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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 12, 2018 18:12:22 GMT -5
We took an absolute flyer on a guy that would need to learn on the job, but at 55 years old, how much upside is there anyway? College coaches are usually done by the time they're in their sixties, unless they're incredibly successful. By the time he was 55, JT2 was absolutely finished in terms of recruiting and putting in the hours necessary to suceed at the highest level - then he retired at age 58. And we expect a guy who's never done it before to come in, learn on the job, execute quickly, and bring us to success within a few years, only to be in his late-50s by the time that success is reached? The choice was absolutely one with risks given Ewing's unusual position (i.e., no college coaching experience), but I disagree pretty strongly on one point, and that is age. The reason why you don't see a lot of coaches in their 50s and 60s isn't because someone that age cannot coach well, it's because most coaches are bad and end up getting fired once or numerous times by the time they are that old (unless you are Dave Leitao and you get hired anyway). There are plenty of examples of older coaches, and it's not a coincidence they are often the good ones. To me, age is meaningless here. Either Patrick Ewing will be a good coach or not; age really has nothing to do with it. If he's not good, he will be replaced long before age is an issue, and if he's successful and enjoys the job, it's easy to see him being here another 15 years. The other issue is hard work. By all accounts, Ewing is a hard worker, and is putting in a lot of work at this job. While that doesn't guarantee success, if you're active and working hard, age really doesn't matter. Plus, I don't think his age will hurt in recruiting because his fame and background make up for that to some degree. Others can comment more intelligently on it than me, since I was a senior in high school and not yet following Georgetown basketball closely, but my sense from reading about it is that in the last few years John Thompson Jr. slowed down, and didn't quite have the passion he had earlier in his career. Maybe for him age did matter (I have no idea), but I do think it's noteworthy that 58 in 2018 is a lot different than it was when Thompson Jr. stepped down.
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Mar 12, 2018 18:43:34 GMT -5
Not sure 58 in 2018 is much different than in 1998, though I agree that age is meaningless. Full disclosure: I am speaking of someone who is a bit older than Ewing. I know myself, my friends, and have memories of my parents. The key to staying fresh at work is the ability to re-invent yourself. This means keeping on top of cultural shifts, but also wanting to make those changes. Also, it helps to shift roles a bit, as people inevitably get bored and need to find a way to keep things fresh. There are plenty who wait for retirement in misery.
Jr. had really lost the will to recruit. From his own reports, he lost his stomach for it and just didn't want to adapt to a changing landscape for recruits. He also had a messy divorce. Who knows how long he would have coached if it weren't for that divorce.
We know Ewing doesn't need to work. He seems up for the challenge and has the energy to commit himself to it. The results will determine the length of his tenure, not his age.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Mar 12, 2018 19:20:38 GMT -5
JT2 was different too. He always said he never had the luxury of just being a coach, X's and O's. There is enough pressure just with the X's and O's and recruiting. And he was never a fan of recruiting, even though he could do it when he felt like it. JT2 did his time and was ready to move on.
Calhoun would still be coaching if it weren't for the violations. Boheim is still coaching. Roy Williams. Steve Fisher. Coach K isn't slowing down anytime soon. Lute Olson coached into his 70's.
It all depends really.
Ewing is a young 55. Extra motivated because it is his school. He set out to be an NBA head coach, not college. Georgetown was his exception. Coaching-wise, Ewing worked his way up as an assistant and paid his dues just like most assistants.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 12, 2018 19:41:24 GMT -5
We took an absolute flyer on a guy that would need to learn on the job, but at 55 years old, how much upside is there anyway? College coaches are usually done by the time they're in their sixties, unless they're incredibly successful. By the time he was 55, JT2 was absolutely finished in terms of recruiting and putting in the hours necessary to suceed at the highest level - then he retired at age 58. And we expect a guy who's never done it before to come in, learn on the job, execute quickly, and bring us to success within a few years, only to be in his late-50s by the time that success is reached? The choice was absolutely one with risks given Ewing's unusual position (i.e., no college coaching experience), but I disagree pretty strongly on one point, and that is age. The reason why you don't see a lot of coaches in their 50s and 60s isn't because someone that age cannot coach well, it's because most coaches are bad and end up getting fired once or numerous times by the time they are that old (unless you are Dave Leitao and you get hired anyway). There are plenty of examples of older coaches, and it's not a coincidence they are often the good ones. To me, age is meaningless here. Either Patrick Ewing will be a good coach or not; age really has nothing to do with it. If he's not good, he will be replaced long before age is an issue, and if he's successful and enjoys the job, it's easy to see him being here another 15 years. The other issue is hard work. By all accounts, Ewing is a hard worker, and is putting in a lot of work at this job. While that doesn't guarantee success, if you're active and working hard, age really doesn't matter. Plus, I don't think his age will hurt in recruiting because his fame and background make up for that to some degree. Others can comment more intelligently on it than me, since I was a senior in high school and not yet following Georgetown basketball closely, but my sense from reading about it is that in the last few years John Thompson Jr. slowed down, and didn't quite have the passion he had earlier in his career. Maybe for him age did matter (I have no idea), but I do think it's noteworthy that 58 in 2018 is a lot different than it was when Thompson Jr. stepped down. Great analysis. Not many people get their dream job (e.g. Head Coach) at 55. He seemed really fresh all year. Hopefully, he will have a good runway left.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 15, 2018 19:39:03 GMT -5
NOW.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 15, 2018 19:41:53 GMT -5
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 15, 2018 19:45:07 GMT -5
Remember when some here were saying that the kids wouldn't know who Patrick is? With all the meet-and-greet that goes on when he enters a high school gym, everyone there knows they are in the presence of a Legend.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Dec 15, 2018 14:19:26 GMT -5
Another embarrassing loss to a mediocre team. Unforced turnovers, poor shot selection, lack of accountability, abysmally slow second half starts, inexcusably poor team and individual defensive fundamentals and effort, questionable substitution patterns, questionable use (or lack of use) of timeouts, lack of any discernible plan on offense, no identity as a team on either side of the ball. Currently, these seem to be the hallmarks of a Patrick Ewing coached team.
I am not convinced that the coaching staff is giving the kids the best chance to win in terms of either game preparation or in-game coaching.
Has to get better.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 15, 2018 16:55:04 GMT -5
Clock could have been better managed at the end of the Cuse game. So important to be aware of this in the moment. Today we lost to such a mediocre team at home. Uninspired basketball, except for LaBlanc who always seems to deliver.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Dec 15, 2018 17:01:59 GMT -5
I'm not calling for the lifeboats yet, but the point (valid IMO) was made in the game thread that it's hard to find wins under this regime attributable to game preparation and coaching. Sure players matter, but it's possible in the college game to "coach" wins when the talent disparity isn't too great. The ability to play/coach defense is obviously a particular area of concern here.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Dec 15, 2018 18:08:05 GMT -5
I'm not calling for the lifeboats yet, but the point (valid IMO) was made in the game thread that it's hard to find wins under this regime attributable to game preparation and coaching. Sure players matter, but it's possible in the college game to "coach" wins when the talent disparity isn't too great. The ability to play/coach defense is obviously a particular area of concern here. THIS ^^^^ Admittedly, I was not originally a fan of the Ewing hire, but certainly warmed to it when I saw some good signs last year, and then some good recruiting accompany it this off-season. However, doubts have crept back in as this team continually plays down to the opposition, has come out many a second half completely flat and/or unready for any adjustments the other team has made, on top of seemingly missing on every single '19 recruit we were targeting. I can count on one hand the moments where I have said, "Wow, that was a nice play call out of the timeout, or I like the switch to a zone here". While on the other hand, I run out of digits to count the face palm/head slap moments. Other than a nice win at Butler last year, and this year's win at Illinois (which is looking less good by the minute), there are no other games where we won when we shouldn't have. I know there are many ways to measure a coach, but to me this is usually as good an indicator as any, and frankly Patrick and the staff have little to point to in this category. I really felt this was a critical year for the program in terms of progress and changing the narrative. With Derrickson back I thought a tournament berth was not only possible but likely. Which then could have been followed up with some additional recruiting momentum. Instead, it will be another year without postseason play, and as someone pointed out, its no longer an aberration or even a trend - it's more the reality that this is not a good program. Rebuilding in college takes time, but the right coach changes the culture almost immediately. As much as I hate them, UConn looks like a totally different team just under 10 games under Danny Hurley. I really don't think they are far off from being relevant again. Same thing in Memphis with Penny Hardaway (some AAU connections won't hurt the cause either), and at Indiana with Archie Miller, and even NC State with Kevin Keatts. 1.5 years into the Ewing regime, we seem destined for the same if not a worse record in Year 2, and we are losing are best player at the end of this season with currently one of, if not the worst current recruiting class in the conference. I'm trying to stay optimistic, but a lot of my fears when we hired Ewing are creeping back into my head.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Dec 15, 2018 18:54:35 GMT -5
I'm not calling for the lifeboats yet, but the point (valid IMO) was made in the game thread that it's hard to find wins under this regime attributable to game preparation and coaching. Sure players matter, but it's possible in the college game to "coach" wins when the talent disparity isn't too great. The ability to play/coach defense is obviously a particular area of concern here. THIS ^^^^ Admittedly, I was not originally a fan of the Ewing hire, but certainly warmed to it when I saw some good signs last year, and then some good recruiting accompany it this off-season. However, doubts have crept back in as this team continually plays down to the opposition, has come out many a second half completely flat and/or unready for any adjustments the other team has made, on top of seemingly missing on every single '19 recruit we were targeting. I can count on one hand the moments where I have said, "Wow, that was a nice play call out of the timeout, or I like the switch to a zone here". While on the other hand, I run out of digits to count the face palm/head slap moments. Other than a nice win at Butler last year, and this year's win at Illinois (which is looking less good by the minute), there are no other games where we won when we shouldn't have. I know there are many ways to measure a coach, but to me this is usually as good an indicator as any, and frankly Patrick and the staff have little to point to in this category. I really felt this was a critical year for the program in terms of progress and changing the narrative. With Derrickson back I thought a tournament berth was not only possible but likely. Which then could have been followed up with some additional recruiting momentum. Instead, it will be another year without postseason play, and as someone pointed out, its no longer an aberration or even a trend - it's more the reality that this is not a good program. Rebuilding in college takes time, but the right coach changes the culture almost immediately. As much as I hate them, UConn looks like a totally different team just under 10 games under Danny Hurley. I really don't think they are far off from being relevant again. Same thing in Memphis with Penny Hardaway (some AAU connections won't hurt the cause either), and at Indiana with Archie Miller, and even NC State with Kevin Keatts. 1.5 years into the Ewing regime, we seem destined for the same if not a worse record in Year 2, and we are losing are best player at the end of this season with currently one of, if not the worst current recruiting class in the conference. I'm trying to stay optimistic, but a lot of my fears when we hired Ewing are creeping back into my head. Memphis is 5-5 with losses to Tenn Tech and Charleston, plus no wins to show for their tougher schedule. If we were 5-5 even with their schedule, I think folks would be more Editeded than they are now. UConn is 7-3, although they do have the Cuse win that we couldn’t get. I’ll give you Indiana, although they were 9-9 in the Big 10 last year and added 5 star stud Romeo Langford whose a better talent than anyone on our roster right now. And I agree Keatts did an amazing job at NC State getting into the tournament in year one. They too suffered some bad losses but earned quality wins during conference play.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Dec 15, 2018 19:33:30 GMT -5
I think the jury is still out on Patrick's coaching. I did NOT think it was his coaching that let us down today ( I was quite unhappy to have the frosh guards out most of the final minutes ag Cuse). There were many reasons we lost...all chronicled in the postgame thread. Jesse wasn't at his best offensively, and his defense is ghastly..with no chance it gets much better at this point. But when you shoot 22% from three point line..in today's basketball you usually lose.
I love the three freshman Patrick has brought it, but they will all have a steep learning curve. I am willing to withhold judgement on PE until we reach March.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Dec 15, 2018 20:17:58 GMT -5
THIS ^^^^ Admittedly, I was not originally a fan of the Ewing hire, but certainly warmed to it when I saw some good signs last year, and then some good recruiting accompany it this off-season. However, doubts have crept back in as this team continually plays down to the opposition, has come out many a second half completely flat and/or unready for any adjustments the other team has made, on top of seemingly missing on every single '19 recruit we were targeting. I can count on one hand the moments where I have said, "Wow, that was a nice play call out of the timeout, or I like the switch to a zone here". While on the other hand, I run out of digits to count the face palm/head slap moments. Other than a nice win at Butler last year, and this year's win at Illinois (which is looking less good by the minute), there are no other games where we won when we shouldn't have. I know there are many ways to measure a coach, but to me this is usually as good an indicator as any, and frankly Patrick and the staff have little to point to in this category. I really felt this was a critical year for the program in terms of progress and changing the narrative. With Derrickson back I thought a tournament berth was not only possible but likely. Which then could have been followed up with some additional recruiting momentum. Instead, it will be another year without postseason play, and as someone pointed out, its no longer an aberration or even a trend - it's more the reality that this is not a good program. Rebuilding in college takes time, but the right coach changes the culture almost immediately. As much as I hate them, UConn looks like a totally different team just under 10 games under Danny Hurley. I really don't think they are far off from being relevant again. Same thing in Memphis with Penny Hardaway (some AAU connections won't hurt the cause either), and at Indiana with Archie Miller, and even NC State with Kevin Keatts. 1.5 years into the Ewing regime, we seem destined for the same if not a worse record in Year 2, and we are losing are best player at the end of this season with currently one of, if not the worst current recruiting class in the conference. I'm trying to stay optimistic, but a lot of my fears when we hired Ewing are creeping back into my head. Memphis is 5-5 with losses to Tenn Tech and Charleston, plus no wins to show for their tougher schedule. If we were 5-5 even with their schedule, I think folks would be more Editeded than they are now. UConn is 7-3, although they do have the Cuse win that we couldn’t get. I’ll give you Indiana, although they were 9-9 in the Big 10 last year and added 5 star stud Romeo Langford whose a better talent than anyone on our roster right now. And I agree Keatts did an amazing job at NC State getting into the tournament in year one. They too suffered some bad losses but earned quality wins during conference play. Memphis probably doesn’t belong in the discussion but their recent recruiting will transform them overnight. Uconn is 7-3 with losses to Iowa, Arizona, and Florida St. Three teams better than anyone we have played.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Dec 15, 2018 20:33:51 GMT -5
We miss Marcus.
Thought we would take a step back this year with Marcus gone.
Ask yourself this, and be honest:
1) Who on our roster would start for another Big East team?
2) If not a starter, who would get substantial playing time off of the bench.
3) Would our record be better this year, if Jay Wright or Ed Cooley were the coach?
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Post by ewingitrust on Dec 15, 2018 20:58:15 GMT -5
Long season folks....Blair and Pickett have been benched because he expects more from 2 All-Big East freshmen last year. Tough love is necessary. The team has talent. A top 4-5 standing in the conference is still attainable. A postseason berth whether its nit or ncaa is still in reach. I'm going to root for the team and i trust the staff recruiting wise...conference play and bet tourney is where we can still show progress. Patience folks...
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Dec 15, 2018 22:06:52 GMT -5
Long season folks....Blair and Pickett have been benched because he expects more from 2 All-Big East freshmen last year. Tough love is necessary. The team has talent. A top 4-5 standing in the conference is still attainable. A postseason berth whether its nit or ncaa is still in reach. I'm going to root for the team and i trust the staff recruiting wise...conference play and bet tourney is where we can still show progress. Patience folks... Look, everyone on this Board is a fan but we are all realists. The OOC schedule has exposed our major weakness, our defense. You can't win at this level if you can't get stops and we can't. I think we forced maybe one turnover today. I can think of only 2-3 times where we forced SMU to take a bad or forced shot. And over this OOC schedule how many wide open 3's have our opponents had? I'm beginning to think PE has to take a good hard look at what he has and settle on a solid starting 5 (Mackinjo, Govan, LeBlanc and Malinowski). Sub sparingly with probably Pickett and Mosley off the bench. Going 8-9 deep adds nothing. And make sure to play the sh#t out of the freshmen. Face it, they are our future so let them learn.
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Post by wponds on Dec 15, 2018 22:27:58 GMT -5
Long season folks....Blair and Pickett have been benched because he expects more from 2 All-Big East freshmen last year. Tough love is necessary. The team has talent. A top 4-5 standing in the conference is still attainable. A postseason berth whether its nit or ncaa is still in reach. I'm going to root for the team and i trust the staff recruiting wise...conference play and bet tourney is where we can still show progress. Patience folks... Look, everyone on this Board is a fan but we are all realists. The OOC schedule has exposed our major weakness, our defense. You can't win at this level if you can't get stops and we can't. I think we forced maybe one turnover today. I can think of only 2-3 times where we forced SMU to take a bad or forced shot. And over this OOC schedule how many wide open 3's have our opponents had? I'm beginning to think PE has to take a good hard look at what he has and settle on a solid starting 5 (Mackinjo, Govan, LeBlanc and Malinowski). Sub sparingly with probably Pickett and Mosley off the bench. Going 8-9 deep adds nothing. And make sure to play the sh#t out of the freshmen. Face it, they are our future so let them learn. Agreed. Got to hash out this rotation as soon as possible. Going 8-9 deep is fine for some teams, but not this roster. Mourning, in particular, should only get minutes when Jessie is gassed or in foul trouble.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Dec 15, 2018 22:47:42 GMT -5
We miss Marcus. Thought we would take a step back this year with Marcus gone. Ask yourself this, and be honest: 1) Who on our roster would start for another Big East team? 2) If not a starter, who would get substantial playing time off of the bench. 3) Would our record be better this year, if Jay Wright or Ed Cooley were the coach? 1.) Govan for sure and Akinjo could depending on the team (Providence starts a freshman in Duke) 2.) LeBlanc, Mac, Pickett, and possibly Greg 3.) IMO we’d have won the Syracuse game and at least one of LMUor SMU. Our roster is not nearly as short on talent as some believe. Top to bottom we are in the ballpark talent wise with PC, Seton Hall, DePaul, Creighton, Butler; I’ll only give you SJ, Nova, and Narquette as THAT much more talented than us.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Dec 15, 2018 22:57:14 GMT -5
Long season folks....Blair and Pickett have been benched because he expects more from 2 All-Big East freshmen last year. Tough love is necessary. The team has talent. A top 4-5 standing in the conference is still attainable. A postseason berth whether its nit or ncaa is still in reach. I'm going to root for the team and i trust the staff recruiting wise...conference play and bet tourney is where we can still show progress. Patience folks... Look, everyone on this Board is a fan but we are all realists. The OOC schedule has exposed our major weakness, our defense. You can't win at this level if you can't get stops and we can't. I think we forced maybe one turnover today. I can think of only 2-3 times where we forced SMU to take a bad or forced shot. And over this OOC schedule how many wide open 3's have our opponents had? I'm beginning to think PE has to take a good hard look at what he has and settle on a solid starting 5 (Mackinjo, Govan, LeBlanc and Malinowski). Sub sparingly with probably Pickett and Mosley off the bench. Going 8-9 deep adds nothing. And make sure to play the sh#t out of the freshmen. Face it, they are our future so let them learn. Maybe depth helps defensively? It is early in the season, and maybe Ewing is playing a lot of guys to see what he has before the upcoming in-conference schedule. Blair is only sophomore. What about his development too? We probably are going to have an up and down year, mainly because the players with most "potential" are underclassmen outside of Jesse. Defensively, what adjustments can we make? Does our wanting to play uptempo hurt our defense? Do we run any type of pack line defense? Would that help?
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