This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Mar 28, 2017 9:01:08 GMT -5
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 28, 2017 9:04:19 GMT -5
I think the world of Ewing the player and was at Georgetown for his final year and then spent 6 years in New York watching him revitalize the Knicks. No argument about his toughness and on court leadership capabilities. But what separates him from any other career NBA assistant coach with no college experience? Just his Hoya legacy. How does that qualify him as a college coach. Seriously, I am trying to understand what evidence people are viewing to determine that he would be a good hire to lead the program. I think that he is a bigger question mark than almost any other candidate mentioned. I would like to believe that this could work out, but emotional investment aside, I just cannot understand the excitement other than again trying to retain the connection to the past greatness of the Hoya program. I don't think Georgetown factoring in the connection to the program as one of many factors considered in evaluating a prospective coaching candidate is any different than any college program. Look at North Carolina. Dean Smith to long time assistant Guthridge, to Matt Doherty(who had played under Smith and coached under Williams). Before Doherty was hired UNC reportedly reached out to George Karl, Larry Brown, and Eddie Fogler (all North Carolina alumni) who passed on the job. When Doherty was hired he received criticism for bringing his ND staff with him and firing assistants Phil Ford, Pat Sullivan (former UNC players). Matt Doherty was National Coach of the Year in Year 1 than Years 2 (8-20) and 3 (NIT) were disasters with numerous transfers, so UNC hired former alum and assistant Roy Williams. Georgetown doesn't have the coaching trees of Coach K and Dean Smith, but to say that connection to the program isn't a factor is naive in any college search. These aren't professional franchises.
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playtyler
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by playtyler on Mar 28, 2017 9:26:50 GMT -5
SO it looks like Brey and Cooley are out from the recent articles. It is encouraging that at least feelers were sent to Brey and Cooley. Surprised we haven't heard that Smart is out. Which may be encouraging. Also, nothing on the Bennett's and Enfield, but I am virtually certain that those are non-starters. Assuming Smart and Bennett's/Enfield are out then we are looking at Hurley, Crean, Rice, Becker, Amaker and Ewing, as the most discussed candidates. I have heard pro and con for all of these. While I would prefer to have a coach that is not a giant embarrassing ahole (Crean/Hurley), the other options are pretty unproven. I guess I want a winning program more than anything else. I do think that Becker, Rice and Ewing might each be able to reinvigorate the program.
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caip
Member
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Post by caip on Mar 28, 2017 9:35:04 GMT -5
I think the world of Ewing the player and was at Georgetown for his final year and then spent 6 years in New York watching him revitalize the Knicks. No argument about his toughness and on court leadership capabilities. But what separates him from any other career NBA assistant coach with no college experience? Just his Hoya legacy. How does that qualify him as a college coach. Seriously, I am trying to understand what evidence people are viewing to determine that he would be a good hire to lead the program. I think that he is a bigger question mark than almost any other candidate mentioned. I would like to believe that this could work out, but emotional investment aside, I just cannot understand the excitement other than again trying to retain the connection to the past greatness of the Hoya program. I don't think Georgetown factoring in the connection to the program as one of many factors considered in evaluating a prospective coaching candidate is any different than any college program. Look at North Carolina. Dean Smith to long time assistant Guthridge, to Matt Doherty(who had played under Smith and coached under Williams). Before Doherty was hired UNC reportedly reached out to George Karl, Larry Brown, and Eddie Fogler (all North Carolina alumni) who passed on the job. When Doherty was hired he received criticism for bringing his ND staff with him and firing assistants Phil Ford, Pat Sullivan (former UNC players). Matt Doherty was National Coach of the Year in Year 1 than Years 2 (8-20) and 3 (NIT) were disasters with numerous transfers, so UNC hired former alum and assistant Roy Williams. Georgetown doesn't have the coaching trees of Coach K and Dean Smith, but to say that connection to the program isn't a factor is naive in any college search. These aren't professional franchises. I think in challenging the previous post, you have only reinforced it. To put Patrick Ewing's coaching resume up against any of the six names you mention is laughable. NC had the luxury of looking at all of the qualified candidates and then using the NC connection to put some over the top. Choosing Patrick would mean putting him over the top due to his GU connection - but skipping the initial screen of making sure he's in the qualified candidate pool.
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madgesiq92
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 28, 2017 9:39:32 GMT -5
SO it looks like Brey and Cooley are out from the recent articles. It is encouraging that at least feelers were sent to Brey and Cooley. Surprised we haven't heard that Smart is out. Which may be encouraging. Also, nothing on the Bennett's and Enfield, but I am virtually certain that those are non-starters. Assuming Smart and Bennett's/Enfield are out then we are looking at Hurley, Crean, Rice, Becker, Amaker and Ewing, as the most discussed candidates. I have heard pro and con for all of these. While I would prefer to have a coach that is not a giant embarrassing ahole (Crean/Hurley), the other options are pretty unproven. I guess I want a winning program more than anything else. I do think that Becker, Rice and Ewing might each be able to reinvigorate the program. Where is there any suggestion that King Rice would be in play. He would the longshot of longshots for me. Doesn't check any boxes, except "Fan perception that he has a more firey sideline demeanor than JT3" and "plays an entertaining fast paced no defense brand of basketball that would appeal to the And1 crowd." Neither are boxes to me. I attend 5-7 Monmouth games a year and think he would be the worst possible choice we could make. His embarrassing behavior when he returned to Chapel Hill this past December would be Exhibit #1. His teams blowing double digit leads as higher seeds in conference tournaments and NIT games because of lack of attention to detail and defensive effort would be Exhibit #2.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 28, 2017 9:41:51 GMT -5
Look at North Carolina. Dean Smith to long time assistant Guthridge, to Matt Doherty(who had played under Smith and coached under Williams). Before Doherty was hired UNC reportedly reached out to George Karl, Larry Brown, and Eddie Fogler (all North Carolina alumni) who passed on the job. When Doherty was hired he received criticism for bringing his ND staff with him and firing assistants Phil Ford, Pat Sullivan (former UNC players). Matt Doherty was National Coach of the Year in Year 1 than Years 2 (8-20) and 3 (NIT) were disasters with numerous transfers, so UNC hired former alum and assistant Roy Williams. Georgetown doesn't have the coaching trees of Coach K and Dean Smith, but to say that connection to the program isn't a factor is naive in any college search. These aren't professional franchises. Doherty (Notre Dame), Brown (UCLA) and Fogler (Wichira State, Vanderbilt) all had college coaching experience. It's not like UNC was interested in Michael Jordan or Bob McAdoo. Are some people worried that without a former player as coach, the program therefore loses identity? I don't buy it. This is a fair point. I guess a better comparison would be the NC State hiring of Sidney Lowe.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Mar 28, 2017 9:42:50 GMT -5
I got 2 questions: 1. Why is the link working 2. Why has not the information been updated
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 28, 2017 9:43:41 GMT -5
I think the world of Ewing the player and was at Georgetown for his final year and then spent 6 years in New York watching him revitalize the Knicks. No argument about his toughness and on court leadership capabilities. But what separates him from any other career NBA assistant coach with no college experience? Just his Hoya legacy. How does that qualify him as a college coach. Seriously, I am trying to understand what evidence people are viewing to determine that he would be a good hire to lead the program. I think that he is a bigger question mark than almost any other candidate mentioned. I would like to believe that this could work out, but emotional investment aside, I just cannot understand the excitement other than again trying to retain the connection to the past greatness of the Hoya program. I don't think Georgetown factoring in the connection to the program as one of many factors considered in evaluating a prospective coaching candidate is any different than any college program. Look at North Carolina. Dean Smith to long time assistant Guthridge, to Matt Doherty(who had played under Smith and coached under Williams). Before Doherty was hired UNC reportedly reached out to George Karl, Larry Brown, and Eddie Fogler (all North Carolina alumni) who passed on the job. When Doherty was hired he received criticism for bringing his ND staff with him and firing assistants Phil Ford, Pat Sullivan (former UNC players). Matt Doherty was National Coach of the Year in Year 1 than Years 2 (8-20) and 3 (NIT) were disasters with numerous transfers, so UNC hired former alum and assistant Roy Williams. Georgetown doesn't have the coaching trees of Coach K and Dean Smith, but to say that connection to the program isn't a factor is naive in any college search. These aren't professional franchises. The utter lack of any coaching tree from Thompson Jr's 27 year career as a head coach is kind of amazing. A few guys have had very limited success. Otherwise, nothing. Strange.
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Post by nychoya96 on Mar 28, 2017 9:44:08 GMT -5
Look at North Carolina. Dean Smith to long time assistant Guthridge, to Matt Doherty(who had played under Smith and coached under Williams). Before Doherty was hired UNC reportedly reached out to George Karl, Larry Brown, and Eddie Fogler (all North Carolina alumni) who passed on the job. When Doherty was hired he received criticism for bringing his ND staff with him and firing assistants Phil Ford, Pat Sullivan (former UNC players). Matt Doherty was National Coach of the Year in Year 1 than Years 2 (8-20) and 3 (NIT) were disasters with numerous transfers, so UNC hired former alum and assistant Roy Williams. Georgetown doesn't have the coaching trees of Coach K and Dean Smith, but to say that connection to the program isn't a factor is naive in any college search. These aren't professional franchises. Doherty (Notre Dame), Brown (UCLA) and Fogler (Wichira State, Vanderbilt) all had college coaching experience. It's not like UNC was interested in Michael Jordan or Bob McAdoo. Are some people worried that without a former player as coach, the program therefore loses identity? I don't buy it.
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caip
Member
Posts: 87
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Post by caip on Mar 28, 2017 9:45:36 GMT -5
Doherty (Notre Dame), Brown (UCLA) and Fogler (Wichira State, Vanderbilt) all had college coaching experience. It's not like UNC was interested in Michael Jordan or Bob McAdoo. Are some people worried that without a former player as coach, the program therefore loses identity? I don't buy it. This is a fair point. I guess a better comparison would be the NC State hiring of Sidney Lowe. ....and that's another cautionary tale in hiring Patrick (and Lowe had even been a head coach in the NBA).
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caip
Member
Posts: 87
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Post by caip on Mar 28, 2017 9:51:56 GMT -5
I don't think Georgetown factoring in the connection to the program as one of many factors considered in evaluating a prospective coaching candidate is any different than any college program. Look at North Carolina. Dean Smith to long time assistant Guthridge, to Matt Doherty(who had played under Smith and coached under Williams). Before Doherty was hired UNC reportedly reached out to George Karl, Larry Brown, and Eddie Fogler (all North Carolina alumni) who passed on the job. When Doherty was hired he received criticism for bringing his ND staff with him and firing assistants Phil Ford, Pat Sullivan (former UNC players). Matt Doherty was National Coach of the Year in Year 1 than Years 2 (8-20) and 3 (NIT) were disasters with numerous transfers, so UNC hired former alum and assistant Roy Williams. Georgetown doesn't have the coaching trees of Coach K and Dean Smith, but to say that connection to the program isn't a factor is naive in any college search. These aren't professional franchises. The utter lack of any coaching tree from Thompson Jr's 27 year career as a head coach is kind of amazing. A few guys have had very limited success. Otherwise, nothing. Strange. I don't disagree with you but I think it's because he was so unique. No assistant was going to be able to replicate what he was able to do - and he didn't surround himself with assistants who were young up and comers anyway. I was told by a college coach that Coach K's assistants struggled in their own jobs because so much of his success is based on his personality - or in the coach's words "none of them could be as big a prick as Coach K".
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joey0403p
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Post by joey0403p on Mar 28, 2017 9:52:46 GMT -5
The jt jr coaching tree is more a function of mike Reilly and Craig eshrick never leaving to go coach somewhere else, right?
It's odd - but it probably happens alot
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Mar 28, 2017 9:52:58 GMT -5
I don't think Georgetown factoring in the connection to the program as one of many factors considered in evaluating a prospective coaching candidate is any different than any college program. Look at North Carolina. Dean Smith to long time assistant Guthridge, to Matt Doherty(who had played under Smith and coached under Williams). Before Doherty was hired UNC reportedly reached out to George Karl, Larry Brown, and Eddie Fogler (all North Carolina alumni) who passed on the job. When Doherty was hired he received criticism for bringing his ND staff with him and firing assistants Phil Ford, Pat Sullivan (former UNC players). Matt Doherty was National Coach of the Year in Year 1 than Years 2 (8-20) and 3 (NIT) were disasters with numerous transfers, so UNC hired former alum and assistant Roy Williams. Georgetown doesn't have the coaching trees of Coach K and Dean Smith, but to say that connection to the program isn't a factor is naive in any college search. These aren't professional franchises. The utter lack of any coaching tree from Thompson Jr's 27 year career as a head coach is kind of amazing. A few guys have had very limited success. Otherwise, nothing. Strange. This should really be the issue for those that think a link to our traditions is important. Two generations of JTII, Esh, and III, and one arguably qualified candidate.
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Post by nychoya96 on Mar 28, 2017 9:55:56 GMT -5
No, they didn't look at Jordan and Worthy (I assume) but those guys didn't have 15 years of high level coaching experience. It's hard to think of a school engaged in a coaching search who had their programs best player in history also have that type of experience. I don't think Jordan and worthy are the comparisons.
And I think that we will are not giving enough deference to how well respected nba assistant coaches are. Forget about the Budenholzer and Atkinsons - you can make a pretty good list of assistants who were former players who are thriving as head coaches now : Walton, Lue, McMillan, etc.
That said, running a college program is different than coaching an NBa team and Ewing hasnt been given the jobs that those guys were. Maybe there is a good reason, maybe there isn't.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Mar 28, 2017 9:57:23 GMT -5
This is a fair point. I guess a better comparison would be the NC State hiring of Sidney Lowe. ....and that's another cautionary tale in hiring Patrick (and Lowe had even been a head coach in the NBA). Sidney Lowes also was given 5 season at NC State and never had a winning year in the ACC Overall Record 86–78 (.524) ACC Record 25–55 (.313) I would give Patrick Ewing a chance... I am concerned about how many years he would get to turn it around before the plug is pulled.
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friarj
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Post by friarj on Mar 28, 2017 10:02:55 GMT -5
Here is the article on Cooley and his interest or lack thereof. linkI would think that Richard Pitino would have to get an interview, no? While he is a PC graduate, his younger brother is a recent Georgetown graduate I believe. He is a BE guy and he's got the pedigree and some recent success. I look at it like when Donovan went from Marshall to Florida after being an assistant for RP at Kentucky, similiar to Richard at Louisville.
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caip
Member
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Post by caip on Mar 28, 2017 10:04:04 GMT -5
....and that's another cautionary tale in hiring Patrick (and Lowe had even been a head coach in the NBA). Sidney Lowes also was given 5 season at NC State and never had a winning year in the ACC Overall Record 86–78 (.524) ACC Record 25–55 (.313) I would give Patrick Ewing a chance... I am concerned about how many years he would get to turn it around before the plug is pulled. I just think it's too important a time and too important a job to give anybody a "chance". Any hire can fail but in my opinion Patrick is more of a leap of faith than this program can afford.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Mar 28, 2017 10:04:51 GMT -5
The utter lack of any coaching tree from Thompson Jr's 27 year career as a head coach is kind of amazing. A few guys have had very limited success. Otherwise, nothing. Strange. I don't disagree with you but I think it's because he was so unique. No assistant was going to be able to replicate what he was able to do - and he didn't surround himself with assistants who were young up and comers anyway. I was told by a college coach that Coach K's assistants struggled in their own jobs because so much of his success is based on his personality - or in the coach's words "none of them could be as big a prick as Coach K". I've often wondered that as well. I can't think of any Hall of Fame coach who has no legacy of assistants who became college or pro head coaches. I guess Bill Stein moved on to St. Peters? Anyone else?
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caip
Member
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Post by caip on Mar 28, 2017 10:08:25 GMT -5
Here is the article on Cooley and his interest or lack thereof. linkI would think that Richard Pitino would have to get an interview, no? While he is a PC graduate, his younger brother is a recent Georgetown graduate I believe. He is a BE guy and he's got the pedigree and some recent success. I look at it like when Donovan went from Marshall to Florida after being an assistant for RP at Kentucky, similiar to Richard at Louisville. i think he is (was) a candidate
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Cambridge
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Canes Pugnaces
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 28, 2017 10:11:13 GMT -5
It's not like UNC was interested in Michael Jordan or Bob McAdoo. I know we would all like to forget this but Doherty was hired by UNC starting in the 2000-2001 season. Only a few months later, Jordan ended up un-retiring for the second time and played for the Wizards from 2001-2003.
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