bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,508
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Post by bostonfan on Jul 15, 2019 12:18:11 GMT -5
What is this Jagan Vs Allen conversation anyways? They don't even play the same position and we have no back-up point guards behind Akinjo. We need another player who can dribble on the roster besides Akinjo. Forget defense, if he can do that much he is an upgrade over the current 0 point guards we have on our bench anyways. If we are putting players in a position to succeed, Mosley should never be a back-up for Akinjo. This will be good for Mosley as well. It was only 2 years ago that everyone on this board was upset because the team did not have any guards who were capable of handling the ball against pressure or playing even decent defense against other guards. Now everyone seems concerned we have too many of these guards! I think that is progress!! You can never have too much depth. The Big East can be a long and very physical conference and having quality depth will always be a good thing. I am glad we have all of them and hope they all find a role that suits their skills.
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wnyhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by wnyhoya on Jul 15, 2019 12:20:27 GMT -5
So for those who saw Myron this weekend, do you think he has a chance to start/see big minutes off the bench? Or, is this more just thriving in the Kenner setting? Regardless, I really like what I’m hearing
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Jul 15, 2019 13:19:57 GMT -5
What is this Jagan Vs Allen conversation anyways? They don't even play the same position and we have no back-up point guards behind Akinjo. We need another player who can dribble on the roster besides Akinjo. Forget defense, if he can do that much he is an upgrade over the current 0 point guards we have on our bench anyways. If we are putting players in a position to succeed, Mosley should never be a back-up for Akinjo. This will be good for Mosley as well. Both Mac and Mosely ran the point while Akinjo was on the bench last season. And they both did an okay job of it.
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madgesiq92
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by madgesiq92 on Jul 15, 2019 13:29:17 GMT -5
So for those who saw Myron this weekend, do you think he has a chance to start/see big minutes off the bench? Or, is this more just thriving in the Kenner setting? Regardless, I really like what I’m hearing I like him too, and think he has a lot of potential but don't see him as a big impact freshman scoring wise. Defense, rebounding and toughness will certainly help. His outside shot is a set shot and he will need to be wide open to get it off. Is kind of a 3/4 tweener. Jabril Trawick played 12 minutes per game as a freshman, 3.5 points, 1.5 rebounds-- He was ranked slightly higher than Gardner coming in---adjust those numbers for position and style of play and that's my expectation--- 5 ppg 3 rbs in 15 minutes.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hoyazeke on Jul 15, 2019 13:30:41 GMT -5
This is a solid take but I'm just not sure how much a strong defender will move the needle this coming season given that close to 60 on the back-court minutes are already taken... How much has he produced in his career? I think way too much is being made of the Duke game... I go the other way with it tbh. Imo too much is being made of Kenner league performances and his lack of scoring. Here's the numbers for the top perimeter scores in the AAC vs Allen. Jarrod Cumberland (Cincinnati) 8-31, 10.5 ppg vs UCF Jeremiah Martin (Memphis) shot 9-25 Shawn Alston (Temple) shot 11-31 28-87 (32%) for the 3 best perimeter scores in the league vs UCF Jahmal McMurray (SMU) shot 3-17 and was 0-3 before he got injured in their 2nd game Caleb Daniels (Tulane) was 3-12 Jalen Adams (UCONN) was 11-32 17-71 (24%) vs 4-6 Obviously not all of that is him, but he would have been the primary defender on all of those cats. Kid plays excellent defense, can run a team, and doesn't turn the ball over. There's always minutes for a guy like that imo.. YaBoy you are one of the regs that I rarely disagree with but do you know how much more aggressive you can be on the perimeter if you don't have to worry about the player scoring once he gets pass you? Last I checked we don't have 7'6" waiting for someone attacking the rim. Maybe Yurt7, Wahab or Wilson can be a similar presence, I don't know. But you probably could've used the stats for Duke also, minus Zion and Jones.....and if I remember correctly UFC was daring Jones to shoot...
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Jul 15, 2019 13:56:06 GMT -5
Exactly right, good defense is played as a team ... I don't care about what he's doing or not doing in Kenner, I just wonder how much impact he'll have on a team that was dysfunctional team wise defensively last season... Especially given that he's only a little better than Jagan defensively numbers wise... Allens PPP stat last season was 0.667, Jagans was 0.826 that's a 0.159 difference. I'm not a stats wizard but that seems pretty close... Defense is played by the team, but the individual do matter. You can't say too much is being made of the Duke game and respond to a stat showing the top 6 players in the league shot below 30% combined vs the kid and dismiss it as just good team defense. He and BJ Taylor were putting the clamps on guys all year. The Duke game kind of just let the world in on the secret. They were good as a team but he was very good individually. The 0.159 difference is basically very good vs elite. 67 pt's per 100 possessions vs 83. Considering how many games end up being decided by a basket here or there I think it's significant even though an average game will get around 60-80 possessions per team. I see no reason why him and Jagan can't play together, so it's not a competition imo. It just allows you to put 2 very good defenders in the game at the same time on certain possessions vs 1. And he can manage the game/run a team. I wasn't dismissing his accomplishments as just good team defense, I know Allen is tough defender... I was just acknowledging your point that it all wasn't on him, he had a good defensive team around him... Then I wondered how much of an impact he'll have on a Hoya team that stunk playing team defense last season and honestly hasn't been anywhere close to good so far in Ewing's two years...
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Jul 15, 2019 14:19:55 GMT -5
What is this Jagan Vs Allen conversation anyways? They don't even play the same position and we have no back-up point guards behind Akinjo. We need another player who can dribble on the roster besides Akinjo. Forget defense, if he can do that much he is an upgrade over the current 0 point guards we have on our bench anyways. If we are putting players in a position to succeed, Mosley should never be a back-up for Akinjo. This will be good for Mosley as well. Both Mac and Mosely ran the point while Akinjo was on the bench last season. And they both did an okay job of it. Neither have the handle to be proper back-up point guards and neither will thrive in the role. Doing an OK job of it is not enough. Its crazy to think having two actual point guards and proper ball handlers on a roster is too many.
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Post by professorhoya on Jul 15, 2019 14:42:23 GMT -5
Both Mac and Mosely ran the point while Akinjo was on the bench last season. And they both did an okay job of it. Neither have the handle to be proper back-up point guards and neither will thrive in the role. Doing an OK job of it is not enough. Its crazy to think having two actual point guards and proper ball handlers on a roster is too many. Doing an OK job doesn't get you to the tourney.
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Post by WhatRocks on Jul 15, 2019 14:43:44 GMT -5
Having watched 9 Kenner League games thus far, I offer a few observations. Pickett is much more assertive, his handle is somewhat improved, and he seems to be completing more plays successfully. Gardner is definitely a keeper who will fight for minutes. Alexander has shown less than Gardner. Since Alexander and Gardner both play on the wing, We will likely see Gardner make the bigger impact.
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Post by bigelephant on Jul 15, 2019 14:52:40 GMT -5
Having watched 9 Kenner League games thus far, I offer a few observations. Pickett is much more assertive, his handle is somewhat improved, and he seems to be completing more plays successfully. Gardner is definitely a keeper who will fight for minutes. Alexander has shown less than Gardner. Since Alexander and Gardner both play on the wing, We will likely see Gardner make the bigger impact. I totally agree with you about Gardner - he is a keeper
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 14:57:45 GMT -5
Defense is played by the team, but the individual do matter. You can't say too much is being made of the Duke game and respond to a stat showing the top 6 players in the league shot below 30% combined vs the kid and dismiss it as just good team defense. He and BJ Taylor were putting the clamps on guys all year. The Duke game kind of just let the world in on the secret. They were good as a team but he was very good individually. The 0.159 difference is basically very good vs elite. 67 pt's per 100 possessions vs 83. Considering how many games end up being decided by a basket here or there I think it's significant even though an average game will get around 60-80 possessions per team. I see no reason why him and Jagan can't play together, so it's not a competition imo. It just allows you to put 2 very good defenders in the game at the same time on certain possessions vs 1. And he can manage the game/run a team. I wasn't dismissing his accomplishments as just good team defense, I know Allen is tough defender... I was just acknowledging your point that it all wasn't on him, he had a good defensive team around him... Then I wondered how much of an impact he'll have on a Hoya team that stunk playing team defense last season and honestly hasn't been anywhere close to good so far in Ewing's two years... Gotcha. But I would hope that would be the reason why they brought in some of the guys they did.
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jul 15, 2019 15:01:22 GMT -5
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jul 15, 2019 15:30:19 GMT -5
Has 24/7 posted its review of last weekend's games or did I miss it?
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jul 15, 2019 15:38:41 GMT -5
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Post by SoCal Hoya85 on Jul 15, 2019 16:26:01 GMT -5
Exactly right, good defense is played as a team ... I don't care about what he's doing or not doing in Kenner, I just wonder how much impact he'll have on a team that was dysfunctional team wise defensively last season... Especially given that he's only a little better than Jagan defensively numbers wise... Allens PPP stat last season was 0.667, Jagans was 0.826 that's a 0.159 difference. I'm not a stats wizard but that seems pretty close... Defense is played by the team, but the individual do matter. You can't say too much is being made of the Duke game and respond to a stat showing the top 6 players in the league shot below 30% combined vs the kid and dismiss it as just good team defense. He and BJ Taylor were putting the clamps on guys all year. The Duke game kind of just let the world in on the secret. They were good as a team but he was very good individually. The 0.159 difference is basically very good vs elite. 67 pt's per 100 possessions vs 83. Considering how many games end up being decided by a basket here or there I think it's significant even though an average game will get around 60-80 possessions per team. I see no reason why him and Jagan can't play together, so it's not a competition imo. It just allows you to put 2 very good defenders in the game at the same time on certain possessions vs 1. And he can manage the game/run a team. I think Allen has better d and handle so he will get the nod, but to your other point if he and Jagan are on the floor at the same time how do we score outside of a Yurtseven post up? Not only a perimeter shooting issue but they both seem to be the game manager vs creator guard type. That being said, I will be first to admit im drawing this from a very very small sample size of play and highlights. Dont mean to sound too down on Allen either, just that I think it will be head competition for minutes with Mosley.
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madgesiq92
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,376
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Post by madgesiq92 on Jul 15, 2019 16:28:25 GMT -5
Having watched 9 Kenner League games thus far, I offer a few observations. Pickett is much more assertive, his handle is somewhat improved, and he seems to be completing more plays successfully. Gardner is definitely a keeper who will fight for minutes. Alexander has shown less than Gardner. Since Alexander and Gardner both play on the wing, We will likely see Gardner make the bigger impact. Its really interesting---I think Alexander will have a bigger impact this year on the offensive end because he has a release that will enable him to shoot from the perimeter off screens or off the dribble. Team may struggle overall to match its 3 point perimeter shooting from last year if Pickett or Alexander don't provide it from the SF position. Am very excited about Gardner long term but not sure how he scores consistently in the half court.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 16:56:47 GMT -5
Defense is played by the team, but the individual do matter. You can't say too much is being made of the Duke game and respond to a stat showing the top 6 players in the league shot below 30% combined vs the kid and dismiss it as just good team defense. He and BJ Taylor were putting the clamps on guys all year. The Duke game kind of just let the world in on the secret. They were good as a team but he was very good individually. The 0.159 difference is basically very good vs elite. 67 pt's per 100 possessions vs 83. Considering how many games end up being decided by a basket here or there I think it's significant even though an average game will get around 60-80 possessions per team. I see no reason why him and Jagan can't play together, so it's not a competition imo. It just allows you to put 2 very good defenders in the game at the same time on certain possessions vs 1. And he can manage the game/run a team. I think Allen has better d and handle so he will get the nod, but to your other point if he and Jagan are on the floor at the same time how do we score outside of a Yurtseven post up? Not only a perimeter shooting issue but they both seem to be the game manager vs creator guard type. That being said, I will be first to admit im drawing this from a very very small sample size of play and highlights. Dont mean to sound too down on Allen either, just that I think it will be head competition for minutes with Mosley. Not necessarily imo. Mainly I was talking about when you need a stop, but you could play Jagan at the 3 with 2pg's. You could play them together with Mac at the 2. I do think sometimes we may need to just hunker down on D, play through, and off Yurt. Especially when our guards get shot happy, are struggling, and start going outside of the offense too much. The comeback against USF last year was a prime example of this. We were down 11. Coach went with Jagan at the point, and all they did was get the ball to Jessie on O, and defend. He had 23pts after halftime. They brought James back late in the game, and he hit some big shots/made some big plays. But that's what settled us, and brought us back imo.
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by vv83 on Jul 15, 2019 16:58:44 GMT -5
Having watched 9 Kenner League games thus far, I offer a few observations. Pickett is much more assertive, his handle is somewhat improved, and he seems to be completing more plays successfully. Gardner is definitely a keeper who will fight for minutes. Alexander has shown less than Gardner. Since Alexander and Gardner both play on the wing, We will likely see Gardner make the bigger impact. Its really interesting---I think Alexander will have a bigger impact this year on the offensive end because he has a release that will enable him to shoot from the perimeter off screens or off the dribble. Team may struggle overall to match its 3 point perimeter shooting from last year if Pickett or Alexander don't provide it from the SF position. Am very excited about Gardner long term but not sure how he scores consistently in the half court. Based on this summer - Alexander seems like a more skilled and refined player than Gardner. My guess is that Alexander will look better in real games, because he generally tries to play something resembling "real" basketball even in Kenner games. Gardner is always in attack mode, going after open space in loosely defended games. So Gardner puts up bigger stats. Alexander is looking to play much more within structure - which means he can disappear for long stretches in kenner games that often lack much structure This is not meant as any criticism of Gardner - it makes perfect sense for him to be aggressive in these games, that is generally the best way to win in Kenner. But my guess is that it will be harder for Gardner to impact real games, when the opponent talent level is a lot higher, the defense is tighter and the pace is slower. No reason to believe Gardner won't contribute this year, and he will likely learn how to impact more structured games over time. But for this season - Alexander's added experience and more refined skill set, combined with his obvious athleticism, would seem to make him the pick to get more playing time and have more of an impact this season. Either way - they both look like talented, tough, physical, fun players who can add elements that the team has really been lacking over the last decade or so!
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by mapei on Jul 15, 2019 16:59:57 GMT -5
On another subject, do we know why Wahab didn't play this weekend? Apologies if this has already been noted somewhere.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jul 15, 2019 18:40:23 GMT -5
I think the key for me is that Ewing will have a variety of pieces to mix and match based on what he needs.
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