EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 11, 2018 16:56:12 GMT -5
Big picture-wise, the Cooley projection is PC. How much farther can he take Providence? It is Providence. Pitino, Guillen and Barnes all left for bigger jobs from Providence. If Cooley wasn't a native, he might have left too. He has done a great job. Are people cool with what Cooley is doing at Providence? Would that be okay at Georgetown? Short-term? Well, yeah given these last 3 years. Long-term? Maybe not. The ceiling is lower at Providence than it is at Georgetown, historically speaking. Pat didn't come back build this program for first round exits. What is the point of this entire thread? Is Pat a decent coach? A lot of that is based on one's perception and the program the coach runs. Cooley is more than a decent coach at Providence. With those same results At Kentucky or even Maryland? Not so much. After III had early success, he was criticized for high seeds and early round exits. Who knows how far Cooley can take PC, recruiting wise he's set up to make a leap imo.. I'm not sure why that's even a relevant question in this discussion, my point remains that I would be happy if PE builds Gtown on the same pace Cooley has built PC.. If your point is that the ultimate goal at Gtown should be to become a perennial top 20 program, that's fine but Gtown still needs to have realistic short term goals in order to get there.. To me consistently finishing in the top 5 of the BE & making the big dance the way PC has is a nice short term goal.. Of course PE didn't come back to lose in the 1st round but what's worse missing the tourney or losing in the 1st round of the tourney? I just don't see how being fine with PE having an Ed Cooley start to his coaching career can be considered settling for a program with Gtown's recent record..
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 11, 2018 16:58:16 GMT -5
Early exits in the NCAA's? Wasn't that one of the main gripes with III? Even before two straight losing seasons. Interesting. At Providence it is great, given it is....well...Providence. In the past, Wright and Nova were considered the standard that we should maintain/reach. Now it is Cooley and Providence? Very interesting. Way - would you be happy with making the NCAA's in 19-20, then at least the next 4 years? That is the "trajectory" I was talking about. I wasn't dissecting the NCAA performances themselves. Let's worry about that when we actually get there.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Mar 11, 2018 17:19:30 GMT -5
Early exits in the NCAA's? Wasn't that one of the main gripes with III? Even before two straight losing seasons. Interesting. At Providence it is great, given it is....well...Providence. In the past, Wright and Nova were considered the standard that we should maintain/reach. Now it is Cooley and Providence? Very interesting. Way - would you be happy with making the NCAA's in 19-20, then at least the next 4 years? That is the "trajectiry" I was talking about. I wasn't dissecting the NCAS performances themselves. Let's worry about that when we actually get there. Usually, year 3 is what people tend to expect a shift upward with a program. Bennett took UVA to the NCAA's in year 3. Wright took Nova in 4. Cooley took Providence in 3. Oddly enough, Coach K took Duke in 4. This is a 4-5 year rebuild. I know we are returning guys, but this core group only won 5 Big East games. Other teams are developing players and recruiting players too. Are the fans willing to wait that long? What kind of program do the fans expect long term? Providence, Seton Hall or Xavier,Nova?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 11, 2018 18:34:10 GMT -5
The ceiling is lower at Providence than it is at Georgetown, historically speaking. I agree with this, but when you base ceiling solely on the NCAA tournament, we have 3 appearances in the Sweet 16+ in the last 20 years. That's not a stellar record. Now, I don't view "success" as consisting solely of making it to the Sweet 16+ - to me, getting to the tournament and having a high seed is really crucial, and that's why I thought JT3 was a valuable coach in the years where we blew the NCAA games. Finding any coach who can consistently get a team to the NCAA tournament is often taken for granted - it's a lot more difficult than it seems. Really, I think what will ultimately answer where Ewing stands is how he recruits and how those recruits perform - something we just don't know yet.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Mar 11, 2018 18:38:30 GMT -5
That's why I love this board. We are a bunch of Hoya fans, i.e. short for fanatics. I assure you that not many folks, even Hoya alums and nominal Hoya fans, are still talking Hoya bball.
I don't see how anyone can look at anyone but Nova as our role model. Okay, so they stumbled and lost the BE regular season championship by one game. But look at their record in the new BE. And the fact that THEY WON A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP! And they did it without any one and dones, lottery picks, or prostitutes. They have done a wonderful job representing our conference and they show no sign of dropping to our level anytime soon. Jay Wright and his staff have figured it out. Recruiting, player development, in game coaching. They have to be what we expect long term.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 11, 2018 18:51:48 GMT -5
I'm very anxious to see how decision making and use of timeouts improve especially from the coaching staff. I think with a point guard with a high bball IQ, tough and leader this is where a player like McClung can help. How much? I'd say add another point guard with high bball IQ and Ol'Mac would help the Hoyas out a great deal? You think? It was really high iqish, interesting & fun watching how great, not good but, again,how great, McClung made his teammates each practice and games. The TRUST & COMMUNICATION OMG was simply AMAZING and I don't care what level it was on. This what point guards do and a HUGE part of his job. McClung is a coach on the court. It is he that must bring this team together by thinking and doing these same things he's been doing on the basketball court.
pgcbasketball.com/blog
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 11, 2018 19:01:04 GMT -5
Read a few comments As far as the Big East Tourney and NCAA's next season. This is all depending on CHEMISTRY a huge part of Coach Ewing and his point guard Ol' Mac. Starts there. Some good ole team bonding. Do almost everything as a team as soon as the freshmen arrive. Start if off right, then keep it. Communication on the court will be easier. As a a matter of fact, "we know this mannnnn." Cheer for each other in Kenner action even if their team isn't playing.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 11, 2018 19:10:29 GMT -5
That's why I love this board. We are a bunch of Hoya fans, i.e. short for fanatics. I assure you that not many folks, even Hoya alums and nominal Hoya fans, are still talking Hoya bball. I don't see how anyone can look at anyone but Nova as our role model. Okay, so they stumbled and lost the BE regular season championship by one game. But look at their record in the new BE. And the fact that THEY WON A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP! And they did it without any one and dones, lottery picks, or prostitutes. They have done a wonderful job representing our conference and they show no sign of dropping to our level anytime soon. Jay Wright and his staff have figured it out. Recruiting, player development, in game coaching. They have to be what we expect long term. 'Nova is the goal long term. But you gotta crawl before you can walk. Let's get to Providence level in a couple of years and go from there.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 11, 2018 19:22:31 GMT -5
When a coach keeps saying, "he's the mature person on our team including the coaching staff and even me." -Jay Wright on his floor general Jalen Brunson. You always want to recruit point guards like him or close as possible as this.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 11, 2018 19:23:43 GMT -5
That's why I love this board. We are a bunch of Hoya fans, i.e. short for fanatics. I assure you that not many folks, even Hoya alums and nominal Hoya fans, are still talking Hoya bball. I don't see how anyone can look at anyone but Nova as our role model. Okay, so they stumbled and lost the BE regular season championship by one game. But look at their record in the new BE. And the fact that THEY WON A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP! And they did it without any one and dones, lottery picks, or prostitutes. They have done a wonderful job representing our conference and they show no sign of dropping to our level anytime soon. Jay Wright and his staff have figured it out. Recruiting, player development, in game coaching. They have to be what we expect long term. 'Nova is the goal long term. But you gotta crawl before you can walk. Let's get to Providence level in a couple of years and go from there. Good point but we will always be concerned about end of crucial game calls/situations.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 11, 2018 19:26:16 GMT -5
'Nova is the goal long term. But you gotta crawl before you can walk. Let's get to Providence level in a couple of years and go from there. Good point but we will always be concerned about end of crucial game calls/situations. Every team is. Again, one of my points was that Cooley was pretty bad at end game his first 2-3 years as a head coach.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Mar 11, 2018 19:38:44 GMT -5
Good point but we will always be concerned about end of crucial game calls/situations. Every team is. Again, one of my points was that Cooley was pretty bad at end game his first 2-3 years as a head coach.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 11, 2018 19:43:29 GMT -5
Certainly true. Hopefully with experience Patrick will improve!
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 12, 2018 14:08:39 GMT -5
Good point but we will always be concerned about end of crucial game calls/situations. Every team is. Again, one of my points was that Cooley was pretty bad at end game his first 2-3 years as a head coach. Cooley is an interesting comparison. He's currently 48 years old. He got the Fairfield job in 2006 at age 36, after being an assistant under Al Skinner at BC for 9 seasons. During his stint at Fairfield, he went 92-69, wasn't really a sexy pick when hired by Providence in 2011. However, he got a ton of experience at the D1 level before making it to the head spot at a Big East program...plenty of time to cut his teeth recruiting and in-game coaching (including "end game" situations). Alternatively, Ewing was hired at age 55 without any college coaching experience nor any head coaching experience at any level. Yes, he was a 15-year NBA assistant and was a superstar at the highest level. But how many guys with those credentials have gone on to be great college head coaches? Drexler was bad, Mullin's bad, literally are there any examples of guys like that going to the highest level of Division One and succeeding? We took an absolute flyer on a guy that would need to learn on the job, but at 55 years old, how much upside is there anyway? College coaches are usually done by the time they're in their sixties, unless they're incredibly successful. By the time he was 55, JT2 was absolutely finished in terms of recruiting and putting in the hours necessary to suceed at the highest level - then he retired at age 58. And we expect a guy who's never done it before to come in, learn on the job, execute quickly, and bring us to success within a few years, only to be in his late-50s by the time that success is reached?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 12, 2018 14:24:38 GMT -5
While I would certainly agree that there are questions as to whether Ewing will succeed, your comparison to Drexler and Mullins ignores the fact that neither one of them had ever been an assistant, much less a head coach, at ANY level before being named head coach at his alma mater. Patrick's 15 years of coaching experience gives him a much different foundation. Of course the NBA is a different animal, and not everything learned there will translate to college; similarly, being the head man has much different needs and stresses. But you can't simply ignore the experience entirely.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 12, 2018 14:37:36 GMT -5
We took an absolute flyer on a guy that would need to learn on the job, but at 55 years old, how much upside is there anyway? Compared to where we were, there was absolutely massive upside - a chance to re-establish ourselves to where we were in the late 80s and early 90s.....where Top 10 rankings were commonplace. PE has the potential to become an elite recruiter with as much or more celebrity than any coach in the sport. If he can only get the proverbial dominos to start to fall...once they start falling the pipelines will open. Hopefully MD+JG+ Pickett + Blair + Mac + Leblanc + Carter will create the excitement we need to overcome the recruiting inertia that has befallen the Hoyas for a couple of years.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Mar 12, 2018 15:23:00 GMT -5
Serious question in a not so serious thread - Patrick's experience coaching all came as an assistant, where he was pretty much bound to stay 'behind the scenes' before, during and after the game. One moderately valid criticism I have heard of him this year is that he is not very vocal on the sideline. Sure he calls out plays and communicates with his team, but folks wanted him to work the refs more, get up in their faces when the calls were off. There were a couple of times I noticed this and wish he would have gotten T'd up more (my recollection is one tech for ref abuse, maybe I missed one). The question is this - has he simply learned the habit of not being to vocal and, the corollary, will he unlearn that habit in a year or two and become more adept at picking the time and place to unload on the striped jerseys? I tend to think that he has one set of habits from his assistant days and this is just an area he will need to work into. maybe that is not his style and he will never be big on jawing with/at the refs, but I am optimistic that he can develop a productive style of standing up for his guys with a little more time as head man.
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 12, 2018 15:33:39 GMT -5
Serious question in a not so serious thread - Patrick's experience coaching all came as an assistant, where he was pretty much bound to stay 'behind the scenes' before, during and after the game. One moderately valid criticism I have heard of him this year is that he is not very vocal on the sideline. Sure he calls out plays and communicates with his team, but folks wanted him to work the refs more, get up in their faces when the calls were off. There were a couple of times I noticed this and wish he would have gotten T'd up more (my recollection is one tech for ref abuse, maybe I missed one). The question is this - has he simply learned the habit of not being to vocal and, the corollary, will he unlearn that habit in a year or two and become more adept at picking the time and place to unload on the striped jerseys? I tend to think that he has one set of habits from his assistant days and this is just an area he will need to work into. maybe that is not his style and he will never be big on jawing with/at the refs, but I am optimistic that he can develop a productive style of standing up for his guys with a little more time as head man. You and I must have been watching a different guy. To me he was very vocal, worked the refs often, and if he was anyone other than Patrick Ewing he wouldve gotten more than his share of techs. He had to be restrained by Orr on a couple occasions where he didn’t get T’ed up but probably should have.
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Post by wrestlemania on Mar 12, 2018 16:10:48 GMT -5
This. They just didn't have the horses. And anyone who thinks that he's on the typical 3-4 year cycle to prove himself does not understand how things work at Georgetown. We fired JT3 the year we opened a training facility with his father's name on it. "Georgetown is different" doesn't work like that anymore - if he loses the fanbase in 3 years, he'll lose his recruiting class and he'll be gone. "Georgetown is different" worked in the era before social media. I doubt the administration can hold the line against fan sentiment nowadays. True, they did sack JTIII shortly after they opened the new athletic center. But then they promptly reverted to form by selecting a successor hand-picked by JTII without really talking to anyone else. Things haven't changed that much.
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Post by wrestlemania on Mar 12, 2018 16:16:41 GMT -5
We fired JT3 the year we opened a training facility with his father's name on it. "Georgetown is different" doesn't work like that anymore - if he loses the fanbase in 3 years, he'll lose his recruiting class and he'll be gone. "Georgetown is different" worked in the era before social media. I doubt the administration can hold the line against fan sentiment nowadays. True, they did sack JTIII not that long after they opened the new athletic center. But then they promptly reverted to form by selecting a successor hand-picked by JTII without really talking to anyone else. Things haven't changed that much.
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