. Coaches usually base their evaluations of a team upon who they have returning, the number of guys they have returning and the big time recruits they are brining in. Pickett and Blair haven't been consistent or efficient enough for other coaches to give two hecks about, those same coaches have samples and thereby impressions of only four players overall of the team, and none of the Hoya recruits come in with the type of rep to probably make All BE Freshmen predictions. But I am absolutely certain if things had gone as planned and Akinjo, LeBlanc and McClung had stayed/returned, those Hoyas and therefore Ewing would have gotten all the "respect" in the world from Big East coaches going into this preseason. And stop acting as if the university is being held hostage by bad decisions and coaching since its the university that has hired the personnel to handle those issues in the first place. Besides you don't have to look any further than DePaul as a school/program that had been in a worse spiral for far longer than Georgetown and yet they are still around and may be on the verge of a comeback. I mean you yourself can't stop yourself from gushing over the four star recruits they are bringing in.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 28, 2020 9:53:14 GMT -5
This is pathetic. What will be even more pathetic if we “outperform” by finishing 9th or 10th, all the praise for Ewing and the great job he’s doing. He should be fired now but he’ll probably end up with a lifetime contract. This post is pathetic but unfortunately mirrors the mindset of HT fandom.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 28, 2020 10:06:04 GMT -5
DFW, as always we appreciate your burning-roof take on the program but considering you didn't feel the team would finish above ten what difference does it make if the opposing coaches think the team will finish 11th? You act as if its a sign of disrespect towards Ewing but just perhaps that is merely a case of you projecting. Excuse me, but you are projecting. An 11th place poll is a reflection not on Ewing as a coach (and no one credible says he cannot coach), but a team that has slid right to the bottom of the list over his tenure, that has regularly underperformed in the Big East, and has the largest single year turnover of players on a GU roster in 70 years. But what is really says is that they don't see this team moving up. If Georgetown was as good as it could be, you don't sit them behind DePaul, arguably the worst Big East entrant since Miami. Marquette lost a ton and they're not picked last. And stop acting as if the university is being held hostage by bad decisions and coaching since its the university that has hired the personnel to handle those issues in the first place. Besides you don't have to look any further than DePaul as a school/program that had been in a worse spiral for far longer than Georgetown and yet they are still around and may be on the verge of a comeback. I mean you yourself can't stop yourself from gushing over the four star recruits they are bringing in. I'll save the gushing for Jordan Riley, thank you very much. And as for personnel, that's GU's call 110%, but how many teams sitting where Georgetown is haven't made a single change to the staff in four years? If Ewing can do no better than with Orr, Kirby, and Waheed, good for him. The results on and off the court remain underperforming for a program that Georgetown once was, and aspires to be again.
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DudeSlade
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I got through the Esherick years. I can get through anything.
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Post by DudeSlade on Oct 28, 2020 10:15:57 GMT -5
Yo, this is the Big Bad Big East that Hoya fans here and on twitter have been fretting about these past six months? A conference in which THESE GUYS are the ones predicted to be the elite of the league? What do we have here? A serial transfer guard under 6 feet tall in Charlie Moore who averaged under 14 points per game while shooting 37% from the floor. Mamukelashvili is a 6'11 big man who if truly elite would be getting ready to be drafted by the NBA based upon his three-point shooting percentage and height. But he is back in school for his senior season because his win share of 2.3 for his junior season and his 11 points per game average tells the story of his limitations. By comparison despite being a subpar defender, Jessie Govan accumulated a 4.4 win share average for his junior year. Paul Scruggs is a very solid player but he didn’t improve much at all between his supposed breakout soph season and his junior season. Has he plateaued? Nate Watson? This guy’s minutes WENT DOWN from his sophomore season. Last year as a junior he still failed to crack double figures as a scoring average. Also last season almost all of his key stats went down after entering Big East play. As an upperclassman who does not shoot threes or long jumpers he had an unimpressive fg percentage of .511 and he got to even that so-so number thanks to his offensive rebounding most likely. He’s solid but did the BE run out of names to have him predicted to make Second Team? A few of these guys didn’t average ten points per contest last season despite being Pre-Season All Big East selections for this upcoming year. Obviously scoring isn’t the only part of the game but nonetheless the resumes of some of them aren’t that impressive. When it comes to upside and just sheer number of representation, Villanova has the edge. That said Collin Gillespie, in my opinion, is a guy whose effectiveness is more the result of the system he plays in and the players surrounding him. As a fan of an opposing team he is not the type of player that scares me. And that’s my view of looking at it in general. Hardly any of these guys scare me and only one team, Villanova, is one that I look at with a huge talent advantage. Yeah, one could push back that the Hoyas don’t have anyone that as of right now are keeping opposing coaches up at night, but that is well documented and represented by their lack of representation on any of these lists and the judgment by the coaches that the team will finish last. That said what I do know of is that down the stretch these Hoyas with roughly six scholarship players were highly competitive with these teams and within distance of pulling off upsets even after ceding large early leads in some of the games. The two of those players that aren’t returning (Jagan and Terrell) will be missed but are not the type of players who put up the type of numbers that are hard to replace. Of course the two upperclassmen of the Hoyas that are returning (Pickett and Blair) should be viewed with at least as much skepticism as some of the players on other teams I dogged above. That said I think the odds of them having just as good as season as those other guys are not all that worse. And this time they and Qudus and Tim will have more than just two (or four when Mac and Omer were still playing) other scholarship players to help them out. They will have nine. If one or two newcomers can match or surpass Terrell’s output, if a frosh or two other than Sibley surprises at the very least in readiness for BE play, if any of the returning players take a major step forward, this team should be able to be a solid, middle-of-the-pack team. We’ll definitely have an advantage in size and on the boards. I agree entirely that the whole league is incredibly underwhelming this year. This seems like the lowest level of talent I can remember collectively on these All-Big East teams. Not a single player I’m worried about being too much for us to handle. I have no idea what we have in our team, but with even a few surprises, we can be middle of this league.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Oct 28, 2020 10:18:20 GMT -5
This is pathetic. What will be even more pathetic if we “outperform” by finishing 9th or 10th, all the praise for Ewing and the great job he’s doing. He should be fired now but he’ll probably end up with a lifetime contract. This post is pathetic but unfortunately mirrors the mindset of HT fandom. If being thought of as the worst team in the league in year four isn’t pathetic, then what is?
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DudeSlade
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I got through the Esherick years. I can get through anything.
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Post by DudeSlade on Oct 28, 2020 10:21:04 GMT -5
[/quote]I'll save the gushing for Jordan Riley, thank you very much. And as for personnel, that's GU's call 110%, but how many teams sitting where Georgetown is haven't made a single change to the staff in four years? If Ewing can do no better than with Orr, Kirby, and Waheed, good for him. The results on and off the court remain underperforming for a program that Georgetown once was, and aspires to be again. [/quote]
I’m a believer that Ewing can turn this around given the time, and that last year’s transfers were a freak occurrence that reset how quickly we return to the top. But Im with you in not understanding how you no changes were made. You can’t have 4 years of futility and not change it up at all. I don’t know who that should be and won’t speculate, but no program I’ve seen turn it around with the same head coach or not, has retained all of the assistants through this many years. If for no other reason, then you’ve got to get new energy in the building.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Oct 28, 2020 10:22:30 GMT -5
Major chip on the shoulder gentlemen, major chip. The whole league just straight up disrespected us and Pat don't like that.
And MCI is totally right - putting a guy like Bryce Nze above Pick in these pre-season selections is ridiculous. He shot a higher percentage but has NO range. Nze has taken 5 three pointers in the BEast and their rebound numbers are comparable. If not outright disrespect, at the very least that is motivational material for Pick, Q and the whole team. I take Q every day of the week and twice on Sundays over Mamu and Nate.
Plus, no factoring in at all of the "win one for the Gipper" issue. Anyone who believes the Hoyas are not going to be able to kick some serious tuchus in the season dedicated to Pops is, well, to use his favorite term, a dumbass motherghuker.
1 2 3 Fireballs
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Oct 28, 2020 10:22:43 GMT -5
Yo, this is the Big Bad Big East that Hoya fans here and on twitter have been fretting about these past six months? A conference in which THESE GUYS are the ones predicted to be the elite of the league? What do we have here? A serial transfer guard under 6 feet tall in Charlie Moore who averaged under 14 points per game while shooting 37% from the floor. Mamukelashvili is a 6'11 big man who if truly elite would be getting ready to be drafted by the NBA based upon his three-point shooting percentage and height. But he is back in school for his senior season because his win share of 2.3 for his junior season and his 11 points per game average tells the story of his limitations. By comparison despite being a subpar defender, Jessie Govan accumulated a 4.4 win share average for his junior year. Paul Scruggs is a very solid player but he didn’t improve much at all between his supposed breakout soph season and his junior season. Has he plateaued? Nate Watson? This guy’s minutes WENT DOWN from his sophomore season. Last year as a junior he still failed to crack double figures as a scoring average. Also last season almost all of his key stats went down after entering Big East play. As an upperclassman who does not shoot threes or long jumpers he had an unimpressive fg percentage of .511 and he got to even that so-so number thanks to his offensive rebounding most likely. He’s solid but did the BE run out of names to have him predicted to make Second Team? A few of these guys didn’t average ten points per contest last season despite being Pre-Season All Big East selections for this upcoming year. Obviously scoring isn’t the only part of the game but nonetheless the resumes of some of them aren’t that impressive. When it comes to upside and just sheer number of representation, Villanova has the edge. That said Collin Gillespie, in my opinion, is a guy whose effectiveness is more the result of the system he plays in and the players surrounding him. As a fan of an opposing team he is not the type of player that scares me. And that’s my view of looking at it in general. Hardly any of these guys scare me and only one team, Villanova, is one that I look at with a huge talent advantage. Yeah, one could push back that the Hoyas don’t have anyone that as of right now are keeping opposing coaches up at night, but that is well documented and represented by their lack of representation on any of these lists and the judgment by the coaches that the team will finish last. That said what I do know of is that down the stretch these Hoyas with roughly six scholarship players were highly competitive with these teams and within distance of pulling off upsets even after ceding large early leads in some of the games. The two of those players that aren’t returning (Jagan and Terrell) will be missed but are not the type of players who put up the type of numbers that are hard to replace. Of course the two upperclassmen of the Hoyas that are returning (Pickett and Blair) should be viewed with at least as much skepticism as some of the players on other teams I dogged above. That said I think the odds of them having just as good as season as those other guys are not all that worse. And this time they and Qudus and Tim will have more than just two (or four when Mac and Omer were still playing) other scholarship players to help them out. They will have nine. If one or two newcomers can match or surpass Terrell’s output, if a frosh or two other than Sibley surprises at the very least in readiness for BE play, if any of the returning players take a major step forward, this team should be able to be a solid, middle-of-the-pack team. We’ll definitely have an advantage in size and on the boards. I agree entirely that the whole league is incredibly underwhelming this year. This seems like the lowest level of talent I can remember collectively on these All-Big East teams. Not a single player I’m worried about being too much for us to handle. I have no idea what we have in our team, but with even a few surprises, we can be middle of this league. And I disagree entirely. I'm not going to go fully in depth on why, but I think you guys are really underestimating the talent of some of these other teams. I think if the Hoyas improve this season and outperform that ranking, it's on the defensive end. I don't think our team has the scoring firepower it did last season and I think defense and effective transition offense needs to make up for that. But, like if I look at a guy like Mamu, I see tons if potential, and also he was injured last season. I think someone like James Bouknight is a star in the making. I'm not super high on this Providence team (and I like their backcourt much more than Watson), but I still disagree with everything that you said about the rest of the BE. But hey, we've got a month until the season, let's see who ends up being right.
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by seaweed on Oct 28, 2020 10:26:41 GMT -5
I'll save the gushing for Jordan Riley, thank you very much. And as for personnel, that's GU's call 110%, but how many teams sitting where Georgetown is haven't made a single change to the staff in four years? If Ewing can do no better than with Orr, Kirby, and Waheed, good for him. The results on and off the court remain underperforming for a program that Georgetown once was, and aspires to be again. I guess if you go fact free and ignore the hiring of Coach Crouch, this argument likely makes sense to you.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 28, 2020 10:34:03 GMT -5
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Post by trillesthoya on Oct 28, 2020 10:34:16 GMT -5
Major chip on the shoulder gentlemen, major chip. The whole league just straight up disrespected us and Pat don't like that. Uhh I definitely did not pick up the vibe Pat was fired up about being picked last by the coaches. Going to be honest, nothing in his comments sounded particularly optimistic, though to be fair he has never been one to exaggerate the team's capabilities.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Oct 28, 2020 10:38:55 GMT -5
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 28, 2020 10:41:27 GMT -5
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guru
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Post by guru on Oct 28, 2020 10:45:26 GMT -5
DFW, as always we appreciate your burning-roof take on the program but considering you didn't feel the team would finish above ten what difference does it make if the opposing coaches think the team will finish 11th? You act as if its a sign of disrespect towards Ewing but just perhaps that is merely a case of you projecting. Excuse me, but you are projecting. An 11th place poll is a reflection not on Ewing as a coach (and no one credible says he cannot coach), but a team that has slid right to the bottom of the list over his tenure, that has regularly underperformed in the Big East, and has the largest single year turnover of players on a GU roster in 70 years. But what is really says is that they don't see this team moving up. If Georgetown was as good as it could be, you don't sit them behind DePaul, arguably the worst Big East entrant since Miami. Marquette lost a ton and they're not picked last. And stop acting as if the university is being held hostage by bad decisions and coaching since its the university that has hired the personnel to handle those issues in the first place. Besides you don't have to look any further than DePaul as a school/program that had been in a worse spiral for far longer than Georgetown and yet they are still around and may be on the verge of a comeback. I mean you yourself can't stop yourself from gushing over the four star recruits they are bringing in. I'll save the gushing for Jordan Riley, thank you very much. And as for personnel, that's GU's call 110%, but how many teams sitting where Georgetown is haven't made a single change to the staff in four years? If Ewing can do no better than with Orr, Kirby, and Waheed, good for him. The results on and off the court remain underperforming for a program that Georgetown once was, and aspires to be again. Look, the bottom line is that the program, quite literally, has nowhere to go but up. We can whine and cry but that’s where we are. This year’s roster looks like a last place team to me. With experience and incoming talent, next year should be better. But projecting this program more than a few months into the future has been a fool’s errand for quite some time. So who knows what next season - or, hell, even February - will look like for this team. Bottom line: Ewing has not improved the state of the program. We have remained on the same trajectory as the last few JT3 seasons. I love Patrick but the results, for *whatever* reasons, simply have not been there. Of course, I’m rooting for the coaches and the team to surprise, especially since I don’t see any changes being made anytime soon.
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Post by trillesthoya on Oct 28, 2020 10:46:41 GMT -5
Promoting one means firing the other, and I'm guessing there is hesitance to fire anyone in the midst of this pandemic. The NCAA is supposedly planning to loosen some of the rules around what activities Special Assistants can participate in, and I believe I read somewhere this might include allowing them to be more involved in the recruiting process. Regardless- the recruiting is fine. We did as good as we possibly could in 2021 given what happened last year, and we might even considerably exceed those expectations if we land Aminu. Until the recruiting is bad again, I'm not stressing over who is an assistant and who is not.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 28, 2020 10:50:24 GMT -5
I agree entirely that the whole league is incredibly underwhelming this year. This seems like the lowest level of talent I can remember collectively on these All-Big East teams. Not a single player I’m worried about being too much for us to handle. I have no idea what we have in our team, but with even a few surprises, we can be middle of this league. And I disagree entirely. I'm not going to go fully in depth on why, but I think you guys are really underestimating the talent of some of these other teams. I think if the Hoyas improve this season and outperform that ranking, it's on the defensive end. I don't think our team has the scoring firepower it did last season and I think defense and effective transition offense needs to make up for that. But, like if I look at a guy like Mamu, I see tons if potential, and also he was injured last season. I think someone like James Bouknight is a star in the making. I'm not super high on this Providence team (and I like their backcourt much more than Watson), but I still disagree with everything that you said about the rest of the BE. But hey, we've got a month until the season, let's see who ends up being right. I am pretty confident at the very least that Wahab is more underestimated by these BE coaches than I am underestimating these opposing BE players you are high on.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 28, 2020 10:57:44 GMT -5
Major chip on the shoulder gentlemen, major chip. The whole league just straight up disrespected us and Pat don't like that. Uhh I definitely did not pick up the vibe Pat was fired up about being picked last by the coaches. Going to be honest, nothing in his comments sounded particularly optimistic, though to be fair he has never been one to exaggerate the team's capabilities. Luckily Ewing is apparently all fire and brimstone behind the scenes as he curses up a storm and demands a certain physical level from his players during practice. So I will assume he is not one to growl on camera promising retribution at all the doubters. He'll remind his guys, away from the cameras, of this slight from now until the end of the season. But in front of the cameras he is not going to cause any waves.
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