prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 24, 2019 10:12:46 GMT -5
5 minutes. Ideally, Yurt plays 25-30 minutes a game hard. Qudus plays 10-15 minutes a game with the foul trouble that freshman bigs are prone to have. And the 3rd gets 0-5 a game and maybe more when he shows he is having a good game. I agree with that for the most part. I guess it just boils down to a we've got more bigs, so we've got the freedom to play harder inside argument -- which I don't think really applies. My guess is that we'll want Omer on the floor as much as possible. He won't be shackled by we can't afford any fouls on you, like Marcus & Jessie were last year... but I also don't think it lets him play any more aggressively on the defensive end than he normally would. It's still just 3 unproven FR bigs behind him. I agree. So many questions for next year’s team! What hasn’t been mentioned is that, if the situation calls for it, we can go “small” with Josh at the 5, Pickett at 4, Galen at 3 and Mackinjo (or Jagan in for one of them). But, we will be very unlucky if one of Qudus/Tim/Malcolm/Carter is not ready to provide backup. I think that Qudus and Tim will be ready, Malcolm will redshirt and Carter will be rotated in the frontcourt.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 24, 2019 10:34:41 GMT -5
5 minutes. Ideally, Yurt plays 25-30 minutes a game hard. Qudus plays 10-15 minutes a game with the foul trouble that freshman bigs are prone to have. And the 3rd gets 0-5 a game and maybe more when he shows he is having a good game. I agree with that for the most part. I guess it just boils down to a we've got more bigs, so we've got the freedom to play harder inside argument -- which I don't think really applies. My guess is that we'll want Omer on the floor as much as possible. He won't be shackled by we can't afford any fouls on you, like Marcus & Jessie were last year... but I also don't think it lets him play any more aggressively on the defensive end than he normally would. It's still just 3 unproven FR bigs behind him. I think you contradict yourself. He won’t be shackled by the ‘we can’t afford any fouls on you’ which causes passive interior defense...which means he can play more aggressively.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 24, 2019 10:45:35 GMT -5
Ewing almost has a full roster of "his" guys. Moseley is the lone non-Ewing recruit. Looking at JTIII's first class, he got a pass for the THornton, Sapp, Guibunda, Egerson, Spann class. I think the same has to be done for the Blair, Pickett, Walker, Sodom class. Two guys are left in that group and provide meaningful production. Sapp is the only one who really provided that in his class (and yes I know JTIII's first class was really the Green/Hibbert group but those were Esh recruits outside of Wallace).
The '20 class has to have some higher profile guys in the 20 to 80 range which is where we should be consistently recruiting. Lastly, I think it is foolish to expect much of the freshman bigs. I would expect more out of Carter with hopefully some added strength then I would with Timothy who has played the game only a few years and Qudus who I think we all are high on but still is a freshman big who will get pushed around by upperclassmen.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Apr 24, 2019 10:57:22 GMT -5
Oh, so now you know how he’ll perform as a Hoya? Or is it that youre ASSuming that people only think he can play 4 because of his jumper? His jumper is just one of the qualities that makes him a good offensive player. It’s probably not even in his top 3 strengths... FYI Dakari Johnson is the worst example. So is WCS. Also, height doesn’t determine skill set, in case you haven’t been paying attention to basketball the last 10 years.... Solid commentary. You're a credit to the board. If you’re afraid to engage in meaningful dialogue because you realize your arguments are based in certain subjective assumptions, then feel free to ignore. Trying to be clever and throw quips around is literally useless.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 11:03:40 GMT -5
I agree with that for the most part. I guess it just boils down to a we've got more bigs, so we've got the freedom to play harder inside argument -- which I don't think really applies. My guess is that we'll want Omer on the floor as much as possible. He won't be shackled by we can't afford any fouls on you, like Marcus & Jessie were last year... but I also don't think it lets him play any more aggressively on the defensive end than he normally would. It's still just 3 unproven FR bigs behind him. I think you contradict yourself. He won’t be shackled by the ‘we can’t afford any fouls on you’ which causes passive interior defense...which means he can play more aggressively. It means Jessie & Marcus had to play conservatively on the defensive end, with absolutely no one to back them up. Omer can just be himself -- he'll have (hopefully) a decent backup or two. But aside from playing his normal game, there's no need for him to play any more aggressively than that (which is my commentary about your point #1 from the original post). That's all I'm saying.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 11:16:43 GMT -5
Solid commentary. You're a credit to the board. The inability of some on here to engage in meaningful dialogue still perplexes me. Conversations around here used to have a little more substance, but now people get so offended if their opinions receive push back. Really, good stuff. I mean, I know people hate being wrong, but ignoring valid points won’t make them disappear. Oh, so now you know how he’ll perform as a Hoya? Or is it that youre ASSuming that people only think he can play 4 because of his jumper? His jumper is just one of the qualities that makes him a good offensive player. It’s probably not even in his top 3 strengths... FYI Dakari Johnson is the worst example. So is WCS. Also, height doesn’t determine skill set, in case you haven’t been paying attention to basketball the last 10 years....1) You didn't respond to any of the specific points I discussed. 2) You made a ham-handed joke about assuming and capitalized ASS -- as if there isn't anyone over the age of 7 who doesn't know the joke. 3) "Dakari Johnson is the worst example" Of what, specifically? 4) "So is WCS." I though Dakari Johnson was the worst...? 5) I mentioned those big combos b/c they were All-American level talents who all deserved court time - together when necessary. We don't have that. If Jessie & Omer played together, maybe that would've been the case. 6) "Height doesn't determine skill set". Yes it does. How many 7' point guards are there? How many 6' post-up centers are there? Players are getting taller and more skilled all the time. That doesn't mean that Ben Simmons and Giannis grow on trees. Playing too small or too big ends with predictable results. 7) "in case you haven't been paying attention to basketball the last 10 years". What adult would ever write this? Meaningful dialogue? GMAFB
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 24, 2019 11:51:39 GMT -5
I think you contradict yourself. He won’t be shackled by the ‘we can’t afford any fouls on you’ which causes passive interior defense...which means he can play more aggressively. It means Jessie & Marcus had to play conservatively on the defensive end, with absolutely no one to back them up. Omer can just be himself -- he'll have (hopefully) a decent backup or two. But aside from playing his normal game, there's no need for him to play any more aggressively than that (which is my commentary about your point #1 from the original post). That's all I'm saying. I just don't think the situation is all that different than in the past, especially when you consider the "decent backups" are pretty unproven, and often get few minutes. 2016: Govan/Derrickson had "backup" in Hayes/Mourning (I say that realizing Hayes started, it doesn't matter, just trying to prove a point) 2017: Govan/Derrickson had "backup" in Hayes/Mourning/Agau. 2018: Govan/Derrickson had "backup" in Walker/Sodom. 2019: Govan had "backup" in Mourning/Carter. So really, having Wahab and Ighoefe/Wilson on the roster isn't very different from these previous years, especially when you consider either Ighoefe or Wilson will likely get almost no minutes, just as Walker/Sodom/Carter didn't. If Yurtseven is nearly as good as people say (and I think he probably is), my guess is he will play a ton of minutes, with the backups getting very little. When you have someone who is as good as Yurtseven probably is, you can't afford to have them sitting on the bench with foul trouble just because you're trying to play hard defense. Texas Tech had the #1 defense in the country, and they also didn't foul much. That's what we need.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Apr 24, 2019 12:14:46 GMT -5
The inability of some on here to engage in meaningful dialogue still perplexes me. Conversations around here used to have a little more substance, but now people get so offended if their opinions receive push back. Really, good stuff. I mean, I know people hate being wrong, but ignoring valid points won’t make them disappear. Oh, so now you know how he’ll perform as a Hoya? Or is it that youre ASSuming that people only think he can play 4 because of his jumper? His jumper is just one of the qualities that makes him a good offensive player. It’s probably not even in his top 3 strengths... FYI Dakari Johnson is the worst example. So is WCS. Also, height doesn’t determine skill set, in case you haven’t been paying attention to basketball the last 10 years....1) You didn't respond to any of the specific points I discussed. 2) You made a ham-handed joke about assuming and capitalized ASS -- as if there isn't anyone over the age of 7 who doesn't know the joke. 3) "Dakari Johnson is the worst example" Of what, specifically? 4) "So is WCS." I though Dakari Johnson was the worst...? 5) I mentioned those big combos b/c they were All-American level talents who all deserved court time - together when necessary. We don't have that. If Jessie & Omer played together, maybe that would've been the case. 6) "Height doesn't determine skill set". Yes it does. How many 7' point guards are there? How many 6' post-up centers are there? Players are getting taller and more skilled all the time. That doesn't mean that Ben Simmons and Giannis grow on trees. Playing too small or too big ends with predictable results. 7) "in case you haven't been paying attention to basketball the last 10 years". What adult would ever write this? Meaningful dialogue? GMAFB 1) I shouldn’t be required to respond to every single one of your points to address parts of your post, especially when they deal with separate issues and what I'm responding to isn't really properly justified. Words have to have meaning. 2) I wasn’t making a joke. I was referring to the risks of making improper assumptions. Assuming that posters can see Omer playing the 4 just because of his jump shot is very narrow way to look at it. Now if you were simply doing a thought experiment, my mistake. It didn’t really read that way though. There are more factors involved in being a good PF than simply having a jumper. In fact, when applying it to the college game, PFs even have a broader set of roles and responsibilities they can fill. Basketball is about matchups. Sure he likely would struggle to guard a LeBlanc at the 4, but a) that’s assuming the extremes, b) that’s assuming the disadvantages can’t be reasonably mitigated, and c) that doesn’t seem to take into account that that 6’7 PF has to defend Omer on the other side of ge floor. Omer is an NBA prospect because of his combination of strength, smarts, and good feet. I don’t see any value in placing limits on what he might be able to accomplish considering he hasn’t played in quite some time and his past performance is just that - in the past. And his past performances certainly don’t provide a basis to say definitively he can’t adapt to minutes at the 4. Often the biggest difference between a 4 and a 5 in college is between the ears. Also, the “too much height pretty much ensures....” line is a generality. We’re specifically talking about Omer Yurtseven. Not to mention the line that follows it about Jessie isn’t even true. Dude has a great back to the basket package, the problem is his jumper was also so good it served as a crutch. Make no mistake about it, Jessie would fill out other parts of his game if he solely played in the post. 3) I guess I misunderstood your point in your last sentence, not sure what those examples have to do with Omer’s actual ability to play the 4 or 5. 4) It was clearly for effect. Why be deliberately obtuse about it? Like to quibble much? That’s what I mean when I say every single part of every single post doesn’t need to be broken down. I prefer to focus on the parts without basis. 5) it’s about fit. Again, we’re taking about the actual Hoyas roster. I still don’t get your point because we have 4 bigs next year who will be suiting up for the Hoyas for the first time. How those pieces fit together is all speculative at this point. Regardless, I don’t think Omers actual ability to play the 4 has anything to do with how we balance the frontcourt. The post you were responding to was discussing his ability to, not the likelihood that he will. But even to your point, you’re basically saying to couldn’t slot a different big at the 5 while Omer is playing the floor, which based off of his slillset I don’t think is true. 6) Hahahhaha agree to disagree, but I wish I had seen this listed first because I wouldn’t have wasted so much time... 7) an adult speaking to an adult who not only deflected from having the initial conversation, but also one who believes the height of a player determines what position they’ll play. But I guess you have your beliefs...
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Post by gatormcclusky on Apr 24, 2019 12:58:20 GMT -5
Fouls are bad, whether or not anyone gets into foul trouble. Allowing the other team to shoot free throws hurts both defensive and offensive efficiency (because it's harder to score when the defense is set). Absolutely right. While I certainly hope to see defensive improvement all around, I truly think way too much emphasis has been at center, without recognizing that we need serious improvement from everybody else or it won't matter. Rim protection only goes so far, especially in the modern game when threes are so abundant. But our guards, especially, were putrid on offense this season, and if the defense outside doesn't improve, it won't matter. it's true that our guards need to improve a lot defensively, but better rim protection helps in all aspects of perimeter defense. Everybody's going to get beat off the dribble from time to time when defending out high, no matter how good they are at it, and it's way easier to play up tight on your man outside and deny their shots when you know there's going to be effective help behind you if the guy gets past. Unfortunately the help rotation wasn't there consistently enough this past season, but if that gets better with the new guys coming in, then that's gonna help the outside defense be better too.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 28, 2019 8:22:59 GMT -5
Qudus’ monster all-star game illustrates how much our roster will be different next year with depth. It will be interesting to see how Ewing puts the pieces together
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kettlehill
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Post by kettlehill on Apr 28, 2019 9:36:23 GMT -5
We know from this year that Pat might like a two unit approach, maybe along the lines of: Yurt7 Josh Galen or Pickett Mac Akinjo And
Q Myron Galen/Pickett Mosely/Blair Terrell
Imagine the practices! Pat has really built a fine team ( on paper).
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 28, 2019 13:39:03 GMT -5
The original post in this thread was pretty good. The rest of it...
1. Yurt isn't playing PF much. Even if he plays with someone like Q, Q is more mobile and is likely to guard the smaller player. There's a reason why going small almost always beats going big -- zone defense, the rise of the three pointer, and the fact that few teams have TWO strong post players on the floor at the same time. It's so much easier to punish a slow defender than a short defender in basketball these days.
2. If you are a competent defensive team, there's no upside to hack a shaq unless the opposing team has a player shooting like 40%. It's not relevant.
3. It's totally reasonable to question whether we really have depth. We get excited and assume that all our new players will be awesome every year. And we're usually wrong. But, it's worth noting that the sheer quantity of players coming in is huge; that several of are incoming players like Yurt, Galen and Terell are proven at some level beyond high school.
4. It's also worth highlighting the general shift in style and athleticism in players coming than going out. That goes several ways, but there's not doubt the defensive potential of the incoming players is significantly higher, and the cascade that OP had IS true -- better interior defense leads to better exterior defense and that can lead to more turnovers forced and fast breaks.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Apr 28, 2019 15:13:22 GMT -5
Omer is slow? Since when?
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Post by CountAardvark on Apr 28, 2019 17:32:07 GMT -5
I'd be interesting in starting Qudus at the 4 (if he's as good as he looks) and Omer at 5. Then have Pickett backing up Qudus and Tim backing up Omer. My speculative depth chart looks like this:
PG: Akinjo/Allen SG: McClung/Blair/Mosely SF: LeBlanc/Gardner PF: Wahab/Pickett/Carter C: Yurtseven/Ighoefe/Wilson
Thoughts? Honestly I'm very impressed with how Ewing's put this team together. Lot of depth and versatility.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 28, 2019 17:58:47 GMT -5
I'd be interesting in starting Qudus at the 4 (if he's as good as he looks) and Omer at 5. Then have Pickett backing up Qudus and Tim backing up Omer. My speculative depth chart looks like this: PG: Akinjo/Allen SG: McClung/Blair/Mosely SF: LeBlanc/Gardner PF: Wahab/Pickett/Carter C: Yurtseven/Ighoefe/Wilson Thoughts? Honestly I'm very impressed with how Ewing's put this team together. Lot of depth and versatility. I think Patrick would love to play big -- he tried Govan and Mourning together early in the season this year. I think by far our most effective lineups will not be big -- they will have LeBlanc paired with another wing -- whether Pickett, Gardner or Alexander -- as the two forwards. How much we see a "real" PF out there with Yurt is probably largely dependent on how many of the freshmen (and Carter) are prepared to play. Out of Q, Ighoefe, Carter and Wilson, is one good enough to break into the rotation? Two? More than that? If it is one, then the younger players will be Yurt's backup primarily. If two, then I think we go big a bit, but less than 50%. But I could be underestimating Qudus, who seems the most likely to outplay the wings on the roster to grab a spot.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 28, 2019 18:02:45 GMT -5
I'd be interesting in starting Qudus at the 4 (if he's as good as he looks) and Omer at 5. Then have Pickett backing up Qudus and Tim backing up Omer. My speculative depth chart looks like this: PG: Akinjo/Allen SG: McClung/Blair/Mosely SF: LeBlanc/Gardner PF: Wahab/Pickett/Carter C: Yurtseven/Ighoefe/Wilson Thoughts? Honestly I'm very impressed with how Ewing's put this team together. Lot of depth and versatility. It is an experiment that is worth conducting starting in practice. It may not be viable in reality. I am not sure that either have the lateral mobility to stay in front of an athlete like Leblanc.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 28, 2019 18:55:45 GMT -5
I'd be interesting in starting Qudus at the 4 (if he's as good as he looks) and Omer at 5. Then have Pickett backing up Qudus and Tim backing up Omer. My speculative depth chart looks like this: PG: Akinjo/Allen SG: McClung/Blair/Mosely SF: LeBlanc/Gardner PF: Wahab/Pickett/Carter C: Yurtseven/Ighoefe/Wilson Thoughts? Honestly I'm very impressed with how Ewing's put this team together. Lot of depth and versatility. Alexander?
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Apr 28, 2019 19:28:13 GMT -5
I'd be interesting in starting Qudus at the 4 (if he's as good as he looks) and Omer at 5. Then have Pickett backing up Qudus and Tim backing up Omer. My speculative depth chart looks like this: PG: Akinjo/Allen SG: McClung/Blair/Mosely SF: LeBlanc/Gardner PF: Wahab/Pickett/Carter C: Yurtseven/Ighoefe/Wilson Thoughts? Honestly I'm very impressed with how Ewing's put this team together. Lot of depth and versatility. I think Patrick would love to play big -- he tried Govan and Mourning together early in the season this year. I think by far our most effective lineups will not be big -- they will have LeBlanc paired with another wing -- whether Pickett, Gardner or Alexander -- as the two forwards. How much we see a "real" PF out there with Yurt is probably largely dependent on how many of the freshmen (and Carter) are prepared to play. Out of Q, Ighoefe, Carter and Wilson, is one good enough to break into the rotation? Two? More than that? If it is one, then the younger players will be Yurt's backup primarily. If two, then I think we go big a bit, but less than 50%. But I could be underestimating Qudus, who seems the most likely to outplay the wings on the roster to grab a spot. Completely agree and I think that will be the most interesting story this year. There are 9 players essentially I think most of us can't imagine not being in the rotation. But...what about the 4? Two wings? Two centers? One Grayson? After LeBlanc those minutes are up for grabs and the looks are completely different depending on who we go with. The hope is of course, its "all of the above" depending on matchup.
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Post by CountAardvark on Apr 28, 2019 23:01:13 GMT -5
I'd be interesting in starting Qudus at the 4 (if he's as good as he looks) and Omer at 5. Then have Pickett backing up Qudus and Tim backing up Omer. My speculative depth chart looks like this: PG: Akinjo/Allen SG: McClung/Blair/Mosely SF: LeBlanc/Gardner PF: Wahab/Pickett/Carter C: Yurtseven/Ighoefe/Wilson Thoughts? Honestly I'm very impressed with how Ewing's put this team together. Lot of depth and versatility. Alexander? Forgot about him. He'd be a third stringer at SF behind LeBlanc and Gardner I think. Man we're deep.
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Post by theboardkatt on Apr 28, 2019 23:09:49 GMT -5
Really? Was under the impression JUCO Alexander is pretty experienced and would be commanding a lot of time at the 3 (vs. Pickett) as opposed to taking the backseat to Gardner
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