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Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 4, 2020 23:26:19 GMT -5
There just aran't enough guys right now and not enough gas left in their tank. I've been utterly amazed with what Patrick has been able to get out of them, particularly the two young bigs. I wish it were more, but that would drive me crazy as that just isn't the reality. Four good players coming in (2 star small PG, 3 star PG, 3 star wing, 4 star wing) and two spots still open (if Yurtseven stays, if not one more to fill). Agree we're too shorthanded now to really challenge any decent team. It took an A+ game to barely beat Butler; even a B game from us right now isn't enough to guarantee victory against SJU or Depaul. You're definitely higher on the incoming class than I am. And even if they turn out to be more legit than not, I'm not 100% sold on this staff as presently constructed to get the most out of those 4.
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madgesiq92
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,400
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 5, 2020 6:23:34 GMT -5
The bar will be set really low at the start of next season. Agree that apathy is slowly setting in. The product is not worth time and money. It is very likely Georgetown will be 10th of 11th in the pre-season poll. The season ticket mailers should be going out within the month. This is spot on. Glad someone else said it. Staff needs to pull a rabbit out of its hat in the grad transfer period because incoming class does not have players that will make an immediate impact next year in order for fans to see to say the future is bright. This is a total rebuild with an overall talent defecit larger than the one Ewing inherited. No Govan or Derrickson in this group.
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rhw485
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 743
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Post by rhw485 on Mar 5, 2020 7:44:01 GMT -5
THIS is the bad place • Somehow the score was worse than the final. An 11-0 run against Creighton’s bench warmers but it was 26 when McDermott finally relented • I get that Creighton is a great offensive team and we are a bad defensive team…I’m still not sure there is an excuse for allowing 17-31 3s (I’m ignoring the last 5 by Creighton benchwarmers). That’s the most Creighton hit all year, and 1.3 points per possession was somehow helped by 5 straight zeros at the end. I mean we gave up a layup off a made 3 from top of key, that’s middle school level stuff. And Ewing called it out in huddle for Pickett to help, but there’s just a lack of attention to detail that plagues this team • The only positive I have from the night was Wahab, more specifically him being comfortable going over his right shoulder to finish w left hand. He had gotten into a bad habit of working too hard to go to his right hand. • And for part of the first half it was a game…until it wasn’t. Hoyas down by 1, we force a bad shot in 2-3 zone (Mahoney 12 foot mid range baseline), Wahab flies by shooter, Pickett fails to rebound, Mahoney follows his shot and gets an and 1. Next time down, Wahab hard hedges on wrong side as screen is flipped, Zegarowski hits an uncontested 3. Then Mosely doesn’t get the foul call as he’s bodied on a 3, Creighton goes down and gets a transition hoop, Ewing gets a tech, and it’s 11 point lead in 53 seconds of game time. The refs then spent the entire 2nd half trying to make up for that call. Not blaming refs, missed calls happen we just don’t have the margin for error • When we talk about player development and there’s an argument our players have gotten better, I can’t help but bring up Pickett vs. Alexander. Pickett was an anchor recruit and a huge recruiting coup at the time. His development was always going to be critical for this rebuild and our first real test of player development for Ewing. Stats are O-rating / usage for Big East games Player | Pickett | Alexander | Rivals Rank | 81 | 84 | Freshman | 95/19 | 91.5/17 | Sophomore | 90/17 | 97.4/25 | Junior | 87/20 | 120/21 |
• I really don’t know where we go from here. It’s almost impossible to evaluate Ewing’s coaching at this point given the roster. Those who are saying give it til year 4 are missing the point imo, next year is going to be worse. I bet he pulls back on the schedule from here on out (we can’t back out of LA event) to protect his record and agree we'll be preseason 10th or last in Big East. What are we going to do then?
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 5, 2020 8:19:38 GMT -5
Is this based on reality or just a narrative you’ve come up with? I don’t think you understand how quick some of these game planning tendencies can be disrupted. Real question and not shade, but have you actually been a part of NCAA game planning in the past? Are you speaking from experience? Not that you’re the originator of the argument, but you can’t have it both ways. Either it’s coach speak or teams and their game plans are more transparent than ever... I think I know way more than you think I do about the amount of info out there and preparation that goes into these games. Well you didn’t answer the question but if you have experience in this area then you’d know coaching staffs have different styles and tendencies, particularly some newer staffs/coaches and it’s hard to generalize then....and the fact that the incentives to actually win aren’t tied to increased transparency/press access. Those are two different discussions. It isn’t and easier to guess what your opponent will do to try to match up with you than it was 5 or 10 or 15 years ago. It’s just different, personnel is always changing and the book is only really out on the longer tenured coaches, and they tend to have had success because their game plans are effective even when predictable.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,362
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Post by calhoya on Mar 5, 2020 8:31:17 GMT -5
Think I have reached my breaking point. All of us have different expectations for next year. With 3 open scholarships and the grad transfer/decommit market about to open, I am not ready to give the coaching staff and the Administration a pass on next season. This is not professional sports with a draft and a reward waiting at the end of the year for the teams that tank and blow off their season and their fans. Losing teams are not awarded 5* recruits. Rather than beat that horse to death again, I will say if Ewing reverts to a cupcake schedule again or pulls out of the pre-season tournament, I think it is a horrible comment on the coaching staff and its perception of itself and the players it brought in to the program. Might as well announce to the college basketball world that we are a mid-major program. It does not matter if there will be 20 league games next year. The team needs challenges against quality opponents prior to hitting the BE wars. I love Ewing as a player and still have high hopes for him as a coach after what I have seen this year, but having been the greatest Hoya of all-time and a loyal alum to the program does not justify giving him a "do-over" as a coach after three middling years. The defections are on the players who left, but each of them was recruited by this staff (not inherited)and they have to take some ownership of who they brought in, how they used them and why they left. I expect significant improvement next year and so should every other fan of this program.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 5, 2020 8:43:51 GMT -5
There are really only three forseeable paths towards maintaining respectability next year.
1) The staff is going to have to recruit significantly better during the spring period than they have shown in the last 3 years (Cisse, Walton, impact grad transfer).
2) The guys they have returning and/or incoming have to develop at a significantly faster rate than they have in the last 3 years. Across the board and significant.
3) Standard defensive principles and schemes have to radically alter.
In my mind, #3 is the easiest to achieve out of the above. But, it's fairly obvious that in order to achieve all 3, the program needs to re-evaluate the staff as presently constructed. If there are assistants or coaches who aren't ready or able to contribute to the above 3, they need to be replaced ASAP. Can't be taking our sweet time like 3 springs ago in identifying the people we want while other schools beat us to the punch.
How the program handles the next 4 weeks or so will have a significant impact over the next few seasons. I am praying they don't royally screw it up but it's been a long time since our collective faith has been rewarded.
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,488
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Post by dchoya72 on Mar 5, 2020 10:40:57 GMT -5
DC supports winning. We need more skilled players. We were snake-bitten this year. I feel for the team and applaud their effort, they have to be exhausted but playing proudly. It is what it is! Go Hoyas!!!
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Post by teddy16 on Mar 5, 2020 11:54:15 GMT -5
Individual effort really should be expected. playing smart and effectively are characteristics instilled by coaching. just look at the way GU plays compared to Nova. Compare the 2 programs - - we are not gaining on them. painful to admit but our basketball program just doesn't measure up. that's just a fact. nova has outstanding leadership and theres total 'buy in' from players, admin., students, alumni. they are a real quality program, regardless if they go to another final 4 (and who doesn't believe that they have a good chance of going back this year or next?). GU desperately needs to look ahead and not be so tied to its past. Our soccer programs are the envy of many programs around the country. its evident we have outstanding leadership there.
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Post by gatormcclusky on Mar 5, 2020 12:11:32 GMT -5
Only bright spot is Wahab is really growing up agreed, at least this increased PT should help accelerate his maturation and development. Kid's got a really bright future.
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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Post by mdtd on Mar 5, 2020 12:41:44 GMT -5
THIS is the bad place • I really don’t know where we go from here. It’s almost impossible to evaluate Ewing’s coaching at this point given the roster. Those who are saying give it til year 4 are missing the point imo, next year is going to be worse. I bet he pulls back on the schedule from here on out (we can’t back out of LA event) to protect his record and agree we'll be preseason 10th or last in Big East. What are we going to do then? I agree very much with everything mentioned in this post. But, I just feel the need to comment on this bullet point. DON'T STEP BACK ON THE SCHEDULE!!!!!!! This years schedule gave us a legit shot to dance if we had all of our 7. One shocking game, one big win and the season completely changes. Stepping back on the schedule admits defeat from the coaching staff It admits to us that they don't believe in the work they have worked for four years to accomplish. As a fan, that's insulting. I've defended Ewing's scheduling (though that first year was really, really bad, it made sense. But it was REALLY bad) but stepping back at this point is an absolute NO. If you want to have a shot at competing next year, play a good schedule. I don't know if we will participate in the Gavitt Games this season, but if we don't schedule a game against a high major. Play good teams. Don't step back.
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hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoyainla on Mar 5, 2020 12:54:38 GMT -5
I think I know way more than you think I do about the amount of info out there and preparation that goes into these games. Well you didn’t answer the question but if you have experience in this area then you’d know coaching staffs have different styles and tendencies, particularly some newer staffs/coaches and it’s hard to generalize then....and the fact that the incentives to actually win aren’t tied to increased transparency/press access. Those are two different discussions. It isn’t and easier to guess what your opponent will do to try to match up with you than it was 5 or 10 or 15 years ago. It’s just different, personnel is always changing and the book is only really out on the longer tenured coaches, and they tend to have had success because their game plans are effective even when predictable. Not sure what answer you are looking for. I will put it like this, don't believe any praise an opposing coach places on the team or coach they just beat. They are only doing it to pump up their own team and to show respect. As for the game planning if they didn't know that Mac and Yurt weren't playing than they weren't paying attention and whoever is in charge of such a thing should be fired. As for preparing for the Hoyas regardless of personnel, well really that's not that hard. What really changes?
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 5, 2020 14:53:54 GMT -5
Well you didn’t answer the question but if you have experience in this area then you’d know coaching staffs have different styles and tendencies, particularly some newer staffs/coaches and it’s hard to generalize then....and the fact that the incentives to actually win aren’t tied to increased transparency/press access. Those are two different discussions. It isn’t and easier to guess what your opponent will do to try to match up with you than it was 5 or 10 or 15 years ago. It’s just different, personnel is always changing and the book is only really out on the longer tenured coaches, and they tend to have had success because their game plans are effective even when predictable. Not sure what answer you are looking for. I will put it like this, don't believe any praise an opposing coach places on the team or coach they just beat. They are only doing it to pump up their own team and to show respect. As for the game planning if they didn't know that Mac and Yurt weren't playing than they weren't paying attention and whoever is in charge of such a thing should be fired. As for preparing for the Hoyas regardless of personnel, well really that's not that hard. What really changes? I think that you once again inserted yourself into an unrelated conversation and it has gotten off topic. Not sure which direction you are attempting to take the conversation but all I was responding to is the notion that it’s easier to game plan in 2020 than it was in 2010, in terms of anticipating the opponents eventual game plan.
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rhw485
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 743
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Post by rhw485 on Mar 5, 2020 15:16:28 GMT -5
THIS is the bad place • I really don’t know where we go from here. It’s almost impossible to evaluate Ewing’s coaching at this point given the roster. Those who are saying give it til year 4 are missing the point imo, next year is going to be worse. I bet he pulls back on the schedule from here on out (we can’t back out of LA event) to protect his record and agree we'll be preseason 10th or last in Big East. What are we going to do then? I agree very much with everything mentioned in this post. But, I just feel the need to comment on this bullet point. DON'T STEP BACK ON THE SCHEDULE!!!!!!! This years schedule gave us a legit shot to dance if we had all of our 7. One shocking game, one big win and the season completely changes. Stepping back on the schedule admits defeat from the coaching staff It admits to us that they don't believe in the work they have worked for four years to accomplish. As a fan, that's insulting. I've defended Ewing's scheduling (though that first year was really, really bad, it made sense. But it was REALLY bad) but stepping back at this point is an absolute NO. If you want to have a shot at competing next year, play a good schedule. I don't know if we will participate in the Gavitt Games this season, but if we don't schedule a game against a high major. Play good teams. Don't step back. Preaching to the choir here. I am not endorsing a weaker schedule, I just remember a quote from Ewing after the transfers that was to the effect of "I made this schedule expecting the team I was going to have, now we have to play those games shorthanded". Not a direct quote but something to that effect. Made me question whether he evolved on scheduling or genuinely tries to match schedule to his teams expectations.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Mar 5, 2020 16:54:26 GMT -5
Not sure what answer you are looking for. I will put it like this, don't believe any praise an opposing coach places on the team or coach they just beat. They are only doing it to pump up their own team and to show respect. As for the game planning if they didn't know that Mac and Yurt weren't playing than they weren't paying attention and whoever is in charge of such a thing should be fired. As for preparing for the Hoyas regardless of personnel, well really that's not that hard. What really changes? I think that you once again inserted yourself into an unrelated conversation and it has gotten off topic. Not sure which direction you are attempting to take the conversation but all I was responding to is the notion that it’s easier to game plan in 2020 than it was in 2010, in terms of anticipating the opponents eventual game plan. You seemed to imply in the post that I replied to that our cloak of secrecy worked as an advantage because it caused X coaches to work extra hard to plan for us. I responded by saying that I thought Steele was full of crap and was just doing what all coaches do in post game interviews and our cloak of secrecy didn't matter in this case, but if in fact it did the X staff is bad at advanced scouting. On the matter of is it easier to scout in 2020 than 2010 of course it is and it's not particularly close.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 5, 2020 17:42:34 GMT -5
I think that you once again inserted yourself into an unrelated conversation and it has gotten off topic. Not sure which direction you are attempting to take the conversation but all I was responding to is the notion that it’s easier to game plan in 2020 than it was in 2010, in terms of anticipating the opponents eventual game plan. You seemed to imply in the post that I replied to that our cloak of secrecy worked as an advantage because it caused X coaches to work extra hard to plan for us. I responded by saying that I thought Steele was full of crap and was just doing what all coaches do in post game interviews and our cloak of secrecy didn't matter in this case, but if in fact it did the X staff is bad at advanced scouting. On the matter of is it easier to scout in 2020 than 2010 of course it is and it's not particularly close. So why exactly do you think it’s easier for coaches to now predict what the opposing team will do now in 2020 versus 2010?
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hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoyainla on Mar 5, 2020 19:18:02 GMT -5
You seemed to imply in the post that I replied to that our cloak of secrecy worked as an advantage because it caused X coaches to work extra hard to plan for us. I responded by saying that I thought Steele was full of crap and was just doing what all coaches do in post game interviews and our cloak of secrecy didn't matter in this case, but if in fact it did the X staff is bad at advanced scouting. On the matter of is it easier to scout in 2020 than 2010 of course it is and it's not particularly close. So why exactly do you think it’s easier for coaches to now predict what the opposing team will do now in 2020 versus 2010? Because the advancement of analytics and shot charts. Also the access to information and film is better and easier.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 5, 2020 21:08:22 GMT -5
So why exactly do you think it’s easier for coaches to now predict what the opposing team will do now in 2020 versus 2010? Because the advancement of analytics and shot charts. Also the access to information and film is better and easier. Right. Agree to disagree.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Mar 5, 2020 23:09:06 GMT -5
As for defending the 3, just really lazy defense by a lot of our guys tonight which exacerbated even our usual poor defensive principles/schemes. Going under screens. Not fighting around screens. The halfhearted overhelps and recovers. First time all year where it didn't look like our guys wanted to be out there and it showed. This team has played it's heart out. Basically a six man rotation this month, guys playing 40 minutes, or close to it, night after night. I understand some fans cannot fight the urge to come to Hoyatalk after a tough loss and share their pant load tantrum with the world, whatever. To call these guys lazy is utterly abominable.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 5, 2020 23:30:14 GMT -5
As for defending the 3, just really lazy defense by a lot of our guys tonight which exacerbated even our usual poor defensive principles/schemes. Going under screens. Not fighting around screens. The halfhearted overhelps and recovers. First time all year where it didn't look like our guys wanted to be out there and it showed. This team has played it's heart out. Basically a six man rotation this month, guys playing 40 minutes, or close to it, night after night. I understand some fans cannot fight the urge to come to Hoyatalk after a tough loss and share their pant load tantrum with the world, whatever. To call these guys lazy is utterly abominable. I come after every game, win or lose. That's what I saw. If you saw Patrick grilling Pickett at one of the timeouts, you saw he saw the same thing. Completely agree that these guys have been asked far more than they should be asked to do or are even physically capable of. But they did not play well last night and that goes for even early on in the game even before fatigue should have set in.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Mar 5, 2020 23:49:38 GMT -5
Creighton made Georgetown work really hard on O. Creighton had four guys that combined for 17 3's in 31 attempts. That was a Creighton win, a blowout win at that, more than a Georgetown loss. Bottom line, "lazy" is a personal attack, an attack that you are wrong to make. Ewing applying the whip hand is no excuse. That's one of the many things I love about this singularly difficult season. The team hasn't given up or even let up from Ewing on down. These guys have been spilling their guts out.
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