blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,762
|
Post by blueandgray on Oct 30, 2019 0:16:59 GMT -5
Reminds Ewing of Smitty.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,596
|
Post by DanMcQ on Oct 30, 2019 2:06:40 GMT -5
|
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,037
|
Post by jwp91 on Oct 30, 2019 5:36:40 GMT -5
I’d take that in a heartbeat
|
|
dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,488
|
Post by dchoya72 on Oct 30, 2019 7:23:34 GMT -5
Bring on the full-court press!!!
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Oct 30, 2019 7:44:19 GMT -5
Smitty and full-court press...add in "hockey-like substitutions" and I might drop dead for pure joy!!!
|
|
Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,495
|
Post by Elvado on Oct 30, 2019 8:27:00 GMT -5
I trust the Coach’s eye over that of any talent evaluator writing for a blog or network or recruiting service. If Patrick thinks he can help it is good enough for me.
|
|
Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Oct 30, 2019 9:05:39 GMT -5
Dante will have to work on finishing at the hoop against bigger defenders and guarding BE level PGs, much like James has to. Dante has a nice pull-up shot and a quick release and range from three. Could be a solid backup early on and develop into more over time.
|
|
daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,352
|
Post by daveg023 on Oct 30, 2019 9:38:47 GMT -5
I’m going to come across as the downer, but I had thought we’d be in a better spot to get a guy who was at least on another peer team’s radar, especially when we only have 2 spots (currently) for this class. This is Year 4 of recruiting, not Year 1. I get ratings aren’t the end all be all, but I don’t see Villanova, Seton Hall, Xavier, Marquette, Providence, etc signing kids of this ilk. To me there are too many people in the business to be that under the radar, and other team’s interest is a good indication of a general consensus about a kid’s ability.
Akinjo, Leblanc, and Mac certainly were pleasant surprises, but outside of Mac, they were relatively higher ranked recruits hovering around the Top 100. And in the case of Mac, his ranking was tough to pin down due to his HS competition. Ewing’s other forays into lower ranked kids? Walker, Sodom, Carter, Blair. 3 have left the team, and Blair is the only one who has been a somewhat positive addition but it was Ewing’s first year, he didn’t have the luxury to be overly picky. In Year 4, I wouldn’t think we’d be in a position to be reaching for someone that no one else wants.
I guess I just don’t get the “trust Pat” narrative on finding diamonds in the rough. I don’t know if his track record shows he’s done that yet. I hope I’m pleasantly surprised, but I was kinda shocked to see all the optimism on here after seeing this signing.
|
|
Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,495
|
Post by Elvado on Oct 30, 2019 9:55:22 GMT -5
Your position is totally justified.
However, I have seen any number of “can’t miss HS superstars” who sucked out loud in college to put much stock in rankings.
If Pat sees something in this kid that suits what he is trying to do, I trust his judgment.
In my book, Pat gets the benefit of the doubt for now.
|
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,037
|
Post by jwp91 on Oct 30, 2019 10:35:58 GMT -5
I believe R.J.’s offer sheet was not too dissimilar when Patrick got involved.
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Oct 30, 2019 11:03:06 GMT -5
I had the exact same thought. And I believe this young man would have had offers from multiple major programs had he held out until the Spring.
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,961
|
Post by EtomicB on Oct 30, 2019 11:21:22 GMT -5
I believe R.J.’s offer sheet was not too dissimilar when Patrick got involved. I'll be rooting heavily for Harris to have success his senior year & throughout his career @ Gtown but I have to say this thought about RJ is not anywhere close to being true... Here's an article on RJ's recruitment from June of last year. The long-running thought on the board that Gtown was the 1st HM to offer wasn't true at all... www.lohud.com/story/sports/high-school/lohud-varsity-insider/2018/06/15/boys-basketball-recruiting-heats-up-stepinacs-r-j-davis/704227002/The only underclassman voted first-team all-league by the CHSAA last season has already has 12 Division I scholarship offers. He received offers from Old Dominion, Manhattan, Saint Louis, La Salle, and UMass prior to his sophomore season. Fordham, St. John's, Marist and Illinois all offered Davis during the season and Maryland and George Washington followed suit this spring. He then picked up his most recent offer from Seton Hall Friday morning.
|
|
LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
|
Post by LCPolo18 on Oct 30, 2019 11:59:08 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 30, 2019 12:27:14 GMT -5
I’m going to come across as the downer, but I had thought we’d be in a better spot to get a guy who was at least on another peer team’s radar, especially when we only have 2 spots (currently) for this class. This is Year 4 of recruiting, not Year 1. I get ratings aren’t the end all be all, but I don’t see Villanova, Seton Hall, Xavier, Marquette, Providence, etc signing kids of this ilk. To me there are too many people in the business to be that under the radar, and other team’s interest is a good indication of a general consensus about a kid’s ability. Akinjo, Leblanc, and Mac certainly were pleasant surprises, but outside of Mac, they were relatively higher ranked recruits hovering around the Top 100. And in the case of Mac, his ranking was tough to pin down due to his HS competition. Ewing’s other forays into lower ranked kids? Walker, Sodom, Carter, Blair. 3 have left the team, and Blair is the only one who has been a somewhat positive addition but it was Ewing’s first year, he didn’t have the luxury to be overly picky. In Year 4, I wouldn’t think we’d be in a position to be reaching for someone that no one else wants. I guess I just don’t get the “trust Pat” narrative on finding diamonds in the rough. I don’t know if his track record shows he’s done that yet. I hope I’m pleasantly surprised, but I was kinda shocked to see all the optimism on here after seeing this signing. This is a rational perspective, for sure, even though it might be in the minority here, and probably unpopular with those who only have a tolerance for positive spin. The most successful recruits Ewing has had have generally be those that were ranked/got press: Akinjo was clearly a top 100 recruit and LeBlanc was top 150ish (granted, I think he'll prove to be one of the best of his class before all is said and done). McClung was not highly ranked, but clearly played over his ranking. Thus far, I think Pickett has underperformed his top 100 ranking. And as you said, some of the other under-the-radar guys haven't really panned out, or have been just okay. I think Ewing has done a good job of evaluating talent. Clearly, he's had success in getting in on good talent early on, though his ability to close some on those guys has been limited. Much of this is the place the program finds itself - with no NCAA now in almost 5 years, it's hard to sell the school (even though some other coaches hired in the same timeframe have had more success in recruiting). I think the 2018 class was really good, and I think the 2019 class has a lot of potential (though a bit more weighted toward projects than I would prefer). I also thought the 2020 class would need to be a higher impact class than it has turned out to be, but if we have a good season and make the NCAA tournament, I would not discount the possibility of a high-impact recruit signing in the spring. Also, I think the concern about the 2020 class is somewhat mitigated by the fact that aside from Yurtseven, it's highly unlikely anybody else would be NBA ready (of course, that doesn't necessarily mean others would not try). Thus, I do think that the 2020 class is probably less important than 2019 and 2021 will be, but you have to constantly restock talent.
|
|
DallasHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,636
|
Post by DallasHoya on Oct 30, 2019 12:51:24 GMT -5
I’d take that in a heartbeat If only - an unheralded recruit who ended up Big East Player of the Year, BET MVP, consensus second team All-America and starting point guard on the US Olympic team.
|
|
DudeSlade
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I got through the Esherick years. I can get through anything.
Posts: 1,209
|
Post by DudeSlade on Oct 30, 2019 13:10:25 GMT -5
I’m going to come across as the downer, but I had thought we’d be in a better spot to get a guy who was at least on another peer team’s radar, especially when we only have 2 spots (currently) for this class. This is Year 4 of recruiting, not Year 1. I get ratings aren’t the end all be all, but I don’t see Villanova, Seton Hall, Xavier, Marquette, Providence, etc signing kids of this ilk. To me there are too many people in the business to be that under the radar, and other team’s interest is a good indication of a general consensus about a kid’s ability. Akinjo, Leblanc, and Mac certainly were pleasant surprises, but outside of Mac, they were relatively higher ranked recruits hovering around the Top 100. And in the case of Mac, his ranking was tough to pin down due to his HS competition. Ewing’s other forays into lower ranked kids? Walker, Sodom, Carter, Blair. 3 have left the team, and Blair is the only one who has been a somewhat positive addition but it was Ewing’s first year, he didn’t have the luxury to be overly picky. In Year 4, I wouldn’t think we’d be in a position to be reaching for someone that no one else wants. I guess I just don’t get the “trust Pat” narrative on finding diamonds in the rough. I don’t know if his track record shows he’s done that yet. I hope I’m pleasantly surprised, but I was kinda shocked to see all the optimism on here after seeing this signing. This is a rational perspective, for sure, even though it might be in the minority here, and probably unpopular with those who only have a tolerance for positive spin. The most successful recruits Ewing has had have generally be those that were ranked/got press: Akinjo was clearly a top 100 recruit and LeBlanc was top 150ish (granted, I think he'll prove to be one of the best of his class before all is said and done). McClung was not highly ranked, but clearly played over his ranking. Thus far, I think Pickett has underperformed his top 100 ranking. And as you said, some of the other under-the-radar guys haven't really panned out, or have been just okay. I think Ewing has done a good job of evaluating talent. Clearly, he's had success in getting in on good talent early on, though his ability to close some on those guys has been limited. Much of this is the place the program finds itself - with no NCAA now in almost 5 years, it's hard to sell the school (even though some other coaches hired in the same timeframe have had more success in recruiting). I think the 2018 class was really good, and I think the 2019 class has a lot of potential (though a bit more weighted toward projects than I would prefer). I also thought the 2020 class would need to be a higher impact class than it has turned out to be, but if we have a good season and make the NCAA tournament, I would not discount the possibility of a high-impact recruit signing in the spring. Also, I think the concern about the 2020 class is somewhat mitigated by the fact that aside from Yurtseven, it's highly unlikely anybody else would be NBA ready (of course, that doesn't necessarily mean others would not try). Thus, I do think that the 2020 class is probably less important than 2019 and 2021 will be, but you have to constantly restock talent. Generally agree with both these takes and thought that we could be competing for top level talent at this point. It's not hard to look at the program and see a real upward trajectory, so despite the 5 years of no NCAAs, I would have thought at least 1 top level kid would join up. But my positivity at the moment on this one comes from the following: - Evaluation Capability: Yes, our classes haven't necessarily been under-the-radar types, but Coach has routinely shown an eye for evaluation by being on and offering early kids that have risen up the rankings. Almost all of them have ended up elsewhere. But regardless, the question is how good of an evaluator is he, and it seems he does his own evaluations and is one of the earliest eyes to catch talent, at least amongst HM coaches. So he's earned some trust there. - Not a Panic Offer: We are still prior to the early signing period, let alone the late one. Coach has shown he's willing to wait til the last minute to get a good player to fill out the roster and he's been able to pull those guys in -- see Pickett, Sodom, Akinjo, Allen, Alexander. This isn't a last minute offer to fill out a class or try to fill a hole. He determined to offer this kid prior to the early signing period, when presumably there were other options on the table and he knows there will be others late. That means he chose this kid purposefully. - Late Growth + Skillset + Abnormal Recruiting Area = Potential True Under-the-Radar Talent: Otto Porter showed that being in an abnormal recruiting zone and not popping up on radars can keep you from being ranked highly in recruiting services or getting lots of coaches attention. It took til the end of the year for him to get ranked in the 30s, which was in retrospect still far too low for him. I'm not saying this kid is Otto, but if Otto could go under-the-radar, a short PG in Eastern Tennessee could too. Kids without size always get discounted, and he just grew 2 inches to hit 6 foot. Add that to him supposedly being a good shooter and fast, and putting up 30 ppg/9 apg in a small school/conference, and he fits that type of under-the-radar guard type model that mid-majors seem to just crush it with. If he was taller, playing in a normal recruiting area or at a big-time school or AAU, and wasn't recruited, I'd really be questioning. But he does seem to fit the type that escapes major recruitment til late in the year. I would not be surprised to see him move up rankings or get attention from coaches now that this came out. That said, he could be a total reach. I have no idea. More than anything, though, I can't see coach panic offering a kid at this stage, so he has to see something he likes. He's done a good job of building a team to fit the types he wants. Even the 3 transfers you mention - Walker (who was JTIII's recruit), Sodom, and Carter - all showed enough talent that had they stuck around, I think we'd see them contributing solidly now. I could also see Coach looking around and deciding there were no kids that he thought could push Akinjo for the starting PG left, so get a guy that will be a very solid backup but not scare away 2021 top PGs, and then recruit like crazy for the position in 2021 when they'd only overlap with Akinjo for a year. So I'm reserving judgment at this point with my positivity being a trust in Pat and his approach, which I've found impressive for building a long-term program back up. If you tell me we could get another Cole Anthony tomorrow, my opinion would of course change.
|
|
seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,670
|
Post by seaweed on Oct 30, 2019 13:30:30 GMT -5
Generally agree with both these takes and thought that we could be competing for top level talent at this point. It's not hard to look at the program and see a real upward trajectory, so despite the 5 years of no NCAAs, I would have thought at least 1 top level kid would join up. But my positivity at the moment on this one comes from the following: - Evaluation Capability: Yes, our classes haven't necessarily been under-the-radar types, but Coach has routinely shown an eye for evaluation by being on and offering early kids that have risen up the rankings. Almost all of them have ended up elsewhere. But regardless, the question is how good of an evaluator is he, and it seems he does his own evaluations and is one of the earliest eyes to catch talent, at least amongst HM coaches. So he's earned some trust there. - Not a Panic Offer: We are still prior to the early signing period, let alone the late one. Coach has shown he's willing to wait til the last minute to get a good player to fill out the roster and he's been able to pull those guys in -- see Pickett, Sodom, Akinjo, Allen, Alexander. This isn't a last minute offer to fill out a class or try to fill a hole. He determined to offer this kid prior to the early signing period, when presumably there were other options on the table and he knows there will be others late. That means he chose this kid purposefully. - Late Growth + Skillset + Abnormal Recruiting Area = Potential True Under-the-Radar Talent: Otto Porter showed that being in an abnormal recruiting zone and not popping up on radars can keep you from being ranked highly in recruiting services or getting lots of coaches attention. It took til the end of the year for him to get ranked in the 30s, which was in retrospect still far too low for him. I'm not saying this kid is Otto, but if Otto could go under-the-radar, a short PG in Eastern Tennessee could too. Kids without size always get discounted, and he just grew 2 inches to hit 6 foot. Add that to him supposedly being a good shooter and fast, and putting up 30 ppg/9 apg in a small school/conference, and he fits that type of under-the-radar guard type model that mid-majors seem to just crush it with. If he was taller, playing in a normal recruiting area or at a big-time school or AAU, and wasn't recruited, I'd really be questioning. But he does seem to fit the type that escapes major recruitment til late in the year. I would not be surprised to see him move up rankings or get attention from coaches now that this came out. That said, he could be a total reach. I have no idea. More than anything, though, I can't see coach panic offering a kid at this stage, so he has to see something he likes. He's done a good job of building a team to fit the types he wants. Even the 3 transfers you mention - Walker (who was JTIII's recruit), Sodom, and Carter - all showed enough talent that had they stuck around, I think we'd see them contributing solidly now. I could also see Coach looking around and deciding there were no kids that he thought could push Akinjo for the starting PG left, so get a guy that will be a very solid backup but not scare away 2021 top PGs, and then recruit like crazy for the position in 2021 when they'd only overlap with Akinjo for a year. So I'm reserving judgment at this point with my positivity being a trust in Pat and his approach, which I've found impressive for building a long-term program back up. If you tell me we could get another Cole Anthony tomorrow, my opinion would of course change. Does Yurtseven count as a top guy coming in? His name never seems to come up in any discussion of recruiting, but Coach certainly landed a big time talent with him.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2019 13:43:24 GMT -5
I believe R.J.’s offer sheet was not too dissimilar when Patrick got involved. I'll be rooting heavily for Harris to have success his senior year & throughout his career @ Gtown but I have to say this thought about RJ is not anywhere close to being true... Here's an article on RJ's recruitment from June of last year. The long-running thought on the board that Gtown was the 1st HM to offer wasn't true at all... www.lohud.com/story/sports/high-school/lohud-varsity-insider/2018/06/15/boys-basketball-recruiting-heats-up-stepinacs-r-j-davis/704227002/The only underclassman voted first-team all-league by the CHSAA last season has already has 12 Division I scholarship offers. He received offers from Old Dominion, Manhattan, Saint Louis, La Salle, and UMass prior to his sophomore season. Fordham, St. John's, Marist and Illinois all offered Davis during the season and Maryland and George Washington followed suit this spring. He then picked up his most recent offer from Seton Hall Friday morning.This is true. Xavier Pinson would be a better analogy.
|
|
LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
|
Post by LCPolo18 on Oct 30, 2019 14:09:34 GMT -5
I’m going to come across as the downer, but I had thought we’d be in a better spot to get a guy who was at least on another peer team’s radar, especially when we only have 2 spots (currently) for this class. This is Year 4 of recruiting, not Year 1. I get ratings aren’t the end all be all, but I don’t see Villanova, Seton Hall, Xavier, Marquette, Providence, etc signing kids of this ilk. To me there are too many people in the business to be that under the radar, and other team’s interest is a good indication of a general consensus about a kid’s ability. Akinjo, Leblanc, and Mac certainly were pleasant surprises, but outside of Mac, they were relatively higher ranked recruits hovering around the Top 100. And in the case of Mac, his ranking was tough to pin down due to his HS competition. Ewing’s other forays into lower ranked kids? Walker, Sodom, Carter, Blair. 3 have left the team, and Blair is the only one who has been a somewhat positive addition but it was Ewing’s first year, he didn’t have the luxury to be overly picky. In Year 4, I wouldn’t think we’d be in a position to be reaching for someone that no one else wants. I guess I just don’t get the “trust Pat” narrative on finding diamonds in the rough. I don’t know if his track record shows he’s done that yet. I hope I’m pleasantly surprised, but I was kinda shocked to see all the optimism on here after seeing this signing. You have a totally fair perspective. Here's where I'm coming from with relation to your comments: I think some people had a let down after thinking the Hoyas might get RJ Davis and instead got Dante Harris. RJ Davis was a top 60 four star PG that UNC and Kansas and Marquette and Pitt wanted! But when RJ Davis got an offer from Georgetown this winter, he was a three star recruit ranked in the 200-250 range who had mid-major and a few local high major offers. He blew up in the summer and never looked back. This illustrates my two points: 1. While Ewing certainly gave offers to and pursued top guard talent to elevate the program, he was also recruiting a number of 3 star lower ranked guards to add depth to the team. With his ranking at the time of his Georgetown offer, even RJ Davis fits this description. And before someone points out that Verbal Commits has Dante Harris listed as a 2 star recruit, I'm pretty sure that's just the default rating when a player is rated by any of the major sites, which just means none of the sites have bothered to scout him and rate him (I wouldn't be surprised if he's listed as a 3 star by the Spring). More than likely, Georgetown has their starting backcourt for the next two to three seasons in Akinjo and McClung, so it's probably difficult to convince a player to come to Georgetown if they want immediate playing time. On the other hand, losing Mosely and Allen to graduation this year meant that a backup point guard would be a priority this recruiting cycle. It's great to get top talent, but the coaching staff needs to put together a complete roster. 2. While there aren't that many examples on the roster, Ewing has frequently been the first high major coach to give scholarship offers to recruits, and many of those players subsequently get noticed by other coaches and shoot up the rankings. Would you prefer to have a coach that leads or follows when it comes to talent evaluation? Here are some examples using 247 rankings: -Chris Ledlum offered at 134 ended at 96 -Khalil Whitney offered at 53 ended at 8 -Alonzo Gaffney offered at 129 ended at 50 (got as high as 17 at one point) -RJ Davis offered at 226 currently at 57 To your other point about Sodom, Carter, Walker, and Blair, I feel like the jury is still out. Sodom was talented, but was kicked off the team and hasn't stuck anywhere since. Carter transferred closer to home and has 3 years of eligibility left, so we'll see how he turns out. Walker was kicked off the team, but is now getting complimentary praise as being a contributor this year for Rhode Island. And Blair is at a minimum a contributing guard off the bench for this team. Additionally for your comment about other Big East schools, Providence has a guard commit for 2020 ranked in the 200's. Not all 13 scholarship players can be top 100 recruits if you're trying to build a roster for the long term.
|
|
AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,125
|
Post by AltoSaxa on Oct 30, 2019 14:10:57 GMT -5
Do we know how the recruiting connection was made and how it developed?
|
|