nbhoya
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Post by nbhoya on Oct 4, 2017 10:04:48 GMT -5
Let's keep in mind that this all comes from an Arkansas blogger (and presumably booster and/or alumnus who is having direct communications with recruits?) who conveniently brings Leblanc back into play for UA and also eliminates the Hoyas for Phillips leaving only Fresno and SMU as the competition to UA. Could still all be true of course, but, you know, that "consider the source" thing? Actually Leblanc posted that he was re-opening his enrollment on his Twitter page
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 4, 2017 10:12:00 GMT -5
Look, maybe I'm wrong to feel this way, but if Georgetown, one of the top academic schools in the country with a HOF college and NBA player and 14 year NBA coach, ain't good enough for you now, it won't be good enough for you in the spring... I think we tend to overstate this "14 year NBA coach" point. Being an assistant coach is not the same as a head coach. I agree. It doesn't really matter that much. Being a famous Hall of Fame player might get Ewing audiences with some people, and he might be able to more easily connect with some high school/AAU coaches (since they'll want to meet him), but Ewing is still an unproven college coach inheriting a pretty bad team that lost its two best players. I think some Georgetown fans forget that outside the Georgetown sphere, Ewing is basically known as a famous basketball player who played a long time ago. Whether right or wrong, I don't think people really care that he was an NBA assistant for 14 years. Keep in mind that Ewing's coaching has generally been of guys who have already made the NBA (i.e., all players significantly better than those on our current roster). It's not necessarily translatable to college. I hope it is, but we just have no idea now. My sense is that the reason we've gotten to the point of being in a lot of guy's top 2 or 3 is that recruits generally like what Ewing and the staff is selling but they have jitters about going all in because of the uncertainty around the program, and our recent poor records.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Oct 4, 2017 10:16:40 GMT -5
Let's keep in mind that this all comes from an Arkansas blogger (and presumably booster and/or alumnus who is having direct communications with recruits?) who conveniently brings Leblanc back into play for UA and also eliminates the Hoyas for Phillips leaving only Fresno and SMU as the competition to UA. Could still all be true of course, but, you know, that "consider the source" thing? To be fair to the writer he did put the word possibility in quotation marks when referring to Arkansas.. Plus he's stating that he talked to LeBlanc directly, you can't get a better source than that.. Same goes for Phillips.. If the info is bad, then the players or folks around them should have it corrected..
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Oct 4, 2017 10:50:06 GMT -5
Let's keep in mind that this all comes from an Arkansas blogger (and presumably booster and/or alumnus who is having direct communications with recruits?) who conveniently brings Leblanc back into play for UA and also eliminates the Hoyas for Phillips leaving only Fresno and SMU as the competition to UA. Could still all be true of course, but, you know, that "consider the source" thing? Actually Leblanc posted that he was re-opening his enrollment on his Twitter page We oldsters are not in the Twitter world, thanks for the update. Disregard my previous musings.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Oct 4, 2017 10:55:43 GMT -5
I think we tend to overstate this "14 year NBA coach" point. Being an assistant coach is not the same as a head coach. I agree. It doesn't really matter that much. Being a famous Hall of Fame player might get Ewing audiences with some people, and he might be able to more easily connect with some high school/AAU coaches (since they'll want to meet him), but Ewing is still an unproven college coach inheriting a pretty bad team that lost its two best players. I think some Georgetown fans forget that outside the Georgetown sphere, Ewing is basically known as a famous basketball player who played a long time ago. Whether right or wrong, I don't think people really care that he was an NBA assistant for 14 years. Keep in mind that Ewing's coaching has generally been of guys who have already made the NBA (i.e., all players significantly better than those on our current roster). It's not necessarily translatable to college. I hope it is, but we just have no idea now. My sense is that the reason we've gotten to the point of being in a lot of guy's top 2 or 3 is that recruits generally like what Ewing and the staff is selling but they have jitters about going all in because of the uncertainty around the program, and our recent poor records. Of course I agree that we have no idea how successful Patrick will be as a head coach, nor as a college coach. But he knows exactly what it takes for a player to SUCCEED (not just to be drafted) in the NBA, what kind of work is needed, both on and off the court, the mentality and commitment required, etc. That can certainly be a plus in recruiting, and does not simply rely on his reputation as a player.
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95hoya
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Post by 95hoya on Oct 4, 2017 10:58:53 GMT -5
It looks good on a resume. It doesn't matter nearly as much as cultivating relationships.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Oct 4, 2017 11:05:21 GMT -5
It is not just a resume line. Patrick has almost assuredly worked closely with players who have the same skill sets as these recruits, and can talk to them in detail about how this shooter, that point guard, this big man has made himself an NBA player, starter, all-star. That will not be enough by itself to earn a conmitment - but trying to claim that it does not matter at all is just baseless.
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95hoya
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Post by 95hoya on Oct 4, 2017 13:46:16 GMT -5
It's just far down the list of things that matter in recruitments. And getting players to the league matter more to these guys than helping develop guys once they are there. So remember that when you ding other coaches for not having NBA experience. It's harder to sell the development of grown men who were great college players than it is the still growing, maturing kids who enter college.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 14:12:39 GMT -5
Don't think you can talk about recruits like they are monolithic. Recruits want this, recruits want that etc... His pro experience is important to some, not to others.
Coaches have to use everything in their playbook to lure recruits. Coaches have to tailor their message to each recruit. It's just another selling point. Nothing more, nothing less
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s4hoyas
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Post by s4hoyas on Oct 4, 2017 14:36:35 GMT -5
I think you're vastly underselling Patrick's experiences at EVERY level over the last approx. 35 years, as if coaching in college has some magical, unique quality to it that effectively overshadows or in some way minimizes all his other experiences...following your analogy, high school coaches would be the best developers of talent because they work with the pre maturing kids before the college coaches get them as maturing kids and then the NBA as grown men...if you've been the #1 high school player/recruit in the country, a 3 or 4 time college All American and Defensive player of the Year, a 14 year NBA All Star and top 50 all time player, an Olympic Gold medalist, as well as an asst coach and asst HEAD coach for 14 years in the NBA (with many years under HOF or highly regarded coaches) I would think that your experiences, knowledge of the game and ability to communicate that would probably far exceed that of the great majority of college coaches in the game today (with the exception of maybe the top 12-15 elite coaches)...I would also think that he would have an advantage in getting players to the league, simply because he's "been there, done that" for an extensive period of time vs. probably 90% of college coaches who have not...his biggest adjustment to me initially will be the "administrative" side of the game, i.e. the rules, shot clock, etc.You really think that guys like Will Wade, Kevin Keatts, Holtman of OSU bring more to the table than Patrick Ewing just because they been college coaches for a few years? Give him 2 or 3 years and I think you'll see the impact of his experience...these kids who hesitate today to commit to him may look back in regret down the line...
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 5, 2017 10:39:18 GMT -5
I think you're vastly underselling Patrick's experiences at EVERY level over the last approx. 35 years, as if coaching in college has some magical, unique quality to it that effectively overshadows or in some way minimizes all his other experiences...following your analogy, high school coaches would be the best developers of talent because they work with the pre maturing kids before the college coaches get them as maturing kids and then the NBA as grown men...if you've been the #1 high school player/recruit in the country, a 3 or 4 time college All American and Defensive player of the Year, a 14 year NBA All Star and top 50 all time player, an Olympic Gold medalist, as well as an asst coach and asst HEAD coach for 14 years in the NBA (with many years under HOF or highly regarded coaches) I would think that your experiences, knowledge of the game and ability to communicate that would probably far exceed that of the great majority of college coaches in the game today (with the exception of maybe the top 12-15 elite coaches)...I would also think that he would have an advantage in getting players to the league, simply because he's "been there, done that" for an extensive period of time vs. probably 90% of college coaches who have not...his biggest adjustment to me initially will be the "administrative" side of the game, i.e. the rules, shot clock, etc.You really think that guys like Will Wade, Kevin Keatts, Holtman of OSU bring more to the table than Patrick Ewing just because they been college coaches for a few years? Give him 2 or 3 years and I think you'll see the impact of his experience...these kids who hesitate today to commit to him may look back in regret down the line... Coaching in college does not have a "magical, unique quality to it," but it's undeniable that the NBA level and college level are drastically different. This is the main reason why when coaches from the college ranks go to the NBA they almost never succeed. A partial list of coaches who went straight from college to the NBA: Lon Kruger (Illinois to Atlanta Hawks): 69-122 from 2000-03, no playoffs Rick Pitino (Kentucky to Boston Celtics) 102-146 from 1997-2001, no playoffs John Calipari (UMass to New Jersey Nets): 72-112 from 1996-99, 0-3 in playoffs Tim Floyd (Iowa State to Chicago Bulls): 49-190 from 1998-2002, no playoffs Mike Montgomery (Stanford to Golden State Warriors): 68-96 from 2004-06, no playoffs P.J. Carlesimo (Seton Hall to Portland Trail Blazers): 136-109 from 1994-97, 3-9 in playoffs Reggie Theus (New Mexico State to Sacramento Kings): 44-62 from 2007-09, no playoffs Leonard Hamilton (Miami Hurricanes to Washington Wizards): 19-63 in 2000-01, no playoffs The collective record and winning percentage: 559-900 (.383) with a 3-12 playoff record over 22 seasons. (Note: I got this from a CBS Sports article: www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-coaches-to-nba-how-theyve-fared-the-past-20-years/)There are few successful assistant or head coaches in the NBA who have moved to college, obviously. The two levels just aren't comparable. Is it possible that Ewing will be a massively successful college coach? Absolutely. But he might not succeed. We just don't know - he hasn't even coached a game yet! Your analogy to high school fails too, because that's also very different. High school coaches do not have to recruit in the way college coaches do, though obviously they have to develop talent. Obviously, there are some similarities between high school, college, and NBA basketball. And Ewing's experience in the NBA may help him at the college level, for sure, but it simply is not true that Ewing's experience is directly translatable since taking the helm of a college program is very different from anything he's done before.
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Post by centercourt400s on Oct 5, 2017 15:16:27 GMT -5
This thread is veering off topic... the point about Ewing was that his background should be a huge plus for recruiting and for players who want to be coached by someone with incredible NBA connections. A guy like Leblanc is staring at an impressive opportunity to be coached by an NBA expert.
The chance of a successful coaching tenure for Ewing was not at issue.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 5, 2017 15:40:26 GMT -5
This thread is veering off topic... the point about Ewing was that his background should be a huge plus for recruiting and for players who want to be coached by someone with incredible NBA connections. A guy like Leblanc is staring at an impressive opportunity to be coached by an NBA expert. The chance of a successful coaching tenure for Ewing was not at issue. I don't want to be off topic, but the counterbalance to Ewing's background (which is definitely unique) is all the other stuff, including that he's an unproven coach. So it's relevant. We can focus on the positives, but let's not pretend like there aren't negatives out there. Of course, if Ewing succeeds, then the negatives drop away and he maintains the positives.
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Hordac
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Post by Hordac on Oct 5, 2017 15:42:34 GMT -5
Hoyareport is indicating that Josh LeBlanc will probably attend Midnight Madness next week.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Oct 5, 2017 16:10:54 GMT -5
Hoyareport is indicating that Josh LeBlanc will probably attend Midnight Madness next week. So he and Fleming can commit together that night
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s4hoyas
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Post by s4hoyas on Oct 5, 2017 16:32:12 GMT -5
Hoyasaxa2003...here's the problem with your analysis...you reference the winning % of coaches who have gone from college to the NBA...look at the %s of those guys after they went to college coaching after the NBA (guys like Calipari, Pitino and several others), which is what PE is doing...albeit not a head coach in the NBA but an asst. and an asst head coach there, now coming into college...the winning %s are much greater in that scenario which is a positive indicator...my point was that, even though lacking direct college coaching experience, PE has an overwhelming amount of experience as both a player and NBA asst coach that gives him the tools to be successful...in addition to being of good character, very likeable, highly connected and well respected by the NBA coaching community...so to your point, yes he could fail or succeed because technically he's still in "unchartered" waters as a college coach, but he brings a ton of experience to the table, and in my mind if he recruits well, he will be successful.
P.S. LeBlanc coming to midnight madness is HUGE...is there an indication that Fleming may be coming as well? That would also be HUGE...
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Oct 5, 2017 16:42:27 GMT -5
Pure speculation from me but I think Josh was set on going to A&M to join his family/friends and was keeping us in as a favor to Darrel Owens who's a big part of his life. Then his mom started pushing for the Hoyas and there was some compromise made to see how the Hoyas look once the season starts and if things have changed the Josh heads to the hilltop. I think the delaying of the announcement might help as long as we show semblance of playing a player conducive style of basketball this season.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Oct 5, 2017 19:50:52 GMT -5
I think you're vastly underselling Patrick's experiences at EVERY level over the last approx. 35 years, as if coaching in college has some magical, unique quality to it that effectively overshadows or in some way minimizes all his other experiences...following your analogy, high school coaches would be the best developers of talent because they work with the pre maturing kids before the college coaches get them as maturing kids and then the NBA as grown men...if you've been the #1 high school player/recruit in the country, a 3 or 4 time college All American and Defensive player of the Year, a 14 year NBA All Star and top 50 all time player, an Olympic Gold medalist, as well as an asst coach and asst HEAD coach for 14 years in the NBA (with many years under HOF or highly regarded coaches) I would think that your experiences, knowledge of the game and ability to communicate that would probably far exceed that of the great majority of college coaches in the game today (with the exception of maybe the top 12-15 elite coaches)...I would also think that he would have an advantage in getting players to the league, simply because he's "been there, done that" for an extensive period of time vs. probably 90% of college coaches who have not...his biggest adjustment to me initially will be the "administrative" side of the game, i.e. the rules, shot clock, etc.You really think that guys like Will Wade, Kevin Keatts, Holtman of OSU bring more to the table than Patrick Ewing just because they been college coaches for a few years? Give him 2 or 3 years and I think you'll see the impact of his experience...these kids who hesitate today to commit to him may look back in regret down the line... Coaching in college does not have a "magical, unique quality to it," but it's undeniable that the NBA level and college level are drastically different. This is the main reason why when coaches from the college ranks go to the NBA they almost never succeed. A partial list of coaches who went straight from college to the NBA: Lon Kruger (Illinois to Atlanta Hawks): 69-122 from 2000-03, no playoffs Rick Pitino (Kentucky to Boston Celtics) 102-146 from 1997-2001, no playoffs John Calipari (UMass to New Jersey Nets): 72-112 from 1996-99, 0-3 in playoffs Tim Floyd (Iowa State to Chicago Bulls): 49-190 from 1998-2002, no playoffs Mike Montgomery (Stanford to Golden State Warriors): 68-96 from 2004-06, no playoffs P.J. Carlesimo (Seton Hall to Portland Trail Blazers): 136-109 from 1994-97, 3-9 in playoffs Reggie Theus (New Mexico State to Sacramento Kings): 44-62 from 2007-09, no playoffs Leonard Hamilton (Miami Hurricanes to Washington Wizards): 19-63 in 2000-01, no playoffs The collective record and winning percentage: 559-900 (.383) with a 3-12 playoff record over 22 seasons. (Note: I got this from a CBS Sports article: www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-coaches-to-nba-how-theyve-fared-the-past-20-years/)There are few successful assistant or head coaches in the NBA who have moved to college, obviously. The two levels just aren't comparable. Is it possible that Ewing will be a massively successful college coach? Absolutely. But he might not succeed. We just don't know - he hasn't even coached a game yet! Your analogy to high school fails too, because that's also very different. High school coaches do not have to recruit in the way college coaches do, though obviously they have to develop talent. Obviously, there are some similarities between high school, college, and NBA basketball. And Ewing's experience in the NBA may help him at the college level, for sure, but it simply is not true that Ewing's experience is directly translatable since taking the helm of a college program is very different from anything he's done before. Perhaps this is ancient history, but how about Fred Schaus and Dr. Jack Ramsey?
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Post by veilside21 on Oct 6, 2017 8:51:00 GMT -5
dont want to be off topic but check out OKC given that Thunder had durant but even without durant donovan proved that he is a coach. I think PE can do the same its just a matter of convincing these kids to play for him
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Post by thejerseytornado on Oct 6, 2017 9:01:48 GMT -5
that list is bad because that list is out of date.
Recent college -> pro coaches are Brad Stevens, Billy Donovan, and Fred Hoiberg. Two of three ain't bad.
Most NBA coaches fail. Because failed coaches don't last long, so they cycle in and out. Good coaches have long tenures, so they don't cycle in and out. The list tells us very little useful info.
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