It Starts with Recruiting

[bowhoya]

I have no doubt that JT3 can still coach. The problem is in recruiting. The landscape has changed since JT3 arrived on the HillTop almost 13 years ago. Looking back, Georgetown acquired a lot of its talent locally, from DC inter-city schools, including top Catholic league schools and some other DMV schools. In other words, they were able to attract the top talent from this area. Of course, GU also was able to attract talent nationally.

Now, a large part of that pipeline of talent is going elsewhere. Maryland has also benefited much more from the break in the Georgetown talent pipeline. For what every reason, some local talented players don't perceive the GU program the way the program was once viewed. It's a catch-22 situation with the team losing more. Some young players don't want to go to a losing program. Even though, if the talent returned to the program on a regular basis, the program could return to winning.

I know that GU has had a turnover in its recruiters. Some strategy most be employed to improve the recruiting before the program can return to winning.

[the_way]

Maryland for basketball recruits, is like Florida for football recruits.


There is no excuse as to why we can't recruit and get talent. Plenty of talent out there. Good recruiters can sell an igloo to an eskimo.

[hoyainla]

I am sick of the recruiting excuse. We had a Top 5-10 class in 2014 which should've set us up for great for last year and this year. JT3 just didnt land a PG which is the most important position in college basketball. He didn't recognize the game was changing due to the rules and he has paid for it. We just landed a top 5 PG so don't tell me we couldn't have done that in the past 5 years. He just didn't do it.

[joey0403p]

It's just just recruiting. And I don't think you can take as a given that jtiii can coach. Not anymore.

The rules changes 3/4 years ago and he hang really adapted. I'm not saying the man definitely can't coach, I'm just saying that it's a question mark.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Disagree. Recruiting hasn't been the issue, it is the fit and development that have been the issues. Most schools run out multiple point guards now. We didn't recruit one true point and instead focused on combo guys like DSR, LJ, Tre. Think of the guys we missed on, Dion Wiley (combo), Gil (transfer/combo), Curtis Jones (combo), Bruce Brown (combo), Seventh Woods (closest to point but still mainly a combo), Norvell (Combo), Trier (combo). You can see a trend. I think maybe the Gibbs kid and one other were actual point guards (I'll throw Cowan in as well).

JTIII is misidentifying the needs of the modern NCAA. Waters is a start. We need another kid like him in his class or the next. It hasn't hurt Cowan that Trimble is still at Maryland. It didn't hurt Brunson that Arch was at Nova (or that booth is still there). You need depth at the one and everybody should get minutes. We have no true point on the roster so we plug guys like DSR in trying to fit the square peg to a round hole. DSR was great for us but we didn't win at the levels we should because III didn't bring in a well rounded roster. Porter/Whittington were similar players and by all accounts Hop & Tyler were similar. We need more depth and we need pieces that fit. There is no excuse to not having this and with how we have settled back on our traditional sets in big east play, I am just not sure that appeals to getting multiple point guards.

[This Just In]

Jan 19, 2017 11:48:46 GMT -5 bowhoya said:

I have no doubt that JT3 can still coach. The problem is in recruiting. The landscape has changed since JT3 arrived on the HillTop almost 13 years ago. Looking back, Georgetown acquired a lot of its talent locally, from DC inter-city schools, including top Catholic league schools and some other DMV schools. In other words, they were able to attract the top talent from this area. Of course, GU also was able to attract talent nationally.

Now, a large part of that pipeline of talent is going elsewhere. Maryland has also benefited much more from the break in the Georgetown talent pipeline. For what every reason, some local talented players don't perceive the GU program the way the program was once viewed. It's a catch-22 situation with the team losing more. Some young players don't want to go to a losing program. Even though, if the talent returned to the program on a regular basis, the program could return to winning.

I know that GU has had a turnover in its recruiters. Some strategy most be employed to improve the recruiting before the program can return to winning.

The issue is not just recruiting...
People forget that this team had 3 McDonald All-Americans in the starting lineup for 2 years
The team failed to win a BE Reg. Title
The team failed to win a BET Title
The team failed to win 1 gm in either the NIT or NCAA's

[the_way]

Jan 19, 2017 12:49:05 GMT -5 This Just In said:

Jan 19, 2017 11:48:46 GMT -5 bowhoya said:

I have no doubt that JT3 can still coach. The problem is in recruiting. The landscape has changed since JT3 arrived on the HillTop almost 13 years ago. Looking back, Georgetown acquired a lot of its talent locally, from DC inter-city schools, including top Catholic league schools and some other DMV schools. In other words, they were able to attract the top talent from this area. Of course, GU also was able to attract talent nationally.

Now, a large part of that pipeline of talent is going elsewhere. Maryland has also benefited much more from the break in the Georgetown talent pipeline. For what every reason, some local talented players don't perceive the GU program the way the program was once viewed. It's a catch-22 situation with the team losing more. Some young players don't want to go to a losing program. Even though, if the talent returned to the program on a regular basis, the program could return to winning.

I know that GU has had a turnover in its recruiters. Some strategy most be employed to improve the recruiting before the program can return to winning.

The issue is not just recruiting...
People forget that this team had 3 McDonald All-Americans in the starting lineup for 2 years
The team failed to win a BE Reg. Title
The team failed to win a BET Title
The team failed to win 1 gm in either the NIT or NCAA's

Exactly

Those 3 McDonald All-Americans don't tell the whole story. That is the problem with labels, recruiting services and recruiting rankings.

Who were those 3 All-americans? What positions did they play and were they the right fit to achieve success?

Those 3 guys, that core group, had limitations which lead to those disappointing finishes.

We were soft in the middle. Monroe at Center, played a cerebral, below the rim passing game. Wright was the primary ball-handler on the team that had trouble finishing going to the rim. Freeman was a great scorer, but could not defend. Physical and quick teams would give those teams problems.

III had better teams (even if you exclude the Final Four and Sweet Sixteen teams) compared to those 2 years they were here..

[FormerHoya]

Yeah, if only Georgetown had players as good as those on Providence. Or Arkansas St. Or Radford.

Or every Big East team not named DePaul or St. Johns.

This argument carries no water.

[FrazierFanatic]

The fan base overestimated the talent.

As does pretty much every fan base.

But we have better talent than 1-5.

[prhoya]

Jan 19, 2017 17:01:10 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

The fan base overestimated the talent.

As does pretty much every fan base.

Who are we to believe? I'm still waiting for JT3's "Most Improved" Kaleb to get more playing time and show whatever JT3 saw. JT3 sold us on the "most improved". Injury aside, it's mid-January, unleash him. Take out any player not named LJ who is not giving 100% and lets see what we have in Kaleb.

[Bigs"R"Us]

I root for Kaleb, but he just hasn't shown much on the floor.

[alleninxis]

So, III needs 4 and 5 NBA frontline players like he did when he first arrived to make this work?

If so, how will it ever work? He's never getting that caliber and quantity again with the way this thing is going.

There is more than enough raw talent that has walked through the door to not miss the tournament 3/4 years and certainly not turn into the laughing stock of a new Big East that they were supposed to carry the flag for.

This program has failed at developing talent, and utilizing it on the floor. The offense we have run lately with Pryor and Peak as the wings is disturbing and should give a kid like Waters pause on really joining this program.

Rule changes/emphasis and the way the game has gone has truly hurt him as a coach. And if he needs an overwhelming amount of talent to offset it, it's not going to happen.

[KHoyaNYC]

We're grasping at straws folks. Play Kaleb and Mosley more! Why isn't Mourning in? Bench Hayes! Unfortunately, no quick fixes for this team, too many deficient parts.

[FrazierFanatic]

Jan 19, 2017 17:25:47 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Jan 19, 2017 17:01:10 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

The fan base overestimated the talent.

As does pretty much every fan base.

Who are we to believe? I'm still waiting for JT3's "Most Improved" Kaleb to get more playing time and show whatever JT3 saw. JT3 sold us on the "most improved". Injury aside, it's mid-January, unleash him. Take out any player not named LJ who is not giving 100% and lets see what we have in Kaleb.

Yeah we have seen what we have. Good kid, great effort, pretty good D. Offensive liability.

[bostonfan]

Jan 19, 2017 22:02:07 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

Jan 19, 2017 17:25:47 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Who are we to believe? I'm still waiting for JT3's "Most Improved" Kaleb to get more playing time and show whatever JT3 saw. JT3 sold us on the "most improved". Injury aside, it's mid-January, unleash him. Take out any player not named LJ who is not giving 100% and lets see what we have in Kaleb.

Yeah we have seen what we have. Good kid, great effort, pretty good D. Offensive liability.

I really believe Kaleb would get you 6 -10 points a game if he was given more minutes on a consistent basis. Add that to his good defense, rebounding and excellent work ethic and you have a valuable role player. At this point he is not a guy who you are going to run plays for, but he will get you points through his efforts on the offensive glass, running the floor hard in transition and making an occasional steal. Every team needs guys who will do all the dirty work he does. While I don't ever see him as an explosive offensive threat, I think he can make shots when he is open ( he certainly did in high school) and if he is on the floor with LJ and Rodney he should get some open looks. 

[aleutianhoya]

Jan 20, 2017 9:01:02 GMT -5 bostonfan said:

Jan 19, 2017 22:02:07 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

Yeah we have seen what we have. Good kid, great effort, pretty good D. Offensive liability.

I really believe Kaleb would get you 6 -10 points a game if he was given more minutes on a consistent basis. Add that to his good defense, rebounding and excellent work ethic and you have a valuable role player. At this point he is not a guy who you are going to run plays for, but he will get you points through his efforts on the offensive glass, running the floor hard in transition and making an occasional steal. Every team needs guys who will do all the dirty work he does. While I don't ever see him as an explosive offensive threat, I think he can make shots when he is open ( he certainly did in high school) and if he is on the floor with LJ and Rodney he should get some open looks. 

He's getting ten minutes a game. That's a considerable amount. It's not like he's Trey.

[calhoya]

The key with Kaleb is not whether he is used but how he is used. The kid gives a good effort and is a decent defender--we have all lost perspective on what constitutes a good defender because as a group this team plays poor defense. However, using Kaleb in lineups that feature other players who are not outside offensive threats is in my opinion a major mistake. Using Kaleb when there are not at least two decent ballhandlers on the floor is also a mistake. He does not have a good handle. I think Kaleb playing with Pryor and Peak or Derrickson is okay. Too many times though Kaleb is out there with a predominant line-up of non-scorers. I also cannot see using Kaleb in tight end of game situations when FT shooting could very well be the difference, unless it is an offense/defense rotation with a Pryor or Peak.

[Deleted]

Jan 20, 2017 9:47:02 GMT -5 calhoya said:

The key with Kaleb is not whether he is used but how he is used. The kid gives a good effort and is a decent defender--we have all lost perspective on what constitutes a good defender because as a group this team plays poor defense. However, using Kaleb in lineups that feature other players who are not outside offensive threats is in my opinion a major mistake. Using Kaleb when there are not at least two decent ballhandlers on the floor is also a mistake. He does not have a good handle. I think Kaleb playing with Pryor and Peak or Derrickson is okay. Too many times though Kaleb is out there with a predominant line-up of non-scorers. I also cannot see using Kaleb in tight end of game situations when FT shooting could very well be the difference, unless it is an offense/defense rotation with a Pryor or Peak.

Correctamundo

[NCHoya]

The presumption that JT3 can coach in the current environment is an assumption I would not neccessarily make. There has been enough talent on this roster to do much better.

But recruiting to what he wants his team to do is definitely a signficant part of the problem. He could be one of the worst tenured coaches I have seen when it comes to getting the "right" players that "fit" into what he is trying to accomplish. Too often we see guys come in and not improve or look more comfortable at what III is trying to do. Some of it is because III changes things so often (which has become its own problem), but at this point, it is apparent he is not a coach that develops talent.

I think he expects these 18-20 year olds to do the work on their own and that is a terrible assumption on his part. If that is his expectation than it is critical that he looks for this personality trait when recruiting regardless of how many stars a player gets.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Jan 20, 2017 10:59:49 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

I think he expects these 18-20 year olds to do the work on their own and that is a terrible assumption on his part. If that is his expectation than it is critical that he looks for this personality trait when recruiting regardless of how many stars a player gets.

I highly doubt JT3 or anybody who has extensive experience with kids/guys in this age group would assume they'll do all the work on their own to improve.