pkhoya03
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 392
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Post by pkhoya03 on Jul 3, 2005 13:16:36 GMT -5
Don't know if this has been posted yet, but I was reading Chad Ford's piece on what each team should do this off-season and he wrote that there's speculation that the Knicks are crazy about Kwame Brown and are considering a sign and trade with the Wiz for Sweetney. Anyone hear any truth to this? How sweet (no pun intended) would it be to see Mike back at MCI center? More intriguingly, if Kwame couldn't survive in DC, can you imagine how much he'd get ripped in NYC? The dude ate McDonalds everyday and needed a baby-sitter!
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,426
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 3, 2005 14:04:44 GMT -5
Don't know if this has been posted yet, but I was reading Chad Ford's piece on what each team should do this off-season and he wrote that there's speculation that the Knicks are crazy about Kwame Brown and are considering a sign and trade with the Wiz for Sweetney. Anyone hear any truth to this? How sweet (no pun intended) would it be to see Mike back at MCI center? More intriguingly, if Kwame couldn't survive in DC, can you imagine how much he'd get ripped in NYC? The dude ate McDonalds everyday and needed a baby-sitter! Yeah, a few of us discussed it on HR. I hate the idea because I don't care for the Wizards. But I hate the Knicks too. Those were the two teams I did not want Sweetney tom get drafted by. Anyway the Knicks just picked up the 4th year option of Sweets' rookie contract so I'm not sure if the rumors are all that legit.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Jul 3, 2005 21:09:40 GMT -5
They would have to pick up the option on Sweets contract regardless. They aren't going to let him walk. If they want to trade him, he has to be under contract. If they want to keep him, he has to be under contract. picking up the option doesn't tell us anything about their longer term plans.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,132
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Post by RBHoya on Jul 3, 2005 21:57:50 GMT -5
Sweet doesn't fit in New York anymore... Almost all of their other young core are run and gun, highly athletic types: Marbury, Crawford, Nate Robinson, Q, Ariza, Lee, Frye. Kwame fits in much better as an athletic, fullcourt center... Sweets posting people up in a half court set just slows the Knicks down. Of course I'm a big fan of his and so as a Knicks fan I'd love to see him stay, but based on what Isiah is doing I really don't see it.
Sweets coming to the Wiz would be good and bad... it'd be good because it'd probably mean he'd be spending more time on and around campus during the offseason and maybe even during the season at times. It'd be bad because it'd force me to root for the Wiz, and I generally root against all the other area hoop teams in the hopes that the Hoyas get more pub.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 3, 2005 23:12:58 GMT -5
Doesn't matter as long as Marburry is on the team no one gets the ball.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Jul 4, 2005 2:58:07 GMT -5
Sweet doesn't fit in New York anymore... Almost all of their other young core are run and gun, highly athletic types: Marbury, Crawford, Nate Robinson, Q, Ariza, Lee, Frye. Kwame fits in much better as an athletic, fullcourt center... Sweets posting people up in a half court set just slows the Knicks down. Of course I'm a big fan of his and so as a Knicks fan I'd love to see him stay, but based on what Isiah is doing I really don't see it. Someone has to rebound to get those fast break opportunities. And when they don't score that way, someone has to be able to post up and provide that part of the offense. I don't see any reason why Sweetney can't be part of the Knicks future. On the other hand, their future doesn't look very bright. So for his sake, it might well be better for Mike to be elsewhere.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Jul 4, 2005 3:09:11 GMT -5
Doesn't matter as long as Marburry is on the team no one gets the ball. MARBURY STATS 2004/5 8.1 APG #2 in league - total assists (688) #4 in league, APG (8.1) #5 in league for Assists per 48 minutes (9.8) Career 8.3 APG This for a guy who also averages over 20 ppg. It's not that he doesn't get people the ball. He does. He is an excellent passer. in fact, if you just look at Marbury's stats, you would think he was an outstanding player. Look at all the teams that thought so... NJ, Phoenix, NY- remember, Isiah is one of the all time best PGs and he traded FOR Marbury. I think it is more subtle, more attitude. He doesn't seem like he really enjoys the game, enjoys his teammates. He looks like a negative energy guy, always ready to point fingers. Somehow, despite his immense talent, teams don't do that well with him, and blossom after he leaves (Nets with Kidd, Suns with Nash). It is a tough one to analyse, but saying no one else gets the ball is clearly not accurate.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,132
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Post by RBHoya on Jul 4, 2005 9:31:18 GMT -5
Anybody know what Mike is doing this summer? According to an article I read the Knicks asked him to play on their summer league team and he declined.... Is he gonna be around GU? Will any of the other ex-Hoya players?
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Post by theEDGEfactor on Jul 4, 2005 10:38:56 GMT -5
He may be, but he is out as a Knick for sure. He doesnt want to be there. So, he will prolly be gone in a sign and trade.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,420
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Post by the_way on Jul 4, 2005 16:19:23 GMT -5
Doesn't matter as long as Marburry is on the team no one gets the ball. It's not that he doesn't get people the ball. He does. He is an excellent passer. in fact, if you just look at Marbury's stats, you would think he was an outstanding player. Look at all the teams that thought so... NJ, Phoenix, NY- remember, Isiah is one of the all time best PGs and he traded FOR Marbury. I think it is more subtle, more attitude. He doesn't seem like he really enjoys the game, enjoys his teammates. He looks like a negative energy guy, always ready to point fingers. Somehow, despite his immense talent, teams don't do that well with him, and blossom after he leaves (Nets with Kidd, Suns with Nash). It is a tough one to analyse, but saying no one else gets the ball is clearly not accurate. Its not really the fact that Marbury is a negative-energy guy per se. I really don't know what is going on in New York. I know he had problems with guys in Phoenix and New Jersey. In Minnesota, he just didn't want to play there because he didn't like the city. Jason Kidd is a negative-energy type guy. He is notorious for being a coach-killer, finger-pointer, having problems with teammates, and a complainer when things don't go his way. But Kidd is well-liked and protected by the media. However, I would say Kidd's game makes his team better even though his stats pale in comparison to Marbury's all-around stats. Marbury just doesn't make his teammates better and his game does not heighten the chances of his team winning. He is in that Elton Brand, Antonio McDyess in his prime, and Sharif Abdur-Rahim category. Guys that light the stat sheets up, but the stats really have no impact on the game or the team itself. These guys are the box-score champions. As oppose to Isiah or AI who have great stats but their games and stats also impacted their teams and made their teams better. As far as Sweetney. Its a bad and good trade for the Wizards. Sweetney, currently, wouldn't work with the wizards now in the Princeton Offense. Sweetney is a throwback, low-post player. Plus, like it was said before, the Wizards like to run a lot. Now, the wizards weakness in the playoffs was that the they had a hard time in the half court setting. That is where Sweets could come in , but still it wouldn't work for the Wizards. Sweets is out of shape and he needs to be a heck of lot more assertive and disciplined when it comes to his career if he plans to be productive in the NBA. Its good for the Wizards because they get at least something in return for Kwame who is damaged psychology if he stays in Washington. But I don't think Sweets fits schematically with what the Wizards are tyring to do.
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nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,674
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Post by nychoya3 on Jul 4, 2005 22:50:54 GMT -5
Yeah, Marbury does pass. But he doesn't really run the offense. He gets most of his assists playing simple pick and roll games, with Kurt Thomas mostly, kicking it out for open shots. It's hard to ignore that Steph has NEVER won a playoff series, despite playing with some pretty respectable players. With a Kidd or Nash, they spread the ball around, and you never know which way things are going to come at you. Marbury doesn't have great court vision the way those guys do, and he isn't as natural in running the show. Also, he is about the worst perimeter defender I'd ever seen until the Knicks traded for Jamal Crawford...sigh.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 4, 2005 23:15:35 GMT -5
Thank you, nyc, in addition to his inability to get assists from actually running an offense "Star"burry was also IMHO the absolute worst player on our last olympic team and definitely was a huge negative on the court.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,420
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Post by the_way on Jul 5, 2005 8:06:32 GMT -5
Thank you, nyc, in addition to his inability to get assists from actually running an offense "Star"burry was also IMHO the absolute worst player on our last olympic team and definitely was a huge negative on the court. That is a bogus statement. He wasn't the worst player on the team. I'm not the biggest Marbury fan, but come on. That is way out of line. The Olympic team lost because they got beat by better teams that wanted it more than the U.S. did, not because of Marbury or some "phantom" negative-energy on the court during those games. If you don't like Marbury as a player that is fine, but lets be real about why the Olympic team lost last summer. Marbury is one of the best players in this league. One-on-one he is great. His problem is that he game doesn't make others better. You have to put the right pieces around him. Which you shouldn't have to if you are a great player, but with Marbury you have to. He should not be a steve nash or jason kidd. He is too talented just to be a setup man. Its like making AI a Mark Jackson or John Stockton type PG. Marbury has been on teams when he wasn't solely the problem. It was front office and other players as well. Its not just a clean, cut, and dry answer of why his teams did not do well. And when Kidd and Nash joined his former teams, the problems were worked out, the coaching and front-office situation were more stable, and you saw winning results. When Marbury was with Minnesota, they were successful with he and KG as a tandem. They were young and growing and they gave the great George Karl Seattle team of GP and Kemp a scare in the opening round of the playoffs. I think KG and Marbury could have been the perfect duo. But Marbury wanted to be near or close to New York. When you put the right pieces around Marbury, his team can be successful. Right now, you put Nash and Kidd on the Knicks, and you will see similar results based on what is going on with the team and the front office. And by the way, Kidd and Nash are good, but with their "amazing court vision" they can clearly see the same amount of rings combined on their fingers as Marbury.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 5, 2005 15:14:20 GMT -5
I guess the question is who do you need to put around him? He has never been on a team that won a playoff series. I think that what Kidd and Nash bring to the table, unlike, Marburry is an ability to pass first and shoot second. I agree that Marburry is a very good one on one player - but it seems like that's really all he wants to do every time down the court. And now that his pick-and-roll buddy has been traded for a spot up shooter who doesn't really create his own shots and has a bad back I bet that he will be playing more one on one. While Kidd, Nash, and KG might not have rings they have at least won at least one play off series.
As to the Olympic team I think it was a compound failure that Marburry definitely played a part in. First you have a coach that won a championship by playing a brand of basketball (very physical, very slow, and very much in the ref's face after every play) that international basketball has eschewed. Secondly, he didn't have the talent that he should have had to work with. Thirdly, the players were not picked for the team with the idea of putting together a TEAM - along those lines I would much rather swap Marburry for Michael Redd or a point guard that would actually run the offense and get assists that way instead of running an offense that most of us learned in grade school (the pick and roll) or just playing one-on-one, which doesn't work against actual teams of high quality basketball players that actually play help defense.
It simply seems like too much of a coincidence to me that every team Marburry has been on has had a lottery ball the next year or has failed miserably (in the case of the Olympics). I do agree that the Knicks suffer from the same "win now" problem that every other team in the league has, but I think that the team would be greatly improved with the talent that the team could get for Marburry in a trade as opposed to having him on the team.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 5, 2005 15:24:15 GMT -5
Biggest Difference between Kidd and Marbury:
Kidd is the best defensive PG in basketball. Marbury barely puts forward effort.
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gopaland
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 125
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Post by gopaland on Jul 5, 2005 15:29:38 GMT -5
Should hit ESPN.com soon - but according to my source - Isiah and the Knicks have agreed to trade Sweetney to the Pistons for free summer classes from Joe Dumars University. Isiah's summer schedule looks something like this:
General Managing 101 Payroll Management 101 Avoiding Bad Trades 301 Quiting 101 - Knowing when to walk away
Don't worry Knicks fans - Isiah's cell phone will be off during class times so no more Kurt Thomas for the guy with a back problem, big contract, and lack of ability to hit a clutch shot trades.
In related news - Jamal Crawford will no longer be traded to the Celtics for two coupons good for two extra-value meals at McDonalds.
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,303
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Post by Cambridge on Jul 5, 2005 15:39:57 GMT -5
Should hit ESPN.com soon - but according to my source - Isiah and the Knicks have agreed to trade Sweetney to the Pistons for free summer classes from Joe Dumars University. Isiah's summer schedule looks something like this: General Managing 101 Payroll Management 101 Avoiding Bad Trades 301 Quiting 101 - Knowing when to walk away Don't worry Knicks fans - Isiah's cell phone will be off during class times so no more Kurt Thomas for the guy with a back problem, big contract, and lack of ability to hit a clutch shot trades. In related news - Jamal Crawford will no longer be traded to the Celtics for two coupons good for two extra-value meals at McDonalds. He isn't signed up for the advanced seminar? Donnie Darko Milicic: The Quest For Time Travel and Mistake Free Alternative Realities
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gopaland
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 125
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Post by gopaland on Jul 5, 2005 15:47:57 GMT -5
He isn't signed up for the advanced seminar? Donnie Darko Milicic: The Quest For Time Travel and Mistake Free Alternative Realities Darko wanted to use his salary to buy the Delorean from Back the Future that was on EBAY and was extremely upset when he found out it wasn't real and the flux capacitor did not work. Surprisingly Joe Dumars and the guy who drafted Sam Bowie for the Trailblazers were bidding on the same item on EBAY.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jul 5, 2005 15:48:09 GMT -5
Should hit ESPN.com soon - but according to my source - Isiah and the Knicks have agreed to trade Sweetney to the Pistons for free summer classes from Joe Dumars University. Isiah's summer schedule looks something like this: General Managing 101 Payroll Management 101 Avoiding Bad Trades 301 Quiting 101 - Knowing when to walk away Don't worry Knicks fans - Isiah's cell phone will be off during class times so no more Kurt Thomas for the guy with a back problem, big contract, and lack of ability to hit a clutch shot trades. In related news - Jamal Crawford will no longer be traded to the Celtics for two coupons good for two extra-value meals at McDonalds. He isn't signed up for the advanced seminar? Donnie Darko Milicic: The Quest For Time Travel and Mistake Free Alternative Realities LMAO, how about a science course: Psychology 203: The Face of Mental Instability - Rasheed Wallace
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,420
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Post by the_way on Jul 5, 2005 15:49:25 GMT -5
Biggest Difference between Kidd and Marbury: Kidd is the best defensive PG in basketball. Woa!!!! Slow your roll on that one. Kidd is a good passer. I could see if you said Kidd was the best in leading the fastbreak in the NBA. But Kidd is not that great of a defender. Not even close. There are no defensive PG in the NBA, if you think about it. The Glove is too old now. AI hasn't played on the ball defense since his days at GU. But Kidd is not known as a great defender. Me personally, I think Kidd is overrated. I'd take Chauncey Billips over Jason Kidd. I'd take Baron Davis over Kidd. Kidd is a coach killer, horrible teammate, cries everytime he doesn't get his way. Not the nicest guy in the world.
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