professorhoya
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Post by professorhoya on Aug 19, 2019 21:38:55 GMT -5
No need to question how much of a fan I am of Gtown but I'll admit that I'm a hard marker, I don't see the need to exaggerate what the team/players can & can't do... You were right to avoid calling Mac a good shooter because he isn't even an average shooter right now, I do hope that he can become one this season & beyond... We do differ on the definition of "capable" in a sports context for sure, to me ... Players who shoot below 30% in over 125+ attempts can never be defined as capable shooters in my view but to each his own... I guess I'm just at a loss at how calling someone who was 3rd on the team in 3 point makes capable is an exaggeration? If I had called him good, great, efficient, etc, I could certainly see your point. I would never call Yurt or Govan capable ball handlers as they are not asked or expected to bring the ball up the floor in just about any situation. I wouldn't call James or Mac capable post up players as that is something they are not ever asked or expected to do. Any player that is allowed to lead his team in 3 point attempts and has plays coming off screens for open 3's called for him, is clearly believed by the coaching staff to be a capable 3 point shooter. Or maybe his defense was so great, that's what kept him on the floor? Do you think if Leblanc was jacking up 3's at a rate like Mac he would've continued to start and play big minutes? If the answer is no, then what's the difference between the 2 of them? Why would one player with a much better all around game (elite defender and good rebounder) get benched for shooting 3's, while a less well rounded player would be allowed to shoot them at will and still finish third on the team in minutes? The only possible answer is that one was a capable 3 point shooter while the other was not. If I had did a breakdown of the various dimensions of Akinjo's game, and had included as I stated earlier that he is capable of taking his man off the dribble and attacking the basket, would you have been so adamant at challenging that statement? One could argue and they would probably be right that James struggled more at the rim than Mac did from 3. Yet I still consider James ability to attack the basket a major part of his game, and yes, something he is capable of doing. If you wouldn't have the same problem with me saying that about James, then it sounds more like a personal problem with Mac and a need to diminish some of his skills/talents than an issue with my use of the word capable. Why are people complaining about a guy who isn't afraid to shoot. Just two years ago we had a bunch of guys who were afraid to shoot open 3s and just passed the ball around the perimeter like a hot potato till the shot clock ran out.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 20, 2019 10:20:28 GMT -5
No need to question how much of a fan I am of Gtown but I'll admit that I'm a hard marker, I don't see the need to exaggerate what the team/players can & can't do... You were right to avoid calling Mac a good shooter because he isn't even an average shooter right now, I do hope that he can become one this season & beyond... We do differ on the definition of "capable" in a sports context for sure, to me ... Players who shoot below 30% in over 125+ attempts can never be defined as capable shooters in my view but to each his own... I guess I'm just at a loss at how calling someone who was 3rd on the team in 3 point makes capable is an exaggeration? If I had called him good, great, efficient, etc, I could certainly see your point. I would never call Yurt or Govan capable ball handlers as they are not asked or expected to bring the ball up the floor in just about any situation. I wouldn't call James or Mac capable post up players as that is something they are not ever asked or expected to do. Any player that is allowed to lead his team in 3 point attempts and has plays coming off screens for open 3's called for him, is clearly believed by the coaching staff to be a capable 3 point shooter. Or maybe his defense was so great, that's what kept him on the floor? Do you think if Leblanc was jacking up 3's at a rate like Mac he would've continued to start and play big minutes? If the answer is no, then what's the difference between the 2 of them? Why would one player with a much better all around game (elite defender and good rebounder) get benched for shooting 3's, while a less well rounded player would be allowed to shoot them at will and still finish third on the team in minutes? The only possible answer is that one was a capable 3 point shooter while the other was not. If I had did a breakdown of the various dimensions of Akinjo's game, and had included as I stated earlier that he is capable of taking his man off the dribble and attacking the basket, would you have been so adamant at challenging that statement? One could argue and they would probably be right that James struggled more at the rim than Mac did from 3. Yet I still consider James ability to attack the basket a major part of his game, and yes, something he is capable of doing. If you wouldn't have the same problem with me saying that about James, then it sounds more like a personal problem with Mac and a need to diminish some of his skills/talents than an issue with my use of the word capable. Because "capable" is too vague a descriptor when discussing this topic, I get that Mac is "capable" of making 3's to me that's an obvious point... Also, you're changing the context of your first post., Your initial post said that " While not a great three-point shooter by any means, Mac is more than capable from outside" That reads to me like you think Mac is somewhere around an average shooter from deep but the reality is that he isn't... Mac shot less than 30% from three last season, in the limited stats compiled from Kenner he was under 30% and then he went 2-11 from three in the Bahamas. Those stats are hard to get around in my view... Being 3rd on the team in 3pt makes is a product of Mac's chances(he led the team in 3pt attempts), not his ability to shoot the ball from 3 which is what we're talking about... If you stated that Akinjo was "more than capable" of finishing at the rim, I would react the same way because he hasn't proven he can do it consistently yet... .
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Post by cgallstar02 on Aug 20, 2019 17:07:29 GMT -5
Because "capable" is too vague a descriptor when discussing this topic, I get that Mac is "capable" of making 3's to me that's an obvious point... Also, you're changing the context of your first post., Your initial post said that " While not a great three-point shooter by any means, Mac is more than capable from outside" That reads to me like you think Mac is somewhere around an average shooter from deep but the reality is that he isn't... Mac shot less than 30% from three last season, in the limited stats compiled from Kenner he was under 30% and then he went 2-11 from three in the Bahamas. Those stats are hard to get around in my view... Being 3rd on the team in 3pt makes is a product of Mac's chances(he led the team in 3pt attempts), not his ability to shoot the ball from 3 which is what we're talking about... If you stated that Akinjo was "more than capable" of finishing at the rim, I would react the same way because he hasn't proven he can do it consistently yet... . And I stand by that initial post, nothing you've said has proven that Mac is an incapable 3 point shooter. You refuse to acknowledge that players who are asked by the coaching staff to do things on a regular basis are most certainly thought of by the coaching staff to be plenty capable of said things. You continue to beat down on his large number of attempts as his reason for being 3rd on the team in makes, while again, ignoring my previous statement, that for any player to be incapable of doing something yet constantly attempting to do it while still being allowed to finish 3rd on the team in minutes, that player must either 1. be thought by the coaching staff to be very capable of doing such things, or 2. be so amazing at everything else that the coaching staff is willing to look past that one flaw. I believe the answer is 1, but if you don't, that must mean you believe in 2. If it's neither, then I guess PE and his staff are fools, and you should be taking your argument up with them and not me. And yes, in spite of his struggles, I do believe Akinjo is more than capable of finishing at the rim. Would I like to see him be a bit more selective on when he decides to challenge the trees? Yes. But I would never want to take that element of the game away from him, as that would make him too one dimensional of a scorer. And I would apply that same statement to Mac. I'd love to see him attempt less difficult threes, but if he's open I want him shooting, if he's hot I don't mind him taking a tough heat check 3, and if the game is on the line I want him or James taking the last 3.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Aug 20, 2019 18:01:44 GMT -5
This thread:
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Post by stafford72 on Aug 20, 2019 20:14:30 GMT -5
Amen.
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Aug 20, 2019 20:34:02 GMT -5
Folks we have players on the team, basketball players! We've been experiencing some of the best basketball we have seen from Georgetown in eons. I've got to tell you I like being in the game at the end and I dig players who have the balls to take a tough shot at the end of the game. We are trending upward and Akinjo and Mac contribute greatly to that as does Josh and Jamorko. They are allowed to make mistakes in the course of trying to win. We have pretty good chemistry and player development and I think it will continue to get better. Peace! Go Hoyas!!
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 20, 2019 22:44:55 GMT -5
Folks we have players on the team, basketball players! We've been experiencing some of the best basketball we have seen from Georgetown in eons. I've got to tell you I like being in the game at the end and I dig players who have the balls to take a tough shot at the end of the game. We are trending upward and Akinjo and Mac contribute greatly to that as does Josh and Jamorko. They are allowed to make mistakes in the course of trying to win. We have pretty good chemistry and player development and I think it will continue to get better. Peace! Go Hoyas!! We may have the most balanced team since 2007. Counting the days!
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 22, 2019 13:30:59 GMT -5
And I stand by that initial post, nothing you've said has proven that Mac is an incapable 3 point shooter. You refuse to acknowledge that players who are asked by the coaching staff to do things on a regular basis are most certainly thought of by the coaching staff to be plenty capable of said things. You continue to beat down on his large number of attempts as his reason for being 3rd on the team in makes, while again, ignoring my previous statement, that for any player to be incapable of doing something yet constantly attempting to do it while still being allowed to finish 3rd on the team in minutes, that player must either 1. be thought by the coaching staff to be very capable of doing such things, or 2. be so amazing at everything else that the coaching staff is willing to look past that one flaw. I believe the answer is 1, but if you don't, that must mean you believe in 2. If it's neither, then I guess PE and his staff are fools, and you should be taking your argument up with them and not me. And yes, in spite of his struggles, I do believe Akinjo is more than capable of finishing at the rim. Would I like to see him be a bit more selective on when he decides to challenge the trees? Yes. But I would never want to take that element of the game away from him, as that would make him too one dimensional of a scorer. And I would apply that same statement to Mac. I'd love to see him attempt less difficult threes, but if he's open I want him shooting, if he's hot I don't mind him taking a tough heat check 3, and if the game is on the line I want him or James taking the last 3. I think part of the issue here is what you define as "capable." Nearly everyone on the Hoyas' team is capable of doing basically anything in basketball at some point. These are all Division I athletes. That's really not the issue. The issue is whether a player can do something consistently at a good rate. - Did McClung shoot 3's at even an average rate for a guard last year? No. That's really not debatable. - Did Akinjo finish at the rim at an average rate last year? No. That's also not really debatable. Now, what IS debatable is whether both guys can improve on these factors in the next year. Can McClung become a more consistently good three point shooter? Can Akinjo become a better finisher at the rim? I think both can definitely improve, but we need to wait for the season to see. The same concept applies to players who have shown potential on the court and are "capable" of big things (not just on Georgetown but on every team), but simply do not get it done. Having athleticism and talent is great, but if you don't turn that into skill and production, it doesn't really help all that much. Potential only gets you so far unless its realized. This isn't a phenomena unique to basketball. Other sports, such as baseball, are full of guys who seem to be really talented earlier in their careers who never put it together.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Nov 14, 2019 21:30:22 GMT -5
Bump!
I got bashed pretty hard for suggesting that the Hoyas should consider perhaps having Mac come off the bench. He's gotten off to a pretty atrocious start ....has anyone changed their mind yet?
(For the record, I don't blame McClung for the team coming out flat the last few games....but man he's been horrific.)
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Nov 14, 2019 21:58:33 GMT -5
Need a consistent shooting guard and so far it hasn’t been McClung or Blair. The trouble is Allen and Mosely aren’t offensive-minded players. It’s not just the three ball, but we don’t look fluid on offense at all. Lots of standing around and one-on-one garbage. When’s the last time we kicked the ball out to a shooter who drained a three? Teams do this to us all the time. So frustrating! 😡
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 14, 2019 22:35:11 GMT -5
I think Mac will be fine offensively. But I've not seen enough improvement defensively to wait for him to come around. I realize it's a bit of a catch-22 if Jagan gets slotted over him as it gives him less time to work out his offensive struggles. But the rest of the team defense isn't good enough to cover for him right now.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Nov 14, 2019 23:26:07 GMT -5
One thing for sure....we need to start Josh and have a short leash with Mac.
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HOYAPLAYA
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IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Nov 15, 2019 5:57:32 GMT -5
Need a consistent shooting guard and so far it hasn’t been McClung or Blair. The trouble is Allen and Mosely aren’t offensive-minded players. It’s not just the three ball, but we don’t look fluid on offense at all. Lots of standing around and one-on-one garbage. When’s the last time we kicked the ball out to a shooter who drained a three? Teams do this to us all the time. So frustrating! 😡 It is very frustrating especially when the opportunities to kick it out are there and we throw up a tough shot on a drive or post up which is basically the same thing as a turnover.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Nov 15, 2019 7:45:27 GMT -5
My counter to benching Mac in offseason was if you're going to play him 30 min a game then he basically has to start otherwise the math simply breaks. If he's not a 30 min a game player (and he hasn't earned it based on what he's done so far) then I absolutely agree we need to break up the time him and Akinjo share the floor. I dont care if he starts then comes out at under 16 and then goes in for Akinjo. But the flaws of them playing together are obvious, and the flaws of having them both on the bench at the same time are equally glaring.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Nov 15, 2019 7:56:44 GMT -5
Need a consistent shooting guard and so far it hasn’t been McClung or Blair. The trouble is Allen and Mosely aren’t offensive-minded players. It’s not just the three ball, but we don’t look fluid on offense at all. Lots of standing around and one-on-one garbage. When’s the last time we kicked the ball out to a shooter who drained a three? Teams do this to us all the time. So frustrating! 😡 Been complaining for a couple of years that this team is lacking a good perimeter shooter. It's not McClung now and wasn't last year. The problem isn't finding a player to shoot the 3 as Blair and McClung launch regularly. The problem is the lack of a guard who can consistently make the 3. Combine the inconsistency from these two players with a general lack of defense and perhaps it's time to find out if Gardner (also not a shooter) can add height, defense and rebounding to that position. Let Akinjo be your shooter--he has a better percentage from deep. Get Pickett more shots from the perimeter and get LeBlanc back in the game full time.
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Nov 15, 2019 8:09:01 GMT -5
Need a consistent shooting guard and so far it hasn’t been McClung or Blair. The trouble is Allen and Mosely aren’t offensive-minded players. It’s not just the three ball, but we don’t look fluid on offense at all. Lots of standing around and one-on-one garbage. When’s the last time we kicked the ball out to a shooter who drained a three? Teams do this to us all the time. So frustrating! 😡 Been complaining for a couple of years that this team is lacking a good perimeter shooter. It's not McClung now and wasn't last year. The problem isn't finding a player to shoot the 3 as Blair and McClung launch regularly. The problem is the lack of a guard who can consistently make the 3. Combine the inconsistency from these two players with a general lack of defense and perhaps it's time to find out if Gardner (also not a shooter) can add height, defense and rebounding to that position. Let Akinjo be your shooter--he has a better percentage from deep. Get Pickett more shots from the perimeter and get LeBlanc back in the game full time. I go for encouraging Gardner to take good shots, dont be shy. You must take open shots. It was said that Omer can go outside. Let us see that, and put Wahab down low sometimes. Our offense is stagnant unless Akinjo is on the war oath!
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Nov 15, 2019 10:40:38 GMT -5
Agree, we can’t win by exchanging twos for threes to any extent.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Nov 15, 2019 11:04:52 GMT -5
If anyone has the heart to go back and watch, especially the 2nd half, it looks as if the team outside when he was wide open for the layup and especially James decided not to pass the ball to Mac. The one time James did was late when the game was over and Mac almost immediately launched a shot that barely grazed the rim. Honestly I give James some credit for realizing Mac was cold and not letting him cause more trouble than he already did. That being said that’s a problem if James can see it but coach can’t. Maybe James realizes what most should and it’s that you feed a hot Mac and avoid a cold Mac at all costs. There doesn’t seem to be much in between. It’s no secret how I feel about Mac but if James has lost his faith in him then Pat can’t play them together. If Mac’s guy knows he’s not getting the ball we are in trouble.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Nov 15, 2019 11:09:37 GMT -5
Agree that Mac is a liability if he can’t hit shots. Troubling how cold he and Blair started.
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Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Nov 15, 2019 11:58:06 GMT -5
Mac has gotten off to a tough start. I wish we had better shooters on the bench. I agree with CalHoya that Akinjo is our best outside shooter and we need to find him 15 shots a game. I think Pickett needs to get more shots too, however we do it. Yurtseven is talented and athletic, but can't do it on his own. The rest of the team needs to start playing better defense. We are way to slow on closing out on 3 pt. shooters.
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