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Post by iheartdurenbros on Jan 7, 2018 10:17:33 GMT -5
Read through a few of these pages. In general I agree with those who pointed out that the match up was especially bad for Hoyas. Defensively they looked disconnected, but I actually thought Creighton made many difficult shots. It was puzzling why we didn’t press more to avoid letting them get into position. But for me the primary issue was the absence of real shooters on Hoyad. And of course the bad day for some normally reliable shooters. But some days shooters are going to shoot and you just have to shoot back.
Regarding coaching it is difficult to say why Ewing seemed to throw in the towel early but as fans we tend to judge moves based on what we see in the game. We look at action on the ball so even that view is myopic, but we also don’t consider or understand what he is trying to teach. How do you get a group of players to change bad habits? Adjust to a new style of basketball? So whatever he did it may have made for an ugly game (and I don’t believe he cost us a win) but I actually appreciated seeing what Walker and others could do in non-conventional line ups.
There are growing pains with a new style of play. Everyone is a freshman because everyone is adjusting. Not sure why this is just me, but I thought that Ewing made adjustment to have Jesse and Marcus take good shots outside post during DePaul. It worked to open the offense up that game so he has made adjustment we want. Hard to say that didn’t work yesterday because we were so clearly outmatched on every level.
It is indisputable that the style of play is changing the Hoyas. One huge positive for me is the differential in free throw attempts made by Hoyas. In most of our games we are taking more free throws than the other team. That means we are not only committing fewer fouls than opponents but we are drawing them on shots and in turn we generally make free throws. We did not have that advantage yesterday since Creighton played well while drawing only one more foul than we did.
Finally I am not the only regular attendee at Cap One that just feels better watching games. Last year it felt like we were plodding in place and everyone feared that nothing would happen to addresss the problem. It is really important to remember that the University’s slow response in changing coaches placed us at a real disadvantage in recruiting. I think Ewing did well in keeping players but also by identifying Blair and Pickett as good additions to roster. I really like Walker as well. All three will be solid after they have a chance to develop skills and judgment with the ball. I take that as an extremely positive sign. When Ewing and staff have a chance to recruit without the disadvantage of a late start I am confident they will address roster holes immediately after season is over.
They have given me no reason to not trust the process.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 7, 2018 10:50:00 GMT -5
We are undermanned, especially in the backcourt. The coach can only do so much to keep us in games against good opponents. Recruiting will turn the tide, but it will take several classes to get there. As per yesterday, Blair took as many shots as Govan and Derrickson combined. Probably not a winning recipe. That said, teams will deny our two bigs to see if we have any answers.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,904
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 7, 2018 10:50:28 GMT -5
I felt that last season Jessie fell a little too much in love with the 3 point shot, to the detriment of his inside game. This season his game inside ten feet is much stronger. I don't mind the occasional 3, but it should not be a focus of our offense. Did you mean to post Derrickson? Govan only took 35 threes last season..
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 7, 2018 11:28:34 GMT -5
Read through a few of these pages. In general I agree with those who pointed out that the match up was especially bad for Hoyas. Defensively they looked disconnected, but I actually thought Creighton made many difficult shots. It was puzzling why we didn’t press more to avoid letting them get into position. But for me the primary issue was the absence of real shooters on Hoyad. And of course the bad day for some normally reliable shooters. But some days shooters are going to shoot and you just have to shoot back. Regarding coaching it is difficult to say why Ewing seemed to throw in the towel early but as fans we tend to judge moves based on what we see in the game. We look at action on the ball so even that view is myopic, but we also don’t consider or understand what he is trying to teach. How do you get a group of players to change bad habits? Adjust to a new style of basketball? So whatever he did it may have made for an ugly game (and I don’t believe he cost us a win) but I actually appreciated seeing what Walker and others could do in non-conventional line ups. There are growing pains with a new style of play. Everyone is a freshman because everyone is adjusting. Not sure why this is just me, but I thought that Ewing made adjustment to have Jesse and Marcus take good shots outside post during DePaul. It worked to open the offense up that game so he has made adjustment we want. Hard to say that didn’t work yesterday because we were so clearly outmatched on every level. It is indisputable that the style of play is changing the Hoyas. One huge positive for me is the differential in free throw attempts made by Hoyas. In most of our games we are taking more free throws than the other team. That means we are not only committing fewer fouls than opponents but we are drawing them on shots which we generally make. We did not have that advantage yesterday since Creighton played well while drawing only one more foul than we did. Finally I am not the only regular attendee at Cap One that just feels better watching games. Last year it felt like we were plodding in place and everyone feared that nothing would happen to addresss the problem. It is really important to remember that the University’s slow response in changing coaches placed us at a real disadvantage in recruiting. I think Ewing did well in keeping players but also by identifying Blair and Pickett as good additions to roster. I really like Walker as well. All three will be solid after they have a chance to develop skills and judgment with the ball. I take that as an extremely positive sign. When Ewing and staff have a chance to recruit without the disadvantage of a late start I am confident they will address roster holes immediately after season is over. They have given me no reason to not trust the process. I think the waving the white flag is the reality of being down by 20 with 5 minutes to go. It was good to get some PT to freshman like Antwan Walker who can still help us this year. It's a common tactic in the NBA, not only for PT but to change things up and try to get a spark. Alot of the Jordan Bulls NBA Finals victories came down to Phil Jackson waving the white flag, sitting Jordan & Pippen and inserting the backups, only to have the backups tie the game back up at which point Jordan, Pippen, Rodman/Ho Grant came back in to seal the title. I think another thing is we will see these blowouts more than in the III era because of the fast uptempo NBA style. Under the Princeton, even if we were down we gobbled up clock on offense, so if we lost we would only lose by 10-13 points. It was a slow down style. But with the NBA uptempo style, there are more shots and opportunities, so on an off night the scoring differential/margin can end up being huge.
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bigskyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,094
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Post by bigskyhoya on Jan 7, 2018 11:40:45 GMT -5
Read through a few of these pages. In general I agree with those who pointed out that the match up was especially bad for Hoyas. Defensively they looked disconnected, but I actually thought Creighton made many difficult shots. It was puzzling why we didn’t press more to avoid letting them get into position. But for me the primary issue was the absence of real shooters on Hoyad. And of course the bad day for some normally reliable shooters. But some days shooters are going to shoot and you just have to shoot back. Regarding coaching it is difficult to say why Ewing seemed to throw in the towel early but as fans we tend to judge moves based on what we see in the game. We look at action on the ball so even that view is myopic, but we also don’t consider or understand what he is trying to teach. How do you get a group of players to change bad habits? Adjust to a new style of basketball? So whatever he did it may have made for an ugly game (and I don’t believe he cost us a win) but I actually appreciated seeing what Walker and others could do in non-conventional line ups. There are growing pains with a new style of play. Everyone is a freshman because everyone is adjusting. Not sure why this is just me, but I thought that Ewing made adjustment to have Jesse and Marcus take good shots outside post during DePaul. It worked to open the offense up that game so he has made adjustment we want. Hard to say that didn’t work yesterday because we were so clearly outmatched on every level. It is indisputable that the style of play is changing the Hoyas. One huge positive for me is the differential in free throw attempts made by Hoyas. In most of our games we are taking more free throws than the other team. That means we are not only committing fewer fouls than opponents but we are drawing them on shots which we generally make. We did not have that advantage yesterday since Creighton played well while drawing only one more foul than we did. Finally I am not the only regular attendee at Cap One that just feels better watching games. Last year it felt like we were plodding in place and everyone feared that nothing would happen to addresss the problem. It is really important to remember that the University’s slow response in changing coaches placed us at a real disadvantage in recruiting. I think Ewing did well in keeping players but also by identifying Blair and Pickett as good additions to roster. I really like Walker as well. All three will be solid after they have a chance to develop skills and judgment with the ball. I take that as an extremely positive sign. When Ewing and staff have a chance to recruit without the disadvantage of a late start I am confident they will address roster holes immediately after season is over. They have given me no reason to not trust the process. I think the waving the white flag is the reality of being down by 20 with 5 minutes to go. It was good to get some PT to freshman like Antwan Walker who can still help us this year. It's a common tactic in the NBA, not only for PT but to change things up and try to get a spark. Alot of the Jordan Bulls NBA Finals victories came down to Phil Jackson waving the white flag, sitting Jordan & Pippen and inserting the backups, only to have the backups tie the game back up at which point Jordan, Pippen, Rodman/Ho Grant came back in to seal the title. I think another thing is we will see these blowouts more than in the III era because of the fast uptempo NBA style. Under the Princeton, even if we were down we gobbled up clock on offense, so if we lost we would only lose by 10-13 points. It was a slow down style. But with the NBA uptempo style, there are more shots and opportunities, so on an off night the scoring differential/margin can end up being huge. Agree. I just made the same point in another thread.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 7, 2018 11:45:06 GMT -5
i know you don't mean it, Ewing's your guy. But it can be construed that you don't approve of him (even though that's not what you are intending) because of the Derrickson and Sodom incidents which plays right into the anti-Thompson/Ewing faction. Like I said you are just being passionate and calling it as you see it but be aware of the faction that want the Thompsons/Ewings' gone because it gives them fuel for the fire. I totally approve of Ewing. Do i think he should've played Sodom more? Yes. Oh, I love the Thompsons from the top and bottom of my heart. When i lost my son to cancer Gtown was there for me. I will never forget the kind heart of JT3. Man im in tears right now. It really hurt me to see coach go through all of what he did. He went out and solved the problem of getting what he needed. A true point guard. Another coach on the court but people couldnt wait another season. Niw they see and know that not having a leader out there on the court hurts us so bad. I have love and tespect for everyone here no matter what but it seems they dont have for me but thats okay. I've been dealing with this all of my life it only makes me stronger. Its all all about love love love. JT3 was a very good man and a man of honor.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 7, 2018 12:01:06 GMT -5
You can almost chalk yesterday's loss to three point shooting differential. They couldn't miss and we couldn't hit. We will have plenty of deep looks going forward, as folks sag on our bigs.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 7, 2018 12:08:28 GMT -5
Yes he is. Mom did a good raising him and his sister and Ronnie. A very good coach as well. Took him a while to see what we really needed, but he went and got the player for the position we needed, but as I stated earlier our fans didn't know and couldn't wait any longer.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 7, 2018 13:48:56 GMT -5
I felt that last season Jessie fell a little too much in love with the 3 point shot, to the detriment of his inside game. This season his game inside ten feet is much stronger. I don't mind the occasional 3, but it should not be a focus of our offense. Did you mean to post Derrickson? Govan only took 35 threes last season.. My recollection was that Jessie started moving outside more as the Big East season went on, maybe not all the way to the line, but too many jumpers. Marcus definitely settled for too many 3's, but that is a different issue. I think it is fair to say Patrick is helping them both improve their inside games.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,212
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Post by hoyarooter on Jan 7, 2018 18:57:13 GMT -5
The amazing thing to me is that Foster, who is clearly Creighton's best player, had a horrible shooting game, and we still got clobbered.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 8, 2018 7:54:10 GMT -5
They are much better than us. Case closed. On to the next one.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,508
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 8, 2018 9:06:33 GMT -5
They are much better than us. Case closed. On to the next one. Creighton is a good team that will cause some problems for other teams also when the tournament starts in March. This was always going to be a tough match up if Creighton could get the game played at their pace and their style, which it sounds like they were able to do. They play fast, spread the floor and shoot, and make, a lot of threes. The Hoyas are just not at a point yet where they can impose their will on other teams and make them play the way the Hoyas need to play at this point to be competitive. Ewing is trying to speed up the pace for his team, but also needs to score alot of point in the paint with his two big guys because of a lack of consistent outside shooting. To play that Creighton style you need multiple quick ball handlers/shooters. That is the way Creighton has built their team and the Hoyas just can't compete with that right now with the personnel they have.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 8, 2018 10:25:32 GMT -5
Still, nothing but silence. Beat St. John's!
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,924
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Post by NCHoya on Jan 8, 2018 10:28:42 GMT -5
No suprise about this game's outcome. The Hoyas are playing more uptempo, which means when they run into a team that is comfortable and better at playing uptempo, a blowout is a real possibility. Not much more to say about this game, Creighton is a better team and bad match-up this season. Learn what we can and move on to the next one.
Agree with professorhoya, Hoya fans are not used to watching these types of games because III's style kept games close to the benefit and detriment of his teams. This new way of playing will allow for more possessions so better teams may be able to build a larger lead, especially as we rebuild.
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,488
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Post by dchoya72 on Jan 8, 2018 11:20:37 GMT -5
Who is he who must not be named? Regarding Patrick and John Thompson, Jr. Just curious, but dont expect an answer. Very mysterious.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 8, 2018 12:02:27 GMT -5
I'm not quite as down as some people, but there were some fundamental issues here that worry me short-term and long term. - I'm not as worried about the offensive struggles. I think we got a ton of good outside shots and once again failed to hit them. The book on us is to pack the paint -- and really the only way to make them pay is to make perimeter shots. But you have to make the open ones, and we didn't. We don't penetrate, either, but that's a talent thing. It could be a coaching thing as well, but no amount of coaching will make this team be a dribble drive team.
- More troubling on offense was a laziness in movement. Earlier this year we saw more movement. This game, people stopped moving. That kills a lot of chances -- you can see it in Kaleb's production.
- Defensively, there's just nothing there. We were destroyed by basic pick and pops on the perimeter, especially by Hegner, which Derrickson and the guards couldn't do anything with. I'm been worried about our pick and roll defensive choices because we're terrible at it, and Hegner just blitzed us early (and then ball rotation blitzed us late). Forget Ewing's commentary on Derrickson's practice, I think he pulled MD because he couldn't play Govan and MD together when Creighton's 4 was hitting everything from outside.
- And since there's no rim protection at all, pressing higher to stop the threes wasn't a great option. Josh LeBlanc cannot come fast enough. Our defense is pretty terrible -- basically in line with the worst seasons under Thompson and a far cry from our Top 10 defensive teams in those years. We really, really need a defensive center, and I will be bummed if PATRICK FREAKING EWING can't get a defensive beast to come in.
- I am very disappointed that this team quit at 10 minutes. They made a couple of runs but when Creighton would hit a few threes, eventually they absolutely gave up. The defense went to crap, and everyone got very, very sloppy. I don't think it speaks to Ewing losing the team, or massive character flaws, or any long term issue. But I wish they would have played hard until it really was over. You can come back in 10 minutes from almost anything.
- I disagree with the folks who came on saying we have no offensive plan. Our fast break is not good -- partially perhaps because of coaching but mostly because our PGs are lacking in key skills and our freshmen keep running into people. But we run an offense and it makes sense. It's not my favorite offense -- there's too much planting of players off play instead of keeping them moving. It's tough to tell whether that is coaching or players -- these same players stopped moving without the ball with Thompson and we know his offense required that. But some coaches do like the "plant in the corner to occupy a defender while I toss it into the post" kind of offense. I don't like that compared to the offense that occupies guy with good movement but I also know these guys suck at cutting and we don't have a lot of strong bball iqs.
- Either way, I don't think this staff has no plan. This is not an Esherick offense. I think this is a coach trying to play an offense that does require more talent. It doesn't mean he's a great coach held back by his players. It may mean he is stubborn / can't adapt to his talent. But it could also be his talent is pretty terrible.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 11, 2018 8:54:45 GMT -5
Felt good to beat St. John's in the Garden! "It's often been said that you learn more from losing than you do from winning. I think, if you're wise, you learn from both. You learn a lot from a loss. You learn what is it that we're not doing to get to where we want to go. It really gets your attention and it really motivates the work ethic of your team when you're not doing well." - Morgan Wootten
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,438
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 13, 2018 11:04:45 GMT -5
cant remember but WHO SAID WE GOT KILLED BY CREIGHTON A MEDIOCORE BIG EAST TEAM? just wondering. some call it the best offensive team in the country and not bad d either WHO SAID THAT.
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