prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jul 15, 2019 0:11:56 GMT -5
In regards to Allen, as someone noted earlier, he seems to be very similar to Jagen. 6'3, defensive specialist with a limited offensive game. Barring an injury to one of the guards or the game being a blowout, I can't really see a reason to play both guys during a game. Seems it needs to be one or the other. I imagine practice and who performs better during the early non conference games will dictate which one of the two plays once Big East play begins. I think a lot of deference will be paid to Mosely in this regard, if indeed he and Allen bring similar tools to the court. I don’t see Allen getting a lot of minutes (I.e., more minutes than Mosely snd Blair). I don't think Pat uses deference as a factor to give minutes. Pat has shown that the player has to earn it.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Jul 15, 2019 5:56:36 GMT -5
I think a lot of deference will be paid to Mosely in this regard, if indeed he and Allen bring similar tools to the court. I don’t see Allen getting a lot of minutes (I.e., more minutes than Mosely snd Blair). I don't think Pat uses deference as a factor to give minutes. Pat has shown that the player has to earn it. Not to parse, but Mosely has already earned minutes and cemented a valuable role on the team. He’s one of those players who may not be Uber talented but that coaches really respect nonetheless. Lots of positive intangibles there. Unless Allen brings something different and is a significant upgrade, I don’t see Mosely’s backup PG minutes going to Allen. Just one man’s opinion.
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Post by tribeninerhoya on Jul 15, 2019 6:34:16 GMT -5
I don't think Pat uses deference as a factor to give minutes. Pat has shown that the player has to earn it. Not to parse, but Mosely has already earned minutes and cemented a valuable role on the team. He’s one of those players who may not be Uber talented but that coaches really respect nonetheless. Lots of positive intangibles there. Unless Allen brings something different and is a significant upgrade, I don’t see Mosely’s backup PG minutes going to Allen. Just one man’s opinion. If Mosley manages to bottle the Mosley we saw against Seton Hall, then I’m thinking he could see A LOT of minutes. That JM was an alpha.
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Post by professorhoya on Jul 15, 2019 7:42:08 GMT -5
I don't think Pat uses deference as a factor to give minutes. Pat has shown that the player has to earn it. Not to parse, but Mosely has already earned minutes and cemented a valuable role on the team. He’s one of those players who may not be Uber talented but that coaches really respect nonetheless. Lots of positive intangibles there. Unless Allen brings something different and is a significant upgrade, I don’t see Mosely’s backup PG minutes going to Allen. Just one man’s opinion. Mosley averaged 3 pts, 2.2 assits a game on a non NCAA/NIT tourney team. Allen averaged 6.7 pts, 4.3 assits a game on a NCAA tourney team that would have been Sweet 16 if not for Duke ref shenanigans. Double the production on a NCAA tourney team seems like a significant upgrade to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 8:12:06 GMT -5
Not to parse, but Mosely has already earned minutes and cemented a valuable role on the team. He’s one of those players who may not be Uber talented but that coaches really respect nonetheless. Lots of positive intangibles there. Unless Allen brings something different and is a significant upgrade, I don’t see Mosely’s backup PG minutes going to Allen. Just one man’s opinion. Mosley averaged 3 pts, 2.2 assits a game on a non NCAA/NIT tourney team. Allen averaged 6.7 pts, 4.3 assits a game on a NCAA tourney team that would have been Sweet 16 if not for Duke ref shenanigans. Double the production on a NCAA tourney team seems like a significant upgrade to me. Not sure that math works out exactly... but it's nice to have a guy like Allen - as you mention... starter from tourney team - as an addition our rotation. For too much of the last 10 years, we've been playing severely shorthanded in the backcourt.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jul 15, 2019 8:30:18 GMT -5
What does this mean exactly? Are folks saying that Allen was promised PT to come to Gtown? No,, I did not mean to imply any "promise". Hard to imagine that Ewing would ever operate in this way. The most likely scenario would seem to be that Ewing and Allen both saw a need for a strong defender with lots of high level experience. If Allen does not play well, of course he won't stay on the court because of any "promise". But I would be surprised if he does not expect to have every opportunity to earn playing time by playing at a level similar to what he produced during his first 3 seasons. the likely scenario is probably the simplest one - whoever plays the best out of Allen/Blair/Mosely will get the most playing time. This kind of competition can only make the team better. This is a solid take but I'm just not sure how much a strong defender will move the needle this coming season given that close to 60 on the back-court minutes are already taken... How much has he produced in his career? I think way too much is being made of the Duke game...
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Post by professorhoya on Jul 15, 2019 8:50:47 GMT -5
No,, I did not mean to imply any "promise". Hard to imagine that Ewing would ever operate in this way. The most likely scenario would seem to be that Ewing and Allen both saw a need for a strong defender with lots of high level experience. If Allen does not play well, of course he won't stay on the court because of any "promise". But I would be surprised if he does not expect to have every opportunity to earn playing time by playing at a level similar to what he produced during his first 3 seasons. the likely scenario is probably the simplest one - whoever plays the best out of Allen/Blair/Mosely will get the most playing time. This kind of competition can only make the team better. This is a solid take but I'm just not sure how much a strong defender will move the needle this coming season given that close to 60 on the back-court minutes are already taken... How much has he produced in his career? I think way too much is being made of the Duke game... Allen will be our third guard in the 3 guard rotation. If Akinjo gets injured Allen will be our starting point guard. Allen ball handling, speed, quickness and passing is on another level than Mosley who isn't a true point guard. Mosley is more of a combo guard/defensive specialist at this point. Blair is a 3pt gunner, not a point. His handles are suspect, and he still gets called for travel on that jump stop bad habit he brought from Canada.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 9:08:29 GMT -5
No,, I did not mean to imply any "promise". Hard to imagine that Ewing would ever operate in this way. The most likely scenario would seem to be that Ewing and Allen both saw a need for a strong defender with lots of high level experience. If Allen does not play well, of course he won't stay on the court because of any "promise". But I would be surprised if he does not expect to have every opportunity to earn playing time by playing at a level similar to what he produced during his first 3 seasons. the likely scenario is probably the simplest one - whoever plays the best out of Allen/Blair/Mosely will get the most playing time. This kind of competition can only make the team better. This is a solid take but I'm just not sure how much a strong defender will move the needle this coming season given that close to 60 on the back-court minutes are already taken... How much has he produced in his career? I think way too much is being made of the Duke game... I go the other way with it tbh. Imo too much is being made of Kenner league performances and his lack of scoring. Here's the numbers for the top perimeter scores in the AAC vs Allen. Jarrod Cumberland (Cincinnati) 8-31, 10.5 ppg vs UCF Jeremiah Martin (Memphis) shot 9-25 Shawn Alston (Temple) shot 11-31 28-87 (32%) for the 3 best perimeter scores in the league vs UCF Jahmal McMurray (SMU) shot 3-17 and was 0-3 before he got injured in their 2nd game Caleb Daniels (Tulane) was 3-12 Jalen Adams (UCONN) was 11-32 17-71 (24%) vs 4-6 Obviously not all of that is him, but he would have been the primary defender on all of those cats. Kid plays excellent defense, can run a team, and doesn't turn the ball over. There's always minutes for a guy like that imo..
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Post by practice on Jul 15, 2019 9:49:38 GMT -5
How great is it that we might have a deep back court?!? I think Coach Ewing will figure out who should play when and for how long.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jul 15, 2019 9:54:12 GMT -5
You contribute, you play.
You don't, you sit.
See how easy that was?😉
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Jul 15, 2019 9:55:10 GMT -5
Not to parse, but Mosely has already earned minutes and cemented a valuable role on the team. He’s one of those players who may not be Uber talented but that coaches really respect nonetheless. Lots of positive intangibles there. Unless Allen brings something different and is a significant upgrade, I don’t see Mosely’s backup PG minutes going to Allen. Just one man’s opinion. Mosley averaged 3 pts, 2.2 assits a game on a non NCAA/NIT tourney team. Allen averaged 6.7 pts, 4.3 assits a game on a NCAA tourney team that would have been Sweet 16 if not for Duke ref shenanigans. Double the production on a NCAA tourney team seems like a significant upgrade to me. That’s something to consider. However, Mosely was a back up and Allen started, playing a lot more minutes. I don’t believe it’s fair to compare raw production numbers. Adjusted for minutes, the production is probably very similar. I just know that Mosely is very well respected by the coaches and he brings a maturity and high IQ to the team. His minutes are not going to Allen out of the gate. Allen is the one who needs to prove that he is the upgrade and earn the minutes. Until then, I think Mosely keeps his role.
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Post by professorhoya on Jul 15, 2019 10:16:35 GMT -5
Mosley averaged 3 pts, 2.2 assits a game on a non NCAA/NIT tourney team. Allen averaged 6.7 pts, 4.3 assits a game on a NCAA tourney team that would have been Sweet 16 if not for Duke ref shenanigans. Double the production on a NCAA tourney team seems like a significant upgrade to me. That’s something to consider. However, Mosely was a back up and Allen started, playing a lot more minutes. I don’t believe it’s fair to compare raw production numbers. Adjusted for minutes, the production is probably very similar. I just know that Mosely is very well respected by the coaches and he brings a maturity and high IQ to the team. His minutes are not going to Allen out of the gate. Allen is the one who needs to prove that he is the upgrade and earn the minutes. Until then, I think Mosely keeps his role. That's the point though. Allen has proven he can start and play 30 min on an NCAA tourney team. In fact Allen played over 30 minutes as a freshman (Drexel), and a junior and senior (UCF). (sat out sophmore year under transfer rules) Mosley's minutes are 20 min, 23 min and 18 min. He's had every chance to grab the starting position on a non-NCAA tourney caliber team (especially before Akinjo) and wasn't able to. The body of work shows that we're getting an NCAA starter quality point guard in Allen who has NCAA experience. (something none of the other guards have).
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jul 15, 2019 10:18:05 GMT -5
This is a solid take but I'm just not sure how much a strong defender will move the needle this coming season given that close to 60 on the back-court minutes are already taken... How much has he produced in his career? I think way too much is being made of the Duke game... I go the other way with it tbh. Imo too much is being made of Kenner league performances and his lack of scoring. Here's the numbers for the top perimeter scores in the AAC vs Allen. Jarrod Cumberland (Cincinnati) 8-31, 10.5 ppg vs UCF Jeremiah Martin (Memphis) shot 9-25 Shawn Alston (Temple) shot 11-31 28-87 (32%) for the 3 best perimeter scores in the league vs UCF Jahmal McMurray (SMU) shot 3-17 and was 0-3 before he got injured in their 2nd game Caleb Daniels (Tulane) was 3-12 Jalen Adams (UCONN) was 11-32 17-71 (24%) vs 4-6 Obviously not all of that is him, but he would have been the primary defender on all of those cats. Kid plays excellent defense, can run a team, and doesn't turn the ball over. There's always minutes for a guy like that imo.. Exactly right, good defense is played as a team ... I don't care about what he's doing or not doing in Kenner, I just wonder how much impact he'll have on a team that was dysfunctional team wise defensively last season... Especially given that he's only a little better than Jagan defensively numbers wise... Allens PPP stat last season was 0.667, Jagans was 0.826 that's a 0.159 difference. I'm not a stats wizard but that seems pretty close...
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Post by professorhoya on Jul 15, 2019 10:28:07 GMT -5
I go the other way with it tbh. Imo too much is being made of Kenner league performances and his lack of scoring. Here's the numbers for the top perimeter scores in the AAC vs Allen. Jarrod Cumberland (Cincinnati) 8-31, 10.5 ppg vs UCF Jeremiah Martin (Memphis) shot 9-25 Shawn Alston (Temple) shot 11-31 28-87 (32%) for the 3 best perimeter scores in the league vs UCF Jahmal McMurray (SMU) shot 3-17 and was 0-3 before he got injured in their 2nd game Caleb Daniels (Tulane) was 3-12 Jalen Adams (UCONN) was 11-32 17-71 (24%) vs 4-6 Obviously not all of that is him, but he would have been the primary defender on all of those cats. Kid plays excellent defense, can run a team, and doesn't turn the ball over. There's always minutes for a guy like that imo.. Exactly right, good defense is played as a team ... I don't care about what he's doing or not doing in Kenner, I just wonder how much impact he'll have on a team that was dysfunctional team wise defensively last season... Especially given that he's only a little better than Jagan defensively numbers wise... Allens PPP stat last season was 0.667, Jagans was 0.826 that's a 0.159 difference. I'm not a stats wizard but that seems pretty close... I think both Jagan and Blair will really have to fight for minutes because both are not true point guards. Blair's a shooting guard, Jagan a combo guard. I think it's going to be really hard to keep Galen Alexander and Myron Gardner off the floor and both have good handles to play shooting guard as well as small forward so that's going to eat into Jagan and Blair's minutes. It's a good problem to have.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Jul 15, 2019 10:39:02 GMT -5
That’s something to consider. However, Mosely was a back up and Allen started, playing a lot more minutes. I don’t believe it’s fair to compare raw production numbers. Adjusted for minutes, the production is probably very similar. I just know that Mosely is very well respected by the coaches and he brings a maturity and high IQ to the team. His minutes are not going to Allen out of the gate. Allen is the one who needs to prove that he is the upgrade and earn the minutes. Until then, I think Mosely keeps his role. That's the point though. Allen has proven he can start and play 30 min on an NCAA tourney team. In fact Allen played over 30 minutes as a freshman (Drexel), and a junior and senior (UCF). (sat out sophmore year under transfer rules) Mosley's minutes are 20 min, 23 min and 18 min. He's had every chance to grab the starting position on a non-NCAA tourney caliber team (especially before Akinjo) and wasn't able to. The body of work shows that we're getting an NCAA starter quality point guard in Allen who has NCAA experience. (something none of the other guards have). The fact Allen started for UCF doesn’t mean that he will automatically take Mosely’s minutes. If Akinjo had played for UCF last year, would Allen have started?
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Post by professorhoya on Jul 15, 2019 10:42:47 GMT -5
That's the point though. Allen has proven he can start and play 30 min on an NCAA tourney team. In fact Allen played over 30 minutes as a freshman (Drexel), and a junior and senior (UCF). (sat out sophmore year under transfer rules) Mosley's minutes are 20 min, 23 min and 18 min. He's had every chance to grab the starting position on a non-NCAA tourney caliber team (especially before Akinjo) and wasn't able to. The body of work shows that we're getting an NCAA starter quality point guard in Allen who has NCAA experience. (something none of the other guards have). The fact Allen started for UCF doesn’t mean that he will automatically take Mosely’s minutes. If Akinjo had played for UCF last year, would Allen have started? I doubt it. Mosley couldn't even rest the starting point guard spot for the last three years on an inferior team.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Jul 15, 2019 10:55:57 GMT -5
The fact Allen started for UCF doesn’t mean that he will automatically take Mosely’s minutes. If Akinjo had played for UCF last year, would Allen have started? I doubt it. Mosley couldn't even rest the starting point guard spot for the last three years on an inferior team. Jagan started 20 games his freshman year. Ewing inserted Mosely into the starting lineup for 7 games last year late in the season during a critical time of conference play when we were trying to make a push for the NCAA tournament. We actually played pretty well in those games before the DePaul debacle. We're going in circles a bit, so probably best we drop it. I'm just a big fan of Jagan's character and perhaps hoping more than most that his intangibles and seniority on the team means something. As mentioned, it's a good problem to have some depth competing for minutes on the team.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 10:59:15 GMT -5
I go the other way with it tbh. Imo too much is being made of Kenner league performances and his lack of scoring. Here's the numbers for the top perimeter scores in the AAC vs Allen. Jarrod Cumberland (Cincinnati) 8-31, 10.5 ppg vs UCF Jeremiah Martin (Memphis) shot 9-25 Shawn Alston (Temple) shot 11-31 28-87 (32%) for the 3 best perimeter scores in the league vs UCF Jahmal McMurray (SMU) shot 3-17 and was 0-3 before he got injured in their 2nd game Caleb Daniels (Tulane) was 3-12 Jalen Adams (UCONN) was 11-32 17-71 (24%) vs 4-6 Obviously not all of that is him, but he would have been the primary defender on all of those cats. Kid plays excellent defense, can run a team, and doesn't turn the ball over. There's always minutes for a guy like that imo.. Exactly right, good defense is played as a team ... I don't care about what he's doing or not doing in Kenner, I just wonder how much impact he'll have on a team that was dysfunctional team wise defensively last season... Especially given that he's only a little better than Jagan defensively numbers wise... Allens PPP stat last season was 0.667, Jagans was 0.826 that's a 0.159 difference. I'm not a stats wizard but that seems pretty close... Defense is played by the team, but the individual do matter. You can't say too much is being made of the Duke game and respond to a stat showing the top 6 players in the league shot below 30% combined vs the kid and dismiss it as just good team defense. He and BJ Taylor were putting the clamps on guys all year. The Duke game kind of just let the world in on the secret. They were good as a team but he was very good individually. The 0.159 difference is basically very good vs elite. 67 pt's per 100 possessions vs 83. Considering how many games end up being decided by a basket here or there I think it's significant even though an average game will get around 60-80 possessions per team. I see no reason why him and Jagan can't play together, so it's not a competition imo. It just allows you to put 2 very good defenders in the game at the same time on certain possessions vs 1. And he can manage the game/run a team.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jul 15, 2019 11:33:08 GMT -5
What is this Jagan Vs Allen conversation anyways? They don't even play the same position and we have no back-up point guards behind Akinjo. We need another player who can dribble on the roster besides Akinjo. Forget defense, if he can do that much he is an upgrade over the current 0 point guards we have on our bench anyways. If we are putting players in a position to succeed, Mosley should never be a back-up for Akinjo. This will be good for Mosley as well.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jul 15, 2019 11:36:32 GMT -5
Exactly right, good defense is played as a team ... I don't care about what he's doing or not doing in Kenner, I just wonder how much impact he'll have on a team that was dysfunctional team wise defensively last season... Especially given that he's only a little better than Jagan defensively numbers wise... Allens PPP stat last season was 0.667, Jagans was 0.826 that's a 0.159 difference. I'm not a stats wizard but that seems pretty close... Defense is played by the team, but the individual do matter. You can't say too much is being made of the Duke game and respond to a stat showing the top 6 players in the league shot below 30% combined vs the kid and dismiss it as just good team defense. He and BJ Taylor were putting the clamps on guys all year. The Duke game kind of just let the world in on the secret. I like having Allen to throw at Duke in November at MSG. For Coach K, It will be like deja vu all over again.
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