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Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Jan 10, 2019 10:52:58 GMT -5
2003, I like a lot of your comments, but I stand by what I said. If we wanted a quick fix, we hire a Tom Crean type, who would have been better initially given his experience and ready AAU connections, but we know he's not great. Ewing will learn on the job as anyone who takes on a new job does. All of the great ones were not great from day one. Once Ewing was hired, I realized we are looking at a longterm fix. High risk, offset by a potential bigger upside than if we had gone with a recycled coach. I'm encouraged that Ewing is putting in the effort to be great at what he does. I'm very excited about the freshman class, the type of players Ewing has identified in recruiting and the style of offensive play he's committed to. I'm not making excuses. I'm being realistic. I want us to win games NOW, but I realize our ceiling is more limited given the role players we have asked to do too much. The best chance to succeed imo is to develop the freshmen who have way more upside, but are going to make freshman mistakes, so that the role players can go back to doing what they can do.
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Jan 10, 2019 11:33:36 GMT -5
Ewing is struggling mightily at the moment translating the basic hoops end-of-game stuff that I'm sure he knows to a roster loaded with freshmen and betas. That is on him; he has to learn how to teach that stuff and communicate it better even to youngsters and guys you don't want in the crucible. I guess I'm readily willing to excuse that if that is his greatest failing. But Coach Pat has GOT to be able to go out and close a meaningful frontcourt impact player in this class or we aren't likely to take much of a step forward next season with Govan leaving and Yurt possibly leaving. I love the three frosh this season - love their hearts, upside and dog. But none of the three was an elite recruit. Given what I've seen from Pat's teams so far, they need a knockout player to thrive. He hasn't been able to recruit that player yet (though I think LeBlanc is a pro), and that to me is quite startling (maybe the biggest of several red flags).
I think he's going to get better at communicating and adjusting/reacting (think last night's disaster when X went zone and we imploded). But I don't ever think that will be his calling card, so he'd better amp up his recruiting game...significantly, or I don't see him as the answer. It's not a you build it and they will come deal at GU. You've got to vision cast and punch way above your weight class with an Anthony or the like to start the engine if you're not an Xs and Os guru -- which he's not fellas.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 10, 2019 11:58:18 GMT -5
One of the key thngs Xavier's coach and players cited (over and above the 2-3 zone) was playing their 2 big guys together; and Ewing said they weren't ready for that look (apparently X had not done it yet this year, having not watched any of their games I have no idea if it is true). On the surface it sounds like it didn't occur as something to prepare for pregame, which could be true, but that answer could also reflect that with Mourning injured there isn't a second option. I love LeBlanc, but he's gonna have a hard time keeping the X rec league center away from the rim and we only saw Carter for 2 minutes but it's clear he could not either. Not saying Mourning is an elite defender but he is the only current other option.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 10, 2019 12:11:10 GMT -5
2003, I understand the frustration and also shared many of the same concerns you had when he was hired. The jury is still out in my mind and my point is it is truly difficult to evaluate him after the series of meltdowns they have had recently, because it is hard to separate frustration from objectivity. As for his prior experience, I had no such expectations that he would have learned much about in-game strategy or rotations in the role of NBA assistant, given the coahes he worked for. Nor did I expect that he would be very skilled in coaching defense based upon the NBA experience. That was not his job from what I understand. I do not like the NBA for the very reason that there is so little defense played or encouraged. I think taht he came as basically an unproven coach who had experience working with players outside of the game environment. Seems to me they chose a long term "developmental" situation when they picked Ewing over a person with college coaching experience. Whether that is the right call or not can be debated but it is where we stand today.
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Jan 10, 2019 12:24:48 GMT -5
One of the key thngs Xavier's coach and players cited (over and above the 2-3 zone) was playing their 2 big guys together; and Ewing said they weren't ready for that look (apparently X had not done it yet this year, having not watched any of their games I have no idea if it is true). On the surface it sounds like it didn't occur as something to prepare for pregame, which could be true, but that answer could also reflect that with Mourning injured there isn't a second option. I love LeBlanc, but he's gonna have a hard time keeping the X rec league center away from the rim and we only saw Carter for 2 minutes but it's clear he could not either. Not saying Mourning is an elite defender but he is the only current other option. One thing I wish people would stop is saying that Xavier was using a "rec league center." Hankens deserves more respect than that and so does the Xavier coaching staff. Give them credit for having found someone who will be a valuable player in this conference. I had seen Xavier play before and Hankens impressed me then. Jones also played well. The announcer clearly knew Xavier well and he talked alot about how this was the first game with both of them on the floor, and it worked. Sometimes, you just have to tip your cap. [TBH I have always regarded a major flaw in scouting basketball talent that players, specifically bigs, have to prove themselves in high school at a time when they are just adjusting to their bodies. The fact that he started in D2 is kind of irrelevant to me. Would it have been more productive that he redshirted somewhere first? Anyway, I kind of expect the majority of them to be slow to develop.]
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Jan 10, 2019 12:32:26 GMT -5
Let me start out by saying that I was strongly AGAINST Ewing's hire. I wanted to see an experienced younger recruiter with no ties to the current administration and the Thompsons rebuild fresh. Having said that, I find it mind-boggling the criticism and overall tone of many Hoya fans toward Ewing and his coaching.
JT3 left the cupboard bare for Ewing. I mean absolutely freaking empty. This was a rebuild from the bowels and we all knew it. Ewing has been head coaching for 1.5 seasons. Less than TWO years. How many rebuilds take less than 3 years, usually 4? We all asked, begged, pleaded for a modern offense. For faster pace. For more exciting games. For upgraded talent. For a guard or two that could penetrate, utilize pick and roll. For some players who can play above the rim. And hes delivered on every one of those fronts in short order.
If you thought this Gtown team Starting 3 freshman and a sophomore (when healthy hopefully), with a Senior Captain holdover that makes little to no effort on defense, and a low talent bench was going to be contending in the big east then I dont know what to tell you. Play the lottery.
Ewing is far from perfect, and needs seasoning in certain college ball game management, but the many detractors on here and twitter either have a bad case of confirmation bias or unrealistic expectations. This is a program on an upward trajectory. And the constant bashing and negativity is incredibly tone deaf and counter productive.
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Jan 10, 2019 12:33:13 GMT -5
One of the key thngs Xavier's coach and players cited (over and above the 2-3 zone) was playing their 2 big guys together; and Ewing said they weren't ready for that look (apparently X had not done it yet this year, having not watched any of their games I have no idea if it is true). On the surface it sounds like it didn't occur as something to prepare for pregame, which could be true, but that answer could also reflect that with Mourning injured there isn't a second option. I love LeBlanc, but he's gonna have a hard time keeping the X rec league center away from the rim and we only saw Carter for 2 minutes but it's clear he could not either. Not saying Mourning is an elite defender but he is the only current other option. Sorry. I think you have given up on Carter too soon! For whatever reason, he has played the least of all of our freshmen. He demonstrates good fundamentals but hasn't found his rhythm yet. He's the closest to a center that we have. I would recommend that we keep going to him in spurts and allow him to shoot, until he finds his rhythm. He will help us in the long run.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2019 12:40:18 GMT -5
I don't think Dan has "given up" on Carter at all, just recognized that right now he is not ready to defend at this level.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Jan 10, 2019 12:53:46 GMT -5
One of the key thngs Xavier's coach and players cited (over and above the 2-3 zone) was playing their 2 big guys together; and Ewing said they weren't ready for that look (apparently X had not done it yet this year, having not watched any of their games I have no idea if it is true). On the surface it sounds like it didn't occur as something to prepare for pregame, which could be true, but that answer could also reflect that with Mourning injured there isn't a second option. I love LeBlanc, but he's gonna have a hard time keeping the X rec league center away from the rim and we only saw Carter for 2 minutes but it's clear he could not either. Not saying Mourning is an elite defender but he is the only current other option. It's almost like the Xavier coaches scouted us and realized where we were weak. For some reason they chose to not start out in it but they realized what they need to do to win and effectively changed their entire game plan immediately. I wonder if our coaches realized we were playing the 260th ranked 3P shooting team, that ending up shooting 3 of 13, had a weakness that we should force them into. I get we were outmatched but Pat of anyone should've known how to scheme a way to take away the post. He was the recipient of it many times. He went 2-3 for a blip they made a contested 3 and he just seemingly gave up on it. We didn't double hard in the post, which we never do, and kind of just let them get the ball where they wanted to. Meanwhile they played far from what I would consider a tough 2-3 zone. How many times did we even do the basic task of getting the ball to the free throw line? It was all just frustrating to watch. The players are not to be exonerated as they made some questionable decisions, but as I mentioned in the game thread they sure didn't look prepared. Pat also all but gave up on Jamorko and Josh in the 2nd half when those are our 2 best defenders. I can only guess he was trying to outscore Xavier. We more so than most teams need stops to be able to score.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Jan 10, 2019 13:08:33 GMT -5
JT3 left the cupboard bare for Ewing. I mean absolutely freaking empty. This was a rebuild from the bowels and we all knew it. Ewing has been head coaching for 1.5 seasons. Less than TWO years. How many rebuilds take less than 3 years, usually 4? We all asked, begged, pleaded for a modern offense. For faster pace. For more exciting games. For upgraded talent. For a guard or two that could penetrate, utilize pick and roll. For some players who can play above the rim. And hes delivered on every one of those fronts in short order. I've seen this cupboard bare argument all over the place so I am not just calling you out but it has to be addressed. Last year 5 or 6 (depending if Antwan was part of the cupboard) of the 9 were JT3 holdovers. They were 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th in efficiency. This year 4 out of the 10 man rotation are JT3 holdovers they are 2nd, 4th, 6th and 8th (Trey who is effectively a Pat guy but I guess is still part of the cupboard). Maybe the cupboard was bare but the restocking hasn't been so great. So far Josh and Greg have been great additions but without the cupboard how bad would this team be?
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 10, 2019 13:15:26 GMT -5
JT3 left the cupboard bare for Ewing. I mean absolutely freaking empty. This was a rebuild from the bowels and we all knew it. Ewing has been head coaching for 1.5 seasons. Less than TWO years. How many rebuilds take less than 3 years, usually 4? We all asked, begged, pleaded for a modern offense. For faster pace. For more exciting games. For upgraded talent. For a guard or two that could penetrate, utilize pick and roll. For some players who can play above the rim. And hes delivered on every one of those fronts in short order. I've seen this cupboard bare argument all over the place so I am not just calling you out but it has to be addressed. Last year 5 or 6 (depending if Antwan was part of the cupboard) of the 9 were JT3 holdovers. They were 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th in efficiency. This year 4 out of the 10 man rotation are JT3 holdovers they are 2nd, 4th, 6th and 8th (Trey who is effectively a Pat guy but I guess is still part of the cupboard). Maybe the cupboard was bare but the restocking hasn't been so great. So far Josh and Greg have been great additions but without the cupboard how bad would this team be? If starting a team from this group, you take Ewing guys in just about every top spot, aside from Jessie (whose defensive deficiencies are glaring). The cupboard was bare.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Jan 10, 2019 13:17:01 GMT -5
JT3 left the cupboard bare for Ewing. I mean absolutely freaking empty. This was a rebuild from the bowels and we all knew it. Ewing has been head coaching for 1.5 seasons. Less than TWO years. How many rebuilds take less than 3 years, usually 4? We all asked, begged, pleaded for a modern offense. For faster pace. For more exciting games. For upgraded talent. For a guard or two that could penetrate, utilize pick and roll. For some players who can play above the rim. And hes delivered on every one of those fronts in short order. I've seen this cupboard bare argument all over the place so I am not just calling you out but it has to be addressed. Last year 5 or 6 (depending if Antwan was part of the cupboard) of the 9 were JT3 holdovers. They were 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th in efficiency. This year 4 out of the 10 man rotation are JT3 holdovers they are 2nd, 4th, 6th and 8th (Trey who is effectively a Pat guy but I guess is still part of the cupboard). Maybe the cupboard was bare but the restocking hasn't been so great. So far Josh and Greg have been great additions but without the cupboard how bad would this team be? After govan....the 4 best players on the roster are: I would say - Leblanc, akinjo, Greg, Mac. All 4 are Ewing guys. What am I missing? The cupboard was bare.
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95hoya
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Post by 95hoya on Jan 10, 2019 13:18:57 GMT -5
I think the coaching has been okay. Not great, not terrible. Some inexcusable situational mistakes, but when I look at coaching I look at culture and style of play. I am satisfied with both so far.
I have much greater concerns with recruiting.
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justsaying
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Post by justsaying on Jan 10, 2019 13:19:20 GMT -5
Ewing is learning the ropes of being a head coach, calling the shots, of being a coach in college, recruiting, etc. There is a definitely a steep learning curve that most observers do appreciate. I'm encouraged by his effort and desire to be great at what he does. I too thought it was a risky hire, but realized it would take a little time. When Ewing was hired, we were told that while he did not have head coach experience in college, that Ewing was an NBA assistant for 15 years, and thus, had experience that would serve him well. Clearly, the reason for the coaching change was the two sub .500 seasons and NCAA failures. Fine. But, is the answer to that to hire a guy who has to learn on the job, with no experience in two of the major roles of the job (being the head coach and recruiting)? We are supposed to be a high-major program contending at the top of our conference, so we hire someone who needs to learn as he goes? While we hire a guy who needs learn on the job, other programs hired guys the same year who have performed much better. I am sorry, and I realize that Ewing is not to blame for this, but I am sick of this excuse. Ewing needs to be judged as any coach would be. Regardless, Ewing is our coach and the success of our program is going to rise and fall with his fortunes, so I truly hope he figures this out. I do appreciate the hard work and effort he puts into the job, recruiting, etc., but so far on-court product raises a lot of questions. To me, two of the main problems I see are things Ewing should have had exposure to at the NBA level: lineup rotations and in-game adjustments (for what it's worth, I don't think JT3 was great at in-game adjustments either). These are two areas where I think Ewing would have a lot of exposure, and yet, it seems to be a major weakness thus far. I truly hope he can figure this out, otherwise it's going to be a long few years of Georgetown basketball. Just a thought. Is it interesting about the many facets of the game when freshmen show up and play like freshman but our sports board in-sighters who know the game more that most can just detail it out so precisely. It is amazing when the team comes up short and got pushed around physically (freshmen got to learn) that many choose to point to a reference of hire in their eyes to inject something about the game but to always harken back to a hire; this kind of let you know what those true feeling are. So anytime we come up short we must go back to the hire (that is past it is old) which kind of indicates where some are coming from and what awaits each game when the team does not win. Each contest is a win for someone and a loss for someone. For many it was about the hire and it will always be about the hire for they feel they always know better and will always know better. They will regress and hold those comments when a win occur but that thought is awaiting to emerge at the next loss. No coach is perfect if there is one give me his name. Jay Wright (multi Champions on all levels) team has struggled somewhat this year with even more veteran experienced players (that is more than our group). Ed Cooley (USA Coach) struggling. That is the game and if not then one must not have a lot of experience at the game (excluding videos). Many of these comments just show the level of knowledge of the game. This is the Big East Conference, no game in this conference is a gimme. If one thinks otherwise then again knowledge of the game would be nice. This team had shown progress and is headed in the right direction. In the sports world that says a lot. When it comes to recruits (given that the NCAA is failing to punish wrong doing) if we think the money situation and players are still not being influenced at this very moment then again you do not know much about the game.
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Post by bornhoya on Jan 10, 2019 13:59:32 GMT -5
One of the key thngs Xavier's coach and players cited (over and above the 2-3 zone) was playing their 2 big guys together; and Ewing said they weren't ready for that look (apparently X had not done it yet this year, having not watched any of their games I have no idea if it is true). On the surface it sounds like it didn't occur as something to prepare for pregame, which could be true, but that answer could also reflect that with Mourning injured there isn't a second option. I love LeBlanc, but he's gonna have a hard time keeping the X rec league center away from the rim and we only saw Carter for 2 minutes but it's clear he could not either. Not saying Mourning is an elite defender but he is the only current other option. Ewing could have went to doubling the post and the alignment in our 2-3 is terrible (it was terrible under JT3 too) our guards are way to high and the wings have to cover the free throw line leaving the corners wide open
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 10, 2019 13:59:48 GMT -5
I think the coaching has been okay. Not great, not terrible. Some inexcusable situational mistakes, but when I look at coaching I look at culture and style of play. I am satisfied with both so far. I have much greater concerns with recruiting. Some bad possessions at the end of the game last night did not help the Hoyas. Even if they were executed better they still might not have won, but the possessions in the last minute last night seemed disorganized/unprepared. Working on situational basketball and how the players need to react, is something the team needs to improve. To be fair, there were some pretty bad situational basketball plays in other games last night by other team/coaches. Not sure how Creighton lost that game last night, that is going to hurt for a while, and Butler fought hard all night but they wasted way too much time getting a shot off on one of the last possesions and did not give themselves a chance to win the game. I have to believe the staff, and the other teams staff's, are giving the players good advise/strategy and then it is up to the player to understand and execute with good decision making. In the end these are young kids playing in high stress situations and they do not always make the "correct" decisions.
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95hoya
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Post by 95hoya on Jan 10, 2019 14:16:11 GMT -5
Coaching is about communicating with players. Every coach delivers similar messages. All of these coaches know the game, they have been around it longer than we have. It's not about outsmarting each other.
When players don't execute it falls on the coaches. Being able to communicate with players so that they understand the message you are delivering and teaching is what elite coaches do at the highest level.
Let's not be obtuse and think say coach told them to do this and the players didn't, so the coach is absolved. FWIW one of the knocks on the Ewing hire was his ability to communicate with players. I am not saying that's an issue, I just found it interesting since that's at the top of the list in terms of coaching attributes.
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Jan 10, 2019 15:09:45 GMT -5
There is a heck of a learning curve and the recruiting process is never ending. I wish we could recruit the high quality student-athletes that we desire. A lot has changed with college and pro athletes. The lure of pro ball, not just an NBA career, makes it tremendously difficult to attract the players we need, but our coach is working tirelessly to bring them in. It would be great if more qualified alumnus, such as the guys with NBA Africa (who have contributed) could assist with his effort. Allen Iverson for example! The recruiting excuse will always be there when the team isn't winning big, it's an easy out... To me player development is the key to success for programs like Gtown, Gtown needs to do much better in this area... I don't disagree with player development statement
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2019 16:11:26 GMT -5
Ewing clearly needs to create more silk purses.
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Post by bereal on Jan 10, 2019 16:16:48 GMT -5
I think you can argue the cupboard wasn't as bad as it appears today. IMHO, I think Ewing ran off some of the kids or didn't try to keep them. If you consider Derrickson wouldn't have been in such a hurry to leave. Actually, Govan wanted to leave and tested the NBA or any professional opportunity. Sodom and Walker were dismissed. Tremont Waters decided not to come onboard and he's a point guard that a lot of elite kids want to play with, he could have attracted additional talent for the cupboard.
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