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Post by jld54 on May 8, 2018 13:13:06 GMT -5
The one and done rule isn't the NCAA's fault. Its the NBA's. Some of her criticism is valid and poignant, some of it is directed at the wrong people. Looks like another person who wants to have their cake and eat it too. She asserts that the school should “have someone in the player’s ear” regarding getting an education. Is that not her responsibility as a parent? And I would like to know what stops her soon to be multimillionaire son from getting his degree over the next several summers, either in person or online. What stopped her son from staying in school for 2 to 3 years, to limit the barrier to getting the degree after he goes to the league and makes millions?. A total hypocrite.
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Post by centercourt400s on May 8, 2018 13:48:29 GMT -5
There are few things in this world that can compare to the evil of human slavery. NCAA athletic scholarships are not one of them.
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justsaying
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Post by justsaying on May 8, 2018 13:48:35 GMT -5
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justsaying
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Post by justsaying on May 8, 2018 13:50:08 GMT -5
The one and done rule isn't the NCAA's fault. Its the NBA's. Some of her criticism is valid and poignant, some of it is directed at the wrong people. Looks like another person who wants to have their cake and eat it too. She asserts that the school should “have someone in the player’s ear” regarding getting an education. Is that not her responsibility as a parent? And I would like to know what stops her soon to be multimillionaire son from getting his degree over the next several summers, either in person or online. What stopped her son from staying in school for 2 to 3 years, to limit the barrier to getting the degree after he goes to the league and makes millions?. A total hypocrite. To make sure I understand, is it being stated that the current system is not hypocrisy.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 8, 2018 14:05:37 GMT -5
The one and done rule isn't the NCAA's fault. Its the NBA's. Some of her criticism is valid and poignant, some of it is directed at the wrong people. Looks like another person who wants to have their cake and eat it too. She asserts that the school should “have someone in the player’s ear” regarding getting an education. Is that not her responsibility as a parent? And I would like to know what stops her soon to be multimillionaire son from getting his degree over the next several summers, either in person or online. What stopped her son from staying in school for 2 to 3 years, to limit the barrier to getting the degree after he goes to the league and makes millions?. A total hypocrite. I'm not a fan of her reference to slavery and much of her take in the article but to be fair she did say the she would be like a jackhammer pounding the need for education into her sons head.. Her thoughts are with other kids who won't have the great influence behind them..
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on May 8, 2018 14:31:15 GMT -5
As a Black man I truly wish that people would stop comparing things to the absolute horrors of 400 years of slavery that are still impacting African Americans to this days. Her son was given access to a free top of the line education as well first class travel, meals, nutrition, medical treatment and coaching over the course of 8 months and had several other options than going to Duke where her son could get paid very very well. African slaves had ZEROOOOOO options, Were not allowed an education as it was illegal, were raped, beaten and lynched at their owners whims...
I am disgraced that other black people like this woman and Kanye are given platforms to spout any idiotic idea that comes across their non educated brains and the news can't wait to publish these idiots thoughts. She knew what her son was signing up for and knew of her other multitude of options. Then she blames others for her son not taking advantage of his academic opportunities??? He could of stayed at Duke and completed his degree and he can also go back and work on his degree during his NBA career. If Duke is pushing him out the door, he could transfer to another school. This has zero to do with education and 100% to do with her having to wait 8 months to cash in on the BIG $$$ her son will soon earn.
No no one of any race should compare ANYTHING to the horrors of slavery or the holocaust....
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 8, 2018 14:51:40 GMT -5
As a Black man I truly wish that people would stop comparing things to the absolute horrors of 400 years of slavery that are still impacting African Americans to this days. Her son was given access to a free top of the line education as well first class travel, meals, nutrition, medical treatment and coaching over the course of 8 months and had several other options than going to Duke where her son could get paid very very good money. African slaves had ZEROOOOOO options, Were not allowed an education as it was illegal, were raped, beaten and lynched at the owners whims... I am disgraced that other black people like this woman and Kanye are given platforms to spout any idiotic idea that comes across their non educated brains and the news can't wait to publish these idiots thoughts. She knew what her son was signing up for and knew of her other multitude of options. Then she blames others for her son not taking advantage of his academic opportunities??? He could of stayed at Duke and completed his degree and he can also go back and work on his degree during his NBA career. If Duke is pushing him out the door, he could transfer to another school. This has zero to do with education and 100% to do with her having to wait 8 months to cash in on the BIG $$$ her son will soon earn. No no one of any race should compare ANYTHING to the horrors of slavery or the holocaust.... This!!
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Post by FrazierFanatic on May 8, 2018 15:00:03 GMT -5
As a Black man I truly wish that people would stop comparing things to the absolute horrors of 400 years of slavery that are still impacting African Americans to this days. Her son was given access to a free top of the line education as well first class travel, meals, nutrition, medical treatment and coaching over the course of 8 months and had several other options than going to Duke where her son could get paid very very well. African slaves had ZEROOOOOO options, Were not allowed an education as it was illegal, were raped, beaten and lynched at their owners whims... I am disgraced that other black people like this woman and Kanye are given platforms to spout any idiotic idea that comes across their non educated brains and the news can't wait to publish these idiots thoughts. She knew what her son was signing up for and knew of her other multitude of options. Then she blames others for her son not taking advantage of his academic opportunities??? He could of stayed at Duke and completed his degree and he can also go back and work on his degree during his NBA career. If Duke is pushing him out the door, he could transfer to another school. This has zero to do with education and 100% to do with her having to wait 8 months to cash in on the BIG $$$ her son will soon earn. No no one of any race should compare ANYTHING to the horrors of slavery or the holocaust.... Bravo! In the end, these discussions always come down to whether the NCAA and the schools should make huge profits off these kids while the players get virtually no money, and at most an academic opportunity that some care nothing about and some are not prepared or really capable of taking advantage of. The NCAA needs to figure out some way, in conjunction with its member schools, to address the economic issue without simply allowing those top level schools with huge fan bases and rich, avid boosters to sway teenagers to their school by purchasing thousands of souvenir jerseys, player autographs, etc. A difficult dilemma, but one that needs to be solved to the satisfaction of all.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 8, 2018 15:32:19 GMT -5
The one and done rule isn't the NCAA's fault. Its the NBA's. Some of her criticism is valid and poignant, some of it is directed at the wrong people. While I think the NCAA has major problems in a lot of ways, I think the NCAA is placed in a difficult position here. The NCAA's role is to regulate college athletics, yet big time football and basketball are big businesses. I don't think the NCAA (or any other ruling body that would replace it, including conferences) is equipped to deal with it, and neither are universities. Part of Wendall Carter's mother's concerns would be addressed by the NBA's doing away with the one-and-done rules, though that's just one factor among many. As I have said before, the problem with paying players officially is, how do you do that? You have 351 Division 1 teams, and even if you restricted payment to a high-major level (sort of like the FCS/FBS split in college football), that's still a lot of teams, and a lot of players. And, ultimately, the value in players is mostly concentrated in maybe 20 players, at best, each year, who are most likely to make it to the NBA. Once you get beyond those guys, the value attributable to any single player is much lower, and in monetary terms, most players would get basically nothing in a true market system, even on high-major teams in strong markets. In college basketball (and football), value is driven by two main factors: (1) the universities and their built-in audiences (i.e., alumni and students), and (2) the handful of players who are top level and draw fan interest on their own (a very small number). I think in discussing this issue, a lot of focus is (rightly) focused on #2, but I think #1 gets ignored in many instances. Is it unfair that universities profit from college basketball while not paying players? Probably in some ways. However, the colleges and universities bring a lot of value that is often completely ignored. For example, when he played for Georgetown, L.J. Peak, Peak had a pretty well-sized fan base that rooted for him. Did as many people care about him when he played for the Maine Red Claws? Almost certainly not - further demonstrating that a lot of the value these players get is from their affiliation with the university, too. I also wonder how much universities actually profit from college sports. No doubt, the SEC and top football schools massively profit from football and sports. And most of the high major basketball programs probably have fairly significant revenue, but there's a difference between revenue and profit. When you also consider that universities often use their revenue sports to pay for non-revenue sports, I am not sure how much profit there actually is to spread around. Of course, there is goodwill and name recognition that cannot easily be valued, but aside from the Texas' of the world who pull in 9 figures of revenue, I am not sure how profitable the whole thing is, anyway. And, my guess is that there are probably several high-major programs that break even or lose money, and that's probably even more true when you get to mid-majors and the SWAC/MEAC's of the world. Obviously, players bring value too, and some reforms are needed, it's just a complex situation with no easy solutions for anybody involved.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on May 8, 2018 15:55:51 GMT -5
As a Black man I truly wish that people would stop comparing things to the absolute horrors of 400 years of slavery that are still impacting African Americans to this days. Her son was given access to a free top of the line education as well first class travel, meals, nutrition, medical treatment and coaching over the course of 8 months and had several other options than going to Duke where her son could get paid very very well. African slaves had ZEROOOOOO options, Were not allowed an education as it was illegal, were raped, beaten and lynched at their owners whims... I am disgraced that other black people like this woman and Kanye are given platforms to spout any idiotic idea that comes across their non educated brains and the news can't wait to publish these idiots thoughts. She knew what her son was signing up for and knew of her other multitude of options. Then she blames others for her son not taking advantage of his academic opportunities??? He could of stayed at Duke and completed his degree and he can also go back and work on his degree during his NBA career. If Duke is pushing him out the door, he could transfer to another school. This has zero to do with education and 100% to do with her having to wait 8 months to cash in on the BIG $$$ her son will soon earn. No no one of any race should compare ANYTHING to the horrors of slavery or the holocaust.... Bravo! In the end, these discussions always come down to whether the NCAA and the schools should make huge profits off these kids while the players get virtually no money, and at most an academic opportunity that some care nothing about and some are not prepared or really capable of taking advantage of. The NCAA needs to figure out some way, in conjunction with its member schools, to address the economic issue without simply allowing those top level schools with huge fan bases and rich, avid boosters to sway teenagers to their school by purchasing thousands of souvenir jerseys, player autographs, etc. A difficult dilemma, but one that needs to be solved to the satisfaction of all. Most of the money "made off these kids"(which I also contend is a bit bs as very few people are watching Duke to watch Carter, they are watching Carter because they are watching Carter. Yes you need players to play the game but I think there is a lot of over estimation of how much monetary value individual players are really bringing) goes back to supporting other collegiate athletic programs, both from the NCAA and schools. Sure, some athletic departments do turn profit from their sports programs, but the vast majority of D1 schools aren't raking in millions. And 80% of the billions of dollars the NCAA makes go back to supporting other college sports. How much of this is really a perception problem versus athletes that systematically get taken advantage of. And how many of the athletes that are actually making schools money aren't also profiting through there shoe contracts from the year long free promotion? Instead of people like Jay Bilas ranting against the system with 0 facts, it would be nice if someone actually did some research monetary distribution around D1 basketball.
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justsaying
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Post by justsaying on May 8, 2018 17:27:15 GMT -5
Bravo! In the end, these discussions always come down to whether the NCAA and the schools should make huge profits off these kids while the players get virtually no money, and at most an academic opportunity that some care nothing about and some are not prepared or really capable of taking advantage of. The NCAA needs to figure out some way, in conjunction with its member schools, to address the economic issue without simply allowing those top level schools with huge fan bases and rich, avid boosters to sway teenagers to their school by purchasing thousands of souvenir jerseys, player autographs, etc. A difficult dilemma, but one that needs to be solved to the satisfaction of all. Most of the money "made off these kids"(which I also contend is a bit bs as very few people are watching Duke to watch Carter, they are watching Carter because they are watching Carter. Yes you need players to play the game but I think there is a lot of over estimation of how much monetary value individual players are really bringing) goes back to supporting other collegiate athletic programs, both from the NCAA and schools. Sure, some athletic departments do turn profit from their sports programs, but the vast majority of D1 schools aren't raking in millions. And 80% of the billions of dollars the NCAA makes go back to supporting other college sports. How much of this is really a perception problem versus athletes that systematically get taken advantage of. And how many of the athletes that are actually making schools money aren't also profiting through there shoe contracts from the year long free promotion? Instead of people like Jay Bilas ranting against the system with 0 facts, it would be nice if someone actually did some research monetary distribution around D1 basketball. I can not fully agree with you here for if you take a school in D1 currently not on the level with Duke and if that school for a years in a row boast a line-up that is just about all first round NBA picks and likewise Duke lineups began to fall and no longer can boast such a line-ups, let's even say a lineup with mostly 2*, 3* and maybe a 4*. I would bet the likes of ESPN would began featuring that other D1 school and Duke's air time would began to be minimized. It's more than just the school.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on May 8, 2018 18:10:12 GMT -5
As a Black man I truly wish that people would stop comparing things to the absolute horrors of 400 years of slavery that are still impacting African Americans to this days. Her son was given access to a free top of the line education as well first class travel, meals, nutrition, medical treatment and coaching over the course of 8 months and had several other options than going to Duke where her son could get paid very very well. African slaves had ZEROOOOOO options, Were not allowed an education as it was illegal, were raped, beaten and lynched at their owners whims... I am disgraced that other black people like this woman and Kanye are given platforms to spout any idiotic idea that comes across their non educated brains and the news can't wait to publish these idiots thoughts. She knew what her son was signing up for and knew of her other multitude of options. Then she blames others for her son not taking advantage of his academic opportunities??? He could of stayed at Duke and completed his degree and he can also go back and work on his degree during his NBA career. If Duke is pushing him out the door, he could transfer to another school. This has zero to do with education and 100% to do with her having to wait 8 months to cash in on the BIG $$$ her son will soon earn. No no one of any race should compare ANYTHING to the horrors of slavery or the holocaust.... Powerful post. Appreciate your perspective.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on May 8, 2018 19:36:42 GMT -5
As a Black man I truly wish that people would stop comparing things to the absolute horrors of 400 years of slavery that are still impacting African Americans to this days. Her son was given access to a free top of the line education as well first class travel, meals, nutrition, medical treatment and coaching over the course of 8 months and had several other options than going to Duke where her son could get paid very very well. African slaves had ZEROOOOOO options, Were not allowed an education as it was illegal, were raped, beaten and lynched at their owners whims... I am disgraced that other black people like this woman and Kanye are given platforms to spout any idiotic idea that comes across their non educated brains and the news can't wait to publish these idiots thoughts. She knew what her son was signing up for and knew of her other multitude of options. Then she blames others for her son not taking advantage of his academic opportunities??? He could of stayed at Duke and completed his degree and he can also go back and work on his degree during his NBA career. If Duke is pushing him out the door, he could transfer to another school. This has zero to do with education and 100% to do with her having to wait 8 months to cash in on the BIG $$$ her son will soon earn. No no one of any race should compare ANYTHING to the horrors of slavery or the holocaust.... Couldn't agree with this more. Extremely well put.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on May 9, 2018 15:39:42 GMT -5
A slightly different take on this issue---Sometimes the delivery of the message can be so extreme or outrageous that it is easy to dismiss the message altogether. No, the athletes in college basketball are not slaves. Nor should they be paid as professional athletes. But that does not mean that all is fair in how they are treated. The universities do have an obligation to see that these kids are given some education while they are at the school. This means much more than allowing a sports powerhouse, like UNC, to create bogus courses to enable athletes to maintain their eligibility. Unfortunately we know that while UNC may have been an outrageous abuse, it is not a unique situation.
It is not reasonable to say that these 18 year old kids are adults and make their own decisions with their families to attend a school or class, because they are inexperienced,often poor and responding to an onslaught of hype and promises from numerous coaching staffs willing to sell their soul to get a kid on campus. The "contract" that these kids sign with the school they attend is not balanced in many aspects. It can be revoked annually by the school if it thinks it can do better. The coach can leave--or be fired as we continue to adhere to the rhetoric that the athlete chose the school and not the coaching staff. Of course, the basketball/football athlete can leave too, but not without significant restrictions on his/her ability to play a sport elsewhere--restrictions that do not apply to other athletes in other sports or to the student population at large, including other students on full academic scholarships.
My father was a black track athlete who attended a college that actively encouraged his education and my mother a white woman who played college basketball when few schools offered the sport and later became a teacher. Neither they, nor I, would condone the characterization of athletes as slaves. But there is an underlying problem with the current system and while a handful of college athletes may ultimately make millions and should not be complaining about some of the limitations, the restrictions on the vast majority playing basketball and football, are no longer reasonable. Colleges and universities need to examine how to eliminate these inequities even if it inconveniences or disturbs university presidents, boosters and coaches who hate to see a easing on the restrictions involving transfers.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 10, 2018 9:35:13 GMT -5
calhoya, I agree with much of what you say. My problem is that I’ve never see anybody propose an alternative to the current transfer rules that would actually make the situation better. And basketball isn’t really comparable to most other college sports that allow instantaneous eligibility upon transfer because college basketball (and football) is a huge business whereas those non revenue sports are not.
If players transfer at the end of a season, the biggest issue is that they need to sit out a year - but they aren’t deprived of playing 4 years of college basketball (mid-year transfers do get screwed out of a year of eligibility basically, which is really unfair but an issue to discuss another time). So while it’s not ideal, for sure, players still get most of what they want.
Allowing instantaneous eligibility across the board would be a disaster because there would be no roster stability at all, and player transfers would wreak havoc to rosters - not to mention the blue bloods and other top teams would use mid majors and struggling high majors as constant recruiting grounds. For example, what if last year Derrickson and Govan could have immediately transferred to NCAA bound teams? Would they have stuck it out with Ewing or gone elswhere? I have no idea, but I think a lot of good players on weak/middling teams would flee for greener pastures.
Again, I’m not necessarily disagreeing with what you have said, I just don’t know what the fair solution would be for all involved.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on May 10, 2018 14:35:21 GMT -5
No disagreement with what you are saying at all. The solution is not obvious, but still one worth seeking. The solution may wreak havoc on rosters or drive coaches and fans insane---I agree and as a college basketball fan I would be one of the first to complain. But we have to ask ourselves where the priorities should be set. The overwhelming number of kids are not going to play in the NBA or any other professional league. Coaches can quit at any time or be fired--thereby wreaking havoc on the team and unsettling the roster. Look what happened at Marquette, Pittsburgh, Butler, Xavier, Oklahoma State, and on and on as each year a rising star coach chooses to leave for greener pastures or a failing coach is shown the door by the Administration. We as fans hate it but we accept it as a reality of the system. Yet, the coach leaves behind the kids he promised to develop and protect. College athletes often follow a departing coach out the door, proving their loyalty was to the staff, not the institution. Yet, unlike the coach who is back at his job the next season at another location, the athlete is punished for the broken promises of the coach or the school. Even worse, when the coach/school finds a better alternative than a particular kid, they can and will force the player out. Sometimes it is reported as the player's decision, other times a mutual decision, but in every instance the kid is essentially forced to transfer.
I understand the frustration of this Duke parent who rails against the system, even though her particular choice of words and her characterization of the system as slavery are ridiculous. I just worry when I read some media reactions to such extreme exaggeration that the cause of the underlying frustration is too easily dismissed.
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Post by HometownHoya on May 10, 2018 15:42:52 GMT -5
I saw an interesting idea the other day where a student-athlete's options are to either take a scholarship or be able to make money off their likeness. Would help put a true value on the scholarship and stipend that most athletes get currently.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on May 10, 2018 16:33:56 GMT -5
Just spitballing here...some proposals (not necessarily fully hatched or fully baked) for NCAA reforms:
1. The NCAA should permit student/athletes to transfer without loss of immediate eligibility if the coach who recruited them (a) is fired by the university, or (b) leaves the university voluntarily for another coaching job before the student/athlete's eligibility has expired.
2. The NCAA should allow student/athletes to be drafted, but retain eligibility, from age 18 on (similar to the NHL model) by an NBA team or an NBA-G League team, which team shall retain the rights to the student/athlete for the lesser of (a) the expiration of that player/athlete's eligibility, or (b) a period of four years. The student/athlete shall lose eligibility upon the signing of a contract, but shall be permitted to hire an agent while retaining eligibility.
3. Student/athletes should have their eligibility expire upon the receipt of an undergraduate degree from the university, thereby eliminating graduate student/athlete eligibility.
4. The NCAA should allow student/athletes to be compensated and retain eligibility in the following manners: (a) compensation for use of likeness by the university, through a standard licensing fee; (b) an "appearance fee" similar to (but not at the same rate as) the SAG compensation rates for all televised games, to be paid out of the fees received by the university from the conference; and (c) a "winner's share" based upon team success in post-season conference tournaments and post-season championship tournaments (similar to MLB post-season shares).
These aren't fully fleshed out, but I'd be curious as to what other posters think. We know the present system doesn't protect the student/athlete.
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Post by 4aks on May 10, 2018 16:34:32 GMT -5
interesting angle with Sketchers suing Adidas over unfair playing field, breaking rules of amateur sports to gain market share advantage, other marketing advantages
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 11, 2018 21:33:57 GMT -5
I saw an interesting idea the other day where a student-athlete's options are to either take a scholarship or be able to make money off their likeness. Would help put a true value on the scholarship and stipend that most athletes get currently. Given astronomical tuition rates, and the fact that most players aren't going to earn much off their likeness, all but the very top guys would basically be forced to take the tuition. Of course, that also raises the question of whether such players would - in the absence of scholarship - be permitted to receive financial aid, etc. I truly think that commentators often miss the fact that while college basketball is a revenue sport, and plenty of money is made off it, that it's largely because of the collective and the university's draw. The actual value of any particular player - in money terms - is not high, except for the select few who are likely first round draft material (and maybe not even all of them). It's even more lopsided in football given how huge the teams are. In the larger scheme of things, the big money-maker for college basketball is the NCAA tournament, followed by the conference tournaments, and then the regular season. If you look at the ratings and draw of even the top basketball teams, it really isn't that high compared to a lot of other sports. That's why each individual player isn't drawing that much. To some extent, it's the same way in the NBA - tons of people will watch a game because Lebron James is playing, Steph Curry, and a handful of other guys. But most of the NBA players, on their own, are not big draws because of their "likeness" either.
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