tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jul 9, 2018 0:05:19 GMT -5
I'm not, necessarily, disagreeing. But the Feds wouldn't have been able to do a thing to UNC either. They used the excuse that they offered it to all students so it's legit. And, as an accredited, educational, institution, that's valid somehow.
As far as the bribery thing, it's going to be toothless as well. And, in your scenario, you're advocating bribery. Living expenses and pocket money aren't able to be standardized. They vary widely from place to place. Paying 5k a month to a St. John's player probably makes sense. Give a player 5k a month in WV and it's 2500 too much. With regard to the FBI, it'll net very little because the corruption is widespread and the penalties wouldn't be worth the cost of imposing them. There may be 20 players a year like you say but the cost increases every year and schools pay it. 20 players in 2 schools is very different than 20 players at 15, revenue generating schools. They may attempt to make changes moving forward (which would be great) but it won't be in service of education. It'll be in recognition of the fallacy that the education part is a component for a lot of players and a lot of schools. Do you think Otto or Greg are finishing their degrees? If he gets a contract, do you think Marcus is finishing? Not to mention, a college degree doesn't mean what it used to 30 years ago. Without a graduate degree, 2 or 3 years in college means nothing and a degree means little more.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jul 9, 2018 1:04:16 GMT -5
I'm not, necessarily, disagreeing. But the Feds wouldn't have been able to do a thing to UNC either. They used the excuse that they offered it to all students so it's legit. And, as an accredited, educational, institution, that's valid somehow. As far as the bribery thing, it's going to be toothless as well. And, in your scenario, you're advocating bribery. Living expenses and pocket money aren't able to be standardized. They vary widely from place to place. Paying 5k a month to a St. John's player probably makes sense. Give a player 5k a month in WV and it's 2500 too much. With regard to the FBI, it'll net very little because the corruption is widespread and the penalties wouldn't be worth the cost of imposing them. There may be 20 players a year like you say but the cost increases every year and schools pay it. 20 players in 2 schools is very different than 20 players at 15, revenue generating schools. They may attempt to make changes moving forward (which would be great) but it won't be in service of education. It'll be in recognition of the fallacy that the education part is a component for a lot of players and a lot of schools. Do you think Otto or Greg are finishing their degrees? If he gets a contract, do you think Marcus is finishing? Not to mention, a college degree doesn't mean what it used to 30 years ago. Without a graduate degree, 2 or 3 years in college means nothing and a degree means little more. The Feds or NCAA couldn't do anything to UNC because what UNC did isn't somehow technically illegal even though it is fraudulent. That's why I believe UNC will have to pay BIG $$$ to settle the class action civil lawsuit. In no way am I advocating bribery of players. I just don't think it's as wide spread in terms of number of players involved. The number of universities involved is more than the players in any given class. Like I said previously their are probably only 20 players in any given class that schools will risk violations and paying but probably 50-75 schools that are willing and able to get involved in the bribery schemes. If the NBA/NCAA would allow players to go straight from high school to the Association or G League but if you go to college you gotta stay 2 or more years, at least 10/20 would go directly outta high school. If the NBA/NCAA changes the rule that you go directly outta high school or 3 years in college, it would really minimize if not completely erase the bribery scandal because shoe companies will have no incentive to get involved. No college program is competing with NBA when it comes to paying $$$, and college coaches won't be able to predict 3 years out who to bribe. When I say living expense/pocket money, I mean extra money outside of rent and associated expenses. Pocket money can absolutely be standardized across the board just as scholarships are. A flat $6000 added to all scholarships to be paid out in biweekly increments is easy to do. The argument that the value of money is different in various locations and could be an advantage doesn't wash because scholarships have different values and recruits still pick a Florida State over Georgetown even though Georgetown scholarship value is probably 3-4 times as much as Florida State. Recruits will go where they want to go. So if the stipend is same across the board, recruits will decide between UCLA and West Virginia the same way they do now. I don't think the college game will ever truly be 100% clean. Those that want to cheat will try to figure a way to get by the rules. It's the nature of society but it can be minimized. The way the rules are right now, high level recruits just have to get away with cheating for 9 months.
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Jul 9, 2018 7:12:57 GMT -5
I’ve said it a million times and I don’t understand why the dummies in the NBA don’t adopt the same model as college hockey. Let kids get drafted and go to school. The team restains their rights but the players don’t get any money. When both the player and team are ready then a contract can be signed. Kids can participate in NHL camps but have to pay their own way. Player develops, gets an education and NCAA squads can keep some of the talent in college.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jul 9, 2018 16:19:17 GMT -5
I’ve said it a million times and I don’t understand why the dummies in the NBA don’t adopt the same model as college hockey. Let kids get drafted and go to school. The team restains their rights but the players don’t get any money. When both the player and team are ready then a contract can be signed. Kids can participate in NHL camps but have to pay their own way. Player develops, gets an education and NCAA squads can keep some of the talent in college. Not sure why the Players Union would sign on to a system like this, seems very one-sided in the owners favor...
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jul 10, 2018 14:50:04 GMT -5
Looks like Kansas Final 4 run last season will be vacated if true that De Sousa guardian took money. Between De Sousa and Billy Preston, Kansas is a dirty program!
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jul 10, 2018 17:28:38 GMT -5
Any players/recruits there for the picking?
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Jul 10, 2018 20:27:40 GMT -5
Looks like Kansas Final 4 run last season will be vacated if true that De Sousa guardian took money. Between De Sousa and Billy Preston, Kansas is a dirty program! Refusal to comply with a subpoena is a great look for a public university.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jul 10, 2018 20:46:28 GMT -5
Refusal to comply with a subpoena is a great look for a public university. I thought the same thing - but after reading the article, the University has not refused to comply with the subpeonas - they just refused to turn over copies of the subpoenas to Yahoo.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 10, 2018 22:25:34 GMT -5
Refusal to comply with a subpoena is a great look for a public university. Didn't Arizona pull a similar stunt?
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 10, 2018 22:44:38 GMT -5
I’ve said it a million times and I don’t understand why the dummies in the NBA don’t adopt the same model as college hockey. Let kids get drafted and go to school. The team restains their rights but the players don’t get any money. When both the player and team are ready then a contract can be signed. Kids can participate in NHL camps but have to pay their own way. Player develops, gets an education and NCAA squads can keep some of the talent in college. rief. You co Folks still blaming the NBA for these troubles? College basketball has become a cesspool and the biggest programs are the problem. So many of these kids won't even go to class during their second semesters and the coaches and universities let them keep suiting up to play. The rot is at the amateur levels, not the professional one. No one asks the NFL to make these changes but people wouldn't hesitate to ask the NBA to open up to the idea of preteens joining the professional ranks. And the difference in the expectations department between basketball players and hockey players is major. Basketball is a huge money-generating sport at all levels in America, hockey not so much. You draft a college basketball player and that kid is more than likely want to join the NBA that instance, not take any injury risks by going back to school. That would also be a huge risk for an NBA team to draft a guy they would have to wait on for at least another year. If that player doesn't show any improvement or regresses that following year in college, the NBA scouts/gurus will be cursing the fact that they drafted the guy before his limitations were exposed or before it was revealed that he had plateaued. As for the college coaches they may end up with a player who now feels he has more obligations to his future NBA team and its management than he does to the college program he is still playing for. In fact the player may possibly even lose his drive to get better or dominate on the court because he has nothing further to prove in terms of getting drafted or his draft position. Yeah, this could go wrong in a bunch of ways. Just because it worked like that for Larry Bird doesn't mean it will work for most of these players now.
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Jul 11, 2018 6:47:22 GMT -5
Fair points. The model works, but the problem is the basketball athlete vs the hockey athlete. The high end ball player has a sense of entitlement from an early age; he’s going to get his and nobody is going to tell him, his extended family, his hanger ons and his AAU coaches that this kids best interests isn’t to go pro. If these kids weren’t so spoiled they’d see it as a fall back position, one where they could develop over the next year if they chose not to sign right away. And the NBA wouldn’t want them to learn how to integrate into a team situation, or take responsibility for actions like going to class.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jul 11, 2018 7:18:55 GMT -5
Fair points. The model works, but the problem is the basketball athlete vs the hockey athlete. The high end ball player has a sense of entitlement from an early age; he’s going to get his and nobody is going to tell him, his extended family, his hanger ons and his AAU coaches that this kids best interests isn’t to go pro. If these kids weren’t so spoiled they’d see it as a fall back position, one where they could develop over the next year if they chose not to sign right away. And the NBA wouldn’t want them to learn how to integrate into a team situation, or take responsibility for actions like going to class. But it's not up to HS kids, it's on the owners & pro players.. HS kids will have to live with whatever decisions are negotiated on the pro level..
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jul 11, 2018 7:28:59 GMT -5
Totally agree with MCI that college basketball has become a cesspool and that the major programs are a big part of the problem. Before we change the rules--a much needed outcome--it would be nice to start enforcing the rules that exist on an equal basis.
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Jul 11, 2018 11:03:03 GMT -5
Fair points. The model works, but the problem is the basketball athlete vs the hockey athlete. The high end ball player has a sense of entitlement from an early age; he’s going to get his and nobody is going to tell him, his extended family, his hanger ons and his AAU coaches that this kids best interests isn’t to go pro. If these kids weren’t so spoiled they’d see it as a fall back position, one where they could develop over the next year if they chose not to sign right away. And the NBA wouldn’t want them to learn how to integrate into a team situation, or take responsibility for actions like going to class. But it's not up to HS kids, it's on the owners & pro players.. HS kids will have to live with whatever decisions are negotiated on the pro level.. The NBA is a workplace that is governed by a CBA. I have no problems with the two parties agreeing on the conditions for their business. But this isn’t penalizing kids; if you want to declare for the draft and go, by all means, play in the NBA. But for those that might want to have the option of either staying pro or going to school and developing, then the college hockey model works well.
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IDenj
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Post by IDenj on Jul 11, 2018 11:04:29 GMT -5
Totally agree with MCI that college basketball has become a cesspool and that the major programs are a big part of the problem. Before we change the rules--a much needed outcome--it would be nice to start enforcing the rules that exist on an equal basis. Agree with that too. Fat chance it happens.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Jul 11, 2018 18:37:10 GMT -5
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jul 25, 2018 20:34:37 GMT -5
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Aug 2, 2018 12:47:02 GMT -5
Hmm...this is different. Not surprising but different.
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Post by centercourt400s on Aug 2, 2018 18:04:17 GMT -5
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Aug 2, 2018 18:16:44 GMT -5
Seems cheap for a 5 star. $1 million for a 5 star lineup. Go for it- NCAA has no backbone.
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