Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2019 14:09:22 GMT -5
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 8, 2019 17:05:58 GMT -5
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 8, 2019 20:03:46 GMT -5
Believe Wofford is now available. Might be a solid candidate there if they don't mind going the retread route.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 8, 2019 22:52:01 GMT -5
Unless UCLA raids another Power 5+ school, I'm not sure that any of the remaining open coaching positions would be all that attractive to JT3.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Apr 8, 2019 23:11:44 GMT -5
There clearly is not much of a market for JTIII, at least at the major conference level. It is too bad, but it seems like he may not get another shot as a head coach. It is always ugly when a coach gets fired, but there was something distinctively unpleasant about the end of the JTIII era. Being labeled as a Princeton offense guy is probably really hurting him. Unless he is willing to go to someplace like an Ivy/Patriot league school, it may be tough for him to get back.
Van Gundy has been very positive about his contributions to the USA basketball team he assisted on this year. Maybe his best shot would be as an NBA assistant. Many NBA teams run modernized Princeton principles. He may well have to take an assistant job at either the NBA or college level to get back into the coaching game.
He is nothing special as a broadcaster, although he would probably improve a lot with more experience. But broadcasting may end up being his best long term option.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Apr 9, 2019 6:30:43 GMT -5
There clearly is not much of a market for JTIII, at least at the major conference level. It is too bad, but it seems like he may not get another shot as a head coach. It is always ugly when a coach gets fired, but there was something distinctively unpleasant about the end of the JTIII era. Being labeled as a Princeton offense guy is probably really hurting him. Unless he is willing to go to someplace like an Ivy/Patriot league school, it may be tough for him to get back. Van Gundy has been very positive about his contributions to the USA basketball team he assisted on this year. Maybe his best shot would be as an NBA assistant. Many NBA teams run modernized Princeton principles. He may well have to take an assistant job at either the NBA or college level to get back into the coaching game. He is nothing special as a broadcaster, although he would probably improve a lot with more experience. But broadcasting may end up being his best long term option. To your point about his exit, fair or unfair the perception is that you really have to suck to be Big John’s son and get canned at Georgetown.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Apr 9, 2019 7:27:54 GMT -5
There clearly is not much of a market for JTIII, at least at the major conference level. It is too bad, but it seems like he may not get another shot as a head coach. It is always ugly when a coach gets fired, but there was something distinctively unpleasant about the end of the JTIII era. Being labeled as a Princeton offense guy is probably really hurting him. Unless he is willing to go to someplace like an Ivy/Patriot league school, it may be tough for him to get back. Van Gundy has been very positive about his contributions to the USA basketball team he assisted on this year. Maybe his best shot would be as an NBA assistant. Many NBA teams run modernized Princeton principles. He may well have to take an assistant job at either the NBA or college level to get back into the coaching game. He is nothing special as a broadcaster, although he would probably improve a lot with more experience. But broadcasting may end up being his best long term option. To your point about his exit, fair or unfair the perception is that you really have to suck to be Big John’s son and get canned at Georgetown. I had never thought about it from quite that perspective! Lots of coaches get fired when things go badly, but how many of those programs have a life-size statue of the fired coach's dad in the lobby of their practice facility? I guess Joey Meyer is the closest comparison, and he never worked as a HC after DePaul. I looked up Meyer's record - a lot of similarities to JTIII. He made the tournament in 7 of his first 8 years, with two visits to the second weekend in his second and third years. But lots of early tournament exits. then no NCAAs for 5 seasons, culminating in an 11 win and a 3 win season. So things went really, really bad at the very end for Meyer, but the general profile is pretty similar to JTIII. Thompson had the final 4, and it did not get "3 win" bad at the end. But otherwise, not much difference.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 9, 2019 8:00:47 GMT -5
To your point about his exit, fair or unfair the perception is that you really have to suck to be Big John’s son and get canned at Georgetown. I had never thought about it from quite that perspective! Lots of coaches get fired when things go badly, but how many of those programs have a life-size statue of the fired coach's dad in the lobby of their practice facility? I guess Joey Meyer is the closest comparison, and he never worked as a HC after DePaul. I looked up Meyer's record - a lot of similarities to JTIII. He made the tournament in 7 of his first 8 years, with two visits to the second weekend in his second and third years. But lots of early tournament exits. then no NCAAs for 5 seasons, culminating in an 11 win and a 3 win season. So things went really, really bad at the very end for Meyer, but the general profile is pretty similar to JTIII. Thompson had the final 4, and it did not get "3 win" bad at the end. But otherwise, not much difference. Interesting. I wonder what are JT3's contract/compensation demands? How does he see/value himself? Meyer never had the top #8 compensation package.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Apr 9, 2019 8:26:01 GMT -5
III would be a very good fit at a low major program, but I doubt that is what he is looking for. His reputation procedes him, his team literally left him at the end and he was clearly lost in those final few seasons. I am surprised he thought he could walk into a Power conference job without some rehab as an assistant or a HC at a lower level program. I always think about what would the reaction be of the fanbase and team that just hired III as their new coach; my conclusion was not too good. What is there to be excited about? Even if he could find a way to attract talent and win enough to make the NCAAs, why would anyone expect success in March? Which is why I am not surprised he is having difficulty.
There are plenty of paths open to him if he would like to get back into coaching, we will see how truly interested he is in coaching.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Apr 9, 2019 8:26:49 GMT -5
To your point about his exit, fair or unfair the perception is that you really have to suck to be Big John’s son and get canned at Georgetown. I had never thought about it from quite that perspective! Lots of coaches get fired when things go badly, but how many of those programs have a life-size statue of the fired coach's dad in the lobby of their practice facility? I guess Joey Meyer is the closest comparison, and he never worked as a HC after DePaul. I looked up Meyer's record - a lot of similarities to JTIII. He made the tournament in 7 of his first 8 years, with two visits to the second weekend in his second and third years. But lots of early tournament exits. then no NCAAs for 5 seasons, culminating in an 11 win and a 3 win season. So things went really, really bad at the very end for Meyer, but the general profile is pretty similar to JTIII. Thompson had the final 4, and it did not get "3 win" bad at the end. But otherwise, not much difference. Aside from the FF year, the NCAA record is essentially the same, but you can't take the FF away from III, and it's a huge difference. He also had much, much better overall seasons than did Meyer. Four of the seven bids Meyer earned were as a nine seed or lower. III's NCAA teams all were seeded in the top half of the draw. Yes, I know many argue that makes the early exits all the worse, but if you're analyzing the two guys' overall careers...and their NCAA overall record is already (at worst) a wash, then the overall seasonal success is another strong factor in III's favor. And finally, saying that things went "really, really" bad at the end for Meyer is true, but again it's an enormous difference. It's sort of like saying that other than the iceberg, the folks on the Titanic had a nice trip. JTIII made the NCAAs in two of his last five years and won an NCAA game in his third-to-last year. His last two seasons were bad...and certainly trending the wrong way...but "only" a few games under .500. Meyer didn't make it at all his last five years and didn't win an NCAA game his last eight years. His final season was an abject embarrassment.
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guru
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Post by guru on Apr 9, 2019 9:06:12 GMT -5
I had never thought about it from quite that perspective! Lots of coaches get fired when things go badly, but how many of those programs have a life-size statue of the fired coach's dad in the lobby of their practice facility? I guess Joey Meyer is the closest comparison, and he never worked as a HC after DePaul. I looked up Meyer's record - a lot of similarities to JTIII. He made the tournament in 7 of his first 8 years, with two visits to the second weekend in his second and third years. But lots of early tournament exits. then no NCAAs for 5 seasons, culminating in an 11 win and a 3 win season. So things went really, really bad at the very end for Meyer, but the general profile is pretty similar to JTIII. Thompson had the final 4, and it did not get "3 win" bad at the end. But otherwise, not much difference. Aside from the FF year, the NCAA record is essentially the same, but you can't take the FF away from III, and it's a huge difference. He also had much, much better overall seasons than did Meyer. Four of the seven bids Meyer earned were as a nine seed or lower. III's NCAA teams all were seeded in the top half of the draw. Yes, I know many argue that makes the early exits all the worse, but if you're analyzing the two guys' overall careers...and their NCAA overall record is already (at worst) a wash, then the overall seasonal success is another strong factor in III's favor. And finally, saying that things went "really, really" bad at the end for Meyer is true, but again it's an enormous difference. It's sort of like saying that other than the iceberg, the folks on the Titanic had a nice trip. JTIII made the NCAAs in two of his last five years and won an NCAA game in his third-to-last year. His last two seasons were bad...and certainly trending the wrong way...but "only" a few games under .500. Meyer didn't make it at all his last five years and didn't win an NCAA game his last eight years. His final season was an abject embarrassment. The most important similarity between the two is that they were hired by their dads, and both performed poorly enough that the university was forced to make the extraodinarily difficult decision of firing someone with so many close ties to the program. You have to be doing very badly indeed to get fired from that situation, and clearly getting another chance is going to be awfully difficult.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 9, 2019 9:07:21 GMT -5
Way more resources at GU. Our hoops budget is top-10. We are doing less, with more. A travesty!
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Apr 9, 2019 9:20:34 GMT -5
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 9, 2019 9:54:13 GMT -5
Way more resources at GU. Our hoops budget is top-10. We are doing less, with more. A travesty! Are you comparing our basketball budget, in 2019, or what the budget was in 1997 (Joey Meyer's last year at DePaul)?
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 9, 2019 9:55:24 GMT -5
Don't think that JT3 would take this open position, and it might well cause a revolt on Utopia Parkway. Wouldn't rule out Little Ricky, though.
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Apr 9, 2019 11:03:58 GMT -5
Don't think that JT3 would take this open position, and it might well cause a revolt on Utopia Parkway. That would be very interesting to say the least, if the Johnnies bring along JT3 as the coach.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 9, 2019 11:21:25 GMT -5
Feel free to adjust for inflation. 😉
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Apr 9, 2019 11:26:06 GMT -5
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 9, 2019 11:34:46 GMT -5
The revisionist history on JT3 is kind of silly. Even if you want to whine about the NCAA losses, I think it is indisputable that from 2005-2013, JT3's performance was easily sufficient to avoid anything remotely resembling firing. In fact, it was quite a good run over those 9 years: Sweet 16, Final Four, 7 NCAA bids (seeds of 7, 2, 2, 3, 6, 3, 2), one BET win, 2 BET finals, winning the regular season three times. There are very, very, very few coaches with that sort of record, even with the NCAA losses.
So that leaves the last 4 years:
2014: 18-15, 8-10. Admittedly, a bad season, but not terrible. This is the year we were first out of the NCAA field, and likely would've been in without the DePaul BET loss. Very disappointing season, but it's hard to say this was a disastrous season. Despite the bad performance, we almost made the NCAA, made the NIT, and won a game.
2015: 22-11, 12-6, 4 seed. Won a game in the NCAA, before losing to 5 seed Utah (that was favored in the game). Given the 2014 team, this was a nice season.
2016: 15-19, 7-11. No doubt, a bad season, ranked 62 on KenPom.
2017: 14-18, 5-13. No doubt, really bad season. Ranked 69 on KenPom.
So no doubt, 2016 and 2017 were terrible, but JT3 basically had 2 bad seasons and then got fired, 2 years off a 4 seed in the NCAA tournament. Yes, he was flawed, and would he have turned it around if given more time? Questionable, but the degree to which we had fallen is often exaggerated here because people got emotional over it, and clearly, still harbor a lot of resentment about it. It's nothing compared to what Meyer dealt with at DePaul, or even Mullin's record at St. Johns.
Let me be clear. I am not trying to restart the argument over whether he should've been fired, but I do think the revisionist history about how far we had fallen is hyperbole. And I also think that's why people are overly negative about JT3's hiring prospects. I agree it could be tough for him to get a job, but people who see no reason why a school would hire him are being willfully blind to the entirety of his record.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 9, 2019 11:43:01 GMT -5
In all seriousness, has JT3 even been on the radar for most of these jobs? I know they bandied his name about a bit at Vandy, probably due to the academic connection, but instead chose a total unknown wild card in Jerry Stackhouse.
We talk alot about JT3 around here obviously because he's our former coach and the son of the program's architect, but it looks like he's pretty much a non-entity in the upper levels of college hoops. That says a lot more about what people think of him than opinions being thrown out on message boards. Clearly, ADs don't think very highly of him.
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