DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 4, 2020 12:27:55 GMT -5
You mean to tell me a bunch of tweets aren’t enough for me to form my own opinion of what actually happened? I’m shocked!
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 4, 2020 12:33:00 GMT -5
Soon, even the dads of recruits won’t remember our glory days. Objects in the rearview mirror are getting further in the distance. It's alright. As long as the uncles remember that's what's important.
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Jan 4, 2020 14:50:34 GMT -5
The Athletic (subscription) has an interview today with Williams and his dad about decommitting from Georgetown and then shifting to Michigan. some highlights: -Dad feels he pressured Terrance into his initial Georgetown decision. Dad said that Georgetown was "my dream, not his". this is why he did not sign a letter of intent. He wanted to keep things open to see how he felt about Georgetown over time. So he was never truly committed to Georgetown. Williams dad is apparently a very big guy physically, with a matching personality. He seems to have some self-awareness about the fact that he can be pretty forceful with his opinions -When the transfer stuff went down, Williams talked to his family and said that he really was never ready to commit to Georgetown, and he felt that he needed to pull out of the commitment. It sounds like this was going to happen eventually even without the transfers, they just served to provide Williams with a moment of clarity to step up and take control of his future by being completely honest with his dad about where he stood on his college decision. -Williams and his dad met personally with Ewing to tell him that he was pulling out of his Hoya commitment. I was happy to read that they felt it as important to do this face to face. And the dad wanted to be part of it to take some of the responsibility for pressuring Terrance into his initial Georgetown decision before Terrance was ready. -Martelli going to Michigan was the key to his decision to go to Michigan. Martelli was one of the first coaches to recruit him when Phil was at St. Joe's, and Williams really likes him. But as Williams improved and got higher level programs interested, he dropped St. Joe's from his recruiting. -when Martelli was hired at Michigan, Williams decided to consider them. Howard recruited him late, likely on Martelli's recommendation. Nothing particularly sleazy here, Howard asked Williams if he was still open to considering other schools and Williams told him he was. Sounds like Howard contacted him before he formally de-committed. But the fact that he did not sign an LOI plus Martelli's rec led Howard to reach out to him. Maybe some would consider this a sleazy move, but this is a serious business and I would think most coaches would do pretty much what Howard did. I have a hard time viewing this as problematic behavior on Howard/Martelli's part. -The main takeaway from the article for me - I doubt that Williams was ever really, in his heart, planning to come to Georgetown. He had nothing bad to say about Georgetown/Ewing. It seems that his dad pretty much pressured him into the initial Hoya commitment when Terrance was not ready to make this decision. The dad was very clear in the interview that he takes the responsibility for the initial commitment being made before Terrance was ready. -I guess this interview made me feel somewhat better about the whole Williams situation. he never should have committed to us in the first place. I bet that Ewing had a good sense of what was going on, given how aggressively he went after Sibley even after we got the Williams commitment. Nothing really surprising in the interview, but I found it helpful to get the full story. Thanks for sharing this with us. So often these decisions seem opaque and we jump to one-sided conclusions. (And on this board we focus on program's flaws). It seems like a familiar story where a parent weighs in on college choice and child needs to make decision on his own. Both father and son seem like good people. I wish Williams luck and will follow his career.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 4, 2020 15:31:40 GMT -5
While this does make me feel better about the whole Williams recruitment and how it all went down, it also makes me feel worse that Ewing didn't do better with initially putting together his staff like Howard apparently has. A guy like Martelli would have been a fantastic hire and I'm sure beyond even helping to land a guy like Williams, he's probably also had a positive impact on player development and in-game X's and O's.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Jan 4, 2020 16:35:04 GMT -5
While this does make me feel better about the whole Williams recruitment and how it all went down, it also makes me feel worse that Ewing didn't do better with initially putting together his staff like Howard apparently has. A guy like Martelli would have been a fantastic hire and I'm sure beyond even helping to land a guy like Williams, he's probably also had a positive impact on player development and in-game X's and O's. The NYTimes article this week made it pretty clear that Louis Orr is our Martelli. Ewing gives him a lot of credit for the coaching success he has had at Georgetown. www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/sports/ncaabasketball/college-basketball-assistant-coaches.html
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 4, 2020 17:13:24 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing this with us. So often these decisions seem opaque and we jump to one-sided conclusions. (And on this board we focus on program's flaws). It seems like a familiar story where a parent weighs in on college choice and child needs to make decision on his own. Both father and son seem like good people. I wish Williams luck and will follow his career. The aformentioned Williams article puts this into view: if the top local recruit, from the District's Jesuit high school no less, doesn't want to play at Georgetown, that's a problem that other recruits notice and other programs take advantage of.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 4, 2020 17:37:06 GMT -5
We have the following: 10-time NBA All-Star Coach TAC (with pro teams practicing) Big East Jordan Brand DMV area Top-10 basketball budget Capital One Center
Yet, we can’t land/keep top recruits, finish in the top third of the conference and make the NCAAs.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 4, 2020 17:54:28 GMT -5
We have the following: 10-time NBA All-Star Coach TAC (with pro teams practicing) Big East Jordan Brand DMV area Top-10 basketball budget Capital One Center Yet, we can’t land/keep top recruits, finish in the top third of the conference and make the NCAAs. Are the two deal-breaking questions: What've you won lately? and How hard will I have to study? "I want to play uptempo" without a Princeton variation would seem to have gone out quite awhile ago.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 4, 2020 18:03:33 GMT -5
We have the following: 10-time NBA All-Star Coach TAC (with pro teams practicing) Big East Jordan Brand DMV area Top-10 basketball budget Capital One Center Yet, we can’t land/keep top recruits, finish in the top third of the conference and make the NCAAs. Are the two deal-breaking questions: What've you won lately? and How hard will I have to study? third deal breaker question: $$$$$
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 4, 2020 18:07:15 GMT -5
Are the two deal-breaking questions: What've you won lately? and How hard will I have to study? third deal breaker question: $$$$$ Probably true, but do we think some of our more recently successful Big East brethren are dirty?
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 4, 2020 18:15:22 GMT -5
third deal breaker question: $$$$$ Probably true, but do we think some of our more recently successful Big East brethren are dirty? Look where our guys went. Will Wade LSU = $$$$ Shawn Miller Arizona = $$$$
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 4, 2020 18:16:08 GMT -5
Juwan Howard Michigan = $$$$ 2 vacated Final Fours.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 4, 2020 18:17:38 GMT -5
Probably true, but do we think some of our more recently successful Big East brethren are dirty? Look where our guys went. Will Wade LSU = $$$$ Shawn Miller Arizona = $$$$ You didn't answer Iowa80’s question?
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 4, 2020 18:19:14 GMT -5
Look where our guys went. Will Wade LSU = $$$$ Shawn Miller Arizona = $$$$ You didn't answer Iowa80’s question? UConn isn't in the Big East. Not till what next year at least.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 4, 2020 18:51:14 GMT -5
You didn't answer Iowa80’s question? UConn isn't in the Big East. Not till what next year at least. So the answer is no you don't think the current BE teams are dirty. I agree with you...
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 4, 2020 20:07:00 GMT -5
UConn isn't in the Big East. Not till what next year at least. So the answer is no you don't think the current BE teams are dirty. I agree with you... I think the best reason as to why our BE peers recruit better than us is that for they know who they are and what type of player they want. Other than Villanova (and only recently) no one is going after 5* guys they have little chance of landing. Rather, they focus on certain 3* and 4* guys who fit their program and their needs. Sure every once in a while Xavier or Marquette or PC lands a Top 50 guy, but it’s the exception. Instead these teams know who they are and focus on local guys, program fits, positional fits, etc. I give Pat credit for trying to land guys like Cole Anthony, Khalil Whitney, RJ Davis, Isaiah Stewart, Ashton Haggans, etc, and some of them could have been program altering. But at what cost was devoting time and resources to these longshots? Certainly some of it was unlucky with some guys we were in early on, but that will always happen. Additionally, what is the strategy here? It feels like a NFL draft where a team’s strategy is go for the best player rather than need or fit. IMO, that’s not a good approach to building a program that needs an identity. Ewing’s main recruits have been decommits (Pickett, McClung, Akinjo) or transfers (Yurt, Allen, Malinowski). His track record on getting what I’ll call “traditional” commits leaves a lot to be desired and results in an approach that feels like just collecting loose ends rather than building a program with targeted and specific pieces. This to me is why the other teams in our conference with less resources, tradition, geographical advantages, etc. have built stronger programs through an approach that it’s more thoughtful and bound for success.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 4, 2020 21:08:20 GMT -5
Ewing’s main recruits have been decommits (Pickett, McClung, Akinjo) or transfers (Yurt, Allen, Malinowski). His track record on getting what I’ll call “traditional” commits leaves a lot to be desired and results in an approach that feels like just collecting loose ends rather than building a program with targeted and specific pieces. Decommits: Jamorko Pickett (Mississippi) - 76 games, 8.0 ppg Mac McClung (Rutgers) - 43 games, 14.0 ppg James Akinjo (Connecticut) - 40 games, 13.4 ppg Chris Sodom (NM State) - 6 games, 0.7 ppgTransfers: Greg Malinowski (W&M) - 33 games, 5.7 ppg Omer Yurtseven (NC State) - 15 games, 17.3 ppg Galen Alexander (LSU/JC) 9 games, 4.2 ppgGrad transfers: Trey Dickerson (South Dakota) - 23 games, 4.3 ppg Terrell Allen (UCF) - 15 games, 6.1 ppg Freshman year recruits: Jahvon Blair - 73 games, 6.7 ppg Antwan Walker - 25 games, 2.6 ppg Grayson Carter - 14 games, 1.1 ppg Josh LeBlanc - 39 games, 8.7 ppg Myron Gardner - 8 games, 3.1 ppgTimothy Ighoefe - 5 games, 2.2 ppg Qudus Wahab - 15 games,3.9 ppg Malcolm Wilson - DNP
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jan 4, 2020 21:15:29 GMT -5
We have the following: 10-time NBA All-Star Coach TAC (with pro teams practicing) Big East Jordan Brand DMV area Top-10 basketball budget Capital One Center Yet, we can’t land/keep top recruits, finish in the top third of the conference and make the NCAAs. These kids do not know Patrick Ewing. They barely saw Juwan Howard play. Pro teams practice at schools all over. It's not a draw. These kids are already friends with pros and rappers on social media, so seeing them in person doesn't wow anyone anymore. The Big East is a good conference, but its quality outranks its perception, particularly outside of the Northeast. Every school has a big time shoe contract. Jordan Brand doesn't draw kids moreso than just a regular Nike deal. Maybe even less so. We may have a nice basketball budget, but I wouldn't bet kids get that impression. TAC is nice, but is it one of the top 10 facilities in the country, when you consider the auxiliary dorm/strength/nutrition facilities that other schools have? Cap One is the single worst venue for basketball on the planet. It is truly awful.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 5, 2020 0:31:49 GMT -5
So the answer is no you don't think the current BE teams are dirty. I agree with you... I think the best reason as to why our BE peers recruit better than us is that for they know who they are and what type of player they want. Other than Villanova (and only recently) no one is going after 5* guys they have little chance of landing. Rather, they focus on certain 3* and 4* guys who fit their program and their needs. Sure every once in a while Xavier or Marquette or PC lands a Top 50 guy, but it’s the exception. Instead these teams know who they are and focus on local guys, program fits, positional fits, etc. I give Pat credit for trying to land guys like Cole Anthony, Khalil Whitney, RJ Davis, Isaiah Stewart, Ashton Haggans, etc, and some of them could have been program altering. But at what cost was devoting time and resources to these longshots? Certainly some of it was unlucky with some guys we were in early on, but that will always happen. Additionally, what is the strategy here? It feels like a NFL draft where a team’s strategy is go for the best player rather than need or fit. IMO, that’s not a good approach to building a program that needs an identity. Ewing’s main recruits have been decommits (Pickett, McClung, Akinjo) or transfers (Yurt, Allen, Malinowski). His track record on getting what I’ll call “traditional” commits leaves a lot to be desired and results in an approach that feels like just collecting loose ends rather than building a program with targeted and specific pieces. This to me is why the other teams in our conference with less resources, tradition, geographical advantages, etc. have built stronger programs through an approach that it’s more thoughtful and bound for success. I think his strategy in general knowing that we're not in a position to get McDonald's All American's (which are monopolized by 4 schools Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Kansas and then the 3 cheater schools getting 1 or 2 a year in Arizona, Will Wade's LSU and Memphis) is to try to get guys with NBA level athleticism and measurables. LeBlanc, McLung, Galen Alexander, Myron Roderick, Pickett's length. Problem is that with the position we're in there is always some trade off because otherwise these guys would all be McDonadl's All Americans and out of reach. So we are looking for guys with upside and high ceilings but they may not be Reggie Cameron type model nice guys with zero athletic ability. That's what is unfortunate is that 3 of the NBA level athletes are gone and the only one left is McClung.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Jan 5, 2020 2:12:04 GMT -5
Totally agree. But he "needed the ball." If there was a problem with Akinjo and Mac, just imagine Rodney as a third in that mix. I always thought LJ did a pretty unselfish job of mixing in with Rodney. That team didn't make the tourney though. Our overall skill level has been non-tourney level for awhile which is pretty embarrassing considering how easy it is to make the tourney. Not sure it was the skill as much as it was the coaching.
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