This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Apr 3, 2017 10:09:29 GMT -5
I got a general question: Can someone be racist and follow the Hoyas? The program does have pretty profound history. Wow! Of course they can. This sounds like the fools saying there's no more racism in America because we had a black president. In the case of the basketball program, you have a AA coach and 99.9% of players are AA. I guess if there is enough hatred in the heart a person can reconcile hating the players and rooting for the team at the same time.
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Post by practice on Apr 3, 2017 10:10:14 GMT -5
Just curious but would people feel differently if Ewing had landed the King's or the Grizzlies' head coach job last summer? I'd likely feel nothing, because he would more than likely not be interested in the GU job if he was currently a HC in the NBA.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Apr 3, 2017 10:13:25 GMT -5
I am willing to give Ewing a chance--providing he is chosen as the next head coach. I watched Ewing help to put Georgetown basketball program on the map in the 80's. He was valuable to the school back then, so in all fairness, he deserves a shot, just like Mullins got a shot with St. Johns. I can even understand the committee settling on Pat. How do you look pass a legendary player--potentially a great coach. Ewing would also perhaps allow for little or no disruption in terms of recruiting and coaching. Having said that, was Ewing my first choice? No. second or third? No. However, as I said before, if it is Patrick Ewing, I am willing to resign myself to it and continue to support the program.
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gunny
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by gunny on Apr 3, 2017 10:20:01 GMT -5
If Ewing is hired, I hope he would knock Mullin out cold if he tried to pull the same crap as he did this past season at the game at the Garden.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Apr 3, 2017 10:20:23 GMT -5
Sidenote from the crazy discussion that has erupted today: Waters is bound by his NLI to attend Georgetown this fall. The only way he can get out of it is if he is released from it by GU. There technically is no need to get him to re-commit. However most schools that fire the coaches give recruits the opportunity to be relased from their NLI. But some do not. Have not seen anywhere that he has been released from it yet. True that there is no confirmation that he has been released yet but his father has said that Georgetown won't fight him on it: www.espn.com/recruiting/basketball/story/_/id/18886342/four-star-point-guard-tremont-waters-requests-release-georgetown
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 3, 2017 10:20:48 GMT -5
Let's say for minute that racism is not binary - that there can be ideas, thoughts, beliefs and values that are based in ungrounded assessments about the differences between races and that those ideas, thoughts, and beliefs may be permanent and long-standing or they can be fleeting and temporary. That may be the difference between Racism and racism. I am not calling anyone on this board a Capital 'R' - Racist. I am saying that I've read some things on this thread that have made me uncomfortable which for me is a personal alert about the POSSIBILITY of little 'r' racism.
As a white, middle aged male, I try to reflect on my thoughts and actions and to observe myself. I point out to myself whenever I can when I notice I am having an idea, thought, or belief about races or sexes that could be based on an ungrounded assessment. Am I perfect? No, but I am committed to doing the best I can.
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TBird41
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"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 3, 2017 10:21:50 GMT -5
Just curious but would people feel differently if Ewing had landed the King's or the Grizzlies' head coach job last summer? Alternatively, if this was, say, JWall with the exact same resume as Patrick Ewing (ie 15 years as an NBA assistant, head of the NBAPA, etc.), would people feel differently? You'd still have the "program insider" problem, of course (which is a legitimate complaint), but how much of the other complaints are about his playing position and about the cultural perception of Ewing's intelligence? Ewing has always been seen and portrayed as the dumb lumbering big guy in our popular culture. How much of the concern about his coaching skills is based on that? It seems to me that Clifford wouldn't be keeping Ewing around as a favor, or because he's a big name.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Apr 3, 2017 10:23:32 GMT -5
http://instagram.com/p/BSbOphXgcKv The full court press is on to get Patrick this job. If we were waiting on a Frank Martin or Mike White that would be one thing. The fall out would not be worth it to for an Amaker or a Hurley.
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BigmanU
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Post by BigmanU on Apr 3, 2017 10:27:16 GMT -5
I also agree that on its face, it sure doesn't seems to make sense to replace JTIII with someone less qualified. But you can't really look at it this way. The program was broken and a needed a new direction. So comparing Ewing or anyone to JTIII is meaningless at this point. Here's the problem with Ewing and Amaker - the program STILL IS broken, and you're just putting a new face on it. I wouldn't call a program with 4 Final Four banners & 10 Sweet 16's in the last 37 years "Broken". It may not be what some prefer, but definitely not "Broken"
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by NCHoya on Apr 3, 2017 10:31:01 GMT -5
Just curious but would people feel differently if Ewing had landed the King's or the Grizzlies' head coach job last summer? I am not as negative of this hire as some, and I already believe Ewing has plenty of Xs and Os knowledge, so NBA HC experience would not mean much to me. I am most concerned with Ewing's ability to put together a college-specific staff, monitoring players since these are not pros, recruiting of course and just general management of the program within an academic, not a business setting. Being head coach in the NBA would only alleviate my concern of handling the media/PR stuff that HCs have to deal with. For me, that is a secondary concern. Honestly, one of my biggest concerns is Ewing being influenced by Jt Jr. With all of his NBA experience and Van Gundy mentorship, I am sure Ewing could bring some new ideas to the program. I just hope he is allowed to do it in his own way.
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Post by thejerseytornado on Apr 3, 2017 10:35:34 GMT -5
re: the thoughtful pros/cons post and recruiting. One of the interesting potentials is that because Ewing would come in as something of a clean slate (personally) with AAU coaches, he might be able to re-open doors that are otherwise largely closed.
No AAU or HS coach, NOT A SINGLE ONE, is going to be anything other than welcoming to Ewing. A lot of them will be, if anything, bending over backwards to get in good w/ a legend like Ewing (good photo-op for them) and/or a guy with the connections to powerful NBA people like he has between the Riley connection and the VG connection and the MJ friendship (same w/ recruits' parents). Will he take advantage of that effectively? Obviously to be determined, but the potential to be a powerhouse closer on the recruiting trail is there.
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guru
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Post by guru on Apr 3, 2017 10:36:31 GMT -5
If it's Ewing, I'm good with it, even as it makes the whole search committee/firm thing look like a silly charade.
Patrick Ewing is among my favorite athletes of all time. He has always been an amazingly hard worker - I have no doubt if he takes the job, he will put in the hours to learn how to do it. If he fails, it won't be from lack of effort. If he succeeds, it's an amazing final act for the duo responsible for the most glorious days in the program's history. It would be incredible.
That said, here's what really scares me. I spoke over the weekend to a high school coach who coached one of our best players of the last decade - happened to be at the same event with him, and coaching change talk eventually led to the Georgetown job. He has seen and heard first-hand from his former player the influence JT Jr. has on the program, and it is far more pervasive than I ever knew. Maybe others knew all this, I dunno. According to him, Big John doesn't just sit at practice and watch - he screams and directs the players constantly, often telling them contradictory things to what the head coach has just told them. It was not uncommon for JT Jr. to come to the locker room at halftime of games and scream at the team for so long that JT3 never even got to address them. The player's quote was "I don't know who to listen to."
This coach loves JT3. Loves him. But here's the part I found most fascinating: He thinks JT3 is the most relieved person in this whole situation, that the burden of coaching his dad's program, and the absurdity of the way it was/is being run, had worn him down. His take was that, even though he would never have asked for it, JT3 is not unhappy to be out.
The Ewing hire makes perfect sense in this context. JT Jr is not going anywhere. Any new head coach is going to have to deal with him pulling up his folding chair against the wall and shouting during every practice, offering input on strategy and matchups and bursting into the halftime locker room for a diatribe. With no head coaching experience, Patrick actually will NEED the over the top input from his old mentor. In fact, he, alone among any of the possible candidates mentioned, would welcome it, at least at the start.
Look, I've ranted and raved about the state of the program in recent years. Part of that was because I thought things could actually change - naively, I thought JT3 ran his own program. Make the change, bring in fresh blood, I thought, and the atmosphere will change, if not the results. Now I believe that was never, ever even a possibility.
So I am resigned to the notion that the future is very uncertain, and that the team and program are not likely to improve. But Patrick Ewing and John Thompson gave the older crowd among us joyful memories for an extended part of our lives, and if Ewing is hired I will get to root for them together, again. I'm going to try to be happy about that, and hope for the best.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 3, 2017 10:39:48 GMT -5
I got a general question: Can someone be racist and follow the Hoyas? The program does have pretty profound history. As long as you are being general - Racism is not limited to whites.
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bamahoya11
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Post by bamahoya11 on Apr 3, 2017 10:40:42 GMT -5
Just curious but would people feel differently if Ewing had landed the King's or the Grizzlies' head coach job last summer? Alternatively, if this was, say, JWall with the exact same resume as Patrick Ewing (ie 15 years as an NBA assistant, head of the NBAPA, etc.), would people feel differently? You'd still have the "program insider" problem, of course (which is a legitimate complaint), but how much of the other complaints are about his playing position and about the cultural perception of Ewing's intelligence? Ewing has always been seen and portrayed as the dumb lumbering big guy in our popular culture. How much of the concern about his coaching skills is based on that? It seems to me that Clifford wouldn't be keeping Ewing around as a favor, or because he's a big name. For what it's worth, I see Ewing's position as a positive. In theory, if we are going to go down this road, he at least has one clear strength -- a demonstrated ability to work with and develop elite level forwards and centers. His playing career as probably the best center to play the game only enhances that appeal. Whereas everyone else in the college game is targeted toward guards, I see Ewing in theory being able to go after all the top interior players in the college game. That makes more sense to me than hiring a guard to hire a guard. Also, though I think it has been seriously exaggerated, there is at least a chance that Ewing has been overlooked by the NBA, so we could have an underrated talent type situation. My stance on Ewing is not changed. At all. But I think his position at least equips him with a theoretical recruiting advantage that he can use. I could see him beating K or Calipari for a center based on his record, at least early on.
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BigmanU
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Post by BigmanU on Apr 3, 2017 10:42:00 GMT -5
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Apr 3, 2017 10:45:42 GMT -5
If it's Ewing, I'm good with it, even as it makes the whole search committee/firm thing look like a silly charade. Patrick Ewing is among my favorite athletes of all time. He has always been an amazingly hard worker - I have no doubt if he takes the job, he will put in the hours to learn how to do it. If he fails, it won't be from lack of effort. If he succeeds, it's an amazing final act for the duo responsible for the most glorious days in the program's history. It would be incredible. That said, here's what really scares me. I spoke over the weekend to a high school coach who coached one of our best players of the last decade - happened to be at the same event with him, and coaching change talk eventually led to the Georgetown job. He has seen and heard first-hand from his former player the influence JT Jr. has on the program, and it is far more pervasive than I ever knew. Maybe others knew all this, I dunno. According to him, Big John doesn't just sit at practice and watch - he screams and directs the players constantly, often telling them contradictory things to what the head coach has just told them. It was not uncommon for JT Jr. to come to the locker room at halftime of games and scream at the team for so long that JT3 never even got to address them. The player's quote was "I don't know who to listen to." This coach loves JT3. Loves him. But here's the part I found most fascinating: He thinks JT3 is the most relieved person in this whole situation, that the burden of coaching his dad's program, and the absurdity of the way it was/is being run, had worn him down. His take was that, even though he would never have asked for it, JT3 is not unhappy to be out. The Ewing hire makes perfect sense in this context. JT Jr is not going anywhere. Any new head coach is going to have to deal with him pulling up his folding chair against the wall and shouting during every practice, offering input on strategy and matchups and bursting into the halftime locker room for a diatribe. With no head coaching experience, Patrick actually will NEED the over the top input from his old mentor. In fact, he, alone among any of the possible candidates mentioned, would welcome it, at least at the start. Look, I've ranted and raved about the state of the program in recent years. Part of that was because I thought things could actually change - naively, I thought JT3 ran his own program. Make the change, bring in fresh blood, I thought, and the atmosphere will change, if not the results. Now I believe that was never, ever even a possibility. So I am resigned to the notion that the future is very uncertain, and that the team and program are not likely to improve. But Patrick Ewing and John Thompson gave the older crowd among us joyful memories for an extended part of our lives, and if Ewing is hired I will get to root for them together, again. I'm going to try to be happy about that, and hope for the best. JT2 was a brilliant defensive coach, and I would think he and Pat might be much more on the same page philosophically than with his sno, who came from a totally different place with Pete Carril. I believe both JT3 and the Hoyas are now free to thrive independently, and I will have no trouble cheering for both full throttle. You know, if the Hoyas actually do hire Ewing, which I will never believe until I hear it from the University.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 3, 2017 10:46:25 GMT -5
When we talk assistant coaches we must also talk compensation, rumors have always said Gtown was stingy when it came to paying asst coaches.. Is the administration willing to pony up now? They're not getting a Kenny Johnson or Strickland on the cheap.. I also hope Ewing or any prospective candidate is demanding money for a dedicated S&C team along with a full time nutritionist as well.. These things are long over due imho.. I don't want to break from the Thompson's but I do want a break from the stodgy ways this program has been run for a long time now.. Lets not be so sure asst coaches aren't getting paid well. JT2 and I would assume III like most programs have done for a very long time have directly supplemented incomes to some if not all assistants through a wide variety measures. As usual no one outside of the program knows much of anything but when Hunter left for Nebraska he received a salary of 230k per year.. Who believes Gtown is paying that much? A poster mentioned Karl Hobbs as a possible asst coach for Ewing.. Hobbs makes 300k @ Rutgers, who thinks any Gtown asst makes close to this right now?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 3, 2017 10:49:54 GMT -5
Wait - those are Hoya fans??😉
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Post by jld54 on Apr 3, 2017 10:54:12 GMT -5
A question to all those oppose Patrick Ewing:
If not him, who, as of April 3, 2017?
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by NCHoya on Apr 3, 2017 10:55:05 GMT -5
If it's Ewing, I'm good with it, even as it makes the whole search committee/firm thing look like a silly charade. That said, here's what really scares me. I spoke over the weekend to a high school coach who coached one of our best players of the last decade - happened to be at the same event with him, and coaching change talk eventually led to the Georgetown job. He has seen and heard first-hand from his former player the influence JT Jr. has on the program, and it is far more pervasive than I ever knew. Maybe others knew all this, I dunno. According to him, Big John doesn't just sit at practice and watch - he screams and directs the players constantly, often telling them contradictory things to what the head coach has just told them. It was not uncommon for JT Jr. to come to the locker room at halftime of games and scream at the team for so long that JT3 never even got to address them. The player's quote was "I don't know who to listen to." This coach loves JT3. Loves him. But here's the part I found most fascinating: He thinks JT3 is the most relieved person in this whole situation, that the burden of coaching his dad's program, and the absurdity of the way it was/is being run, had worn him down. His take was that, even though he would never have asked for it, JT3 is not unhappy to be out. The Ewing hire makes perfect sense in this context. JT Jr is not going anywhere. Any new head coach is going to have to deal with him pulling up his folding chair against the wall and shouting during every practice, offering input on strategy and matchups and bursting into the halftime locker room for a diatribe. With no head coaching experience, Patrick actually will NEED the over the top input from his old mentor. In fact, he, alone among any of the possible candidates mentioned, would welcome it, at least at the start. Well, you confirmed my fear in all of this, that Ewing would not be allowed to be his own man and coach. I am hoping Big John will feel a little less freedom to be critical/contradictory of Ewing versus his own son, but who really knows? Hey, maybe with Big John getting older he was less involved these last 4 years and that is why things started to unravel?
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