hoyarad
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 521
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Post by hoyarad on Mar 7, 2017 10:12:54 GMT -5
A Maryland fan at ESPN has negative stuff to say about the Hoyas? Why in the world would a single true Hoya give a flying youknowwhat? The level of self-loathing around here is embarrassing. If just one person on this board had learned anything from the years of Pops and III, it is that you have to keep your head up and persevere. Win or lose on the court, the real struggles are off the court and we continue to raise up stellar young men. HOYASAXA! Have you seen the post-game press conferences? JT3 is not holding his head up. He looks lost and like he wants to go back to the locker room as quickly as the SID will intervene. That behavior is embarrassing. JT3 should, as you say, toughen up. Self-loathing? Agree to disagree. As an educator of young men, JT3 should be setting the example. Not ducking the hard questions brought on by his own body of work.
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Post by practice on Mar 7, 2017 10:17:23 GMT -5
This will drag on until the University makes some sort of formal announcement regarding the head coach position. If there is going to be a change, I hope it is announced immediately following the team's last game, whenever that might be. If JT3 is going to be retained, likewise it would be helpful if President DeGioa made that announcement immediately. Leaving the question hanging is just going to generate more negative press, alienate alumni and students on both sides of the question, hurt recruiting and retention, and hold current coaching staff hostage to uncertainty. For the record, I'm more than likely going to cancel my season tickets after 21 or 22 year if it appear that the university is unwilling to make a dramatic change ... and I cannot imagine what short of a new head coach would be dramatic enough for me. Indeed, as stated before, if there is a coaching change and it is merely a shuffling of the deck chairs, i.e. some other Thompson regime head coach, or selecting some conventional and uninspiring candidate, then I'd likely still cancel my tickets. Good plan - who would want to see what our guys can do with a Top 10 PG recruit to lead them. Maybe Waters can work out with Dennis Smith Jr. (freshman NC State - 18.5 ppg, 4.5 ppg, 6.3 apg -- 15-16 record) and Markelle Fultz (23.2 ppg, 5.7 ppg, 5.9 apg -- 9-21 record) as they prepare to be two of the top five picks in the NBA draft later this year. A top ten (or top 2) PG does not make a bad team good.
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hoyarad
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 521
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Post by hoyarad on Mar 7, 2017 10:20:56 GMT -5
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,267
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Post by prhoya on Mar 7, 2017 10:29:02 GMT -5
And this nonsense of the poor snowflake who sat behind the guy who built the program from scratch, screamed that his son should be fired and then claims that "others" told him that Tyler came over to him to shut him up in sheer nonsense. This student is an attention seeker who got his 15 minutes of fame -- just check out his hysterical Twitter feed. That's not the kid's version. Go back to casual and check his article. We have enough of a problem on our hands without piling on from the media. And anyone who thinks that this will influence the Admin is sorely mistaken. They did not fold when the media conducted its anti-JT2 campaign decades ago, nor will they now. Big difference between now and then. If you cannot see that, then that's your prerogative.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 7, 2017 10:31:49 GMT -5
Only a small sphere of people are even interested, right? Correct. I still maintain that not many people care. I mean, look at the major headlines on ESPN.com's basketball page: - "Georgia denies report of replacing coach Fox" - Don't care. - "Iona clips Siena for MAAC title, NCAA berth" - Don't care. - "Jayhawks remain No. 1 for 2nd straigth week." I don't really care, but at least this is news of some interest. - Mizzou's Anderson: 'Didn't win enough games' - Don't care. I would also note it's a statement of the obvious. - Duke recruit Carter named boys' hoops POY. - Don't care. - Duke's Allen elbows UNC's Robinson, get's T'd. I actually have a friend who follows Duke, and I find Allen annoying, so I care about this a little. But it's not a national sports story either.
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hoya95
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,445
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Post by hoya95 on Mar 7, 2017 10:42:14 GMT -5
Since other coaches handle losing so well.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Mar 7, 2017 10:44:42 GMT -5
Good plan - who would want to see what our guys can do with a Top 10 PG recruit to lead them. Maybe Waters can work out with Dennis Smith Jr. (freshman NC State - 18.5 ppg, 4.5 ppg, 6.3 apg -- 15-16 record) and Markelle Fultz (23.2 ppg, 5.7 ppg, 5.9 apg -- 9-21 record) as they prepare to be two of the top five picks in the NBA draft later this year. A top ten (or top 2) PG does not make a bad team good. Also you can see that this team has more issues than at the PG position. The Center and Power Forward positions need to be an open competition along with the Small Forward and possibly the Shooting Guard position if Peak does not come back. In the front court you have several players that disappear at times to score and disappear at times of gathering rebounds. It is unwise to think that one player is going to fix these issues.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 7, 2017 10:50:34 GMT -5
Only a small sphere of people are even interested, right? Correct. I still maintain that not many people care. I mean, look at the major headlines on ESPN.com's basketball page: - "Georgia denies report of replacing coach Fox" - Don't care. - "Iona clips Siena for MAAC title, NCAA berth" - Don't care. - "Jayhawks remain No. 1 for 2nd straigth week." I don't really care, but at least this is news of some interest. - Mizzou's Anderson: 'Didn't win enough games' - Don't care. I would also note it's a statement of the obvious. - Duke recruit Carter named boys' hoops POY. - Don't care. - Duke's Allen elbows UNC's Robinson, get's T'd. I actually have a friend who follows Duke, and I find Allen annoying, so I care about this a little. But it's not a national sports story either. Those are all meaningless tidbits though. I'd say this is more along the lines of the Ben Howland story at UCLA. Certainly JTIII isn't being accused of the same things Howland was, but in a macro sense, it's a story about a once proud basketball tradition who had success under the current coach but has fallen on relatively difficult times and is being exposed on a national level for things going on behind the the scenes. That was a big story and we even talked about it on this board. I'm not saying people all over the country are debating the Georgetown quandary but to continue to minimize the steam that it has gained as a national story is a bit silly.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,267
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Post by prhoya on Mar 7, 2017 10:51:36 GMT -5
Since other coaches handle losing so well. Fun, but that would be JT3's Esh 30-year moment. He's too smart for that.
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 7, 2017 10:54:04 GMT -5
Good plan - who would want to see what our guys can do with a Top 10 PG recruit to lead them. Maybe Waters can work out with Dennis Smith Jr. (freshman NC State - 18.5 ppg, 4.5 ppg, 6.3 apg -- 15-16 record) and Markelle Fultz (23.2 ppg, 5.7 ppg, 5.9 apg -- 9-21 record) as they prepare to be two of the top five picks in the NBA draft later this year. A top ten (or top 2) PG does not make a bad team good. This is an inconvenient fact that some on this board continue to ignore. Waters should not be expected to fix all our problems. You have literally the #1 pick in the draft "leading" a 9-21 team. That is why losing Water with a III exit does not scare me. Whether it happens today or next year, this is a complete rebuild, the cupboard is empty.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 7, 2017 10:56:44 GMT -5
Those are all meaningless tidbits though. I'd say this is more along the lines of the Ben Howland story at UCLA. Certainly JTIII isn't being accused of the same things Howland was, but in a macro sense, it's a story about a once proud basketball tradition who had success under the current coach but has fallen on relatively difficult times and is being exposed on a national level for things going on behind the the scenes. That was a big story and we even talked about it on this board. I'm not saying people all over the country are debating the Georgetown quandary but to continue to minimize the steam that it has gained as a national story is a bit silly. Obviously, the story has gained traction and gotten some attention from some national media outlets. And yes, it's getting more attention that it did last year, for example. My original point to guru was that while it might be getting attention, in the larger scheme of things it's just not that big a story. The Ben Howland story was a big story because of the scandal/malfeasance elements. Now, yes, the SVP video does call us out for the way JT3's questions were handled and I don't disagree with him there. It was stupid to make a story out of something that could've easily been handled in a better way. But, that's the competent Georgetown administration for you. I really think guru and I have been talking past one another. He and you say it's a national story, which I generally agree with in the sense that it's been in national media. Where I differ, is that even though it's in national media, I just don't think it's a big story that all that many people care about. But, we can agree to disagree.
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AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,125
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Post by AltoSaxa on Mar 7, 2017 11:01:54 GMT -5
We have enough of a problem on our hands without piling on from the media. And anyone who thinks that this will influence the Admin is sorely mistaken. They did not fold when the media conducted its anti-JT2 campaign decades ago, nor will they now. We have to solve this problem ourselves and this media grandstanding is useless. [/quote]
And just who created the problem?
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bamahoya11
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,831
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Post by bamahoya11 on Mar 7, 2017 11:12:55 GMT -5
Maybe Waters can work out with Dennis Smith Jr. (freshman NC State - 18.5 ppg, 4.5 ppg, 6.3 apg -- 15-16 record) and Markelle Fultz (23.2 ppg, 5.7 ppg, 5.9 apg -- 9-21 record) as they prepare to be two of the top five picks in the NBA draft later this year. A top ten (or top 2) PG does not make a bad team good. Also you can see that this team has more issues than at the PG position. The Center and Power Forward positions need to be an open competition along with the Small Forward and possibly the Shooting Guard position if Peak does not come back. In the front court you have several players that disappear at times to score and disappear at times of gathering rebounds. It is unwise to think that one player is going to fix these issues. I wrote about this in the 2017-18 outlook thread last night, but this is exactly right. Assuming everyone returns, we will have exactly one returning player (Peak) who had established himself as a capable starter in the BE. We will pair him with Waters because we brought him in for exactly this role. The remaining three starting spots are completely up for grabs. To have a successful tournament campaign in 2018, we will need: a grad transfer to replace Rodney, Waters to develop as hoped, and improvement from Govan and Derrickson. We would also need a system that better plays to these players' strengths. And then, of course, we need a successful campaign to give us a recruiting spark so that we can get back on a normal track instead of patching a team together one year at a time. It will take a lot of things to go our way for that to happen.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Mar 7, 2017 11:20:05 GMT -5
Also you can see that this team has more issues than at the PG position. The Center and Power Forward positions need to be an open competition along with the Small Forward and possibly the Shooting Guard position if Peak does not come back. In the front court you have several players that disappear at times to score and disappear at times of gathering rebounds. It is unwise to think that one player is going to fix these issues. I wrote about this in the 2017-18 outlook thread last night, but this is exactly right. Assuming everyone returns, we will have exactly one returning player (Peak) who had established himself as a capable starter in the BE. We will pair him with Waters because we brought him in for exactly this role. The remaining three starting spots are completely up for grabs. To have a successful tournament campaign in 2018, we will need: a grad transfer to replace Rodney, Waters to develop as hoped, and improvement from Govan and Derrickson. We would also need a system that better plays to these players' strengths. And then, of course, we need a successful campaign to give us a recruiting spark so that we can get back on a normal track instead of patching a team together one year at a time. It will take a lot of things to go our way for that to happen. What is your feelings on a grad transfer, do you see that as the wave in the future that the program needs to go or do you think the program may be better suited to fill holes via the traditional recruiting high school route?
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,505
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Post by bostonfan on Mar 7, 2017 11:26:42 GMT -5
The whole aloof comment is concerning. You can get away with giving the media next to nothing about your program and not actively promoting your program nationally when your winning, but when the perception is that your coach and school are arrogant and you start losing, things can get ugly fast. As a New England Patriots fan I can tell you first hand that Bill Belichick's act only flies up here in New England because he wins every year. The national press, and even the local Boston press, would run him out of town quickly if he starts losing for a few years. I am not saying the situations are the same with JTIII and Belichick but an aloof attitude rubs some people the wrong way and makes them take shots at you when times are tough.
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bamahoya11
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,831
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Post by bamahoya11 on Mar 7, 2017 11:36:36 GMT -5
I wrote about this in the 2017-18 outlook thread last night, but this is exactly right. Assuming everyone returns, we will have exactly one returning player (Peak) who had established himself as a capable starter in the BE. We will pair him with Waters because we brought him in for exactly this role. The remaining three starting spots are completely up for grabs. To have a successful tournament campaign in 2018, we will need: a grad transfer to replace Rodney, Waters to develop as hoped, and improvement from Govan and Derrickson. We would also need a system that better plays to these players' strengths. And then, of course, we need a successful campaign to give us a recruiting spark so that we can get back on a normal track instead of patching a team together one year at a time. It will take a lot of things to go our way for that to happen. What is your feelings on a grad transfer, do you see that as the wave in the future that the program needs to go or do you think the program may be better suited to fill holes via the traditional recruiting high school route? Personally, I think grad transfers should complement a strong existing roster and not build a critical component of one. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need grad transfers and would participate in the process only to build, say, a BE contender into a championship contender. And I would rather us get freshmen or early year transfers who could grow in our system. That's even more important if you want to run a complex system like JTIII runs. But I literally don't see how we build an NCAA team next year without a grad transfer. As I said, we literally have to fill three starting spots (if Peak returns) and there is no existing player even in position to vie for Rodney's spot if we have any chance of going over .500 in BE play. With most of the top recruits for next year gone, I think we need a transfer (or two) and then focus our recruiting on the 2019 class. The only road to success I see with JTIII is getting a transfer, having that team develop and win, and then using that good year to replenish our recruiting stock. Then, we could have success again on a sustained basis.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Mar 7, 2017 11:39:02 GMT -5
The "aloof" thing is plain dumb because JT3 has been glasnost to this program and a huge break in the way things were run for the entirety of the JT2 and Esherick years. From midnight madness, press conferences, making players available - he's been a gigantic step forward from JT2 and Esherick in opening things up and marketing things very differently. JT3 is no Belichick. People are jumping on the Mex Carey thing as if that's the way things have been run for the last 13 years. That's pretty much the opposite of how things have run, and I think the Mex Carey thing only happened because of what went down with Esherick and that one answer Esherick gave about his future providing all of the ammunition needed to fire him. I bet they are better prepped for the media at the BE tournament.
SVP's segment was okay, but it boiled down to "two losing seasons = fire" but "JT2's name is on buildings so that's hard". Any analysis that doesn't look at the $ issue is pretty weak.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by guru on Mar 7, 2017 11:40:01 GMT -5
Only a small sphere of people are even interested, right? Correct. I still maintain that not many people care. I mean, look at the major headlines on ESPN.com's basketball page: - "Georgia denies report of replacing coach Fox" - Don't care. - "Iona clips Siena for MAAC title, NCAA berth" - Don't care. - "Jayhawks remain No. 1 for 2nd straigth week." I don't really care, but at least this is news of some interest. - Mizzou's Anderson: 'Didn't win enough games' - Don't care. I would also note it's a statement of the obvious. - Duke recruit Carter named boys' hoops POY. - Don't care. - Duke's Allen elbows UNC's Robinson, get's T'd. I actually have a friend who follows Duke, and I find Allen annoying, so I care about this a little. But it's not a national sports story either. So because YOU don't care about these things they aren't national stories? You're a millennial, aren't you? With as much respect as I can muster, your continued denial that our demise is a national story is insane.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by guru on Mar 7, 2017 11:42:57 GMT -5
The "aloof" thing is plain dumb because JT3 has been glasnost to this program and a huge break in the way things were run for the entirety of the JT2 and Esherick years. From midnight madness, press conferences, making players available - he's been a gigantic step forward from JT2 and Esherick in opening things up and marketing things very differently. JT3 is no Belichick. People are jumping on the Mex Carey thing as if that's the way things have been run for the last 13 years. That's pretty much the opposite of how things have run, and I think the Mex Carey thing only happened because of what went down with Esherick and that one answer he gave about his future providing all of the ammunition needed to fire him. I bet they are better prepped for the media at the BE tournament. SVP's segment was okay, but it boiled down to "two losing seasons = fire" but "JT2's name is on buildings so that's hard". Any analysis that doesn't look at the $ issue is pretty weak. Does anyone actually know what the $ issue is? Besides that we all assume he has a few years left on his deal. SVP should have mentioned it, you're right, but he's not going to shed any more light on it. And I think people assume when you fire a coach you eat the money. Or most of it.
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Post by augustusfinknottle on Mar 7, 2017 11:53:28 GMT -5
I never get the purpose of the background percussion in these things. It's rather annoying. Just talk to me.
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