Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Feb 27, 2017 6:21:09 GMT -5
It's a noon game - the number of people who will actually be in the building in time for the pre-game senior day festivities is minimal. The seniors will have their moment in front of a smattering of friends, families, diehards, and people who got lucky finding parking. As for gametime: the place will be overrun with Nova fans, and many of the Hoya fans there will only be there to express their frustration with the coach and the state of the program. It's going to be sad as hell. And it's the first day of spring break, right? So the student section will be a joke. I'll be there, but I won't enjoy myself much. As much as people might dislike JT3, I think the primary purpose of attending the game should be to support the team, support the seniors, and in the event that we keep the game close enough to win, to vocally support the team and try to give them an effective home court advantage. If people want to chant "Fire Thompson" nobody will stop them, and people can do whatever they want, but I think, during a game when you have players playing for a coach, and you vocally advocate for his dismissal that's not supporting the team on the floor. The Hoyas are at the point the NY Giants were about 40 years ago. Serious change is needed and the "ownership" need to know. A small plane flew over Giants Stadium with a sign that said "15 years of lousy football, we've had enough". That message was received. George Young was hired and titles followed. It will be uncomfortable on Saturday and it damn well needs to be. The Administration needs to know that people are fed up. President DeGioia, a good and decent leader for our University, needs to squirm in his seat as the fans call for III's job. He needs to never want to feel that way again and act accordingly.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 27, 2017 7:13:11 GMT -5
It's a noon game - the number of people who will actually be in the building in time for the pre-game senior day festivities is minimal. The seniors will have their moment in front of a smattering of friends, families, diehards, and people who got lucky finding parking. As for gametime: the place will be overrun with Nova fans, and many of the Hoya fans there will only be there to express their frustration with the coach and the state of the program. It's going to be sad as hell. And it's the first day of spring break, right? So the student section will be a joke. I'll be there, but I won't enjoy myself much. As much as people might dislike JT3, I think the primary purpose of attending the game should be to support the team, support the seniors, and in the event that we keep the game close enough to win, to vocally support the team and try to give them an effective home court advantage. If people want to chant "Fire Thompson" nobody will stop them, and people can do whatever they want, but I think, during a game when you have players playing for a coach, and you vocally advocate for his dismissal that's not supporting the team on the floor. 2003, how do you propose the fans/students/alums express that they "are fed up" (like Elvado put it)?
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Feb 27, 2017 7:54:12 GMT -5
It's a noon game - the number of people who will actually be in the building in time for the pre-game senior day festivities is minimal. The seniors will have their moment in front of a smattering of friends, families, diehards, and people who got lucky finding parking. As for gametime: the place will be overrun with Nova fans, and many of the Hoya fans there will only be there to express their frustration with the coach and the state of the program. It's going to be sad as hell. And it's the first day of spring break, right? So the student section will be a joke. I'll be there, but I won't enjoy myself much. As much as people might dislike JT3, I think the primary purpose of attending the game should be to support the team, support the seniors, and in the event that we keep the game close enough to win, to vocally support the team and try to give them an effective home court advantage. If people want to chant "Fire Thompson" nobody will stop them, and people can do whatever they want, but I think, during a game when you have players playing for a coach, and you vocally advocate for his dismissal that's not supporting the team on the floor. As someone who is now firmly in the JT III must go camp I agree with 2003 completely. Fans support the kids on the floor and if I could, I would be there yelling hard for Reggie, Brad, and Pryor and thanking them for their efforts on behalf of the team. If people want/need to vent and make it clear to the Administration that a coaching change is necessary, I have no problem with that too, but it should not take away from the moment for these kids. Make it clear to the Administration through signs, petitions, even chants after the game, but when the whistle is blown cheer louder than the Nova fans and show these kids the respect they have earned. Reggie and Hayes have endured a lot through 4-5 years. Neither developed as hoped, though I think that Reggie took too much blame for his play and never liked the incredibly short leash he was given by the coach. Yet, neither transferred. Each remained far more committed to the school, the program and even the coach than some of JT III's desperation recruits who were given major minutes, such as J. Smith and Whittington. This coach has run his course here and absolutely needs to go, but that is not the fault of these kids or their families who gave a significant portion of their lives to the school and the program.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 27, 2017 8:02:01 GMT -5
As much as people might dislike JT3, I think the primary purpose of attending the game should be to support the team, support the seniors, and in the event that we keep the game close enough to win, to vocally support the team and try to give them an effective home court advantage. If people want to chant "Fire Thompson" nobody will stop them, and people can do whatever they want, but I think, during a game when you have players playing for a coach, and you vocally advocate for his dismissal that's not supporting the team on the floor. 2003, how do you propose the fans/students/alums express that they "are fed up" (like Elvado put it)? For this game you have cheer until the game gets out of hand. The number one goal should be to send Brad, Reggie and Rodney off with a home W. Once the game is officially over then do whatever you want to do. But calling for 3's job down 5pts in the 1st half on Senior Day shouldn't happen no matter how fed up you are......IMO.....
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 27, 2017 8:18:25 GMT -5
It will be uncomfortable on Saturday and it damn well needs to be. The Administration needs to know that people are fed up. President DeGioia, a good and decent leader for our University, needs to squirm in his seat as the fans call for III's job. He needs to never want to feel that way again and act accordingly. That's the wrong approach. People should not be humiliated in public for grievances. Cutting the budget sends a more direct message than a sign in the 200 level. With all the attorneys on this board, I am surprised that the obvious escapes the conversation--today's coaches are not employees at-will. With long term contracts come long term commitments...lots of them. See the web site tomorrow for details.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Feb 27, 2017 8:25:45 GMT -5
It will be uncomfortable on Saturday and it damn well needs to be. The Administration needs to know that people are fed up. President DeGioia, a good and decent leader for our University, needs to squirm in his seat as the fans call for III's job. He needs to never want to feel that way again and act accordingly. That's the wrong approach. People should not be humiliated in public for grievances. Cutting the budget sends a more direct message than a sign in the 200 level. With all the attorneys on this board, I am surprised that the obvious escapes the conversation--today's coaches are not employees at-will. With long term contracts come long term commitments...lots of them. See the web site tomorrow for details. I am acutely aware of the financial hit. Cost benefit analysis in my mind says he has to go. I always leave open the possibility, if not probability, that I am wrong, but enough is enough here.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 27, 2017 8:30:30 GMT -5
I am acutely aware of the financial hit. Cost benefit analysis in my mind says he has to go. I always leave open the possibility, if not probability, that I am wrong, but enough is enough here. Georgetown can't write that check. This isn't Craig Esherick making $249K a year.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 27, 2017 8:34:01 GMT -5
It will be uncomfortable on Saturday and it damn well needs to be. The Administration needs to know that people are fed up. President DeGioia, a good and decent leader for our University, needs to squirm in his seat as the fans call for III's job. He needs to never want to feel that way again and act accordingly. That's the wrong approach. People should not be humiliated in public for grievances. Cutting the budget sends a more direct message than a sign in the 200 level. With all the attorneys on this board, I am surprised that the obvious escapes the conversation--today's coaches are not employees at-will. With long term contracts come long term commitments...lots of them. See the web site tomorrow for details. I don't think that when people say that III should be "fired" they are using it in the legal sense of "termination for cause" under his contract, since none exists. (Cf. Mike Longergan's firing from GW "for cause" which I believe is now in litigation) I think most people mean that he should lose his position by Jack DeGioia thanking him for his service and paying the remainder of his contract or negotiating a buyout based upon an agreed upon resignation, neither of which seems likely in my opinion. We are not like Notre Dame football and flush with cash which allows it to burn through coaches and their contracts as it sees fit when the football coach does not meet expectations. www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/fired-george-washington-coachs-lawyers-fire-back-by-claiming-wrongful-termination/
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 27, 2017 9:05:09 GMT -5
As much as people might dislike JT3, I think the primary purpose of attending the game should be to support the team, support the seniors, and in the event that we keep the game close enough to win, to vocally support the team and try to give them an effective home court advantage. If people want to chant "Fire Thompson" nobody will stop them, and people can do whatever they want, but I think, during a game when you have players playing for a coach, and you vocally advocate for his dismissal that's not supporting the team on the floor. As someone who is now firmly in the JT III must go camp I agree with 2003 completely. Fans support the kids on the floor and if I could, I would be there yelling hard for Reggie, Brad, and Pryor and thanking them for their efforts on behalf of the team. If people want/need to vent and make it clear to the Administration that a coaching change is necessary, I have no problem with that too, but it should not take away from the moment for these kids. Make it clear to the Administration through signs, petitions, even chants after the game, but when the whistle is blown cheer louder than the Nova fans and show these kids the respect they have earned. Reggie and Hayes have endured a lot through 4-5 years. Neither developed as hoped, though I think that Reggie took too much blame for his play and never liked the incredibly short leash he was given by the coach. Yet, neither transferred. Each remained far more committed to the school, the program and even the coach than some of JT III's desperation recruits who were given major minutes, such as J. Smith and Whittington. This coach has run his course here and absolutely needs to go, but that is not the fault of these kids or their families who gave a significant portion of their lives to the school and the program. Perfectly said. Although late to the party, I certainly agree at this point that there isno reason to expect any significant improvement in the near future, so we need a new coach and a new direction. But venting frustrations by trying to embarrass the coach and the administration on national TV - on a day meant to honor the seniors, who have given their time and effort for years to the school, and also the families who have supported them, shows an incredible lack of class at a college basketball game (yes it is also big business, but these are still kids in school, who will undoubtedly feel some of the embarrassment as well since it has been a combination of their poor play, together with the poor coaching/recruiting, that sunk us to this point). And one more point (IMO of course); while certainly any person has the right to advocate for, encourage, or participate in chants or signs - if you do, I do not want to hear or read how you feel JTIII "is still a good man". You don't embarrass a good man in public, and certainly not on national TV.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 27, 2017 9:55:54 GMT -5
Delgado is going to get another beastly double double and I don't see us pulling it off based off our recent play.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Feb 27, 2017 10:15:01 GMT -5
My recommendation to those who cannot help themselves would be to just stay home. Empty seats on national TV speaks volumes and saves the players from having to endure the frustrated words being thrown at the coach.
At this point, the players know where the boos and jeering are being directed. I do not advocate it on senior day, during a close game, but if the kids cared about JT3, maybe they should have avoided losing to Depaul and SJU. Talent alone should have won those games and 22 turnovers is a joke. Think of how many collegiate and pro teams rally around their besieged coach and play inspired for at least a game or two, did anyone see that in MSG? I find that interesting.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 27, 2017 10:19:42 GMT -5
But venting frustrations by trying to embarrass the coach and the administration on national TV - on a day meant to honor the seniors, who have given their time and effort for years to the school, and also the families who have supported them, shows an incredible lack of class at a college basketball game (yes it is also big business, but these are still kids in school, who will undoubtedly feel some of the embarrassment as well since it has been a combination of their poor play, together with the poor coaching/recruiting, that sunk us to this point). And one more point (IMO of course); while certainly any person has the right to advocate for, encourage, or participate in chants or signs - if you do, I do not want to hear or read how you feel JTIII "is still a good man". You don't embarrass a good man in public, and certainly not on national TV. I agree. Also, some of the biggest detractors of JT3 constantly criticize the damage to our "brand." I would argue that it's not helping our brand to embarrass our players and staff on national television. I mean, if you were a recruit watching the game on Saturday, would it make you want to come to Georgetown more if you saw that? Very doubtful. Again, I am in not trying to quell criticisms. I just don't think the game, particularly the beginning of the game when it hasn't even been played yet, is the time for it. I think it's easy to get so wrapped up in an emotional desire for us to win and for change, that it's easy to forget that even under the worst of circumstances, JT3 being dismissed would not be a positive thing for the university in a lot of ways. He's had success and resurrected a program that had largely been neglected in his father's last years and Esherick's disastrous turn as coach, he's universally regarded as good man who runs a clean program, and for better or worse, he has a strong connection to the university that goes back generations. I still think JT3 will get at least another year, and I firmly hope that if he does he turns it around and does something great with the team. I still think that is the overall best result for the university and the program. Obviously, however, we cannot continue to have seasons like this one into perpetuity.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 27, 2017 10:22:12 GMT -5
At this point, the players know where the boos and jeering are being directed. I do not advocate it on senior day, during a close game, but if the kids cared about JT3, maybe they should have avoided losing to Depaul and SJU. Talent alone should have won those games and 22 turnovers is a joke. Think of how many collegiate and pro teams rally around their besieged coach and play inspired for at least a game or two, did anyone see that in MSG? I find that interesting. Do you really think the kids looked like they weren't trying to win the DePaul or St. John's games? Against DePaul, we fought until the end and the players were extremely upset at losing. Against St. John's, we were down a significant margin before making a 17-0 run to get back in the game. If the guys weren't trying to win, the 17-0 run would've never happened and we would have lost by 20+.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 27, 2017 10:47:16 GMT -5
Mosley out for year with separated shoulder. Okay, why not give Tre Campbell some serious playing time and see if he can contribute. Also, why not sub Mourning for Derrickson and see what he can do the next two games? Win or lose we have to play Wednesday in the Garden so why not see if you can learn anything the next two games?
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Post by practice on Feb 27, 2017 10:52:00 GMT -5
At this point, the players know where the boos and jeering are being directed. I do not advocate it on senior day, during a close game, but if the kids cared about JT3, maybe they should have avoided losing to Depaul and SJU. Talent alone should have won those games and 22 turnovers is a joke. Think of how many collegiate and pro teams rally around their besieged coach and play inspired for at least a game or two, did anyone see that in MSG? I find that interesting. Do you really think the kids looked like they weren't trying to win the DePaul or St. John's games? Against DePaul, we fought until the end and the players were extremely upset at losing. Against St. John's, we were down a significant margin before making a 17-0 run to get back in the game. If the guys weren't trying to win, the 17-0 run would've never happened and we would have lost by 20+. I think that the team was disorganized, unfocused and without a plan of action. The players are not listening to the coaching staff. The play on the court is terrible ... at this point it's hard to say if it's coaching or the team's complete and total lack of focus/listening to the coaching. The last two games will long be remembered as a blight on the program. I will be in my seats on Saturday and cheering at the appropriate times and jeering at the appropriate times. To DFW's point about G-Town not being able to afford buying JT3 out ... first, the school should try to negotiate something equitable and fair ... second, the school should just bite the bullet and view it as a sunk cost and hire someone less experienced and far less expensive. Some hungry young coach will take the head coach position at Georgetown for a fraction of the current salary. I think if we can afford to pay JT3 $2.8 million then we can afford another $400 or $500K on top of that for the next few years ...
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 27, 2017 10:56:52 GMT -5
To DFW's point about G-Town not being able to afford buying JT3 out ... first, the school should try to negotiate something equitable and fair ... second, the school should just bite the bullet and view it as a sunk cost and hire someone less experienced and far less expensive. Some hungry young coach will take the head coach position at Georgetown for a fraction of the current salary. I think if we can afford to pay JT3 $2.8 million then we can afford another $400 or $500K on top of that for the next few years ... Do you seriously think we are going to attract someone even remotely good with a $400,000 salary? We are going to have trouble attracting someone good under the best of circumstances, but certainly not at $400,000 or $500,000. While I am generally supportive of retaining JT3 at the moment, if it was a choice between waiting a year or two and then hiring someone with a bigger budget, or hiring a mediocre-bad coach now for $400,000, I would choose the former. I mean, even someone like Enfield got $1,000,000 from USC and that was basically only because he got FGCU to the Sweet 16 (he can thank us for our part in that). In this coaching market, $400,000 just won't cut it.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 27, 2017 11:03:21 GMT -5
Do you really think the kids looked like they weren't trying to win the DePaul or St. John's games? Against DePaul, we fought until the end and the players were extremely upset at losing. Against St. John's, we were down a significant margin before making a 17-0 run to get back in the game. If the guys weren't trying to win, the 17-0 run would've never happened and we would have lost by 20+. I think that the team was disorganized, unfocused and without a plan of action. The players are not listening to the coaching staff. The play on the court is terrible ... at this point it's hard to say if it's coaching or the team's complete and total lack of focus/listening to the coaching. The last two games will long be remembered as a blight on the program. I will be in my seats on Saturday and cheering at the appropriate times and jeering at the appropriate times. To DFW's point about G-Town not being able to afford buying JT3 out ... first, the school should try to negotiate something equitable and fair ... second, the school should just bite the bullet and view it as a sunk cost and hire someone less experienced and far less expensive. Some hungry young coach will take the head coach position at Georgetown for a fraction of the current salary. I think if we can afford to pay JT3 $2.8 million then we can afford another $400 or $500K on top of that for the next few years ... I don't know that anyone really knows what the buyout is, do they (even DFW)? I don't even think we know the nominal remaining number of years on his deal. Surely, the buyout is a significant number, but just as surely, it's a significant amount less than whatever the nominal remaining salary is. The point is: it may be fairly easily doable. It may also be significant enough that if the administration is not entirely sold on replacing him, its significance (and the fact that it necessarily would decrease after another year) could be enough to convince them to bring him back. We just don't know. But I will say this: If the administration is convinced that III isn't going to turn it around, and that another year of III will result in massive losses of revenue (and a significantly longer period needed to potentially rebuild than if a move were made now), they'll find the money, no matter how significant.
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Post by practice on Feb 27, 2017 11:08:40 GMT -5
To DFW's point about G-Town not being able to afford buying JT3 out ... first, the school should try to negotiate something equitable and fair ... second, the school should just bite the bullet and view it as a sunk cost and hire someone less experienced and far less expensive. Some hungry young coach will take the head coach position at Georgetown for a fraction of the current salary. I think if we can afford to pay JT3 $2.8 million then we can afford another $400 or $500K on top of that for the next few years ... Do you seriously think we are going to attract someone even remotely good with a $400,000 salary? We are going to have trouble attracting someone good under the best of circumstances, but certainly not at $400,000 or $500,000. While I am generally supportive of retaining JT3 at the moment, if it was a choice between waiting a year or two and then hiring someone with a bigger budget, or hiring a mediocre-bad coach now for $400,000, I would choose the former. I mean, even someone like Enfield got $1,000,000 from USC and that was basically only because he got FGCU to the Sweet 16 (he can thank us for our part in that). In this coaching market, $400,000 just won't cut it. Yes ... I think there are many, many young coaches who would take this job tomorrow for $400K. The last thing Georgetown needs is a name coach. Hire young, hungry and not well known ... hire a good HS school coach at this point. They need someone who can RECRUIT, MOTIVATE and COACH A STYLE THAT COMPETE IN 2017. JT3 arguably does one of those OK. Not too long ago Shaka Smart was pulling in $300K at VCU. I'd be dismayed if JT3 left and then GU hired some retread who had success a few years ago ... this time for a bold move along the lines of replacing 3 and 23 Coach Magee with JT2! Regime change.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Feb 27, 2017 11:10:07 GMT -5
To DFW's point about G-Town not being able to afford buying JT3 out ... first, the school should try to negotiate something equitable and fair ... second, the school should just bite the bullet and view it as a sunk cost and hire someone less experienced and far less expensive. Some hungry young coach will take the head coach position at Georgetown for a fraction of the current salary. I think if we can afford to pay JT3 $2.8 million then we can afford another $400 or $500K on top of that for the next few years ... Do you seriously think we are going to attract someone even remotely good with a $400,000 salary? We are going to have trouble attracting someone good under the best of circumstances, but certainly not at $400,000 or $500,000. While I am generally supportive of retaining JT3 at the moment, if it was a choice between waiting a year or two and then hiring someone with a bigger budget, or hiring a mediocre-bad coach now for $400,000, I would choose the former. I mean, even someone like Enfield got $1,000,000 from USC and that was basically only because he got FGCU to the Sweet 16 (he can thank us for our part in that). In this coaching market, $400,000 just won't cut it. To that topic, the incremental cost is the new salary. JT III, if he is his father' son, will not leave a Nickle on the table. The $3MM is already gone. The question is can GU afford the new salary?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 27, 2017 11:15:42 GMT -5
Yes ... I think there are many, many young coaches who would take this job tomorrow for $400K. The last thing Georgetown needs is a name coach. Hire young, hungry and not well known ... hire a good HS school coach at this point. They need someone who can RECRUIT, MOTIVATE and COACH A STYLE THAT COMPETE IN 2017. JT3 arguably does one of those OK. Not too long ago Shaka Smart was pulling in $300K at VCU. I'd be dismayed if JT3 left and then GU hired some retread who had success a few years ago ... this time for a bold move along the lines of replacing 3 and 23 Coach Magee with JT2! Regime change. Of course there are many young coaches who would take the job. That's not the question. The question is whether they are coaches we would want to hire and lead our program. Keep in mind we cannot hire someone, and then fire them next year if they are horrible. You need to give any new coach a chance, which means you want to be extra-careful to pick someone who is the best representative of the university and best coach you could hire. As far as a "name coach," we aren't going to get one, even if we tried. There are no "name coaches" who would come to Georgetown that aren't serious retreads. And even then, it's doubtful. And hiring a high school coach is nonsensical. Yes, JT Jr. was a high school coach, but this isn't the 1970s anymore. (I would also note that when JT Jr. was hired from a high school, the Georgetown program wasn't even remotely close to the level it is now.) And, for every Shaka Smart pulling in a lower salary who succeed, there are 10+ other coaches who make similar money and never succeed.
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