SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Aug 9, 2019 9:33:45 GMT -5
Agree. And let me add, Gene Smith was the greatest defensive guard to ever don a Hoya uni. And Patrick was the greatest defensive center And JT was arguably the greatest defensive coach in college basketball history. We're talking about backcourt height, not the rest of the team. Do you think that Gene Smith would be a great defender today? I'll agree with you on Gene as the best defensive guard, but only because he stayed four years. Iverson's two BE Defender of the Year awards in his two seasons are not too shabby. Btw, he was 6'0".  Iverson was a great steals type defender, but nowhere near the straight up defensive force Gene Smith was. In all the years since then I can only think of maybe a handful of guards in all the NCAA that were as disruptive as Gene was. And that's a lot of years in between. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 9, 2019 10:41:30 GMT -5
How did our ‘84 team’s press work with our backcourt of Jackson, Smith and Broadnax all at 6’2”? Discipline and toughness, plus the Human Eraser at center were the difference, not backcourt height. For the record, our backcourt height last year was Mac 6’2”, James 6’ and Jagan 6’3”. Add Allen at 6’3” this year. I’m not including 6’3” Blair bc he cannot press. The other major difference (aside from the 1984 squad having more talent) is that in 1984 if the press was beat, the worst case scenario was an easy two point layup/dunk from the other team. With the advent of the three point line, and the growth of better quality three point shooters, breaking a press now is a lot more harmful to the pressing team when someone lands an easy 3 (50% more points than a 2), and a rim protector isn't going to help much on open threes. |
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Post by professorhoya on Aug 9, 2019 10:54:34 GMT -5
How did our ‘84 team’s press work with our backcourt of Jackson, Smith and Broadnax all at 6’2”? Discipline and toughness, plus the Human Eraser at center were the difference, not backcourt height. For the record, our backcourt height last year was Mac 6’2”, James 6’ and Jagan 6’3”. Add Allen at 6’3” this year. I’m not including 6’3” Blair bc he cannot press. The other major difference (aside from the 1984 squad having more talent) is that in 1984 if the press was beat, the worst case scenario was an easy two point layup/dunk from the other team. With the advent of the three point line, and the growth of better quality three point shooters, breaking a press now is a lot more harmful to the pressing team when someone lands an easy 3 (50% more points than a 2), and a rim protector isn't going to help much on open threes. Great point. And this is even more true when you have to recover with guys without length who wouldn't be able to effect a deadly 3pt shooter. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 9, 2019 11:24:58 GMT -5
We're talking about backcourt height, not the rest of the team. Do you think that Gene Smith would be a great defender today? I'll agree with you on Gene as the best defensive guard, but only because he stayed four years. Iverson's two BE Defender of the Year awards in his two seasons are not too shabby. Btw, he was 6'0". Iverson was a great steals type defender, but nowhere near the straight up defensive force Gene Smith was. In all the years since then I can only think of maybe a handful of guards in all the NCAA that were as disruptive as Gene was. And that's a lot of years in between. Quite right. I think Dickie Beal went straight from the Kingdome to a therapist’s couch after Gene destroyed him in the ‘84 semi. |
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Aug 9, 2019 11:45:40 GMT -5
The three point stripe is further now. Maybe, press while we rest Mac and James. Up the defense, while our offense takes a breather. I like Josh at the top of the press.
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Aug 10, 2019 8:22:39 GMT -5
So suppose the Hoyas start Akinjo/Mac/Alexander/Josh/Yurt as many speculate and play an offensive and defensive style similar to last year. Here is my idea: (Yes, it is a bit uncoventional, but it is silly season and it might be a way to exploit our depth and multiple skill sets.) What if we decided to change the pace of the game for a time to either fatigue the other team’s starters or get their starters off the floor and exploit second team mismatches? At the 12 minute mark of the first half, imagine a shift change to Allen/Mosely/Pickett/Gardner/Wilson to apply super aggressive full court pressure for 4-6 minutes until the 6-8 minute mark and then return your rested starters. That 2nd line-up has length and defensive tenacity to cause problems and could help wear out teams without depth or befuddle 2nd stringers. How many 2nd team opponents could withstand a good full court press? If the starters stay in the game, how effective will they be down the stretch in the 2nd half when the game is on the line? While Wilson is not strong enough to play in the post in the 1/2 court offense, I wonder if he could be highly effective at the back of an aggressive press where he just needs to block shots and not to fight for position. Perhaps this approach is repeated in the 2nd half for 4 minutes to get the fitness advantage for the last 6 minutes of the game. With the number of possessions available in 8-12 minutes of aggressive pressing defense, you could give a meaningful role to that 2nd line-up. It has the potential of causing problems for opponents and give them another dimension for which they have to prepare their full team making us a more difficult match-up. While teams don’t seem to radically change the pace of play for periods of the game nor do they utilize complete shift changes as substitutes, I would love to see us experiment a bit. LOTS OF PIECES HERE MEANARYWAY UP RUN RUN RUN FORTY MINUTES OF HELL go hoyas |
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Aug 10, 2019 8:25:22 GMT -5
We're talking about backcourt height, not the rest of the team. Do you think that Gene Smith would be a great defender today? I'll agree with you on Gene as the best defensive guard, but only because he stayed four years. Iverson's two BE Defender of the Year awards in his two seasons are not too shabby. Btw, he was 6'0". Iverson was a great steals type defender, but nowhere near the straight up defensive force Gene Smith was. In all the years since then I can only think of maybe a handful of guards in all the NCAA that were as disruptive as Gene was. And that's a lot of years in between. YUP THE CAPTAIN GENE SMITH WAS MR HOYA DEFENSE OF ALL TIME FOR SURE TOUGH AS NAILS as least for guards go hoyas alot of good d coming run forty minutes or more of hustling on offense AND DEFENSE |
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Aug 10, 2019 8:26:50 GMT -5
It's an interesting idea, but I honestly can't think of any teams whose success I would want to mimic that runs an aggressive press. Even Shaka has kind of went away from it at Texas. I think the key is to force teams to play in the half court, don't give up layups, and make teams shoot with a hand in their face. That's why pack line is the "it" defense right now because it limits dribble penetration, and forces teams to beat you from the outside. www.basketballforcoaches.com/pack-line-defense/ NA pressemup we got length so pressemup the whole game pickett and alexander front of the press and go hoyas |
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 10, 2019 8:30:26 GMT -5
Let’s not forget Mosley at the top of the press ad well. Leblanc could also cause havoc at the wings. If we want to press, we certainly have the personnel to do it.
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Aug 10, 2019 8:31:01 GMT -5
Two things hampered the press last year. 1. No eraser to cover for when the press gets beat. Govan isn't a shot blocker and was worried about foul trouble so when the press got beat we were giving up layups. Mourning also offered little resistance. I think this year will be different because Yurt7 has size, Wahab and Igohefe can block shots. (As well as Wilson who I think will be save for a redshirt). 2. You need length in the backcourt. Neither Mac or Akinjo have length and both are undersized for their respective positions. (It's easy to see over them and pass over them). The only way we ca Our===== the best presss in the past has been with a long armed forward on the in bounds yup NOT a guard like shelton or others so id put pickett or alexander or maybe even gardner on the in bounds NOT a guard just saying LOTS of options. |
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Aug 10, 2019 8:31:26 GMT -5
Two things hampered the press last year. 1. No eraser to cover for when the press gets beat. Govan isn't a shot blocker and was worried about foul trouble so when the press got beat we were giving up layups. Mourning also offered little resistance. I think this year will be different because Yurt7 has size, Wahab and Igohefe can block shots. (As well as Wilson who I think will be save for a redshirt). 2. You need length in the backcourt. Neither Mac or Akinjo have length and both are undersized for their respective positions. (It's easy to see over them and pass over them). The only way we ca Our===== the best presss in the past has been with a long armed forward on the in bounds yup NOT a guard like shelton or others so id put pickett or alexander or maybe even gardner on the in bounds NOT a guard just saying LOTS of options. |
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Aug 10, 2019 8:34:01 GMT -5
Agree. And let me add, Gene Smith was the greatest defensive guard to ever don a Hoya uni. And Patrick was the greatest defensive center And JT was arguably the greatest defensive coach in college basketball history. We're talking about backcourt height, not the rest of the team. Do you think that Gene Smith would be a great defender today? I'll agree with you on Gene as the best defensive guard, but only because he stayed four years. Iverson's two BE Defender of the Year awards in his two seasons are not too shabby. Btw, he was 6'0". GENE SMITH WOULD STILL BE A LOCK DOWN DEFENER TODAY in fact hes in such great shape he could STILL do that as we speak IMO> go hoyas |
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Post by HometownHoya on Aug 14, 2019 10:15:16 GMT -5
On the topic of defense but a bit of a different look: I don't think Wilson at the 4 will work for long during the regular season. Maybe some match-ups against a less mobile 4 but if he's playing a guy that is more of a wing player, can he stay in front of that guy? Malcom is long but I don't think he could survive on trailing blocks.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Aug 14, 2019 10:53:41 GMT -5
On the topic of defense but a bit of a different look: I don't think Wilson at the 4 will work for long during the regular season. Maybe some match-ups against a less mobile 4 but if he's playing a guy that is more of a wing player, can he stay in front of that guy? Malcom is long but I don't think he could survive on trailing blocks. Perhaps, but I would like to see the theory tested. It looks like he has forward mobility...just need to see the lateral mobility. At 6’10”, he could be a problem for a wing. |
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Post by HometownHoya on Aug 14, 2019 11:02:43 GMT -5
On the topic of defense but a bit of a different look: I don't think Wilson at the 4 will work for long during the regular season. Maybe some match-ups against a less mobile 4 but if he's playing a guy that is more of a wing player, can he stay in front of that guy? Malcom is long but I don't think he could survive on trailing blocks. Perhaps, but I would like to see the theory tested. It looks like he has forward mobility...just need to see the lateral mobility. At 6’10”, he could be a problem for a wing. Agreed, I hope he gets an opportunity in game to go against a small ball 4. If he can guard Pickett, Gardner, and Alexander then I will be all for it. |
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HOYAPLAYA
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Aug 14, 2019 12:47:25 GMT -5
Perhaps, but I would like to see the theory tested. It looks like he has forward mobility...just need to see the lateral mobility. At 6’10”, he could be a problem for a wing. Agreed, I hope he gets an opportunity in game to go against a small ball 4. If he can guard Pickett, Gardner, and Alexander then I will be all for it. The other question is do we think he'd fair well matched up against a Leblanc type 4 and present enough of a deterrent with his wing span to impact a guy that normally shoots a high percentage around the rim. The counter to that is leaving a guy like Leblanc to go help out for a weak side block attempt could play right into a bunch of put back dunks. It's worth testing out to see if it's a way to get him on the floor that helps our defense at the rim improve from last year. |
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Aug 14, 2019 13:29:53 GMT -5
Tonight when I watch the game (or during a re-watch), I am go to look for what Josh can do that Malcolm can’t. Until Josh starts doing more offensively, the comparison might not be as far apart as some might think. I would like to see Josh do a lot more offensively like getting 50+ three point attempts this year instead of 7.
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Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Aug 14, 2019 14:10:47 GMT -5
I'm all for forcing turnovers and a good press allows a team to do that. A good press also can get a team back into a game in a hurry, something our JT3 era teams had trouble doing. BUT, 2003 makes a good point that one thing certainly worse than "no press" is a "bad press," especially in the 3 ball era. If we add this to our arsenal, we better be good with it or, at least, realistic about when and against which teams we should use it.
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Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Aug 14, 2019 14:47:01 GMT -5
It's not just pulling up for 3, hampton, it's about having numbers and sending good shooters to spot up at the line. Lots of teams do this (and should). Bad presses that get beaten create numbers and opportunities.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 14, 2019 15:44:27 GMT -5
Curious, in college, how many players have the, um...fortitude to pull up for the three on a fast break? In the BE alone there are more than a dozen players who'll pull up from 3 in transition without hesitation... |
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