blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,762
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Post by blueandgray on Jan 18, 2017 2:05:18 GMT -5
Georgetown will never cut ties with the Thompsons ...nor should they. If a coaching change were to happen, it would be down the road or at the end of a contract. Moreover, it would be done with the help and understanding of the Thompsons. The Thompsons are synonymous with Georgetown basketball and hopefully there is a way for the family to remain involved at some level. Georgetown is their legacy and they too want to see it thrive.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Jan 18, 2017 6:43:24 GMT -5
Xavier has lost 3 games straight coming into this game and they also know that outside of DePaul & St. Johns, The Hoyas have lost 15 games straight against the other BE teams coming into this contest... Trust me, Georgetown will have Xavier's and Chris Mack's full attention on Sunday @ 2pm. We always have Chris Mack's attention. He coaches circles around JTIII everytime we play them.It sure seems like it. Even though the Hoyas split the series with Xavier last year The New Big East Record Vs. Xavier: 2-6 (.250) The only 2 teams JTIII has a worst record against in the NBE are Record Vs. Villanova: 1-6 (.142) Record Vs. Providence: 1-7 (.125) Record Vs. Villanova, Xavier and Providence: 4-19 (.173)
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,216
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Post by alleninxis on Jan 18, 2017 9:03:16 GMT -5
If they care that much about it and want it to thrive - they should also know when to step away.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 18, 2017 9:07:06 GMT -5
Not now. Maybe that point arrives one day, but we are not within shouting distance at the moment.
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ahoya2
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 135
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Post by ahoya2 on Jan 18, 2017 11:16:14 GMT -5
Been watching Hoya basketball as an undergraduate student, med school, former Hoop Club president and season holder for 36 years . Dr Quigley is correct boys and girls. John T III has to be as frustrated as are all fans including moi. Couple observations. -III has shown over his career he can successfully coach -the Princeton offense is a passing offense and it modifications are used by some pro teams -players play. If you look at all of our successful NCAA tournament teams we have had 1-2 pros ( except for the one Escherick surpising sweet 16 team) We have not had a pro prospect since Porter. Still don't Copeland hustled but a close examination of him evern in the kenner league showed he couldn't move to create his own shot and didn't Peak is a nice player but even an NBA second rounder???
I don't know what the answer is. Some new assistant coaches? Not sure.
I am as frustrated as anyone but I am still a fan.
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Highsmith
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,490
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Post by Highsmith on Jan 18, 2017 11:37:54 GMT -5
Been watching Hoya basketball as an undergraduate student, med school, former Hoop Club president and season holder for 36 years . Dr Quigley is correct boys and girls. John T III has to be as frustrated as are all fans including moi. Couple observations. -III has shown over his career he can successfully coach -the Princeton offense is a passing offense and it modifications are used by some pro teams -players play. If you look at all of our successful NCAA tournament teams we have had 1-2 pros ( except for the one Escherick surpising sweet 16 team) We have not had a pro prospect since Porter. Still don't Copeland hustled but a close examination of him evern in the kenner league showed he couldn't move to create his own shot and didn't Peak is a nice player but even an NBA second rounder??? I don't know what the answer is. Some new assistant coaches? Not sure. I am as frustrated as anyone but I am still a fan. We have new assistants this year. I agree about the talent level though. I, too, am still a fan....albeit a critical one. I've pointed out in other posts that the problems we see now were evident in past years, but the level of players we had were able to mask them.....until tournament time. That is why I feel it is time to make the change. Successful regular seasons and post-seasons.....to successful regular seasons and post-season disappointments......to unsuccessful regular seasons and little to no post-season. That is our general trajectory. It isn't a straight line down, but that is the trend. Tremont looks like a great one and I would hate to lose him, but we don't have a lot to go with him. Maybe he makes everyone that much better....but that's a lot of pressure to put on one freshman.
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
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Post by FLHoya on Jan 18, 2017 13:44:52 GMT -5
Georgetown will never cut ties with the Thompsons ...nor should they. If a coaching change were to happen, it would be down the road or at the end of a contract. Moreover, it would be done with the help and understanding of the Thompsons. The Thompsons are synonymous with Georgetown basketball and hopefully there is a way for the family to remain involved at some level. Georgetown is their legacy and they too want to see it thrive. It has to be said though--one gets the palpable feeling over the past couple years that more and more alumni and fans are questioning whether Georgetown's extreme deference to this legacy is worth it any more. Some of this may be generational: I'm still barely a mid-career professional, and I was born after the 1982 Final Four. JT2 retired when I was in High School. It's the stuff of ESPN Classic (when that existed) for me on many levels. Many current Georgetown students weren't alive when Allen Iverson was wearing the Blue and Gray. For many of them, is John Thompson any more than the statue in the lobby of the IAC and the old guy in the hat in front of the home-side student section? I'm very proud of the rich history of this program, and deeply appreciative of John Thompson's singular role in building it. I get that this doesn't exist the way it does without him. But at the same time...it doesn't exist without fans either. And there has to be some balance between upholding the legacy of the man/family that built the program and the thousands of stakeholders among alumni and friends of the University who also play a critical role in maintaining the program. I think Georgetown's fans are--I'm gonna say it, quite rightly--questioning that balance more and more these days. And I think the generational balance is only going to make this trend more apparent. I wish I had something constructive to say about the Xavier game, but I'm just kind of discouraged lately.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 18, 2017 14:26:30 GMT -5
I'm very proud of the rich history of this program, and deeply appreciative of John Thompson's singular role in building it. I get that this doesn't exist the way it does without him. But at the same time...it doesn't exist without fans either. And there has to be some balance between upholding the legacy of the man/family that built the program and the thousands of stakeholders among alumni and friends of the University who also play a critical role in maintaining the program. You are right in that there are many elements to any program. There are people like John Thompson's singular role in establishing the program, the administration, alumni, donors, fans, etc. And I agree that you cannot favor one element too strongly over another. That said, not all the elements are weighed evenly. Obviously, donors are a pretty huge influence. But let's not kid ourselves. In the larger scheme of things, most donors to Georgetown overall are donating because of the school's academics and the impact it has had on them. That is not to say there aren't many donors to the athletic program - surely there are - but I am guessing that donations specifically to athletics are a relatively small part of overall fundraising. Now, others on here have stated that the basketball program is largely self-sustaining. I am sure donations are a part of that, but it takes a lot of donations to even come close to the amount we get from Fox Sports 1, for example. The administration surely is important - after all they make the decisions. Rightly, I think John Thompson Jr. should get a large amount of respect and influence given his role in the program's history and his building of the program. Obviously, you don't hand over the reigns and let him do whatever he wants (and I don't think Georgetown has done that fully, at least), but I think it's fair to say that he should be influential. Now, you can argue about how much influence he should have, but the idea of a total break from the Thompson tradition is ill advised and highly misguided. Really, the "thousands of stakeholders among alumni and friends" are really the least important of all the elements, though still very important. You have the die-hards who are going to donate and go to games no matter what. You also have the completely casual fans who will never come to a game unless we are winning and it becomes a cool thing to go to a game. This isn't unique to Georgetown. All sports teams draw better when they win. And then there are the people in the middle who might donate less and go to fewer games when we are bad, yet they still are very interested in the program (and I think much of HoyaTalk falls into this bucket). My point is, for all the angst and criticisms among fans, and the need for a "balance" between fans and everything else, I just don't know how widespread and influential the angst-ridden fans are really going to have. My sense is this group is a lot smaller than it might seem (though extremely vocal).
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 18, 2017 14:34:40 GMT -5
Well said 2003.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 18, 2017 16:30:39 GMT -5
Georgetown will never cut ties with the Thompsons ...nor should they. If a coaching change were to happen, it would be down the road or at the end of a contract. Moreover, it would be done with the help and understanding of the Thompsons. The Thompsons are synonymous with Georgetown basketball and hopefully there is a way for the family to remain involved at some level. Georgetown is their legacy and they too want to see it thrive. It has to be said though--one gets the palpable feeling over the past couple years that more and more alumni and fans are questioning whether Georgetown's extreme deference to this legacy is worth it any more. Some of this may be generational: I'm still barely a mid-career professional, and I was born after the 1982 Final Four. JT2 retired when I was in High School. It's the stuff of ESPN Classic (when that existed) for me on many levels. Many current Georgetown students weren't alive when Allen Iverson was wearing the Blue and Gray. For many of them, is John Thompson any more than the statue in the lobby of the IAC and the old guy in the hat in front of the home-side student section? I'm very proud of the rich history of this program, and deeply appreciative of John Thompson's singular role in building it. I get that this doesn't exist the way it does without him. But at the same time...it doesn't exist without fans either. And there has to be some balance between upholding the legacy of the man/family that built the program and the thousands of stakeholders among alumni and friends of the University who also play a critical role in maintaining the program. I think Georgetown's fans are--I'm gonna say it, quite rightly--questioning that balance more and more these days. And I think the generational balance is only going to make this trend more apparent. I wish I had something constructive to say about the Xavier game, but I'm just kind of discouraged lately. FL if you are only "kind of" discouraged lately, you are a better man than I!
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MassHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,786
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Post by MassHoya on Jan 18, 2017 16:32:38 GMT -5
If the shirts say Georgetown, I root for them. Like my father used to say, cheer up. Things could be worse. So I cheered up and you know what happened?... Things got worse. I am not cheering up, though, until the Hoyas start winning some games. Go Hoyas, beat the Musketeers!!!
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 18, 2017 16:36:14 GMT -5
51 years as a Cleveland Browns fan. The Hoyas are the least of my pain.
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richfame
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,266
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Post by richfame on Jan 18, 2017 17:27:48 GMT -5
We play today ... we lose today
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 18, 2017 18:36:56 GMT -5
I'm very proud of the rich history of this program, and deeply appreciative of John Thompson's singular role in building it. I get that this doesn't exist the way it does without him. But at the same time...it doesn't exist without fans either. And there has to be some balance between upholding the legacy of the man/family that built the program and the thousands of stakeholders among alumni and friends of the University who also play a critical role in maintaining the program. You are right in that there are many elements to any program. There are people like John Thompson's singular role in establishing the program, the administration, alumni, donors, fans, etc. And I agree that you cannot favor one element too strongly over another. That said, not all the elements are weighed evenly. Obviously, donors are a pretty huge influence. But let's not kid ourselves. In the larger scheme of things, most donors to Georgetown overall are donating because of the school's academics and the impact it has had on them. That is not to say there aren't many donors to the athletic program - surely there are - but I am guessing that donations specifically to athletics are a relatively small part of overall fundraising. Now, others on here have stated that the basketball program is largely self-sustaining. I am sure donations are a part of that, but it takes a lot of donations to even come close to the amount we get from Fox Sports 1, for example. The administration surely is important - after all they make the decisions. Rightly, I think John Thompson Jr. should get a large amount of respect and influence given his role in the program's history and his building of the program. Obviously, you don't hand over the reigns and let him do whatever he wants (and I don't think Georgetown has done that fully, at least), but I think it's fair to say that he should be influential. Now, you can argue about how much influence he should have, but the idea of a total break from the Thompson tradition is ill advised and highly misguided. Really, the "thousands of stakeholders among alumni and friends" are really the least important of all the elements, though still very important. You have the die-hards who are going to donate and go to games no matter what. You also have the completely casual fans who will never come to a game unless we are winning and it becomes a cool thing to go to a game. This isn't unique to Georgetown. All sports teams draw better when they win. And then there are the people in the middle who might donate less and go to fewer games when we are bad, yet they still are very interested in the program (and I think much of HoyaTalk falls into this bucket). My point is, for all the angst and criticisms among fans, and the need for a "balance" between fans and everything else, I just don't know how widespread and influential the angst-ridden fans are really going to have. My sense is this group is a lot smaller than it might seem (though extremely vocal). People on Hoyatalk are the diehards. The middle of the road people don't spend time on Hoyatalk. And those people are going to check out at an even higher rate next year. It's going to be two straight losing seasons (and it's not just the schedule, since they couldn't even beat Radford, Arkansas St., etc), and three missed tournaments out of the last four. Why should anyone care about the team if the administration doesn't?
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Jan 18, 2017 20:54:27 GMT -5
I think most are being driven to apathy due to embarrassment and not wanting to care or think about this program and its continual decline. To say the school doesn't worry about the middle as it has it's larger bases makes no sense. The whole point of supporting this type of program is to enhance the student and alumni experience. It also attracts students to apply to the school. I get the argument that we don't need application help but don't know if that's on point. If you have kids that can get to an Ivy or some other school above or at Georgetown's level academically something like a successful D-1 basketball program could be the difference maker. An Ivy can't offer that experience. However now that our basketball experience is actually a negative as people start mocking this program which is the general sentiment among college basketball fans it backfires on us. All while holding onto a legacy that built this program but can ultimately unwind all that goodwill just the same and that will happen as the good times continue to become ancient history.
If we are going to be bottom of the league I'd argue it would be better to fund an overall set of athletic programs that can compete across the board in whatever conference makes sense than have this one outlier that can't compete and a bunch of others that can't at their respective level. And save the couple of exceptions.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,224
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Post by hoyarooter on Jan 18, 2017 20:55:04 GMT -5
I will never give up on this team. I didn't give up senior year when the team won three games, so why should I give up now?
There is no question that this team achieved heights that were totally unimaginable to those of us who were students in the early '70's or earlier. The 1970 NIT was such a big deal that school was cancelled on St. Patrick's Day so students could go to New York to see us take on Pistol Pete et al. I was a big UCLA fan then (still am), and my friends used to ask me who I would root for if UCLA ever played Georgetown. My stock answer (after attending the Final Four at Cole Field House and watching the Bruins beat New Mexico State and Jacksonville) was that such an event would never occur, so I didn't have to worry about it (the answer, of course, is Georgetown). Final Fours? National Championships? Hah. Pigs would fly first.
So there is no question that we owe a great debt to JT Jr. The new athletic center is deservedly named for him. All that said, FLHoya is right. At some point, you need to take a hard look and assess the direction of the program. If we only end up winning three or four conference games this year (something I view as a realistic possibility), will that not be the time? If not then, then when? Do we have to wait for another three win season?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 19, 2017 2:09:45 GMT -5
The whole point of supporting this type of program is to enhance the student and alumni experience. It also attracts students to apply to the school. I get the argument that we don't need application help but don't know if that's on point. If you have kids that can get to an Ivy or some other school above or at Georgetown's level academically something like a successful D-1 basketball program could be the difference maker. An Ivy can't offer that experience. However now that our basketball experience is actually a negative as people start mocking this program which is the general sentiment among college basketball fans it backfires on us. All while holding onto a legacy that built this program but can ultimately unwind all that goodwill just the same and that will happen as the good times continue to become ancient history. If we are going to be bottom of the league I'd argue it would be better to fund an overall set of athletic programs that can compete across the board in whatever conference makes sense than have this one outlier that can't compete and a bunch of others that can't at their respective level. And save the couple of exceptions. You are right that, to some degree, the basketball program attracts interest to the university. However, I think that is an extremely small element of the university's appeal to students - most of whom couldn't care less about basketball. Of course, winning a national championship or getting attention might increase applications and get additional interest, but the university has so much to offer that basketball is really a tiny part of the overall scheme. It's true an Ivy League school cannot necessarily offer the same level of athletics, but again, most people aren't picking an Ivy League school (or Georgetown) because of athletics unless they are an athlete themselves. I mean, think about it this way - is anyone going to apply to Georgetown, get in, and then say "I'm not going to Georgetown because of their basketball failures?" It's hard to see many people - if any - feeling that way. Academics, geography, etc. are going to matter a LOT more to most students.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 19, 2017 7:11:55 GMT -5
I'm a fan of the Georgetown Hoyas, not the Thompson Family Tree. If the latter continues to be more important than the former to University leadership, I'm not sure how much longer I can bring myself to care. As a 50 year alum I hate to tell you this but there really is no legitimate D! Georgetown Hoyas basketball without the Thompson family tree. I remember when a big game was GW or Navy. JT2 took this program on his back and carried it into the big time. Maybe its time to break with them but don't kid yourself. Georgetown basketball is the house the Thompsons built. The end of the Thompsons will be the end of Georgetown basketball. All the pro alumni will turn their backs on Georgetown if the Thompsons are unceremoniously dumped and Georgetown basketball will end up being a wasteland for the next 30 years like DePaul. Of course maybe that's a good thing because then the money can be poured into the football program which has been the agenda all along of He who must not be Named and his multiple minions.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,358
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Post by prhoya on Jan 19, 2017 7:27:33 GMT -5
As a 50 year alum I hate to tell you this but there really is no legitimate D! Georgetown Hoyas basketball without the Thompson family tree. I remember when a big game was GW or Navy. JT2 took this program on his back and carried it into the big time. Maybe its time to break with them but don't kid yourself. Georgetown basketball is the house the Thompsons built. The end of the Thompsons will be the end of Georgetown basketball. All the pro alumni will turn their backs on Georgetown if the Thompsons are unceremoniously dumped and Georgetown basketball will end up being a wasteland for the next 30 years like DePaul. Of course maybe that's a good thing because then the money can be poured into the football program which has been the agenda all along of He who must not be Named and his multiple minions. No chance the Thompsons are "unceremoniously dumped". It would be a private and and classy parting of ways. Thus, the rest does not apply.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 19, 2017 10:59:12 GMT -5
Pr, just to be clear - so if we assume that III does not want to resign after this season, you are saying he will not be fired?
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