hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 15, 2019 6:25:48 GMT -5
No thanks. This isn’t rec league. This is the big east. He’s been abominable all season, capped off by what is most certainly one of the worst performances by a Hoya in BET history. He’s been a fine representative of the school and all that. Whatever. I cannot wait to never have to see him play basketball ever again I think you guys are going way overboard on Trey, who is a good kid and Hoya as well. He is not talented and unfortunately does try things not within his skillset, for sure. But in my mind he hustles a heck of a lot more than Jesse does...who is light years more talented. Also people are forgetting the concussion that Trey suffered early in the season....I said it earlier when Trey first came back, it took me over a year to feel completely clear in my head after I suffered a concussion....its weird but you feel a little cloudy for awhile and a step behind....its sad to me because Trey can do all that he is attempting but he just can't finish....unfortunately this is his senior year....I truly believe that Trey scores 10pts/gm without the concussion....
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Mar 15, 2019 6:33:57 GMT -5
I think you guys are going way overboard on Trey, who is a good kid and Hoya as well. He is not talented and unfortunately does try things not within his skillset, for sure. But in my mind he hustles a heck of a lot more than Jesse does...who is light years more talented. Also people are forgetting the concussion that Trey suffered early in the season....I said it earlier when Trey first came back, it took me over a year to feel completely clear in my head after I suffered a concussion....its weird but you feel a little cloudy for awhile and a step behind....its sad to me because Trey can do all that he is attempting but he just can't finish....unfortunately this is his senior year....I truly believe that Trey scores 10pts/gm without the concussion.... If the concussion was bothering so much to affect his game like that, he shouldn’t be playing instead of some other player, much less trying to score turnaround jump shots and 3s. There’s no excuse, he was trying to get his own (and I have defended him in the past).
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 15, 2019 6:42:26 GMT -5
Also people are forgetting the concussion that Trey suffered early in the season....I said it earlier when Trey first came back, it took me over a year to feel completely clear in my head after I suffered a concussion....its weird but you feel a little cloudy for awhile and a step behind....its sad to me because Trey can do all that he is attempting but he just can't finish....unfortunately this is his senior year....I truly believe that Trey scores 10pts/gm without the concussion.... If the concussion was bothering so much to affect his game like that, he shouldn’t be playing instead of some other player, much less trying to score turnaround jump shots and 3s. There’s no excuse, he was trying to get his own (and I have defended him in the past). I was in my 30s, playing pickup games with other 30+ cats and I tried to play through it. You really think a 21yr old in his senior year is going to shut himself down? And like I said its weird because you feel okay but when you are making a move and need to decide quickly, you are few beats behind your norm....enough to miss a shot that you normally make or dribble the ball off your feet....I don't know Trey personally but he was playing well pre-concussion and pretty much sucked post-concussion.....
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Mar 15, 2019 6:48:28 GMT -5
Whether he plays should not be up to him, but whatever...
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Post by WhatRocks on Mar 15, 2019 6:50:11 GMT -5
I want to take a moment to thank Kaleb for the hard work he put in over 4 years. The first two years he showed lots of hustle and glimpses of talent but little else. He was the most undisciplined player on the court, running around all over the court like a 7th grader. The last two years he has become a disciplined, competent, contributor, someone I was happy to see in the game. He is one of the success stories for the program.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Mar 15, 2019 7:03:42 GMT -5
Last night was one of the worst Hoya games I have seen in my life. Terrible, awful, and worse. Oh well.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by calhoya on Mar 15, 2019 7:04:22 GMT -5
I completely understand the frustration of watching another meltdown performance by the team last night. The kids were completely over-matched by the moment and the coach again failed to get his team ready to play in a big game. I get it. All the criticism is fair and unless they can find some players who can consistently shoot and play some defense, next year could make this year a fond memory.
I do not understand the anger, almost hate, that is being directed to Mourning. Felt the same when the trashing was aimed at Pickett, Govan, Mosley,"the seniors", McClung etc. It's one thing to be invested in your team and another to go completely off the rails when the kids perform horribly. No one was trying to lose. These kids are more upset and embarrassed by their performance than any of us armchair athletes who are sitting at home pronouncing players incompetent or terrible. Mourning, Govan, Kaleb and Malinowski could all have left at some point in their careers and played elsewhere in a less visible or demanding environment. This team would not have been better off. This season would have been much worse. They screwed up last night--again--I get it and I struggled to watch the mistakes by everyone, including the coach, but it's over. This is a flawed team that brought back some excitement to the program that was in desperate shape after several years of failure.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 15, 2019 7:19:57 GMT -5
I am not sure I want to re-watch to answer this question, but I am curious about our offense in the opening minutes. It was completely stagnant. There was no ball movement. Was it James holding the ball at the top of the key? Was it the others not moving and presenting themselves as an option? Was it both?
It was apparent to me from our earliest possessions offensively that we were laying an egg. And you could tell from our earliest offensive possessions of the 2nd half that we were going to play better.
The opening possessions set the tone and establish a pattern. I am surprised that our players and coaches don’t seems to value their importance.
I can’t tell how much of this is on the coach for not calling the plays to get all the players to touch the ball or on the floor leader for not running the play and getting others involved or on the other players for making winning moves off the ball.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Mar 15, 2019 7:28:15 GMT -5
I am not sure I want to re-watch to answer this question, but I am curious about our offense in the opening minutes. It was completely stagnant. There was no ball movement. Was it James holding the ball at the top of the key? Was it the others not moving and presenting themselves as an option? Was it both? It was apparent to me from our earliest possessions offensively that we were laying an egg. And you could tell from our earliest offensive possessions of the 2nd half that we were going to play better. The opening possessions set the tone and establish a pattern. I am surprised that our players and coaches don’t seems to value their importance. I can’t tell how much of this is on the coach for not calling the plays to get all the players to touch the ball or on the floor leader for not running the play and getting others involved or on the other players for making winning moves off the ball. I've never seen a team where its immediately apparent what type of effort you are going to get and whether or not to expect if a win is forthcoming. Multiple times this year it was clear from the jump there were games we looked poised to win (at Butler, Villanova, at St Johns, at Marquette), and even ones where the score didn't reflect it early on (at PC, Xavier, Seton Hall). Then there were games within 5 minutes it was clear we had no shot (at Creighton, at Seton Hall, at DePaul, last night). As someone mentioned the body language is awful sometimes, and no one seems to be set on correcting it. Seton Hall last night looked loose but prepared during warmups and the opening minutes. We looked tight and unready for their scheme when they started trapping James. I don't know what Orr and Kirby add on the sidelines, as I rarely see them talking to the guys, teaching, or just flat out inspiring some effort. I really wonder if after 2 years of "helping" his friend out, if it's time for Orr to step aside and let another younger, hungry assistant come in.
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 15, 2019 7:35:43 GMT -5
I am not sure I want to re-watch to answer this question, but I am curious about our offense in the opening minutes. It was completely stagnant. There was no ball movement. Was it James holding the ball at the top of the key? Was it the others not moving and presenting themselves as an option? Was it both? It was apparent to me from our earliest possessions offensively that we were laying an egg. And you could tell from our earliest offensive possessions of the 2nd half that we were going to play better. The opening possessions set the tone and establish a pattern. I am surprised that our players and coaches don’t seems to value their importance. I can’t tell how much of this is on the coach for not calling the plays to get all the players to touch the ball or on the floor leader for not running the play and getting others involved or on the other players for making winning moves off the ball. I've never seen a team where its immediately apparent what type of effort you are going to get and whether or not to expect if a win is forthcoming. Multiple times this year it was clear from the jump there were games we looked poised to win (at Butler, Villanova, at St Johns, at Marquette), and even ones where the score didn't reflect it early on (at PC, Xavier, Seton Hall). Then there were games within 5 minutes it was clear we had no shot (at Creighton, at Seton Hall, at DePaul, last night). As someone mentioned the body language is awful sometimes, and no one seems to be set on correcting it. Seton Hall last night looked loose but prepared during warmups and the opening minutes. We looked tight and unready for their scheme when they started trapping James. I don't know what Orr and Kirby add on the sidelines, as I rarely see them talking to the guys, teaching, or just flat out inspiring some effort. I really wonder if after 2 years of "helping" his friend out, if it's time for Orr to step aside and let another younger, hungry assistant come in. Part of me puts this on James. He sets the tone, and if he is not getting the effort/movement from the others he needs to light a fire. Part of me puts this on the coach who may need to call an early time-out and smash a clipboard. Part of me puts this on the so-called leaders of the team. If you are a leader, then freaking do something.....or say something. Part of me puts this on every coach and player in the program for being passive and letting this happen.
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robbyt
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Post by robbyt on Mar 15, 2019 7:37:53 GMT -5
I am not sure I want to re-watch to answer this question, but I am curious about our offense in the opening minutes. It was completely stagnant. There was no ball movement. Was it James holding the ball at the top of the key? Was it the others not moving and presenting themselves as an option? Was it both? It was apparent to me from our earliest possessions offensively that we were laying an egg. And you could tell from our earliest offensive possessions of the 2nd half that we were going to play better. The opening possessions set the tone and establish a pattern. I am surprised that our players and coaches don’t seems to value their importance. I can’t tell how much of this is on the coach for not calling the plays to get all the players to touch the ball or on the floor leader for not running the play and getting others involved or on the other players for making winning moves off the ball. Good point, it's all of the above. We just lack a strong offensive structure and strategy, ball and player movement are slow. Ball spends way to much time in Akinjo's hands dribbling around into double teams instead of swinging it. I think it's a known fact around the Big East, bc every team does the same thing against us, trapping us out on the perimeter bc they know our spacing is often lousy and we have a hard time switching sides quickly to exploit the double team. By contrast Seton Hall switched sides on us all night, that's all they did.was Powell drive and either shoot or kick it to the other side out of the double team. A lot of these "player" problems mentioned are largely bc players don't know what their roles are, you have Tre popping 3s. We have some interesting individual plays that work but not a good basic offense.
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by smokeyjack on Mar 15, 2019 7:47:50 GMT -5
I am not sure I want to re-watch to answer this question, but I am curious about our offense in the opening minutes. It was completely stagnant. There was no ball movement. Was it James holding the ball at the top of the key? Was it the others not moving and presenting themselves as an option? Was it both? It was apparent to me from our earliest possessions offensively that we were laying an egg. And you could tell from our earliest offensive possessions of the 2nd half that we were going to play better. The opening possessions set the tone and establish a pattern. I am surprised that our players and coaches don’t seems to value their importance. I can’t tell how much of this is on the coach for not calling the plays to get all the players to touch the ball or on the floor leader for not running the play and getting others involved or on the other players for making winning moves off the ball. Good point, it's all of the above. We just lack a strong offensive structure and strategy, ball and player movement are slow. Ball spends way to much time in Akinjo's hands dribbling around into double teams instead of swinging it. I think it's a known fact around the Big East, bc every team does the same thing against us, trapping us out on the perimeter bc they know our spacing is often lousy and we have a hard time switching sides quickly to exploit the double team. By contrast Seton Hall switched sides on us all night, that's all they did.was Powell drive and either shoot or kick it to the other side out of the double team. A lot of these "player" problems mentioned are largely bc players don't know what their roles are, you have Tre popping 3s. We have some interesting individual plays that work but not a good basic offense. That’s what terrifies me (yes, terrifies is the right word) about Pat and this staff. If our guys are making shots, cutting hard and show up hungry, we’re a tough out for anyone. If they show up cold, we have no offense and seemingly no coaching strategy to fall back on. No adjustments are made. It’s just hard to watch it happen again and again and not think Patrick is in a little over his head. It feels like we have a freshman on the sidelines as well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 8:01:53 GMT -5
Good point, it's all of the above. We just lack a strong offensive structure and strategy, ball and player movement are slow. Ball spends way to much time in Akinjo's hands dribbling around into double teams instead of swinging it. I think it's a known fact around the Big East, bc every team does the same thing against us, trapping us out on the perimeter bc they know our spacing is often lousy and we have a hard time switching sides quickly to exploit the double team. By contrast Seton Hall switched sides on us all night, that's all they did.was Powell drive and either shoot or kick it to the other side out of the double team. A lot of these "player" problems mentioned are largely bc players don't know what their roles are, you have Tre popping 3s. We have some interesting individual plays that work but not a good basic offense. That’s what terrifies me (yes, terrifies is the right word) about Pat and this staff. If our guys are making shots, cutting hard and show up hungry, we’re a tough out for anyone. If they show up cold, we have no offense and seemingly no coaching strategy to fall back on. No adjustments are made. It’s just hard to watch it happen again and again and not think Patrick is in a little over his head. It feels like we have a freshman on the sidelines as well. I’m admittedly a Pat apologist (at least through Year 3) but you can get “punched in the mouth” on defense too. That’s what SHU did and very smart on Willard’s part. Make Hoyas take 10 seconds to get into the half court offense (which is mediocre on the best days) and if you get TOs off the press, even better, stick with it. Also though Raf’s comment about Willard liking “city kids” was interesting. To me this speaks to a mentality more than socioeconomic, racial etc. I’d put both Mac and James in that category whereas Jessie (Queens in tha house!) not so much ... play every possession like you’re getting kicked off the playground if you lose ...
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 15, 2019 8:02:57 GMT -5
Jessie didn't play well most of his final handful of games. To say he's not a fiery guy would be an understatement. And he's not a good defender. With all that out of the way....those who watched the beginning of that game and concluded that he was the issue must have been watching ESPN instead of FS1. Start with the offense.
First possession: very clearly a called play, and it's one we've run as the first offensive play a number of times this year. Jessie immediately sets a high PNR for James and then pops to the top of the key. It's wide open. It works. Jessie is begging for the ball. Instead, James shoots a jumper with his feet on the three-point line with 25 seconds left in the possession. It goes in, but that's beside the point. Instead of getting the highest efficiency shot for our team (an open Jessie three), we get the lowest efficiency shot in all of basketball (a long two early in the shot clock).
2: also clearly a called play. We clear out a side for Mac and Jessie and the play appears to be to get Jessie the ball in the post. Somewhat unluckily, the Hall has set-up with the wrong guys defending Mac and Josh. As the ball goes to Mac, they switch back and the big actually unintentionally doubles Jessie in the post as he is on his way to defend Josh. Mac doesn't wait for him to clear -- if he did -- Jessie has good position and is open. Instead it gets swung to James, who runs the pick and pop with Josh. Not surprisingly, the Hall adjusts and defend it well. James swings to Mac on the other side. Jesse is in the corner providing spacing and his man is right on him, leaving the paint open. Instead of driving and taking advantage of the spacing Jessie provides, Mac shoots a wild contested three with ten seconds still on the shot clock. It's an air ball.
3: First one that SH uses their press. We get the ball to Mac just over half-court in the middle -- excellent execution. And he immediately drives hard to the hole and makes the layup. Jessie is again wide-open for three on the drive, but no issue from me there.
4: Results from a live-ball turnover (good D from Mac). Mac drives hard leading a 3-2 and feeds the trailer (Jessie) who makes a little runner.
5: No set. James dribbles up, beats his man and makes a very difficult spinning layup. Jessie is again out high, which means that his man can't help on the drive. No issue with this possession from me -- we at least "use" Jessie in the sense that his spacing facilitates the drive.
6: We move the ball a fair amount but we miss Jessie flashing hard to the elbow where he's open. The possession ends with James and Josh running a side PNR. James tries to shoot a three but gets stripped on the way up. The spacing here was the issue. It's not technically a turnover, but the result is the same...it ends up in a transition opportunity for the Hall and an open three, which they make.
7: Josh turns it over on a horrible pass to James against the press -- dunk for the Hall.
8: They pressure again. This time Josh gets the ball, is open on the wing, and properly attacks hard. He draws a block (that probably should have been a shooting foul).
9: We inbound to Jessie -- that's his SECOND TOUCH of the game -- and he goes to Jagan who sets the offense. They run the wing PNR with Josh...nothing there so Jagan quickly swings to James. From the weak-side wing, Jessie flashes into the low post. He -- again -- is wide open. James doesn't give him the ball. Raftery even comments on it. The ball goes to Mac, who turns it over. We're now down four. Timeout.
10: Out of the timeout, it's a different press from the Hall. It's a man, but with trapping (a run and jump). James breaks it with the dribble and gets fouled. After the foul, we run a patient set that ends in a James/Josh wing PNR and a Josh flush.
11: Same D from the Hall. Again we get it to Mac in the middle but he walks.
12: Now we're down 7. Jessie gets another touch but just as a ball-mover. The Hall goes into an extended 2-3 (their third defense in the first five minutes of the game). Jessie gets it out high and is pressured and runs a dribble-handoff with Jagan. Again the D doesn't want to leave Jessie and so Jagan has a lane, which he takes and scores.
13: Hall goes back to man. Ball goes to Jessie on the wing and he feeds Josh in the post. Good look on a lefty hook but it's no good. No issue there.
Jessie picks up his second foul on the next possession and comes out. We're down 5. By the time he returns to the game, the game is over.
Honestly, I'm not sure what Jessie could have done any differently in terms of execution, effort, etc. on the offensive end at this point. We ran several sets to get him the ball and several times he was open and didn't get the ball. Several of the times our guards score, it's at least in part because of the fact that Jessie is providing spacing and there's no help. It's not obvious when watching live, but that's one of the huge factors when Trey is in the game -- his guy can help whenever he wants. And several times, we just make bone-headed decisions that don't involve him.
So, it must have been his defense? Well, no. Again, he's not a good defender, but there's very little here that's terrible. On the first three possessions, he (1) correctly helps on a Powell J and contests; (2) correctly helps on a drive and blocks/alters it; and (3) hedges aggressively, helping to lead to a Mac steal. On the fourth, he hedges well and then gets a tough defensive board. It's certainly not perfect: he picks up a bad foul on the next possession and gets blown by on the next one. He also picks up a second early foul. But it's not like it's awful.
ON EDIT: I posted this before I saw the question above about our offense, but this answers it. I wouldn't say we were stagnant, but we didn't really execute well and didn't make good decisions. The biggest criticism I have, generally, with our offensive structure is one that I don't think will be popular (because it was somewhat of a JTIII staple and many hated it). I like getting three or four (or five) guys a touch in every possession. Run the high PNR for James...but do it after you move the ball side to side once or twice to make the defense move. We don't often do that. In general, the ball doesn't move crisply. Jagan is the only guy that's a good instinctual ball-mover. (Greg also looked to move the ball quickly...but often made less than ideal decisions.) The Hall also switched defenses frequently and that confused us. Bottom line: you can play quickly in the sense that you can look to push for transition and secondary-break opportunities. That's all good. But once it isn't there, go ahead and get people some touches. You can still do that quickly! It doesn't need to take 20 seconds off the shot clock. Couple dribble hand-offs or something.
Our D was really the issue in this one (and often this year). Some of that was our tendency for live-ball turnovers, but a lot of it was inability to stay in front of our man, our tendency to over-help and our general inability to stay connected. That's Xs and Os stuff mainly. And it needs to get better -- a lot better -- if we're going to be where we want.
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robbyt
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 334
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Post by robbyt on Mar 15, 2019 8:04:07 GMT -5
Good point, it's all of the above. We just lack a strong offensive structure and strategy, ball and player movement are slow. Ball spends way to much time in Akinjo's hands dribbling around into double teams instead of swinging it. I think it's a known fact around the Big East, bc every team does the same thing against us, trapping us out on the perimeter bc they know our spacing is often lousy and we have a hard time switching sides quickly to exploit the double team. By contrast Seton Hall switched sides on us all night, that's all they did.was Powell drive and either shoot or kick it to the other side out of the double team. A lot of these "player" problems mentioned are largely bc players don't know what their roles are, you have Tre popping 3s. We have some interesting individual plays that work but not a good basic offense. That’s what terrifies me (yes, terrifies is the right word) about Pat and this staff. If our guys are making shots, cutting hard and show up hungry, we’re a tough out for anyone. If they show up cold, we have no offense and seemingly no coaching strategy to fall back on. No adjustments are made. It’s just hard to watch it happen again and again and not think Patrick is in a little over his head. It feels like we have a freshman on the sidelines as well. Yeah these days with so much talent and information sharing among the coaching world, you have some really good technical coaches from top to bottom. Creighton destroyed us w their offensive movement. With JTIII and PE we've played the Celebrity Coach card for 15 some years, the school already has name recognition it doesn't need a famous coach. A previous article said in practice other coaches ie Orr I believe actually handle the offense while Ewing works w big men. If so, right there you have a major disconnect come game time. What successful team works like that? Personally I wonder how much John Wallace is involved, I think he would be an awesome coach--and he probably will be somewhere else in a few years.
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,044
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 15, 2019 8:12:30 GMT -5
Jessie didn't play well most of his final handful of games. To say he's not a fiery guy would be an understatement. And he's not a good defender. With all that out of the way....those who watched the beginning of that game and concluded that he was the issue must have been watching ESPN instead of FS1. Start with the offense. First possession: very clearly a called play, and it's one we've run as the first offensive play a number of times this year. Jessie immediately sets a high PNR for James and then pops to the top of the key. It's wide open. It works. Jessie is begging for the ball. Instead, James shoots a jumper with his feet on the three-point line with 25 seconds left in the possession. It goes in, but that's beside the point. Instead of getting the highest efficiency shot for our team (an open Jessie three), we get the lowest efficiency shot in all of basketball (a long two early in the shot clock). 2: also clearly a called play. We clear out a side for Mac and Jessie and the play appears to be to get Jessie the ball in the post. Somewhat unluckily, the Hall has set-up with the wrong guys defending Mac and Josh. As the ball goes to Mac, they switch back and the big actually unintentionally doubles Jessie in the post as he is on his way to defend Josh. Mac doesn't wait for him to clear -- if he did -- Jessie has good position and is open. Instead it gets swung to James, who runs the pick and pop with Josh. Not surprisingly, the Hall adjusts and defend it well. James swings to Mac on the other side. Jesse is in the corner providing spacing and his man is right on him, leaving the paint open. Instead of driving and taking advantage of the spacing Jessie provides, Mac shoots a wild contested three with ten seconds still on the shot clock. It's an air ball. 3: First one that SH uses their press. We get the ball to Mac just over half-court in the middle -- excellent execution. And he immediately drives hard to the hole and makes the layup. Jessie is again wide-open for three on the drive, but no issue from me there. 4: Results from a live-ball turnover (good D from Mac). Mac drives hard leading a 3-2 and feeds the trailer (Jessie) who makes a little runner. 5: No set. James dribbles up, beats his man and makes a very difficult spinning layup. Jessie is again out high, which means that his man can't help on the drive. No issue with this possession from me -- we at least "use" Jessie in the sense that his spacing facilitates the drive. 6: We move the ball a fair amount but we miss Jessie flashing hard to the elbow where he's open. The possession ends with James and Josh running a side PNR. James tries to shoot a three but gets stripped on the way up. The spacing here was the issue. It's not technically a turnover, but the result is the same...it ends up in a transition opportunity for the Hall and an open three, which they make. 7: Josh turns it over on a horrible pass to James against the press -- dunk for the Hall. 8: They pressure again. This time Josh gets the ball, is open on the wing, and properly attacks hard. He draws a block (that probably should have been a shooting foul). 9: We inbound to Jessie -- that's his SECOND TOUCH of the game -- and he goes to Jagan who sets the offense. They run the wing PNR with Josh...nothing there so Jagan quickly swings to James. From the weak-side wing, Jessie flashes into the low post. He -- again -- is wide open. James doesn't give him the ball. Raftery even comments on it. The ball goes to Mac, who turns it over. We're now down four. Timeout. 10: Out of the timeout, it's a different press from the Hall. It's a man, but with trapping (a run and jump). James breaks it with the dribble and gets fouled. After the foul, we run a patient set that ends in a James/Josh wing PNR and a Josh flush. 11: Same D from the Hall. Again we get it to Mac in the middle but he walks. 12: Now we're down 7. Jessie gets another touch but just as a ball-mover. The Hall goes into an extended 2-3 (their third defense in the first five minutes of the game). Jessie gets it out high and is pressured and runs a dribble-handoff with Jagan. Again the D doesn't want to leave Jessie and so Jagan has a lane, which he takes and scores. 13: Hall goes back to man. Ball goes to Jessie on the wing and he feeds Josh in the post. Good look on a lefty hook but it's no good. No issue there. Jessie picks up his second foul on the next possession and comes out. We're down 5. By the time he returns to the game, the game is over. Honestly, I'm not sure what Jessie could have done any differently in terms of execution, effort, etc. on the offensive end at this point. We ran several sets to get him the ball and several times he was open and didn't get the ball. Several of the times our guards score, it's at least in part because of the fact that Jessie is providing spacing and there's no help. It's not obvious when watching live, but that's one of the huge factors when Trey is in the game -- his guy can help whenever he wants. And several times, we just make bone-headed decisions that don't involve him. So, it must have been his defense? Well, no. Again, he's not a good defender, but there's very little here that's terrible. On the first three possessions, he (1) correctly helps on a Powell J and contests; (2) correctly helps on a drive and blocks/alters it; and (3) hedges aggressively, helping to lead to a Mac steal. On the fourth, he hedges well and then gets a tough defensive board. It's certainly not perfect: he picks up a bad foul on the next possession and gets blown by on the next one. He also picks up a second early foul. But it's not like it's awful. ON EDIT: I posted this before I saw the question above about our offense, but this answers it. I wouldn't say we were stagnant, but we didn't really execute well and didn't make good decisions. The biggest criticism I have, generally, with our offensive structure is one that I don't think will be popular (because it was somewhat of a JTIII staple and many hated it). I like getting three or four (or five) guys a touch in every possession. Run the high PNR for James...but do it after you move the ball side to side once or twice to make the defense move. We don't often do that. In general, the ball doesn't move crisply. Jagan is the only guy that's a good instinctual ball-mover. (Greg also looked to move the ball quickly...but often made less than ideal decisions.) The Hall also switched defenses frequently and that confused us. Thank you for breaking it down and sharing it.
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Post by franklinhoya on Mar 15, 2019 8:13:37 GMT -5
After the first few minutes (where we were up 8-4), they pressured/trapped us all the way to half court, and we could not find a way to get through it to get into our offensive sets. High ball pressure caused our offense to stagnate. We don't do well with that type of pressure and we turn the ball over a lot as a result.
In my opinion, the way we defended Powell was the key to this game. In the 1st half, we played straight up on him, let him get the ball and tried to stay in front and contest his shots (what I would call normal defense). This was a complete failure because he was able to get by the initial defender and was making all his contested and uncontested shots. In the 2nd half, we decided to face-guard him and deny him the ball all over the court, and his defender (mostly Akinjo) eschewed any other defensive responsibility and focused solely on stopping him. He had to work really hard just to get the ball, if he could even get it at all. As a result, when he eventually did get the ball, he was forcing bad shots out of frustration or fatigue. If we had done this the whole game, it would have been a different story. I don't know why we didn't start the game this way, or at least adjust before the game was out of hand.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 15, 2019 8:14:57 GMT -5
I completely understand the frustration of watching another meltdown performance by the team last night. The kids were completely over-matched by the moment and the coach again failed to get his team ready to play in a big game. I get it. All the criticism is fair and unless they can find some players who can consistently shoot and play some defense, next year could make this year a fond memory. I do not understand the anger, almost hate, that is being directed to Mourning. Felt the same when the trashing was aimed at Pickett, Govan, Mosley,"the seniors", McClung etc. It's one thing to be invested in your team and another to go completely off the rails when the kids perform horribly. No one was trying to lose. These kids are more upset and embarrassed by their performance than any of us armchair athletes who are sitting at home pronouncing players incompetent or terrible. Mourning, Govan, Kaleb and Malinowski could all have left at some point in their careers and played elsewhere in a less visible or demanding environment. This team would not have been better off. This season would have been much worse. They screwed up last night--again--I get it and I struggled to watch the mistakes by everyone, including the coach, but it's over. This is a flawed team that brought back some excitement to the program that was in desperate shape after several years of failure. Mourning continued to jack up 3s playing center. He’s a career 16% 3pt shooter And is shooting 18% from 3pt this year I don’t understand why he keeps jacking them up all season when he is likely the worst 3pt shooter on the team.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 15, 2019 8:37:48 GMT -5
On the issue of Trey Mourning: in this game, we had 68 possessions. Mourning played for 21 minutes.
In those 21 minutes, he took 9 field goals and also had two fouls that led to free throws. He had one turnover. So, in 12 possssions out of 68 in the game (keep in mind Mourning did not play all 68 possessions since he only played about half the game), Mourning “ended” our possession of the ball.
Of course, this is not the only reason we lost, but it’s a major problem when one of your worst players is using 12 possessions, most of which are shots, particularly when he has been very poor at shooting it.
While I do think Mourning carries some responsibility for this because of his selfish play, I think most of the responsibility falls on Patrick Ewing. You cannot possibly win a game when one of your worst offensive players gets so many touches and shoots the ball on nearly every one. We know Ewing has no problems pulling guys when they make mistakes, yet repeatedly Mourning made bad decisions and Ewing left him in the game while Govan and Kaleb Johnson - both of whom are way more capable even if they are imperfect themselves - sat on the bench. I simply don’t understand it.
In that sense, you can’t blame Trey Mourning. It’s not his fault he was allowed to take 9 shots. At core, Mourning is essentially a walk on, and was basically recruited as such. And that’s fine. I would even be fine if he played spot minutes or limited minutes within himself. But for whatever reason, the staff seems to think he’s worthy of extended minutes. To me that’s the real problem going forward. Mourning is essentially done and will leave the team following the NIT if we make it. The bigger problem is the decision making that led to his being thrust into that role, because it displays a seeming lack of understanding that you cannot have a guy who is a poor shooter just jacking up shots every time he touches it.
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,044
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 15, 2019 8:48:26 GMT -5
On the issue of Trey Mourning: in this game, we had 68 possessions. Mourning played for 21 minutes. In those 21 minutes, he took 9 field goals and also had two fouls that led to free throws. He had one turnover. So, in 12 possssions out of 68 in the game (keep in mind Mourning did not play all 68 possessions since he only played about half the game), Mourning “ended” our possession of the ball. Of course, this is not the only reason we lost, but it’s a major problem when one of your worst players is using 12 possessions, most of which are shots, particularly when he has been very poor at shooting it. While I do think Mourning carries some responsibility for this because of his selfish play, I think most of the responsibility falls on Patrick Ewing. You cannot possibly win a game when one of your worst offensive players gets so many touches and shoots the ball on nearly every one. We know Ewing has no problems pulling guys when they make mistakes, yet repeatedly Mourning made bad decisions and Ewing left him in the game while Govan and Kaleb Johnson - both of whom are way more capable even if they are imperfect themselves - sat on the bench. I simply don’t understand it. In that sense, you can’t blame Trey Mourning. It’s not his fault he was allowed to take 9 shots. At core, Mourning is essentially a walk on, and was basically recruited as such. And that’s fine. I would even be fine if he played spot minutes or limited minutes within himself. But for whatever reason, the staff seems to think he’s worthy of extended minutes. To me that’s the real problem going forward. Mourning is essentially done and will leave the team following the NIT if we make it. The bigger problem is the decision making that led to his being thrust into that role, because it displays a seeming lack of understanding that you cannot have a guy who is a poor shooter just jacking up shots every time he touches it. Fortunately, Ewing will not have a nephew on next year’s team who is also probably a great young man that he has known since birth.. So maybe he will be able to see things more clearly.
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