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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 12:54:41 GMT -5
Well part of the reason Allen is successful is because he's playing with kids that have been in the program a while imo. You still need to build a culture. There's also no guarantee that you land one of those kids same as a HS recruit. You don't need to land top 40 kids to be successful. There's no reason why Georgetown can't land top 150 kids and develop them. Then when you sprinkle in a team guy like Allen it's more successful. My takeaway is that Allen's experience really is the culture - he's successful because he's got a lot of D1 college basketball experience under his belt. There's only three kids (Pickett, Blair, Jagan) that have more than one year of our program under the belt - and that's including walkons. There's not a lot of ingrained Georgetown winning experience that he's interacting with. Yurt and Mac have had a full year to learn the system and coach. That's enough time to know how he wants things done here. I get what you're saying, but we need to explore all options imo. Sometimes grad transfers work out like Allen, and sometimes they don't like Pipkins (Providence). Knocks on wood.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 19, 2019 14:02:29 GMT -5
I think part of this situation is that Allen and Mosely 'fit' well with a high usage, versatile scorer like Mac. They can be complementary pieces to Mac's primary role. And when all 3 'do their thing', it is awesome to watch. Without Mac, this experiment might not be working as well as it is. Exactly. It's all about the pieces being complementary. Part of the reason Allen has been so good for us is that he can create opportunities for other guys like McClung, Blair, Yurtseven, etc. Without those guys, we'd be looking at a much different situation. For the most part, Allen's stats make him look fairly consistent over the years. What is amazing to me is that pre-transfer, Allen's O rating was 68, whereas now it is 110.1, meaning it's actually way above that in the last 4 games. The kid has been really spectacular. Also, Allen doesn't take a lot of twos, but when he does he has been extremely efficient. He's 16-25 from two (.640), whereas the best he ever was on twos was last year at 44.3%. His shot selection has been good. His threes are only 3-11, but I think we will see that come up a bit too. For guys like Allen, keep in mind they get the benefit of a fifth year to develop, even if it's the result of an injury. That's a huge benefit of the graduate transfers, but as Yaboy noted, you can't guarantee you're going to get a guy like that every season, so while they're great pieces to a team, you can't assume you'll have a guy like that on the roster. And not all graduate transfers work out so well, like Trey Dickerson, who seems like a phenomenal guy, but wasn't on the same level on court as Allen or Pryor.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 19, 2019 14:10:43 GMT -5
But wasn't Dickerson a more desperate late addition for Ewing once he got the job?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 19, 2019 14:18:25 GMT -5
True to a point😉 But if you recruit him at 18 and develop him, he may not be ready as a freshman, but you get at least a couple of very good years from him as an upperclassman, not just one. Of course if it was easy to identify one- and two-star kids who will develop into Terrell, everyone would do it (well except maybe the blue bloods) So you're basically saying we should have signed Sherwyn Devonnish or Ayinde Hikim? It's crazy hard to find one or two star kids who will translate day one into the Big East as 18 year olds, we cannot recruit the 4* guards, and then on top of that you have to wonder whether the freshman will stick, and whether they can acclimate to college, and whether they'll fit in the program. Terrell Allen himself transferred out of Drexel after his freshman year. What's not hard is envisioning how a 22-year-old who has started elsewhere in D1 would translate into a Big East program, and you get the maturity benefits off the court of having someone that has survived college elsewhere already. That is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that ideally you have a guy for more than one year, because there will not always be a fifth year guard like Terrell out there - but of course with lower rated kids it is pretty much impossible to identify at age 18 which ones could develop into Allen in his fifth (or even fourth)season.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Dec 19, 2019 15:22:41 GMT -5
Lots of interesting points. Here is one more, straight from Ewing. On more than once occasion, he has mentioned that Allen played for Johnny Dawkins. The implication being, he learned a lot from a former National College POY. who also played in the NBA for 10-12 seasons. Dawkins is a DC guy originally. Just as Yurtseven came to GU with a lot of skill and accomplishment, but still is learning a lot under Patrick.. same thing applies to Allen going to UCF and Dawkins.
Don't we all know the odds of getting a grad transfer as good as Allen each year are really long. Hoyas have to pursue as many avenues and players as they can... and it seems like they have been. However their effort in the DMV is either not strong enough, not enough presence, or just not working... at least not yet.
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 19, 2019 15:26:03 GMT -5
And not all graduate transfers work out so well, like Trey Dickerson, who seems like a phenomenal guy, but wasn't on the same level on court as Allen or Pryor. I think MCI is right on this one. Dickerson's per-40 stats at South Dakota are pretty similar to what he did at Georgetown. I don't think that's a case of not knowing what you are going to get with grad transfers - I think that's just a case that there were a ton of spots to fill late that year.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 19, 2019 18:14:55 GMT -5
And not all graduate transfers work out so well, like Trey Dickerson, who seems like a phenomenal guy, but wasn't on the same level on court as Allen or Pryor. I think MCI is right on this one. Dickerson's per-40 stats at South Dakota are pretty similar to what he did at Georgetown. I don't think that's a case of not knowing what you are going to get with grad transfers - I think that's just a case that there were a ton of spots to fill late that year. The point is that getting high quality transfers is not something that can be banked on. It's certainly something that the staff should try to do, but keep in mind there are hundreds of other D-1 programs trying to fill gaps the same way. We have been lucky to get very good players like Allen and Pryor. If your point is that it's harder to get a graduate transfer when you've just been hired (like Ewing), then I totally agree. I am not criticizing Ewing or Dickerson; just illustrating that we cannot rely on graduate transfers or getting one of the same quality as Allen. Don't forget Allen was one of the best individual defenders last year, too. While graduate transfers are becoming increasingly common, it's still less common for really good players to do it.
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Eurostar
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Post by Eurostar on Dec 28, 2019 16:59:48 GMT -5
Let me just say that I would take a senior Terrell Allen as my Georgetown point guard for 100 straight years if possible. Really a fantastic and smart offensive and defensive player. We should be looking for future PGs in his mold in high school or the transfer market.
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Dec 28, 2019 17:08:29 GMT -5
Let me just say that I would take a senior Terrell Allen as my Georgetown point guard for 100 straight years if possible. Really a fantastic and smart offensive and defensive player. We should be looking for future PGs in his mold in high school or the transfer market. I agree but I confess I wasn't astute enough to see it when he was in a reserve role.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 28, 2019 17:12:37 GMT -5
Let me just say that I would take a senior Terrell Allen as my Georgetown point guard for 100 straight years if possible. Really a fantastic and smart offensive and defensive player. We should be looking for future PGs in his mold in high school or the transfer market. I agree but I confess I wasn't astute enough to see it when he was in a reserve role. Allen didn't play this way prior to the roster turnover...
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Dec 28, 2019 18:50:54 GMT -5
Allen really stepped up today. He looked for his shot more because we needed the extra offense, and his defense/transition offense in the second half helped blow the game open. this is the purest point guard play we have had in a very long time.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Dec 28, 2019 20:21:05 GMT -5
I think part of this situation is that Allen and Mosely 'fit' well with a high usage, versatile scorer like Mac. They can be complementary pieces to Mac's primary role. And when all 3 'do their thing', it is awesome to watch. Without Mac, this experiment might not be working as well as it is. This team would be just fine without Mac as long as there was a reasonable replacement for instance someone just as good as Blair. Mac is playing good but he’s not that big of a part of this run and surely nowhere in the stratosphere of Allen and Yurt. Allen is irreplaceable for us except by very few players on the county. It’s his mentality that sets him apart not his skill. It’s tough to find those guys in this era. You can win in college without superstars. This isn’t the NBA. You need quality older players that play team basketball.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Dec 28, 2019 20:56:53 GMT -5
I think part of this situation is that Allen and Mosely 'fit' well with a high usage, versatile scorer like Mac. They can be complementary pieces to Mac's primary role. And when all 3 'do their thing', it is awesome to watch. Without Mac, this experiment might not be working as well as it is. This team would be just fine without Mac as long as there was a reasonable replacement for instance someone just as good as Blair. Mac is playing good but he’s not that big of a part of this run and surely nowhere in the stratosphere of Allen and Yurt. Allen is irreplaceable for us except by very few players on the county. It’s his mentality that sets him apart not his skill. It’s tough to find those guys in this era. You can win in college without superstars. This isn’t the NBA. You need quality older players that play team basketball. Just because we cruised today after Mac left let's not kid ourselves into thinking that we can finish with a winning BE record without him. Especially against the top BE teams we will need big performances from him. And don't ever mention Blair and Mac in the same breath.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 28, 2019 21:52:13 GMT -5
Mac has been BE player of the week twice and you continue to be dismissive. You clearly have it out for him. The kid will play in the NBA one day.
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BeantownHoya
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Post by BeantownHoya on Dec 28, 2019 22:39:32 GMT -5
I think part of this situation is that Allen and Mosely 'fit' well with a high usage, versatile scorer like Mac. They can be complementary pieces to Mac's primary role. And when all 3 'do their thing', it is awesome to watch. Without Mac, this experiment might not be working as well as it is. This team would be just fine without Mac as long as there was a reasonable replacement for instance someone just as good as Blair. Mac is playing good but he’s not that big of a part of this run and surely nowhere in the stratosphere of Allen and Yurt. Allen is irreplaceable for us except by very few players on the county. It’s his mentality that sets him apart not his skill. It’s tough to find those guys in this era. You can win in college without superstars. This isn’t the NBA. You need quality older players that play team basketball. You sir have just embarrassed yourself...what a silly post...I guess if you were looking to say something ridiculous and get responses you have accomplished that. I have no problem if someone wants to argue that Allen and Yurt have been the two most critical pieces to this run...sure I guess reasonable...to say Mac has not been an important piece of this 6 game win streak is asinine and then to punctuate that point by saying "someone" like Blair is equally comparable and would bring the same value means either you know nothing about basketball, despise McClung or simply can't admit that you were probably wrong about the kid. This is also coming from someone (meaning me) that was very critical of McClung last year. Keep killing them Mac!
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Dec 28, 2019 22:40:25 GMT -5
I think part of this situation is that Allen and Mosely 'fit' well with a high usage, versatile scorer like Mac. They can be complementary pieces to Mac's primary role. And when all 3 'do their thing', it is awesome to watch. Without Mac, this experiment might not be working as well as it is. This team would be just fine without Mac as long as there was a reasonable replacement for instance someone just as good as Blair. Mac is playing good but he’s not that big of a part of this run and surely nowhere in the stratosphere of Allen and Yurt. Allen is irreplaceable for us except by very few players on the county. It’s his mentality that sets him apart not his skill. It’s tough to find those guys in this era. You can win in college without superstars. This isn’t the NBA. You need quality older players that play team basketball. I knew whose post this was before I looked at the author. You are so clearly wrong about both Yurt and Mac that it brings to mind a famous line from my favorite show: “You know nothing...”
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BeantownHoya
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Post by BeantownHoya on Dec 31, 2019 17:54:19 GMT -5
I think part of this situation is that Allen and Mosely 'fit' well with a high usage, versatile scorer like Mac. They can be complementary pieces to Mac's primary role. And when all 3 'do their thing', it is awesome to watch. Without Mac, this experiment might not be working as well as it is. This team would be just fine without Mac as long as there was a reasonable replacement for instance someone just as good as Blair. Mac is playing good but he’s not that big of a part of this run and surely nowhere in the stratosphere of Allen and Yurt. Allen is irreplaceable for us except by very few players on the county. It’s his mentality that sets him apart not his skill. It’s tough to find those guys in this era. You can win in college without superstars. This isn’t the NBA. You need quality older players that play team basketball. This is aging well...
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Post by cgallstar02 on Dec 31, 2019 20:47:21 GMT -5
This team would be just fine without Mac as long as there was a reasonable replacement for instance someone just as good as Blair. Mac is playing good but he’s not that big of a part of this run and surely nowhere in the stratosphere of Allen and Yurt. Allen is irreplaceable for us except by very few players on the county. It’s his mentality that sets him apart not his skill. It’s tough to find those guys in this era. You can win in college without superstars. This isn’t the NBA. You need quality older players that play team basketball. This is aging well... Should it be any surprise? I mean pretty much every one of his hottest takes has blown up in his face. Guess he's still upset we didn't get Jordan McCabe instead of Mac... I mean we could really use his 3 points on 22% from the field and 12% from 3 vs what Mac gives us. At this point I'm not sure if he's just trolling and trying to get a reaction or if he actually believes all the drivel he's spewing. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knew how important Mac was to this team and their 6 game run. Ball movement will only get you so far, even at the college level. There's a reason the Ivy League doesn't dominate the top 25 rankings. Every team needs at least one shot creator... someone who can create for themselves and others. Without Mac, and the transfer of JA, we don't have that. I love Allen and what he brings, but he can't create shots for himself and others the way Mac or even JA could. Mac is the perfect compliment to Allen and vice versa. The Blair comparison is laughable. Blair is an excellent 3 point shooter when he's open, sadly his skill set stops there. His ability to put the ball on the floor and create is one of the worst I've seen from a Big East level guard. If the full roster from the beginning of the season was still here, then yes swapping Mac with Blair wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal, as there was other guys that can give you similar things as Mac. However, with the current roster, Mac is truly irreplaceable... probably even more so than Yurt or Allen. Wahab isn't nearly as polished as Yurt yet, but can at least do similar things, likewise with a Mosely for Allen swap. Another aspect of Mac's game that people are underestimating or ignoring that doesn't show up in a boxscore is his ability to draw double teams on the perimeter, which of course gives everyone else better looks at the basket. That was something that was clearly missed in today's game. Beyond that, he's also I would say our most energetic/intense player, which I think the other guys feed off. Ultimately we have 7 guys with very defined roles: Allen the pass first, defensive minded PG. Mac, the pure scorer who is a dynamic playmaker/athlete that can both shoot and drive. Mosely, the ultimate role player who defends well, makes the extra pass, can handle the ball some, and hit open shots when needed. Pickett the 3 and D guy. Yurt, the dominant big man down low that can score and rebound at a high level. Blair, a 3 point specialist off the bench. Wahab, a young, talented big off the bench. Combined I feel like the 7 of them give you just about everything you could want, lose one, and things become much harder.
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Post by HometownHoya on Jan 9, 2020 11:09:55 GMT -5
Another great game from Terrell on both ends of the ball: 16pts, 3 reb, 4 assists, 5! steals. We're lucky we got this guy and he got the opportunity to become our floor general.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Jan 9, 2020 11:33:58 GMT -5
Allen was great last night. He decision making was excellent. St. John's was mostly playing him to pass when he drove, so he used his collection of floaters and mid range stuff to put up points. And he was rock solid from the foul line - those points really helped keep St. John's momentum from building up when we started missing a lot of shots in the second half.
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