HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
Posts: 1,329
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Aug 17, 2019 17:59:26 GMT -5
Agreed.i was going to dispute a lot of the points on here because they just aren't rooted in fact but you addressed the main issue with the Mac fanatics. He is going to be a very good college player for us but there are going to be some disappointed fans if they keep putting him on this unrealistic pedestal. He has holes in his game like all of our players so it's not attacking him to identify those and point out he needs to get better at those areas. Some of the posters here mistake highlight reel stuff for advanced ability in a fundamental skill. For example, passing skill is a hell of a lot more than behind the back passes in transition. Of course he has holes, those have been mentioned quite a bit in this thread, I was simply pointing out his strengths, I do apologize if complimenting one of our players offends you. In regards to his passing skill, there's a reason he was tasked as our primary inbounder under the basket, and he also became an excellent post entry passer to Jessie as the season progressed last year. And yes, he is a dynamic passer on the fast break as well. There is just no credibility in this post: Excellent post entry passer - not true as we only had one of those on the roster last year and his last name was Mourning (only positive I will say about his play). Everyone else was somewhere between bad (Malinowski) to slightly above average (Jagan). Malinowski was great at finding the open man in the half court offense but just couldn't seem to make the bounce pass into the post. Mac was ok at it which is to be expected from a freshman guard who didn't have to do it much in high school. Primary inbounder under the basket - Nope, that was purely dependent on the play we were running. It's not complimenting one of our players that offends me, it's the nonsensical way some on this board just pump up their favorite players and go out of their way to try to downplay the skills of the teammates that play the same position of that favorite player.
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,762
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 17, 2019 18:08:13 GMT -5
Games vs KenPom A/B level teams (basically... tougher games) Jahvon (2 yrs): 48-154 from 3 (31.2%) Mac (1 yr): 24-76 (31.6%) BE games (2018-19) 3FG shooting Blair: 32.6% McClung: 32.1% If you're going to make a one-dimensional argument, at least pick the right guy. Blair has put up 2/3 of his shots at GU from 3. Inside the arc, he's basically useless (35%). Mac shot 56% of his shots last year from INSIDE the arc, and converted on a DSR-like (i.e. very good for G) 48% of those shots. Maybe more importantly, he drew fouls at around the best rate on the team -- if you remove James who, as a PG, gets intentionally fouled more than other spots. Mac shot 80% from the line, too. Mac's a pretty dynamic scorer already. If he's off from 3 (which he seems to be about as often as Jahvon), at least he has other value. And while we're all willing to admit he's got some "chucker" in him, shot selection (and therefore %s) usually improve year over year for college kids. I don't see how Blair's gonna be improving his shot selection when he spends 90% of the time 24 feet from the basket. Mac's a better offensive player, he's got a lot of room for improvement, and he basically already shoots it as well as our off-the-bench 3pt help (who isn't exactly a defensive stalwart himself). I just don't think you have to get into the weeds on this to know Mac should be the starter on this team. But if you want to, please revisit the DSR/LJ/Tre Campbell situation of 2015. I wish I had more hands, so I could give this post four thumbs up. Mac has much higher potential than Blair and is already a more complete and dynamic player a year behind him, but people are gonna see what they want to see. Not sure how this devolved into “who is better...Mac or Blair?”. The question was...would we be a more balanced team with Mac coming off the bench ....similar to how Lue Williams was for the Clippers as their best player last year. Amazing how so many high IQ people can get things so twisted when emotions come into play. Very entertaining...7 pages in.
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,037
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Post by jwp91 on Aug 17, 2019 18:37:11 GMT -5
I wish I had more hands, so I could give this post four thumbs up. Mac has much higher potential than Blair and is already a more complete and dynamic player a year behind him, but people are gonna see what they want to see. Not sure how this devolved into “who is better...Mac or Blair?”. The question was...would we be a more balanced team with Mac coming off the bench ....similar to how Lue Williams was for the Clippers as their best player last year. Amazing how so many high IQ people can get things so twisted when emotions come into play. Very entertaining...7 pages in. I’m holding you responsible. 😂
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,762
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 17, 2019 18:40:31 GMT -5
Lol...this was the plan the whole time.
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,037
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Post by jwp91 on Aug 17, 2019 18:52:50 GMT -5
Lol...this was the plan the whole time. I should have figured because you know too much about basketball to ask such a ridiculous question! 😂😂 I’ll be ready when you ask the question whether Mac is the best athlete in Hoya sports history or only Hoya basketball history!
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Post by cgallstar02 on Aug 17, 2019 18:53:49 GMT -5
Of course he has holes, those have been mentioned quite a bit in this thread, I was simply pointing out his strengths, I do apologize if complimenting one of our players offends you. In regards to his passing skill, there's a reason he was tasked as our primary inbounder under the basket, and he also became an excellent post entry passer to Jessie as the season progressed last year. And yes, he is a dynamic passer on the fast break as well. There is just no credibility in this post: Excellent post entry passer - not true as we only had one of those on the roster last year and his last name was Mourning (only positive I will say about his play). Everyone else was somewhere between bad (Malinowski) to slightly above average (Jagan). Malinowski was great at finding the open man in the half court offense but just couldn't seem to make the bounce pass into the post. Mac was ok at it which is to be expected from a freshman guard who didn't have to do it much in high school. Primary inbounder under the basket - Nope, that was purely dependent on the play we were running. It's not complimenting one of our players that offends me, it's the nonsensical way some on this board just pump up their favorite players and go out of their way to try to downplay the skills of the teammates that play the same position of that favorite player. Will just have to agree to disagree on his post entry passing. I saw a player that started the season as a poor one and developed into an excellent one as the season progressed. You saw differently. So be it. As for primary inbounder under the basket... not that anyone's gonna do it, but I can just about guarantee that if you checked the tape from the time Big East play started, that at any time Mac was in the game and we had an inbounds play from within half court, Mac was the inbounder anywhere from 60 - 80% of the time, possibly even more. Not sure how I downplayed the skills of his teammates? I only mentioned his teammates in positive regards as being as good or better than him at things. The only exception to that would be when I said he doesn't have the luxury that guys like Blair or Pickett have to be solely a spot up 3 point shooter, and that both he and James are required to take the majority of the difficult ones... both by choice and design... which is true and is certainly not a bash on Blair or Pickett. Not to mention, my post was simply pro Mac in response to some earlier posts that were very negative towards him. So call it what is... you had no problem apparently with direct posts bashing him but a positive post that said nothing negative about his teammates still managed to offend you as you somehow took it as a shot at his teammates. If someone says Yurt's the best low post scorer on the team, or Allen is the best perimeter defender on the team I'm not going to jump up and down and act like that's a shot at Mac or anyone else. Are we that sensitive now that complimenting a player is assumed to also carry an underhanded insult towards his teammates?
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
Posts: 1,329
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Aug 17, 2019 19:43:40 GMT -5
There is just no credibility in this post: Excellent post entry passer - not true as we only had one of those on the roster last year and his last name was Mourning (only positive I will say about his play). Everyone else was somewhere between bad (Malinowski) to slightly above average (Jagan). Malinowski was great at finding the open man in the half court offense but just couldn't seem to make the bounce pass into the post. Mac was ok at it which is to be expected from a freshman guard who didn't have to do it much in high school. Primary inbounder under the basket - Nope, that was purely dependent on the play we were running. It's not complimenting one of our players that offends me, it's the nonsensical way some on this board just pump up their favorite players and go out of their way to try to downplay the skills of the teammates that play the same position of that favorite player. Will just have to agree to disagree on his post entry passing. I saw a player that started the season as a poor one and developed into an excellent one as the season progressed. You saw differently. So be it. As for primary inbounder under the basket... not that anyone's gonna do it, but I can just about guarantee that if you checked the tape from the time Big East play started, that at any time Mac was in the game and we had an inbounds play from within half court, Mac was the inbounder anywhere from 60 - 80% of the time, possibly even more. Not sure how I downplayed the skills of his teammates? I only mentioned his teammates in positive regards as being as good or better than him at things. The only exception to that would be when I said he doesn't have the luxury that guys like Blair or Pickett have to be solely a spot up 3 point shooter, and that both he and James are required to take the majority of the difficult ones... both by choice and design... which is true and is certainly not a bash on Blair or Pickett. Not to mention, my post was simply pro Mac in response to some earlier posts that were very negative towards him. So call it what is... you had no problem apparently with direct posts bashing him but a positive post that said nothing negative about his teammates still managed to offend you as you somehow took it as a shot at his teammates. If someone says Yurt's the best low post scorer on the team, or Allen is the best perimeter defender on the team I'm not going to jump up and down and act like that's a shot at Mac or anyone else. Are we that sensitive now that complimenting a player is assumed to also carry an underhanded insult towards his teammates? We can agree to disagree. The points in my post were not all directed at you and the insult towards teammates is not a Mac exclusive phenomenon. I'm a big fan of the skillset that Mac contributes to the team as I love his ability to penetrate and finish in a variety of ways. However, I'm not going to inflate the areas that he needs to work on. Same with Akinjo, Pickett, Blair, etc..,. My favorite player is Leblanc but I still recognize that he's got a long way to go in post defense and development of multiple offensive moves to complement the great part of his game.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 17, 2019 20:08:17 GMT -5
Be fair, Mac misses his share of open spot-up 3's and I doubt PE is asking him to create difficult 3's off the dribble when the offense bogs down... Mac was 12-29(41.3%) in the 1st four conference games... He went 14-52(26.9%) over the next 14 conference games, plus he went 0-6 in the two tourney games... In his last 16 games, he shot 14-58(24.1%) from behind the arc, he's a bad 3pt shooter right now... Never said he didn't miss his share of open spot up 3's just that the degree of difficulty on many of his 3's is much higher than anyone else on the team besides maybe James. And I guess we were watching different games last year, cus the ones I saw, when the shot clock was whittling away, the ball was generally kicked back out to one of the two ball handlers (James or Mac) who were then forced to go one on one at the end of a shot clock and create usually some difficult off balance shot, often times from 3. I don't know if that's something PE "asked" of them, I think it's common sense that just about every team in college and the NBA does... give the ball to your creators towards the end of a shot clock. Would you rather Pickett or Leblanc get the ball in those situation or James and Mac? I know who I'm going with. And I said he was a more than capable 3 point shooter... given that he finished 3rd on the team in 3 pointers made last season, I would say that qualifies. AI shot 23% as a freshman... was he a good 3 point shooter then? No. Capable? Yes. Not sure what showing me his stats does as I never called him a good 3 point shooter. Like AI as a freshman it's still a part of his game that teams must worry about, he's still capable of getting hot and hitting 3 or 4 in a row, it's a dimension to his game. Mac was 3rd in made threes last season because he took the most on the team last season, in fewer games as well... He took 141 threes in 29 games, that's 8 more than Akinjo(133) in 4 fewer games... By your definition, almost every player is a capable 3pt shooter. Why would any staff worry about an opposing player going to the weakest part of their game? I'd bet a nice chunk of change that opposing game plans will live with Mac shooting 3's right now...
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Post by gatormcclusky on Aug 17, 2019 20:16:48 GMT -5
I wish I had more hands, so I could give this post four thumbs up. Mac has much higher potential than Blair and is already a more complete and dynamic player a year behind him, but people are gonna see what they want to see. Not sure how this devolved into “who is better...Mac or Blair?”. The question was...would we be a more balanced team with Mac coming off the bench ....similar to how Lue Williams was for the Clippers as their best player last year. Amazing how so many high IQ people can get things so twisted when emotions come into play. Very entertaining...7 pages in. ha, I'm all good man...just having a little sidebar to one of hoyainla's usual completely unbiased takes on everyone's favorite Gate City alumnus
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Post by cgallstar02 on Aug 18, 2019 0:42:35 GMT -5
Never said he didn't miss his share of open spot up 3's just that the degree of difficulty on many of his 3's is much higher than anyone else on the team besides maybe James. And I guess we were watching different games last year, cus the ones I saw, when the shot clock was whittling away, the ball was generally kicked back out to one of the two ball handlers (James or Mac) who were then forced to go one on one at the end of a shot clock and create usually some difficult off balance shot, often times from 3. I don't know if that's something PE "asked" of them, I think it's common sense that just about every team in college and the NBA does... give the ball to your creators towards the end of a shot clock. Would you rather Pickett or Leblanc get the ball in those situation or James and Mac? I know who I'm going with. And I said he was a more than capable 3 point shooter... given that he finished 3rd on the team in 3 pointers made last season, I would say that qualifies. AI shot 23% as a freshman... was he a good 3 point shooter then? No. Capable? Yes. Not sure what showing me his stats does as I never called him a good 3 point shooter. Like AI as a freshman it's still a part of his game that teams must worry about, he's still capable of getting hot and hitting 3 or 4 in a row, it's a dimension to his game. Mac was 3rd in made threes last season because he took the most on the team last season, in fewer games as well... He took 141 threes in 29 games, that's 8 more than Akinjo(133) in 4 fewer games... By your definition, almost every player is a capable 3pt shooter. Why would any staff worry about an opposing player going to the weakest part of their game? I'd bet a nice chunk of change that opposing game plans will live with Mac shooting 3's right now... Yes I would say 6 of the 10 guys that played meaningful minutes last year were "capable" 3 point shooters. Mac, James, Jessie, Greg, Jamorko and Blair. To further that, I am pretty certain PE ran plays throughout the year for all 6 of those players to set them up for open 3 point shots. Beyond that, Mac, James and to a lesser extent Jessie seemed to be the 3 guys that PE wanted taking any sort of last second 3 to win or tie a close game. I do not believe a coach would run plays to setup Mac for open 3's, nor would he want Mac taking any sort of last second critical 3 at the buzzer if he was not a capable 3 point shooter. By your definition AI was not a capable 3 point shooter as a freshman, Russell Westbrook is not a capable 3 point shooter in the NBA, and there's probably hundreds more similar examples. Sure it's not the strongest parts of either of those players games or Mac's, but like Russell and AI, it's a weapon in the arsenal that has to be respected. Also like Russell and AI, as noted earlier, Mac is tasked with taking far more difficult 3 point shots than anyone else other than James on the roster, simply because he and James were the only 2 players capable of creating their own shot off the dribble last season. Is Kyle Korver a better 3 point shooter than Westbrook? Of course. That said, imagine asking Korver to take his man off the dribble and pull up for off balance 3's from several feet behind the line with a hand in his face. Then tell Westbrook to just stand outside and take catch and shoot 3's. Korver's percentage would plummet while Westbrook's would certainly improve. Would he be as good a shooter as Korver in that role? No. But he'd be a lot better than he is now. But they have their specific roles based on what they excel at. Korver is an exceptional spot up 3 point shooter, but offers little else. Russell is a tremendous athlete who can attack the rim at will, handle the ball, and yes pull up and hit 3's off the dribble in spite of his fairly low percentage. If I said that Akinjo was a terrible ball handler because he averaged more turnovers than any other player on the team what would everyone's response be? Well that's only because he handles the ball more than everyone else and is also forced to dribble against more pressure, as well the fact that because of his elite handle he will attempt dribbling into tight spaces a player such as Jagan or Blair would never attempt. And that would be a correct and valid response. So why would that same principle not apply to Mac and his 3 point shooting? His percentage is negatively effected by the type of 3's he takes, both by choice and by necessity because he and James were the only 2 capable of creating and hitting those types of 3's with any regularity. By all means James was far better statistically in that role than Mac, but that doesn't negate the fact that Mac was the second best and only other player capable of taking on that role last season.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Aug 18, 2019 2:38:43 GMT -5
Well said ^^^
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 19, 2019 7:48:49 GMT -5
Mac was 3rd in made threes last season because he took the most on the team last season, in fewer games as well... He took 141 threes in 29 games, that's 8 more than Akinjo(133) in 4 fewer games... By your definition, almost every player is a capable 3pt shooter. Why would any staff worry about an opposing player going to the weakest part of their game? I'd bet a nice chunk of change that opposing game plans will live with Mac shooting 3's right now... Yes I would say 6 of the 10 guys that played meaningful minutes last year were "capable" 3 point shooters. Mac, James, Jessie, Greg, Jamorko and Blair. To further that, I am pretty certain PE ran plays throughout the year for all 6 of those players to set them up for open 3 point shots. Beyond that, Mac, James and to a lesser extent Jessie seemed to be the 3 guys that PE wanted taking any sort of last second 3 to win or tie a close game. I do not believe a coach would run plays to setup Mac for open 3's, nor would he want Mac taking any sort of last second critical 3 at the buzzer if he was not a capable 3 point shooter. By your definition AI was not a capable 3 point shooter as a freshman, Russell Westbrook is not a capable 3 point shooter in the NBA, and there's probably hundreds more similar examples. Sure it's not the strongest parts of either of those players games or Mac's, but like Russell and AI, it's a weapon in the arsenal that has to be respected. Also like Russell and AI, as noted earlier, Mac is tasked with taking far more difficult 3 point shots than anyone else other than James on the roster, simply because he and James were the only 2 players capable of creating their own shot off the dribble last season. Is Kyle Korver a better 3 point shooter than Westbrook? Of course. That said, imagine asking Korver to take his man off the dribble and pull up for off balance 3's from several feet behind the line with a hand in his face. Then tell Westbrook to just stand outside and take catch and shoot 3's. Korver's percentage would plummet while Westbrook's would certainly improve. Would he be as good a shooter as Korver in that role? No. But he'd be a lot better than he is now. But they have their specific roles based on what they excel at. Korver is an exceptional spot up 3 point shooter, but offers little else. Russell is a tremendous athlete who can attack the rim at will, handle the ball, and yes pull up and hit 3's off the dribble in spite of his fairly low percentage. I f I said that Akinjo was a terrible ball handler because he averaged more turnovers than any other player on the team what would everyone's response be? Well that's only because he handles the ball more than everyone else and is also forced to dribble against more pressure, as well the fact that because of his elite handle he will attempt dribbling into tight spaces a player such as Jagan or Blair would never attempt. And that would be a correct and valid response. So why would that same principle not apply to Mac and his 3 point shooting? His percentage is negatively effected by the type of 3's he takes, both by choice and by necessity because he and James were the only 2 capable of creating and hitting those types of 3's with any regularity. By all means James was far better statistically in that role than Mac, but that doesn't negate the fact that Mac was the second best and only other player capable of taking on that role last season. Of course the players you listed are "capable" of hitting threes but to me, it should be whether or not they're "consistently" capable of hitting threes... So no, AI wasn't a capable 3pt shooter as a freshman and Westbrook isn't a capable 3pt shooter now and neither is Mac at this stage of his career in my view... The reason this principle doesn't & can't apply to Mac's 3pt shooting is the fact that Mac isn't an elite 3pt shooter in the same way that Akinjo is an elite ball-handler, it's really that simple... He's not even a below-average 3pt shooter right now... According to the Synergy stat site of the 2751 offensive possessions, Gtown had last season 98 of them were of the end of the shot clock variety which for this site means 4 seconds or less left on the clock... Of the 98, Mac used 16 of them, Akinjo & Govan were tied for 1st @ 21 so even your narrative that Mac had to shoot tough 3's when the offense got bogged down is way overblown... Mac's a very good offensive player but saying he's a capable shooter from deep is not a very accurate label right now...
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Post by cgallstar02 on Aug 19, 2019 14:55:12 GMT -5
Of course the players you listed are "capable" of hitting threes but to me, it should be whether or not they're "consistently" capable of hitting threes... So no, AI wasn't a capable 3pt shooter as a freshman and Westbrook isn't a capable 3pt shooter now and neither is Mac at this stage of his career in my view... The reason this principle doesn't & can't apply to Mac's 3pt shooting is the fact that Mac isn't an elite 3pt shooter in the same way that Akinjo is an elite ball-handler, it's really that simple... He's not even a below-average 3pt shooter right now... According to the Synergy stat site of the 2751 offensive possessions, Gtown had last season 98 of them were of the end of the shot clock variety which for this site means 4 seconds or less left on the clock... Of the 98, Mac used 16 of them, Akinjo & Govan were tied for 1st @ 21 so even your narrative that Mac had to shoot tough 3's when the offense got bogged down is way overblown... Mac's a very good offensive player but saying he's a capable shooter from deep is not a very accurate label right now... I guess our definitions of the word "capable" are different. I specifically used that word to describe Mac's 3 point shooting, so as to avoid calling him a "good" 3 point shooter, which he is not, yet being an able one, which he is. I don't know of a better word to describe someone being not particularly good at something yet being very able. Mac averaged 1.3 3's made per game last season, AI 1.2 as a freshman, Russell 1.6 in the NBA last season. In other words all 3 guys averaged more than one 3 pointer a game, which I certainly think qualifies as "consistent." Sure they might have low percentages, and they might have games where they hit none at all, but ultimately they are still regularly hitting them enough to average more than 1 a game. If I were breaking down Akinjo's game, I would say that he is "capable" of taking his man off the dribble and finishing at the basket. Everyone knows James struggled mightily finishing at the rim last season, yet in my eyes he was the only player other than Mac that would consistently and ably take his man off the dribble and score layups, in spite of his struggles. I would not say that someone like Josh or Jamorko were capable of doing that, even though they finish around the basket much better than James, because they lacked the ability to take their man off the dribble. Does that mean they never did that? Of course not. It was however rare to see them do that. Where as James consistently attacked the basket off the dribble, often times missing or getting swatted, but also often times scoring or getting fouled. As a result that is certainly an element to his game, that despite his struggles, other teams had to worry about. I do not think teams were choosing to only play James beyond the 3 point line and essentially saying "hey, if he gets past the 3 point line, just let him shoot." Just like I don't think teams were sagging 5 or 6 feet off Mac whenever he was behind the 3 point line and daring him to shoot 3's, which is essentially what you would do with a player not capable of hitting 3's. Ultimately I guess it's crazy to me that calling one of our own players not good or great, just capable of doing something could ruffle a few so called "fans" feathers so much.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 19, 2019 15:08:52 GMT -5
Ummm...who said this was a better topic of discussion than complaining about Kenner League grading based on incomplete evaluations ? Because this thread is devolving quickly.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,596
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Post by DanMcQ on Aug 19, 2019 16:14:58 GMT -5
Ummm...who said this was a better topic of discussion than complaining about Kenner League grading based on incomplete evaluations ? Because this thread is devolving quickly. That would be me. One man's devolution is another's detour. This thread may yet drift back to the topic. Or not. Just remember, the best shots are the open ones.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 19, 2019 17:27:26 GMT -5
Of course the players you listed are "capable" of hitting threes but to me, it should be whether or not they're "consistently" capable of hitting threes... So no, AI wasn't a capable 3pt shooter as a freshman and Westbrook isn't a capable 3pt shooter now and neither is Mac at this stage of his career in my view... The reason this principle doesn't & can't apply to Mac's 3pt shooting is the fact that Mac isn't an elite 3pt shooter in the same way that Akinjo is an elite ball-handler, it's really that simple... He's not even a below-average 3pt shooter right now... According to the Synergy stat site of the 2751 offensive possessions, Gtown had last season 98 of them were of the end of the shot clock variety which for this site means 4 seconds or less left on the clock... Of the 98, Mac used 16 of them, Akinjo & Govan were tied for 1st @ 21 so even your narrative that Mac had to shoot tough 3's when the offense got bogged down is way overblown... Mac's a very good offensive player but saying he's a capable shooter from deep is not a very accurate label right now... I guess our definitions of the word "capable" are different. I specifically used that word to describe Mac's 3 point shooting, so as to avoid calling him a "good" 3 point shooter, which he is not, yet being an able one, which he is. I don't know of a better word to describe someone being not particularly good at something yet being very able. Mac averaged 1.3 3's made per game last season, AI 1.2 as a freshman, Russell 1.6 in the NBA last season. In other words all 3 guys averaged more than one 3 pointer a game, which I certainly think qualifies as "consistent." Sure they might have low percentages, and they might have games where they hit none at all, but ultimately they are still regularly hitting them enough to average more than 1 a game. If I were breaking down Akinjo's game, I would say that he is "capable" of taking his man off the dribble and finishing at the basket. Everyone knows James struggled mightily finishing at the rim last season, yet in my eyes he was the only player other than Mac that would consistently and ably take his man off the dribble and score layups, in spite of his struggles. I would not say that someone like Josh or Jamorko were capable of doing that, even though they finish around the basket much better than James, because they lacked the ability to take their man off the dribble. Does that mean they never did that? Of course not. It was however rare to see them do that. Where as James consistently attacked the basket off the dribble, often times missing or getting swatted, but also often times scoring or getting fouled. As a result that is certainly an element to his game, that despite his struggles, other teams had to worry about. I do not think teams were choosing to only play James beyond the 3 point line and essentially saying "hey, if he gets past the 3 point line, just let him shoot." Just like I don't think teams were sagging 5 or 6 feet off Mac whenever he was behind the 3 point line and daring him to shoot 3's, which is essentially what you would do with a player not capable of hitting 3's. Ultimately I guess it's crazy to me that calling one of our own players not good or great, just capable of doing something could ruffle a few so called "fans" feathers so much. No need to question how much of a fan I am of Gtown but I'll admit that I'm a hard marker, I don't see the need to exaggerate what the team/players can & can't do... You were right to avoid calling Mac a good shooter because he isn't even an average shooter right now, I do hope that he can become one this season & beyond... We do differ on the definition of "capable" in a sports context for sure, to me ... Players who shoot below 30% in over 125+ attempts can never be defined as capable shooters in my view but to each his own...
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 19, 2019 18:08:32 GMT -5
According to the Synergy stat site of the 2751 offensive possessions, Gtown had last season 98 of them were of the end of the shot clock variety which for this site means 4 seconds or less left on the clock... Of the 98, Mac used 16 of them, Akinjo & Govan were tied for 1st @ 21 so even your narrative that Mac had to shoot tough 3's when the offense got bogged down is way overblown... Do you know the numbers for how many of those shots each of them made? What this stat tells me is that (1.) Mac was not a chucker and (2.) Mac was one of the players Pat trusted with the ball at the end of the shot clock. You should too, unless you know something that Pat doesn't.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 19, 2019 18:21:39 GMT -5
According to the Synergy stat site of the 2751 offensive possessions, Gtown had last season 98 of them were of the end of the shot clock variety which for this site means 4 seconds or less left on the clock... Of the 98, Mac used 16 of them, Akinjo & Govan were tied for 1st @ 21 so even your narrative that Mac had to shoot tough 3's when the offense got bogged down is way overblown... Do you know the numbers for how many of those shots each of them made? What this stat tells me is that (1.) Mac was not a chucker and (2.) Mac was one of the players Pat trusted with the ball at the end of the shot clock. You should too, unless you know something that Pat doesn't. Mac scored 10pts in the 16 possessions, he was 3-14 from the field... Akinjo scored 14pts in his 21 possessions, he was 6-19 from the field... Out of curiosity, how did you get to number 1 from the stats? When did I ever state or imply that PE didn't or shouldn't trust Mac?
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
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Post by prhoya on Aug 19, 2019 18:29:43 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, how did you get to number 1 from the stats? From your post. Looks like Mac had the ball 5 less times than Jessie and James. When did I ever state or imply that PE didn't or shouldn't trust Mac? I meant you should trust Pat and Pat trusts Mac.
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Post by cgallstar02 on Aug 19, 2019 21:30:28 GMT -5
No need to question how much of a fan I am of Gtown but I'll admit that I'm a hard marker, I don't see the need to exaggerate what the team/players can & can't do... You were right to avoid calling Mac a good shooter because he isn't even an average shooter right now, I do hope that he can become one this season & beyond... We do differ on the definition of "capable" in a sports context for sure, to me ... Players who shoot below 30% in over 125+ attempts can never be defined as capable shooters in my view but to each his own... I guess I'm just at a loss at how calling someone who was 3rd on the team in 3 point makes capable is an exaggeration? If I had called him good, great, efficient, etc, I could certainly see your point. I would never call Yurt or Govan capable ball handlers as they are not asked or expected to bring the ball up the floor in just about any situation. I wouldn't call James or Mac capable post up players as that is something they are not ever asked or expected to do. Any player that is allowed to lead his team in 3 point attempts and has plays coming off screens for open 3's called for him, is clearly believed by the coaching staff to be a capable 3 point shooter. Or maybe his defense was so great, that's what kept him on the floor? Do you think if Leblanc was jacking up 3's at a rate like Mac he would've continued to start and play big minutes? If the answer is no, then what's the difference between the 2 of them? Why would one player with a much better all around game (elite defender and good rebounder) get benched for shooting 3's, while a less well rounded player would be allowed to shoot them at will and still finish third on the team in minutes? The only possible answer is that one was a capable 3 point shooter while the other was not. If I had did a breakdown of the various dimensions of Akinjo's game, and had included as I stated earlier that he is capable of taking his man off the dribble and attacking the basket, would you have been so adamant at challenging that statement? One could argue and they would probably be right that James struggled more at the rim than Mac did from 3. Yet I still consider James ability to attack the basket a major part of his game, and yes, something he is capable of doing. If you wouldn't have the same problem with me saying that about James, then it sounds more like a personal problem with Mac and a need to diminish some of his skills/talents than an issue with my use of the word capable.
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