TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,442
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Post by TC on Mar 7, 2017 11:55:12 GMT -5
SVP should have mentioned it, you're right, but he's not going to shed any more light on it. That thing that you say he's not going to do is actually exactly what he and the media are supposed to do.
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by blueandgray on Mar 7, 2017 11:58:05 GMT -5
While I am not a fan of SVP....he nailed this one.
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adlai
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by adlai on Mar 7, 2017 12:03:49 GMT -5
Maybe Waters can work out with Dennis Smith Jr. (freshman NC State - 18.5 ppg, 4.5 ppg, 6.3 apg -- 15-16 record) and Markelle Fultz (23.2 ppg, 5.7 ppg, 5.9 apg -- 9-21 record) as they prepare to be two of the top five picks in the NBA draft later this year. A top ten (or top 2) PG does not make a bad team good. This is an inconvenient fact that some on this board continue to ignore. Waters should not be expected to fix all our problems. You have literally the #1 pick in the draft "leading" a 9-21 team. That is why losing Water with a III exit does not scare me. Whether it happens today or next year, this is a complete rebuild, the cupboard is empty. Exactly
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 7, 2017 12:36:51 GMT -5
SVP should have mentioned it, you're right, but he's not going to shed any more light on it. That thing that you say he's not going to do is actually exactly what he and the media are supposed to do. Except that Georgetown would never tell anyone - you know this. So maybe a "Georgetown declined to comment" would have helped?
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 7, 2017 12:38:04 GMT -5
I'm sure all of this is leading up to a fantastic 2018 recruiting class. Yes, that's sarcasm. Finishing off the 2017 recruiting has to be mentioned as well..
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 7, 2017 12:39:16 GMT -5
So because YOU don't care about these things they aren't national stories? You're a millennial, aren't you? With as much respect as I can muster, your continued denial that our demise is a national story is insane. No, I am not saying that I determine what is a national story or not. But if you think any of those headlines are big major stories, then I don't know what to tell you. I still think we are talking past one another and don't really disagree on much in this particular instance. And I agree that the university botched the press situation on Saturday by not letting JT3 comment. I think that if the administration and coach were more open with fans, there would be less consternation generally. And no, I am not a millennial. I graduated Georgetown in 2003 (and if you do the math, in my mid 30s), as my username indicates. I happily grew up without Facebook, Twitter, or Snapchat, do not take selfies, and don't need safe spaces.
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AltoSaxa
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Post by AltoSaxa on Mar 7, 2017 12:46:16 GMT -5
The "aloof" thing is plain dumb because JT3 has been glasnost to this program and a huge break in the way things were run for the entirety of the JT2 and Esherick years. From midnight madness, press conferences, making players available - he's been a gigantic step forward from JT2 and Esherick in opening things up and marketing things very differently. JT3 is no Belichick. People are jumping on the Mex Carey thing as if that's the way things have been run for the last 13 years. That's pretty much the opposite of how things have run, and I think the Mex Carey thing only happened because of what went down with Esherick and that one answer Esherick gave about his future providing all of the ammunition needed to fire him. I bet they are better prepped for the media at the BE tournament. SVP's segment was okay, but it boiled down to "two losing seasons = fire" but "JT2's name is on buildings so that's hard". Any analysis that doesn't look at the $ issue is pretty weak. Again, no one cares about the need to beat the drums of the long-ago past. Recent generations don't care about the sweater game. No one cares about JTIII's communication relative to his father. How his father handled the program is in the distant past. JTIII is viewed relative to today's coaches and, yes, he is aloof. Better than his father, yes; but who really cares. "Losses to inferior competition in early rounds of the tourney", "Lack of ability to adapt to rule changes", "Obstinence in recruiting patterns", "Transfers", "Father's name", "Trajectory of the program", "Two losing seasons" = Fire JTIII
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hoyarad
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by hoyarad on Mar 7, 2017 12:49:49 GMT -5
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Post by practice on Mar 7, 2017 13:18:21 GMT -5
The "aloof" thing is plain dumb because JT3 has been glasnost to this program and a huge break in the way things were run for the entirety of the JT2 and Esherick years. From midnight madness, press conferences, making players available - he's been a gigantic step forward from JT2 and Esherick in opening things up and marketing things very differently. JT3 is no Belichick. People are jumping on the Mex Carey thing as if that's the way things have been run for the last 13 years. That's pretty much the opposite of how things have run, and I think the Mex Carey thing only happened because of what went down with Esherick and that one answer Esherick gave about his future providing all of the ammunition needed to fire him. I bet they are better prepped for the media at the BE tournament. SVP's segment was okay, but it boiled down to "two losing seasons = fire" but "JT2's name is on buildings so that's hard". Any analysis that doesn't look at the $ issue is pretty weak. Again, no one cares about the need to beat the drums of the long-ago past. Recent generations don't care about the sweater game. No one cares about JTIII's communication relative to his father. How his father handled the program is in the distant past. JTIII is viewed relative to today's coaches and, yes, he is aloof. Better than his father, yes; but who really cares. "Losses to inferior competition in early rounds of the tourney", "Lack of ability to adapt to rule changes", "Obstinence in recruiting patterns", "Transfers", "Father's name", "Trajectory of the program", "Two losing seasons" = Fire JTIII More than aloof, JT2 was ornery. JT3 is aloof. JT3 is accessible to the press but he's cool, calm and detached. He can get a little animated on the sidelines, but he does not work referees over like many other coaches, including his father. His calmness probably cuts both ways with the team. During the good years, it was a strength ... calm during the storm ... now it's a perceived weakness ... deer in the headlights. Also, many care about JT3's current relationship with JT2 and, more importantly, JT2's current role/relationship with the team and the university. It's a big, big part of the ongoing drama.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Mar 7, 2017 13:19:31 GMT -5
Again, no one cares about the need to beat the drums of the long-ago past. Recent generations don't care about the sweater game. No one cares about JTIII's communication relative to his father. How his father handled the program is in the distant past. JTIII is viewed relative to today's coaches and, yes, he is aloof. Better than his father, yes; but who really cares. I pretty much agree with you. Millennial fans don't care about history and context, they feel they're entitled to a Sweet 16, and it's not a success if we don't get that, so if they get their way, we most likely go the way of DePaul or BC with head coaching churn without success. Here's a "G aloof" graphic, who cares if it's accurate depiction of media relations over the last 13 years, one guy didn't answer one question so it's a meme now.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Mar 7, 2017 13:23:42 GMT -5
That thing that you say he's not going to do is actually exactly what he and the media are supposed to do. Except that Georgetown would never tell anyone - you know this. So maybe a "Georgetown declined to comment" would have helped? Yes, asking those questions, which is pretty much the only value of sports journalism, probably would help.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Mar 7, 2017 13:33:38 GMT -5
Those are all meaningless tidbits though. I'd say this is more along the lines of the Ben Howland story at UCLA. Certainly JTIII isn't being accused of the same things Howland was, but in a macro sense, it's a story about a once proud basketball tradition who had success under the current coach but has fallen on relatively difficult times and is being exposed on a national level for things going on behind the the scenes. That was a big story and we even talked about it on this board. I'm not saying people all over the country are debating the Georgetown quandary but to continue to minimize the steam that it has gained as a national story is a bit silly. Obviously, the story has gained traction and gotten some attention from some national media outlets. And yes, it's getting more attention that it did last year, for example. My original point to guru was that while it might be getting attention, in the larger scheme of things it's just not that big a story. The Ben Howland story was a big story because of the scandal/malfeasance elements. Now, yes, the SVP video does call us out for the way JT3's questions were handled and I don't disagree with him there. It was stupid to make a story out of something that could've easily been handled in a better way. But, that's the competent Georgetown administration for you. I really think guru and I have been talking past one another. He and you say it's a national story, which I generally agree with in the sense that it's been in national media. Where I differ, is that even though it's in national media, I just don't think it's a big story that all that many people care about. But, we can agree to disagree. Three of my friends who are not college basketball fans but are sports fans have commented to me about JT3 in the last week. Whether they care or not the coverage is so full blown now that it was enough for them to notice and pay attention.
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Post by whatrocks33 on Mar 7, 2017 13:34:18 GMT -5
SVP is not a Hoya fan but I do believe he wants us to be good. When both programs had stubborn coaches who wouldn't give an inch, he used whatever influence he has to make the GU-UMCP game a reality in he Gavitt Tip-Off. He hosted his show from their arena following last year's game, and the rivalry clearly means a lot to him.
He'd rather us be Georgetown than American or GW, it's more than just having a local on the schedule. He's not kicking us while we're down.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 7, 2017 13:41:55 GMT -5
Except that Georgetown would never tell anyone - you know this. So maybe a "Georgetown declined to comment" would have helped? Yes, asking those questions, which is pretty much the only value of sports journalism, probably would help. Spare us the lectures on journalism. The bottom line is the story would have been exactly the same - maybe he would have quoted from the blanket press release that Georgetown has been using for the past 2 weeks whenever anyone asks. Glasnost, my ass.
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Post by jld54 on Mar 7, 2017 14:57:32 GMT -5
Things are not good in the program by any means, but long-standing alum and fans will recall the media hatred of GU. The Kerry Kirkpatrick hit-piece in SI during the 1984 championship run, SU alum and supporters bashing us, Len Berman actively rooting for SU in the BET final broadcast in 1984, etc. The media hated JT2 because he did not allow unfettered media access and tried to make him pay. Now we are seeing GU bashing 2.0. ESPN has no love lost for us after we bolted for Fox, and Van Pelt is a Maryland fan, who after "full disclosure", piles on. And Goodman citing" unnamed sources" is a reminder of low the media has descended recently. Also, this Goodman "unnamed sources" stuff is garbage. Who knows if an "unnamed" source really fears "retribution" from JT2, or is a guy who did not succeed, did not like his PT, or just did not like GU. All of the latter happens in any program. Was such source a guy who transferred, did not meet academic standards, underperformed, etc.? We can think of who such players might be. Or is it a truly good guy? We do not know, do we, because these people are "unnamed"! And this nonsense of the poor snowflake who sat behind the guy who built the program from scratch, screamed that his son should be fired and then claims that "others" told him that Tyler came over to him to shut him up in sheer nonsense. This student is an attention seeker who got his 15 minutes of fame -- just check out his hysterical Twitter feed. We have enough of a problem on our hands without piling on from the media. And anyone who thinks that this will influence the Admin is sorely mistaken. They did not fold when the media conducted its anti-JT2 campaign decades ago, nor will they now. We have to solve this problem ourselves and this media grandstanding is useless. ----------------------------------- How are we solving the problem right now? Seems to me we are happy with the status quo. Just be quiet. We are doing it "the Georgetown way". We have a plan. You don't have to know about it. Remember the 80s? Oh wait, you don't. You don't understand our history. Just sit down and be quiet. u The comment that we have to solve this ourselves means that this is matter that the Georgetown Administation must deal with. I am not in any way minimizes the poor position to which the program has deteriorated nor blindly supporting the status quo. But we do not need a MD grad on a failing network that no longer carries the the Big East to pile on, as this will not help.
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beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,473
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Post by beenaround on Mar 7, 2017 17:52:41 GMT -5
You say that ESPN "piling on".."will not help.". Of course it won't. The real problem is that NOTHING will help. Some famous guy wrote that "marriage is the death of hope."..I'm thinking we can add Hoya fandom to that phrase.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 7, 2017 19:38:00 GMT -5
You say that ESPN "piling on".."will not help.". Of course it won't. The real problem is that NOTHING will help. Some famous guy wrote that "marriage is the death of hope."..I'm thinking we can add Hoya fandom to that phrase. This is why it's important for there to be a statement about the program either way once our season is done. That's all that's going to quiet it. Either the university sticks with JT3 and he needs to hit the recruiting trail hard or there's a change. I think it's likely the former. If so then the university should say so and everybody needs to move on. Once such a statement is made this is no longer a story - at least until next season.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Mar 7, 2017 19:56:58 GMT -5
"Once such a statement is made this is no longer a story - at least until next season."
Want to bet?
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IDenj
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,526
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Post by IDenj on Mar 7, 2017 20:29:14 GMT -5
Things are not good in the program by any means, but long-standing alum and fans will recall the media hatred of GU. The Kerry Kirkpatrick hit-piece in SI during the 1984 championship run, SU alum and supporters bashing us, Len Berman actively rooting for SU in the BET final broadcast in 1984, etc. The media hated JT2 because he did not allow unfettered media access and tried to make him pay. Now we are seeing GU bashing 2.0. ESPN has no love lost for us after we bolted for Fox, and Van Pelt is a Maryland fan, who after "full disclosure", piles on. And Goodman citing" unnamed sources" is a reminder of low the media has descended recently. Also, this Goodman "unnamed sources" stuff is garbage. Who knows if an "unnamed" source really fears "retribution" from JT2, or is a guy who did not succeed, did not like his PT, or just did not like GU. All of the latter happens in any program. Was such source a guy who transferred, did not meet academic standards, underperformed, etc.? We can think of who such players might be. Or is it a truly good guy? We do not know, do we, because these people are "unnamed"! And this nonsense of the poor snowflake who sat behind the guy who built the program from scratch, screamed that his son should be fired and then claims that "others" told him that Tyler came over to him to shut him up in sheer nonsense. This student is an attention seeker who got his 15 minutes of fame -- just check out his hysterical Twitter feed. We have enough of a problem on our hands without piling on from the media. And anyone who thinks that this will influence the Admin is sorely mistaken. They did not fold when the media conducted its anti-JT2 campaign decades ago, nor will they now. We have to solve this problem ourselves and this media grandstanding is useless. I read this thinking holy smokes, you're talking about Trump and his WH gang.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 7, 2017 22:16:10 GMT -5
"Once such a statement is made this is no longer a story - at least until next season." Want to bet? In news media? Yes. I don't expect the fan base who wants to get rid of JT3 to stop, since they've been constantly beating the drum for a long time already. In my opinion, once a decision is made, the fan base needs to try to come together and support the team. If JT3 is retained another year, whining, complaining, and making the same tired arguments isn't going to help anybody.
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