Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Apr 5, 2017 9:08:05 GMT -5
Really? Lamenting how well the search in 2004 was such a well-kept secret but this 2017 search was just full of leaks? I don't even know where to begin. Geez, Twitter wasn't even around in 2004!!!! We have no idea that any of these so-called leaks actually were leaks and were legitimate. Someone bought into the Thamel narrative hook, line, and sinker. Sad! Though he tries to dress it up as otherwise, this is just a meandering rumination complaining (though he tries to deny it) that PE got the job. I honestly don't even understand the process critique. It should have been quieter? Its Editeding 2017, there are 40 reporters with sources who want to break news on this and candidates or wanna-be-candidates with the desire to put their names out there. Just last week I was reading about how quiet things were on this front, and its true--this was the quietest coaching search I can recall. There are no quiet coaching searches in 2017--indeed there is no quiet anything in 2017. Just like last time around when he grumbled incorrectly about the III hire, I look forward to his "clarification" two years from now when Ewing is winning about how he actually learned more about the process later from insiders and now gives it his stamp of approval.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Apr 5, 2017 9:40:50 GMT -5
So the search was too loud but the team and administration are too quiet? Got it.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Apr 5, 2017 9:50:01 GMT -5
so DFW acknowledges that the "Georgetown Way" is those that know don't talk and those that talk don't know, and then he goes on to toss a fit about what those that talk were saying... um, ok.
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hoya95
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoya95 on Apr 5, 2017 9:51:39 GMT -5
The only thing anyone is going to care about in five years is whether Ewing is successful. But this search process didn't make us look good at all. If anyone from the Georgetown side was leaking names they were after only to get rejected, then they are insane. However, you can't stop the people who were contacted from leaking, nor can you stop coaches who are looking for buzz or a raise from floating their names to willing reporters. This whole episode has been extremely unpleasant. Hope we can forget about it soon.
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Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Apr 5, 2017 10:51:49 GMT -5
Someone as astute as DFW playing into the hack Thamel's lastest hatchet job is so disappointing. Let's move forward, folks. It's a new day with new possibilities. Let's get some players who want to play hard. I hope some of them are on the current roster.
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This Just In
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Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Apr 5, 2017 11:11:46 GMT -5
In the end recruitment of talent and coaching the talent up on the roster fell off to an unacceptable level.
I rate: DePaul a 1 St. Johns a 4 Gtown a 3 as far as where the program is...
Which means on a scale of 1 to 10 of how hard a rebuilding job the Hoyas' are with 10 being the hardest, the rebuilding job is a 7.
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Post by upstatesaxa on Apr 5, 2017 14:02:48 GMT -5
I don't want to judge this "search" simply based on its outcome. Though it is reminiscent of the time younger George Bush tasked Dick Cheney with finding a Vice Presidential nominee... and we all know how that "search" turned out. But hey, they didn't waste any dough on Korn Ferry in the process.
All I can go by is what happened, and what was said. Lets start with that, knowing that no institution ever says anything straight out -
Here’s what our “leaders” said, with my commentary:
Univ President:
"Patrick's commitment to Georgetown and to further animating [“ANIMATING?” WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? IS THIS MODERN DAY CATHOLIC EDUCATION JARGON? OR DOES IT JUST MEAN NOTHING, ITS HYPE] our [TARNISHED] legacy of [LONG AGO] excellence is inspiring [INSPIRING = ANIMATING]" said University President John J. DeGioia. "He is a visionary leader [HUH? WHAT? PAT IS A GREAT GUY AND GOOD ASSISTANT COACH BUT NOT ABE LINCOLN OR MARTIN LUTHER KING] with a deep connection to our community [TRUE].
....His experience as a coach over the last 15 years with some of the best basketball minds in the country [NONE OF WHOM EVER WON AN NBA TITLE] has prepared him to lead our program [WE PRAY]. We very much look forward to welcoming him back to our Hilltop as the Head Coach of our men's basketball team."
Athletic Director:
"After a very thorough national search [REALLY? I GUESS WE GOTTA TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT THOUGH, RIGHT?], Patrick Ewing emerged as the talented leader [THOUGH, HAS NEVER BEEN A HEAD COACH] best prepared to coach the Hoyas in this new era of highly competitive college basketball," Georgetown Director of Intercollegiate Athletics Lee Reed said. "To hire a head coach with this depth of coaching experience and personal achievements is tremendous. It is a thrill to have him come back to his alma mater and continue [MORE LIKE, RESURRECT] the legacy of tradition and success he had as a student-athlete on the Hilltop."
Re the process: As many have noted, we moved slow on our program direction decision. If Korn Ferry was needed, they should have been in place from the moment we needed a coach. I do not fault the fact that we did not get progress reports.
I hope it works out. I don’t blame Ewing. I just think our school never has managed this hugely prominent aspect of the university in a straightforward, competent way.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Apr 5, 2017 14:46:16 GMT -5
I don't want to judge this "search" simply based on its outcome. Though it is reminiscent of the time younger George Bush tasked Dick Cheney with finding a Vice Presidential nominee... and we all know how that "search" turned out. But hey, they didn't waste any dough on Korn Ferry in the process. All I can go by is what happened, and what was said. Lets start with that, knowing that no institution ever says anything straight out - Here’s what our “leaders” said, with my commentary: Univ President: "Patrick's commitment to Georgetown and to further animating [“ANIMATING?” WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? IS THIS MODERN DAY CATHOLIC EDUCATION JARGON? OR DOES IT JUST MEAN NOTHING, ITS HYPE] our [TARNISHED] legacy of [LONG AGO] excellence is inspiring [INSPIRING = ANIMATING]" said University President John J. DeGioia. "He is a visionary leader [HUH? WHAT? PAT IS A GREAT GUY AND GOOD ASSISTANT COACH BUT NOT ABE LINCOLN OR MARTIN LUTHER KING] with a deep connection to our community [TRUE]. ....His experience as a coach over the last 15 years with some of the best basketball minds in the country [NONE OF WHOM EVER WON AN NBA TITLE] has prepared him to lead our program [WE PRAY]. We very much look forward to welcoming him back to our Hilltop as the Head Coach of our men's basketball team." Athletic Director: "After a very thorough national search [REALLY? I GUESS WE GOTTA TAKE YOUR WORD FOR IT THOUGH, RIGHT?], Patrick Ewing emerged as the talented leader [THOUGH, HAS NEVER BEEN A HEAD COACH] best prepared to coach the Hoyas in this new era of highly competitive college basketball," Georgetown Director of Intercollegiate Athletics Lee Reed said. "To hire a head coach with this depth of coaching experience and personal achievements is tremendous. It is a thrill to have him come back to his alma mater and continue [MORE LIKE, RESURRECT] the legacy of tradition and success he had as a student-athlete on the Hilltop." Re the process: As many have noted, we moved slow on our program direction decision. If Korn Ferry was needed, they should have been in place from the moment we needed a coach. I do not fault the fact that we did not get progress reports. I hope it works out. I don’t blame Ewing. I just think our school never has managed this hugely prominent aspect of the university in a straightforward, competent way. It feels as if someone who is outside the family and wants to get in can't. How the process was ran left a lot to be desired and thus Ewing and the program will be under a microscope of performance. Coaches available at least 3 to 5 of these coaches were never contacted: Danny Hurley Tom Crean King Rice Jamion Christian James Jones The media attention surrounding Patrick Ewing's hire has been great And for people who complain about JTII's shadow, this should be the last stand The basketball program is at a cross roads as the next couple of years will determine our direction It has been 10 years and counting since post season success JTIII has left the program in bad shape and whom ever the coach is would have an uphill battle to get the program back to a respectable level. Ewing got chosen now the job is his. Great players have not made for great coaches. If Ewing does not work out then the clean break happens and the opposite should happen if he does work out and the program is on solid footing for years to come. The shape of the program is being under estimated and rebuilding is not going to be easy with issues in the back and front court. Below are the teams that have owned the Hoyas for 4 years Record Vs. Villanova: 1-7 (.125) Record Vs. Providence: 1-7 (.125) Record Vs. Xavier: 2-6 (.250) Record vs Seton Hall : 2-6 (.250) Combined Record 6-26 (.187) Keep an eye out as to how we look against these teams under Ewing. This will give insight as to whether the culture of the last 4 years has changed or not.
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Post by upstatesaxa on Apr 5, 2017 18:25:55 GMT -5
It feels as if someone who is outside the family and wants to get in can't. How the process was ran left a lot to be desired and thus Ewing and the program will be under a microscope of performance. Coaches available at least 3 to 5 of these coaches were never contacted: Danny Hurley Tom Crean King Rice Jamion Christian James Jones Here's my bottom line on this otherwise very feel good day: When the leadership statements are obvious baloney, I don't believe anything they say, or trust what they do. Period. I believe Patrick 1,000X more than the guys who searched, interviewed and hired him. He just feels like a more authentic person. And that animates and inspires me.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Apr 5, 2017 18:52:15 GMT -5
So when Patrick says he called them, not the other way around...
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 6, 2017 15:22:35 GMT -5
More trickles of information about the "search." Sounds more like behind the scenes lobbying of key influencers and getting the nod from the Godfather drove decision-making than anything else. www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/5/patrick-ewing-takes-over-georgetown/ theundefeated.com/features/patrick-ewing-restore-georgetowns-glory-days/So the most obvious 'gettable' candidates (Hurley, Rice, Crean, etc.) were either not contacted or never seriously considered. The aspirational contacts outside of the "family" were for guys firmly entrenched elsewhere (Smart, Brey, Cooley, Mack) and unlikely to leave. Tommy Amaker, an uninspired but competent candidate was the only other name under serious consideration but likely only because he was a JT2-approved Falk client. That's what you call a high major D1 coaching search? This sort of insular, narrow process is anything but healthy. No wonder some coaches didn't want anything to do with Georgetown. This is not how a high major program should operate. Is it possible to be both happy for Pat but disappointed in how Georgetown hoops is administered? I hope we luck out and Pat is some kind of college hoops coaching master ready to emerge, but the way this played out is disheartening. Maybe Georgetown admins should worry less about recreating 1982 photo ops and worry more about winning some Big East games in 2018. Are you on the bus or off the bus?
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Post by practice on Apr 6, 2017 16:05:47 GMT -5
More trickles of information about the "search." Sounds more like behind the scenes lobbying of key influencers and getting the nod from the Godfather drove decision-making than anything else. www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/5/patrick-ewing-takes-over-georgetown/ theundefeated.com/features/patrick-ewing-restore-georgetowns-glory-days/So the most obvious 'gettable' candidates (Hurley, Rice, Crean, etc.) were either not contacted or never seriously considered. The aspirational contacts outside of the "family" were for guys firmly entrenched elsewhere (Smart, Brey, Cooley, Mack) and unlikely to leave. Tommy Amaker, an uninspired but competent candidate was the only other name under serious consideration but likely only because he was a JT2-approved Falk client. That's what you call a high major D1 coaching search? This sort of insular, narrow process is anything but healthy. No wonder some coaches didn't want anything to do with Georgetown. This is not how a high major program should operate. Is it possible to be both happy for Pat but disappointed in how Georgetown hoops is administered? I hope we luck out and Pat is some kind of college hoops coaching master ready to emerge, but the way this played out is disheartening. Maybe Georgetown admins should worry less about recreating 1982 photo ops and worry more about winning some Big East games in 2018. Are you on the bus or off the bus? Correct me if I'm wrong ... but I think Ewing today said on the Dan Patrick show that JT2 called him and told him to apply for the job ... if true, what the f$%$ was Korn Ferry, Reed, Tagliabue etc doing? Just getting rejected left and right?
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Post by upstatesaxa on Apr 6, 2017 19:13:30 GMT -5
More trickles of information about the "search." Sounds more like behind the scenes lobbying of key influencers and getting the nod from the Godfather drove decision-making than anything else. www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/5/patrick-ewing-takes-over-georgetown/ theundefeated.com/features/patrick-ewing-restore-georgetowns-glory-days/So the most obvious 'gettable' candidates (Hurley, Rice, Crean, etc.) were either not contacted or never seriously considered. The aspirational contacts outside of the "family" were for guys firmly entrenched elsewhere (Smart, Brey, Cooley, Mack) and unlikely to leave. Tommy Amaker, an uninspired but competent candidate was the only other name under serious consideration but likely only because he was a JT2-approved Falk client. That's what you call a high major D1 coaching search? This sort of insular, narrow process is anything but healthy. No wonder some coaches didn't want anything to do with Georgetown. This is not how a high major program should operate. Is it possible to be both happy for Pat but disappointed in how Georgetown hoops is administered? I hope we luck out and Pat is some kind of college hoops coaching master ready to emerge, but the way this played out is disheartening. Maybe Georgetown admins should worry less about recreating 1982 photo ops and worry more about winning some Big East games in 2018. The whole 80's nostalgia has to be kept in check. Over in the assistant coaching thread they want to put the whole gang back together.... be a bunch of 6 foot nine inch guys with gray hair, all smelling like Ben Gay. Please. Our head coach is old; the staff has to be balanced with youth and energy. Yes I understand that there needs to be a guide to the college/recruiting world. But that could be a younger guy. Sounds like the search may have been a farce as many suspected all along. The good thing is, hopefully by the time of the NEXT search, the whole cast (Pops, Tagliabue, Reed, and especially DeG) will be off the stage. I don't think "Hoya" = Latin for "job for life."
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CTHoya08
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Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Apr 6, 2017 19:17:47 GMT -5
More trickles of information about the "search." Sounds more like behind the scenes lobbying of key influencers and getting the nod from the Godfather drove decision-making than anything else. www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/5/patrick-ewing-takes-over-georgetown/ theundefeated.com/features/patrick-ewing-restore-georgetowns-glory-days/So the most obvious 'gettable' candidates (Hurley, Rice, Crean, etc.) were either not contacted or never seriously considered. The aspirational contacts outside of the "family" were for guys firmly entrenched elsewhere (Smart, Brey, Cooley, Mack) and unlikely to leave. Tommy Amaker, an uninspired but competent candidate was the only other name under serious consideration but likely only because he was a JT2-approved Falk client. That's what you call a high major D1 coaching search? This sort of insular, narrow process is anything but healthy. No wonder some coaches didn't want anything to do with Georgetown. This is not how a high major program should operate. Is it possible to be both happy for Pat but disappointed in how Georgetown hoops is administered? I hope we luck out and Pat is some kind of college hoops coaching master ready to emerge, but the way this played out is disheartening. Maybe Georgetown admins should worry less about recreating 1982 photo ops and worry more about winning some Big East games in 2018. Yes, yes it is.
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McBricks
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What Rocks.
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Post by McBricks on Apr 6, 2017 19:31:33 GMT -5
I've noted previously that I was disappointed by the Ewing hire. I wanted a fresh start with someone outside the Thompson "family" and was hopeful this search had a chance. I wanted someone "young and hungry." I fear that Ewing is neither.
However, I've begun to change my tone. Patrick is doing all the right things. He's our coach, so frankly, I don't have any other option to root for him to do well. I know (and knew) next season was going to be a mess. So finishing anything above 8th in the BE will be "overperforming" in my opinion.
Here's my hope - - there is marketing gold here with Patrick and I hope Georgetown takes advantage of it. This could also be recruiting gold if done well. I love that Patrick is doing a ton of interviews and I truly hope this continues. I love that he's mentioned AI and is visiting Tremont. Sign up some good assistants and keep the cycling breathing. Ask to be a commentator during the NBA playoffs (for free) and get some more publicity.
This news cycle will die pretty quickly, so the more he gets out now and talks about the Hoyas the better.
Patrick Ewing is our man. Let's give him our support and see what he does with it.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Apr 6, 2017 19:36:07 GMT -5
In the end recruitment of talent and coaching the talent up on the roster fell off to an unacceptable level. I rate: DePaul a 1 St. Johns a 4 Gtown a 3 as far as where the program is... Which means on a scale of 1 to 10 of how hard a rebuilding job the Hoyas' are with 10 being the hardest, the rebuilding job is a 7. This is not even close to being true....every single person in the media and coaching industry I've personally spoken to has said this is an easy rebuilding job, if done correctly. Not one - and I've spoken to plenty of people - said this is a difficult rebuilding job.
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Post by tboy on Apr 6, 2017 19:50:24 GMT -5
Someone as astute as DFW playing into the hack Thamel's lastest hatchet job is so disappointing. Let's move forward, folks. It's a new day with new possibilities. Let's get some players who want to play hard. I hope some of them are on the current roster. Horsefeathers
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Apr 6, 2017 20:18:14 GMT -5
The whole 80's nostalgia has to be kept in check. Over in the assistant coaching thread they want to put the whole gang back together.... be a bunch of 6 foot nine inch guys with gray hair, all smelling like Ben Gay. Please. Our head coach is old; the staff has to be balanced with youth and energy. Yes I understand that there needs to be a guide to the college/recruiting world. But that could be a younger guy. Sounds like the search may have been a farce as many suspected all along. The good thing is, hopefully by the time of the NEXT search, the whole cast (Pops, Tagliabue, Reed, and especially DeG) will be off the stage. I don't think "Hoya" = Latin for "job for life." Feels like our assistant search's next two targets might be Michael J. Fox and the other guy from Wham!
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bamahoya11
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Post by bamahoya11 on Apr 6, 2017 20:57:13 GMT -5
This search was the first search I have gone through as a Georgetown fan. I wasn't following the team when Georgetown fired Esherick and hired JTIII, so this was my first exposure to it. Having now gone through this search, my view of the program has changed.
Before the search, I viewed the Georgetown program as a top 15-20 basketball program. Like most other such programs, the fans had relatively high expectations but also realized that we are a step below the truly elite programs (Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, etc.). Georgetown paid big money for a coach and accordingly expected big results. Moreover, although the program celebrated its past (more than comparable institutions), it was not fully wedded to it. Thus, as the calls for JTIII to be removed grew louder, I figured we would do what other top 20 programs do -- we would hire a trusted, established name to bring a fresh set of eyes to the program and rebuild it. And spare me the notion that absolutely no established name would have come. Although I don't have personal knowledge of the search, I have every confidence that we could have gotten an established current college head coach to lead the Hoyas.
Instead, we didn't go that direction. We went with a former player who isn't a natural fit for the position -- NBA assistant, no head coaching experience, no college coaching experience. And, for the most part, this Board supported that decision in full. Folks like me who didn't like this approach were largely dismissed, though we were a vocal minority.
That has led me to a simple conclusion -- whatever I might want, Georgetown is firmly within the orbit of the Thompson family, and it will be for the foreseeable future. Although this is a loaded statement on this board, I'm trying to be neutral -- this is just a statement of where things are. The Thompson influence is not just because of JTII's personal exertion of control. It's because a core of the administrative leadership and a significant core of the fan base are more comfortable with that connection to the past than embracing the future. I saw this play out firsthand on this board. The vulnerabilities and weaknesses of other coaches were dissected thoroughly, while Ewing's own weaknesses were either downplayed or ignored outright. Indeed, most folks on here used his lack of a record as positive; it's really hard to prove that someone with no head coaching record can't be an effective head coach. Frankly, I think the administration at Georgetown had a similar conversation. They explored some other options, and then, like the fan base, quickly retreated to what made them comfortable, especially once it became clear that it would be difficult, and possibly messy, to obtain an established head coaching name.
Simply put, a critical mass of the fan base and a critical mass of Georgetown's leadership want a program that remains interwoven with its past. Both bases of support are also deeply suspicious of change, of anything that seems to suggest a departure from the program's history. I think that's why you have a few die-hards on here defending even some of the most trivial things to do with Georgetown, like playing outdated music at games or affirmatively supporting a refusal to consider advanced analytics or other new tech that enhances the game for a lot of teams (personally, I'm fine with the outdated music because that's what I listen to anyway, but still). Thus, Patrick Ewing is the hire we have and the only type of hire that the program can currently support. There just isn't enough interest in the program to support the type of wholesale changes that plenty of us want.
Now, again, I'm not trying to slam the Ewing hire. The time for arguing about that was before the hire was made, not after. But I think it's a mistake to act like this hire happened and now everyone just retreats to their proverbial corners. The administration was confronted with a clear choice -- choose the quintessential throwback hire, a person who speaks to the greatest days of the program's history, or take a chance on a face of the future. The school opted for the former choice, with the support of a majority of this board. I hope these folks are right, and we can win big with Ewing. For me, that'll be a pleasant surprise.
But I will not support these same folks who promoted Ewing wildly on this board coming back in 2-3 years if we are struggling and begging for a change of direction. We had our chance for a change of direction this year. And we didn't take it. We chose to go with the "family" approach, whatever that means. Personally, I hope we win big. But if we lose big, I think that's the program we have chosen and the program the University deserves. Georgetown chose to go all-in on the past, and I think they have to take the good with the bad in that regard. I would not be willing to support any further changes, even if I believed they were necessary, unless I believed that the school and the fan base were actually ready to make them.
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lurkerhoya
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Post by lurkerhoya on Apr 7, 2017 7:40:53 GMT -5
Cool story, brah.
This isn't a knock on your lack of experience with the program, but I've been beating a similar drum for a while. The fact is, this is just a different job, you probably haven't been around long enough to appreciate that. GO back and read my posts since the 23rd, I practically called to a T what was going to go down, and I know nothing more than what I read and what I know from years of watching this.
But, really, the main difference between you and I, it doesn't bother me.
I don't want Tom Crean, who seems like a nice enough guy, but doesn't really have any idea what makes this place special.
I don't want Danny Hurley, who is going to use the first Sweet 16 he makes to ask for a raise or bolt to some perceived better job.
I don't want Mike Brey, because beyond breaking with the past it would be spitting in its face no matter how good a coach he is.
If the fact that we didn't hire a name you liked or wanted has changed your ideas of the program, it says more about you than the program. If the fact that we didn't break from the past like you wanted us to bothers you, you really don't understand this University.
So, if you want to go to a game and say We Are Georgetown, it had better Editeding mean something...
I have no idea whether this hire will work out, but I certainly am willing to find out.
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