Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Nov 2, 2019 12:46:11 GMT -5
1. For the 3rd time, the NCAA shouldn't base their decision on what the student-athlete former athletic department has to say but they do have to have all the facts. What if credible evidence of tampering by the student athletes new school exist? 2. Not every transfer situation is like Rasheem Dunn's at Cleveland State. I also agree that he should be eligible. Out of all the waiver request, his is the easiest decision and the NCAA looks like idiots for declining his waiver (so far). 3. Lastly, did anybody consider the source that is alleging Georgetown is the reason Walker isn't immediately eligible. Goodman's history with Georgetown had never been good and even so worse under the Coach Ewing administration. Remember he was pimping Chris Mack hard for the job before they hired Coach Ewing. Then he poo-poed all over the hire of Coach Ewing every chance he got for over a year. No other media outlet is alleging any improper actions on part of the Hoyas program in regards to Walker's eligibility... If URI tampered with Walker Gtown should have reported that soon after the kid put his name in the portal, same goes for any other school. Possible tampering is a different discussion imo... The process seems to require the NCAA to speak with the previous school, with that comes the opportunities for bad decisions to be made, that's my point here... Dude...it's getting harder and harder to have a straight conversation with you because of all the SPIN. No one is implying tampering with Walker. Your original statement (paraphrasing) was that the NCAA should never talk to the previous coaches/athletic department when player transfers. I stated they should talk but it shouldn't have a barring on eligibility unless something nefarious occurred to facilitate the transfer. If they don't speak to all the parties they can't get the facts. Tampering in the transfer process happens more often then you think. It's usually facilitated through the AAU or high school coach. Sometimes the student athletes previous school/athletic department isn't even aware that tampering occurred. That's why the NCAA has to go in and talk with all parties. Maybe they can come across some information. Coach Willard just got busted for tampering with Taurean Thompson because the NCAA spoke with both schools involved in his transfer. Your argument is that it in every case the NCAA should never talk to the previous school of the student athlete. If that was the case then every devious coach would tamper directly with the student athletes...
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 2, 2019 12:47:12 GMT -5
There is 0 reason for Gtown to "restrict" him being eligible right away. More than likely it's what someone posted above that they told the truth that he got kicked off the team for fighting. It's irresponsible reporting (shocking from Goodman) to insinuate there was anything intentionally done to keep him from getting a waiver without any backup. Sadly it now looks bad on us. Why bother verifying anything when you can post "a source told me" on Twitter and it is immediately assumed to be true?
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Nov 2, 2019 12:54:04 GMT -5
There a huge difference between a kid leaving as a result of being recruited over (free agency at Kentucky) and a kid being expelled for a school violation. The school in the latter case doesn’t need to bend over backwards to ensure the player gets situated promptly elsewhere. At least if student-athlete has an iota of meaning any longer.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 2, 2019 12:56:27 GMT -5
As for the comments, a) consider the source and b) if you tell the NCAA or other schools the truth about what happened, any ‘negativity’ in the comments comes from the nature of the behavior being discussed, not the attitude of the speaker. Sometimes, the truth hurts Forget about Goodman, a poster in the URI link TC posted was saying Gtown wasn't being "cooperative" well before Goodman made his tweet... You didn't answer my question btw but I get why you didn't, sometimes the truth hurts... So we are basing this on what a poster on a URI message board - A POSTER ON A MESSAGE BOARD!! - says he was "told". Which was that Georgetown was not being "supportive" followed by a conspiracy speculation related to both schools recruiting in the DMV. Wow. Well from what I have been told, the only issue as it relates to Georgetown is whether or not we told the NCAA that the only reason Walker transferred was because we ran him off his scholarship, which would have allowed him to get a waiver. And which would have been a lie. So it is a bad look for Georgetown that we did not lie to the NCAA.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Nov 2, 2019 13:12:02 GMT -5
Forget about Goodman, a poster in the URI link TC posted was saying Gtown wasn't being "cooperative" well before Goodman made his tweet... You didn't answer my question btw but I get why you didn't, sometimes the truth hurts... So we are basing this on what a poster on a URI message board - A POSTER ON A MESSAGE BOARD!! - says he was "told". Which was that Georgetown was not being "supportive" followed by a conspiracy speculation related to both schools recruiting in the DMV. Wow. Well from what I have been told, the only issue as it relates to Georgetown is whether or not we told the NCAA that the only reason Walker transferred was because we ran him off his scholarship, which would have allowed him to get a waiver. And which would have been a lie. So it is a bad look for Georgetown that we did not lie to the NCAA. Hey, that message board post was probably Goodman’s “source” - total Edited. It doesn’t look bad for us because it’s not credible.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 2, 2019 13:19:06 GMT -5
If URI tampered with Walker Gtown should have reported that soon after the kid put his name in the portal, same goes for any other school. Possible tampering is a different discussion imo... The process seems to require the NCAA to speak with the previous school, with that comes the opportunities for bad decisions to be made, that's my point here... Dude...it's getting harder and harder to have a straight conversation with you because of all the SPIN. No one is implying tampering with Walker. Your original statement (paraphrasing) was that the NCAA should never talk to the previous coaches/athletic department when player transfers. I stated they should talk but it shouldn't have a barring on eligibility unless something nefarious occurred to facilitate the transfer. If they don't speak to all the parties they can't get the facts. Tampering in the transfer process happens more often then you think. It's usually facilitated through the AAU or high school coach. Sometimes the student athletes previous school/athletic department isn't even aware that tampering occurred. That's why the NCAA has to go in and talk with all parties. Maybe they can come across some information. Coach Willard just got busted for tampering with Taurean Thompson because the NCAA spoke with both schools involved in his transfer. Your argument is that it in every case the NCAA should never talk to the previous school of the student athlete. If that was the case then every devious coach would tamper directly with the student athletes... I've only had one single point in this back & forth and that point is that previous schools should be kept out of the waiver process... Baker got approved after playing in 28 games last season for Kentucky, including NCAA games because of Kentucky going to bat for him how is that right? You're the one who introduced tampering to the discussion... Not sure how my responses are spin but we can agree to disagree, no problem at all...
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Nov 2, 2019 13:41:49 GMT -5
My brain hurts reading this thread.
From what I've seen, waivers are granted for family/medical reasons, getting recruited over/not having their scholarship renewed, or abusive situations at the previous school (this is not an exhaustive list, just what I can think of). None of these apply to Walker. If the NCAA went to Georgetown and asked why he was dismissed, and Georgetown said it was disciplinary (who cares what it was for), then that is the facts. Georgetown is under no obligation to bend the facts.
Georgetown is not the bad guy in this situation. As usual, the NCAA is the bad guy for holding strict that Walker has to sit out two semesters after his transfer, even though he never played in a game last season.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Nov 2, 2019 13:42:41 GMT -5
Dude...it's getting harder and harder to have a straight conversation with you because of all the SPIN. No one is implying tampering with Walker. Your original statement (paraphrasing) was that the NCAA should never talk to the previous coaches/athletic department when player transfers. I stated they should talk but it shouldn't have a barring on eligibility unless something nefarious occurred to facilitate the transfer. If they don't speak to all the parties they can't get the facts. Tampering in the transfer process happens more often then you think. It's usually facilitated through the AAU or high school coach. Sometimes the student athletes previous school/athletic department isn't even aware that tampering occurred. That's why the NCAA has to go in and talk with all parties. Maybe they can come across some information. Coach Willard just got busted for tampering with Taurean Thompson because the NCAA spoke with both schools involved in his transfer. Your argument is that it in every case the NCAA should never talk to the previous school of the student athlete. If that was the case then every devious coach would tamper directly with the student athletes... I've only had one single point in this back & forth and that point is that previous schools should be kept out of the waiver process... Baker got approved after playing in 28 games last season for Kentucky, including NCAA games because of Kentucky going to bat for him how is that right? You're the one who introduced tampering to the discussion... Not sure how my responses are spin but we can agree to disagree, no problem at all... And EtomicB, Hoyas4Ever just brought up tampering as a hypothetical example as to why the NCAA should do due diligence with the former team. He didn't say URI tampered. You made that leap.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 2, 2019 14:14:27 GMT -5
I've only had one single point in this back & forth and that point is that previous schools should be kept out of the waiver process... Baker got approved after playing in 28 games last season for Kentucky, including NCAA games because of Kentucky going to bat for him how is that right? You're the one who introduced tampering to the discussion... Not sure how my responses are spin but we can agree to disagree, no problem at all... And EtomicB, Hoyas4Ever just brought up tampering as a hypothetical example as to why the NCAA should do due diligence with the former team. He didn't say URI tampered. You made that leap. My response was hypothetical too though right? I did say "if", I also added that goes for any other school and ended my thought by saying tampering is a different discussion... I wasn't trying to leap to anything since It came across that way to you or anyone else then that's my bad, it wasn't my intent... My point still stands that "if" a program thinks another program tampered with a player that should be reported well before a kid requests a waiver to play right away...
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 2, 2019 16:16:38 GMT -5
My brain hurts reading this thread. From what I've seen, waivers are granted for family/medical reasons, getting recruited over/not having their scholarship renewed, or abusive situations at the previous school (this is not an exhaustive list, just what I can think of). None of these apply to Walker. If the NCAA went to Georgetown and asked why he was dismissed, and Georgetown said it was disciplinary (who cares what it was for), then that is the facts. Georgetown is under no obligation to bend the facts. Georgetown probably did tell the truth from their side of things, but what does Georgetown gain here? They come out of this with : - URI/Cox probably mad at them - feeding people negative recruiting material (go there, want to transfer, you're going to have to sit out because Georgetown is going to screw you) - looking kinda petty, if you think this was related to DMV recruiting They gain : - crickets As to the people questioning the sources here, like what exactly are you questioning? Walker's waiver appeal was denied. There's a URI press release on that. Who's the other party here? Georgetown, and there are message board posts before the fact and Goodman saying that Georgetown was being unsupportive. We're supposed to not believe message board posts confirmed by a college basketball reporter because why exactly?
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Nov 2, 2019 16:33:57 GMT -5
My brain hurts reading this thread. From what I've seen, waivers are granted for family/medical reasons, getting recruited over/not having their scholarship renewed, or abusive situations at the previous school (this is not an exhaustive list, just what I can think of). None of these apply to Walker. If the NCAA went to Georgetown and asked why he was dismissed, and Georgetown said it was disciplinary (who cares what it was for), then that is the facts. Georgetown is under no obligation to bend the facts. Georgetown probably did tell the truth from their side of things, but what does Georgetown gain here? They come out of this with : - URI/Cox probably mad at them - feeding people negative recruiting material (go there, want to transfer, you're going to have to sit out because Georgetown is going to screw you) - looking kinda petty, if you think this was related to DMV recruiting They gain : - crickets As to the people questioning the sources here, like what exactly are you questioning? Walker's waiver appeal was denied. There's a URI press release on that. Who's the other party here? Georgetown, and there are message board posts before the fact and Goodman saying that Georgetown was being unsupportive. We're supposed to not believe message board posts confirmed by a college basketball reporter because why exactly? So are you proposing that Georgetown should have lied and said that they didn’t renew his scholarship or recruited over him? How is that not also a negative story for Georgetown?
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 2, 2019 16:39:27 GMT -5
So are you proposing that Georgetown should have lied and said that they didn’t renew his scholarship or recruited over him? How is that not also a negative story for Georgetown? I'm saying "he probably would not have played very much behind Pickett, LeBlanc, Mourning, Malinowski, Grayson Carter and Kaleb Johnson" is also the truth and one that probably gets him the waiver. There's usually a graceful way of dealing with things that also don't make your school look like the bad guy.
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Nov 2, 2019 16:49:10 GMT -5
My brain hurts reading this thread. From what I've seen, waivers are granted for family/medical reasons, getting recruited over/not having their scholarship renewed, or abusive situations at the previous school (this is not an exhaustive list, just what I can think of). None of these apply to Walker. If the NCAA went to Georgetown and asked why he was dismissed, and Georgetown said it was disciplinary (who cares what it was for), then that is the facts. Georgetown is under no obligation to bend the facts. Georgetown probably did tell the truth from their side of things, but what does Georgetown gain here? They come out of this with : - URI/Cox probably mad at them - feeding people negative recruiting material (go there, want to transfer, you're going to have to sit out because Georgetown is going to screw you) - looking kinda petty, if you think this was related to DMV recruiting They gain : - crickets As to the people questioning the sources here, like what exactly are you questioning? Walker's waiver appeal was denied. There's a URI press release on that. Who's the other party here? Georgetown, and there are message board posts before the fact and Goodman saying that Georgetown was being unsupportive. We're supposed to not believe message board posts confirmed by a college basketball reporter because why exactly?Because the reporter has demonstrated his bias against the program in question on multiple occasions and he has no access or connection with said program. The reporter is also the only outlet saying this about Georgetown. Do I really have to speak to the credibility of message boards?
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Nov 2, 2019 17:10:08 GMT -5
The NCAA for Division I basketball and football requires transfers to sit out a full year, if the transfer is not for hardship reasons. Once a semester begins and the player sits in on courses that counts as being in school. Walker isn't being penalized an extra semester as he started the school year last year at Georgetown. The same was the case with Chris Sodom the prior year. He transferred to GW, but wasn't going to be eligible until he sat out a school year (he didn't end up going to GW). Walker didn't enroll at Rhode Island until their second semester, which would mean sitting out until second semester this year.
If Walker had been removed from the team and dismissed in August rather than October he would be playing for the full season.
No hidden agenda, no conspiracy, but just the rules.
The NCAA will waive sitting out for instances where a family member dies or are ill and they move home to be closer to them. Also have done this with injury transfers (but the NCAA hasn't been consistent with this). They have also done this for players who have been discriminated against or have received abuse (racial taunts or threats, I thought Yurtseven would have been able to play given similar waiver requests).
The NCAA doesn't provide waivers for their rules for players who were dismissed for violence, substance problems, or other discipline matters. Kendrick Nunn of Miami Heat left Illinois after pleading to battery charge and transferred to Oakland University that transfer wasn't waiver eligible.
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 2, 2019 17:17:21 GMT -5
That's the way the rule is written, yes. The way the rule is practiced is that Jemari Baker appears in 28 games for Kentucky last year and gets a waiver to be eligible immediately. The NCAA gives an exception for "egregious behavior" on the part of the former school, and Calipari puts it to use every year by getting every one of the kids he forces out a waiver. The NCAA literally defines it as egregious behavior on the part of the program and never does anything to the schools practicing it, and Kentucky has practiced it so much they use it as a recruiting tool that if it does not work out you don't have to sit for a year.
Walker did not play all season and was dismissed from the team in early October and is ineligible.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Nov 2, 2019 17:27:04 GMT -5
That's the way the rule is written, yes. The way the rule is practiced is that Jemari Baker appears in 28 games for Kentucky last year and gets a waiver to be eligible immediately. Walker did not play all season and was dismissed from the team in early October and is ineligible. Jemari Baker applied for a waiver to play immediately because his playing time had been disrupted by injuries (out the full year 2017 to 2018), but also Arizona has 2 or 3 players out for the year because of injury. This is rather consistent with prior NCAA approved waivers. Baker's was approved because of the usual reason, hardship (particularly medical hardship or family hardship).
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Nov 2, 2019 17:29:08 GMT -5
So are you proposing that Georgetown should have lied and said that they didn’t renew his scholarship or recruited over him? How is that not also a negative story for Georgetown? I'm saying "he probably would not have played very much behind Pickett, LeBlanc, Mourning, Malinowski, Grayson Carter and Kaleb Johnson" is also the truth and one that probably gets him the waiver. There's usually a graceful way of dealing with things that also don't make your school look like the bad guy. If playing time/scholarship was the reason he transferred and he transferred on his own, then sure. But that’s not what happened. With the Georgetown press release about his dismissal, not sure how you walk that back. I feel like you’re talking about two very different situations. If you were talking about Carter, then sure I’d be right there with you. But we are talking about Walker who was dismissed from the team.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Nov 2, 2019 17:30:35 GMT -5
That's the way the rule is written, yes. The way the rule is practiced is that Jemari Baker appears in 28 games for Kentucky last year and gets a waiver to be eligible immediately. The NCAA gives an exception for "egregious behavior" on the part of the former school, and Calipari puts it to use every year by getting every one of the kids he forces out a waiver. The NCAA literally defines it as egregious behavior on the part of the program and never does anything to the schools practicing it, and Kentucky has practiced it so much they use it as a recruiting tool that if it does not work out you don't have to sit for a year. Walker did not play all season and was dismissed from the team in early October and is ineligible. The "season" doesn't make one difference as it has nothing to do with it. It is semester an Walker started the semester at Georgetown. He didn't start enrollment at Rhode Island until Spring. Had Walker been able to enroll that at Rhode Island last fall, he would be playing as he would have sat out a year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 17:54:47 GMT -5
Who is this Anquan Wilson and why should we care?
T minus 4.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Nov 2, 2019 22:39:30 GMT -5
So are you proposing that Georgetown should have lied and said that they didn’t renew his scholarship or recruited over him? How is that not also a negative story for Georgetown? I'm saying "he probably would not have played very much behind Pickett, LeBlanc, Mourning, Malinowski, Grayson Carter and Kaleb Johnson" is also the truth and one that probably gets him the waiver. There's usually a graceful way of dealing with things that also don't make your school look like the bad guy. This is false. That you include Malinowski and Carter is just laughable. We totally need a player like Walker even today. He is 6’9”. We sorely missed him last year.
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