prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
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Post by prhoya on Mar 22, 2019 7:48:45 GMT -5
Awesome fot the BE, but Pat needs a plan to contain him. The BE needs to win a lot of games in the OOC to get as much teams as possible into the Top 25.
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 22, 2019 7:49:11 GMT -5
Will the Seton Hall loss finally end our long national nightmare of hearing how we were "improved" at 9-9 in the Big East? Is that really the logic you subscribe to? Iowa is not taking into consideration that everyone not associated with Georgetown picked them to finish 9th....we finished tied for 3rd with 3 frosh and 1 soph as 4/5 of our starting 5 for the majority of the season....you can argue the amount of "improvement" but there is no arguing we "improved"....
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 22, 2019 7:58:44 GMT -5
Is that really the logic you subscribe to? Iowa is not taking into consideration that everyone not associated with Georgetown picked them to finish 9th....we finished tied for 3rd with 3 frosh and 1 soph as 4/5 of our starting 5 for the majority of the season....you can argue the amount of "improvement" but there is no arguing we "improved".... That doesn't fit the agenda to take down the basketball program and the Thompson's.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 22, 2019 8:29:30 GMT -5
THe big east is looking bad but frankly, we all knew this. We were a conference of good but not great teams. After seeing the St. Johns loss, I quickly went and changed my Marquette & Seton Hall picks and have Nova getting bounced by Purdue. There is an ebb and flow to this stuff. The B1G has been hot garbage for a few years and now they are strong. The ACC is so big it is hard to tell but they always tend to be top heavy. The SEC looks much better than most years and the Big 12 looks really good.
Unrelated, went to my old man Thursday night hoops and Team Takeover was finishing a practice before we took the court. They have like 40 kids on the roster. Ridiculous.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 22, 2019 9:25:02 GMT -5
Didn't Otto say he was coming back when he was asked right after the NCAA loss? I would not put much stock in this, he would be foolish to not at least go through the evaluation process.
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 22, 2019 9:29:56 GMT -5
Will the Seton Hall loss finally end our long national nightmare of hearing how we were "improved" at 9-9 in the Big East? Is this a serious statement? If you do not think we improved over last season, you are simply being biased. Did we make the NIT last season? Were we at any point considered one of the last 4 or next 4 out in the NCAAs last season? Were we not picked to finish 9th in the conference and finish well above that? Your statement is just a blatant effort to discredit the Hoyas or Ewing or whoever you don't like at Georgetown. Yes, the BE is down, that is why being 9-9 in conference got us a #3 seed in the NIT and not a #9/#10 seed in the NCAA like it would have in years past. Also, this ridiculous and dated thinking that the name on a the front of a jersey or a conference means a team cannot be good, went out of style about 15 years ago. It is funny, we use metrics to discredit the Hoyas but then ignore those same metrics that tell us just how good a "no name" team like Wofford can be. Murray St, who beat Marquette with an injured Marcus Howard, has a player that might go in the top 3 of this year's NBA draft - a player that would easily be the best player in nearly every conference outside of the ACC (and let's be honest really just Duke). Everyone is disappointed in the way the season ended, but this is getting ridiculous.
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 22, 2019 9:31:04 GMT -5
Didn't Otto say he was coming back when he was asked right after the NCAA loss? I would not put much stock in this, he would be foolish to not at least go through the evaluation process. He is a 6'2" shooting guard, he can certainly play in Europe, but the NBA is not a realistic option right now. He needs to migrate to the point to have any chance.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 22, 2019 13:16:23 GMT -5
Is that really the logic you subscribe to? Iowa is not taking into consideration that everyone not associated with Georgetown picked them to finish 9th....we finished tied for 3rd with 3 frosh and 1 soph as 4/5 of our starting 5 for the majority of the season....you can argue the amount of "improvement" but there is no arguing we "improved".... While it's great we finished "tied for 3rd," that's a little less meaningful when you tie with 3 other teams, essentially meaning that 4 teams "tied" for the 3rd-6th spots. One more loss and we would've been tied for 7th. So, yes, let's celebrate the improvement in our record and our "tied for 3rd" record but let's not put too much emphasis on that when it's simply not all that meaningful.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
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Post by prhoya on Mar 22, 2019 13:29:05 GMT -5
Iowa is not taking into consideration that everyone not associated with Georgetown picked them to finish 9th....we finished tied for 3rd with 3 frosh and 1 soph as 4/5 of our starting 5 for the majority of the season....you can argue the amount of "improvement" but there is no arguing we "improved".... While it's great we finished "tied for 3rd," that's a little less meaningful when you tie with 3 other teams, essentially meaning that 4 teams "tied" for the 3rd-6th spots. One more loss and we would've been tied for 7th. So, yes, let's celebrate the improvement in our record and our "tied for 3rd" record but let's not put too much emphasis on that when it's simply not all that meaningful. We finished 9-9, tied for 3rd, an improvement from Pat's first year and the coaches' and "experts'" pre-season predictions, and made the post-season. We're going in the right direction. Although we were worse in defense than last year, we can make a big jump in that department next year with the new additions, the subtractions, more experience and hopefully a new coach to help. There's no denying we improved. The bar is set for next year. As for numbers, IIRC we were a lot better in close games and OT games than Pat's first year.
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,402
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Post by iowa80 on Mar 22, 2019 13:44:48 GMT -5
Iowa is not taking into consideration that everyone not associated with Georgetown picked them to finish 9th....we finished tied for 3rd with 3 frosh and 1 soph as 4/5 of our starting 5 for the majority of the season....you can argue the amount of "improvement" but there is no arguing we "improved".... That doesn't fit the agenda to take down the basketball program and the Thompson's. Look, I was willing to take my lumps a bit on this one for a) forgetting the smiley; and b) saying something likely to annoy a reasonable number of people who viewed 9-9 in a vacuum as "improvement" in the team (BTW, others have addressed this with regard to our strikingly similar KenPom ranks). But that doesn't mean I really need to hear BS like the comment immediately above this one. In some ways, it's undeserving of a response, but in the interest of dialogue, let me start one by requesting that the author advance some or any evidence that I have had an "agenda" "to take down the basketball program and the Thompson's." And a mild apology would work too. Sorry to others for something that's OT in the thread.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 22, 2019 14:32:41 GMT -5
That doesn't fit the agenda to take down the basketball program and the Thompson's. Look, I was willing to take my lumps a bit on this one for a) forgetting the smiley; and b) saying something likely to annoy a reasonable number of people who viewed 9-9 in a vacuum as "improvement" in the team (BTW, others have addressed this with regard to our strikingly similar KenPom ranks). But that doesn't mean I really need to hear BS like the comment immediately above this one. In some ways, it's undeserving of a response, but in the interest of dialogue, let me start one by requesting that the author advance some or any evidence that I have had an "agenda" "to take down the basketball program and the Thompson's." And a mild apology would work too. Sorry to others for something that's OT in the thread. So you're saying you don't want to get rid of the Thompson's from the Georgetown's basketball program? Yes or No.
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hoya95
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,445
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Post by hoya95 on Mar 22, 2019 14:46:45 GMT -5
There's no actual way Virginia can lose this, right?
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,402
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Post by iowa80 on Mar 22, 2019 15:20:42 GMT -5
Look, I was willing to take my lumps a bit on this one for a) forgetting the smiley; and b) saying something likely to annoy a reasonable number of people who viewed 9-9 in a vacuum as "improvement" in the team (BTW, others have addressed this with regard to our strikingly similar KenPom ranks). But that doesn't mean I really need to hear BS like the comment immediately above this one. In some ways, it's undeserving of a response, but in the interest of dialogue, let me start one by requesting that the author advance some or any evidence that I have had an "agenda" "to take down the basketball program and the Thompson's." And a mild apology would work too. Sorry to others for something that's OT in the thread. So you're saying you don't want to get rid of the Thompson's from the Georgetown's basketball program? Yes or No. Sheesh. No. And I note that "take down the basketball program" has now disappeared from the previous accusation. There are few message board things more annoying than two people hashing out a largely off-topic discussion in front of others, so I'm not going to push this anymore other than to note I suggested two alternative in my last post and you took neither. Again, apologies to others for this.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Mar 22, 2019 15:37:06 GMT -5
There's no actual way Virginia can lose this, right? If that happens, maybe some of those UVA recruits open up. That would be beyond depressing for UVA but on a plus, it would be great for Hoya fans. Last year my first thought after the UMBC game was, thank god we no longer have the worst beat in NCAA history.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 22, 2019 15:38:21 GMT -5
For whatever reason, a lot of people take the approach that it you level criticism at an aspect of the program, particularly the coaching staff - no matter how realistic or based on fact - that it automatically means one or all of the following: (a) you’re a Debbie Downer, (b) you hate the Thompson’s, (c) you hate Ewing, (d) you want the program to fail, or (e) you’re not a real fan because you want us to lose.
Of course, this is all silly. Except for the rare trolls (who usually manage to get banned in short order anyway), I think everyone here wants the Hoyas to succeed.
I think there are legitimate concerns that can be raised about this year but also good things. Like prhoya said, I think there are plenty of things we can be positive about: the improved record, avoiding Wednesday at the BET, making the NIT, finishing tied for third, the emergence and success of the freshman, pretty good recruiting and talent evaluation, etc. So those are all great things and improvements.
On the other side, there are real concerns that I think are completely justified too: the inability to play any cohesive team defense (and no it’s not all Jessie Govan’s fault, contrary to popular opinion around here), the fact that based on analytics we may have been little improved from last season, the loss to a mid-major style team in the NIT (the types of losses that got JT3 so much ire over the years), the strategic blunders, little to no improvement among the sophomores, etc.
Personally, I think the biggest problem is the lack of defense considering the whole team is back except for Govan. And even if Yurtseven is better on defense, that’s not going to help enough if everyone else doesn’t step up too.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 22, 2019 15:50:21 GMT -5
Well said. We had some good individual defensive performances, but on the whole our defense was abysmal. We need to spend chunks of practice time on defensive drills as a unit, plus specific drills for individuals to work on over the summer. Rebounding included.
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,038
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 22, 2019 16:06:17 GMT -5
While defense is probably the biggest improvement priority, when our offense wasn’t clicking....it was really, really bad as well.
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HoyaDr
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 616
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Post by HoyaDr on Mar 22, 2019 17:14:18 GMT -5
Watching Paul White, healthy and playing well for Oregon, is kind of making me sick. I can't stop thinking about that recruiting class. We would've had so much talent from 2016-2018 if everything worked out. Obviously I'm dwelling on the past. Oh well.
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hoya95
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,445
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Post by hoya95 on Mar 22, 2019 17:19:26 GMT -5
Watching Paul White, healthy and playing well for Oregon, is kind of making me sick. I can't stop thinking about that recruiting class. We would've had so much talent from 2016-2018 if everything worked out. Obviously I'm dwelling on the past. Oh well. Just had that same thought. Would love to travel just for a moment to that alternate universe where that class worked out like we (or at least I) thought it would. But there's no mystery as to what White's issues were. He just got injured badly.
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HoyaDr
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 616
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Post by HoyaDr on Mar 22, 2019 17:26:17 GMT -5
Watching Paul White, healthy and playing well for Oregon, is kind of making me sick. I can't stop thinking about that recruiting class. We would've had so much talent from 2016-2018 if everything worked out. Obviously I'm dwelling on the past. Oh well. Just had that same thought. Would love to travel just for a moment to that alternate universe where that class worked out like we (or at least I) thought it would. But there's no mystery as to what White's issues were. He just got injured badly. Yea just unfortunate and bad luck. It didn't get any better with the others. Copeland didn't pan out under JT3, and LJ left (can't blame him). And we would've had Jessie and MD who were pretty good last season. And we may have had Waters last year too to run the show. That's quite a roster if you ask me. Too bad.
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