hoyas212
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 324
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Post by hoyas212 on Jan 29, 2022 20:15:09 GMT -5
You may realize of course (or, maybe not) that the aforementioned football stadium just opened in 2021, having taken 22 years and a $50 million gift to get it through the Rubik's cube of Georgetown construction projects, so that's not happening (and let's not even get into the minutiae of Georgetown's floor/area ratio with the District of Columbia). Wow I didn't know that! Well let me ask you something, why in the world would the smart people at Georgetown put so much investment in a DIII program and not put that into a first class DI basketball program instead? Do you think that was smart of them? The $50 million was a gift earmarked for this purpose from Peter Cooper, it’s not the GU administration taking cash out of the endowment or issuing debt. GU football is FCS, not D3. Cooper Field is used for multiple purposes, it’s not solely for football. GU does already invest the money to be a first class D1 basketball program.
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Post by tafkashfsee on Jan 29, 2022 20:17:05 GMT -5
Wow I didn't know that! Well let me ask you something, why in the world would the smart people at Georgetown put so much investment in a DIII program and not put that into a first class DI basketball program instead? Do you think that was smart of them? The $50 million was a gift earmarked for this purpose from Peter Cooper, it’s not the GU administration taking cash out of the endowment or issuing debt. GU football is FCS, not D3. Cooper Field is used for multiple purposes, it’s not solely for football. GU does already invest the money to be a first class D1 basketball program. Okay, thanks for the information. Well I guess the team will have to continue playing downtown.
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Post by KenteKrazies on Jan 31, 2022 16:05:04 GMT -5
Very interesting article. Check out the end for potential models of McDonough that would increase capacity without serious construction. Could be en economically viable option.
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Post by tafkashfsee on Jan 31, 2022 16:16:25 GMT -5
Very interesting article. Check out the end for potential models of McDonough that would increase capacity without serious construction. Could be en economically viable option. I pray that they can pull this off.
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bills
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 235
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Post by bills on Jan 31, 2022 16:37:27 GMT -5
Very well done and interesting analysis. It deserves serious consideration.
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jan 31, 2022 16:42:31 GMT -5
1) Force the band to change the tunes. It's tired, The band adds new songs and cuts old songs every single year. As a reminder, the Georgetown pep band is completely voluntary. They are not on band scholarships, they don’t get paid besides free pizza, they don’t get course credit, and I’m pretty sure they don’t even have a staff conductor any more. They attend every home football, men’s basketball, and women’s basketball game (and other student events/sports events) because they support the Hoyas and like music. Adding a song means either buying the sheet music or a student (or staff conductor when there was one) scoring it themselves. So that requires money and or time, which are both limited for a voluntary student club. Let's break down the pep band's music in terms of a basketball game. - Most of the music the pep band plays is in the 30 minutes leading up to tip off. If you're arriving at tip off, you would have missed most of that music. - The official timeouts are scheduled and produced by the athletics department, so most of the songs during the timeouts are chosen by them and the pep band can't remove the songs from their books. That's why in 2003 the band had to play Sheryl Crow's Soak Up The Sun every men's basketball game for an entire season, because the cheerleaders had a dance routine for it during like the first half U12 timeout. And that’s also why the band plays Hey Baby at like the second half U8 timeout of every single game. - For 30 second timeouts, there isn't enough time to play a full song, so usually the band plays "cheers". These are short repetitive melodies that fill space. As an example, the cheer that everyone was familiar with was the "Hey You Suck" cheer that the athletics department eventually banned. Again, the cheerleaders have cheers/chants/dance routines that go along with these, so it would require producing new cheers and getting agreement buy in from the cheerleaders to change those. - I believe the band gets to play a couple songs at the end of halftime, but I'm usually out on the concourse having a beer with friends that are sitting in other sections during halftime so I'm not sure. - They play the fight song and alma mater at the end of the game. So if you're basing your assessment of the pep band's music on just the timeouts, then it's really focused on about 20% of their music book and a lot of that percentage is dictated by the athletics department/cheerleaders.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jan 31, 2022 19:18:05 GMT -5
This discussion is like the football and scholarships discussion that comes up every year: there are some creative solutions that *might* be possible, but it's likely that things can't really be changed much and the rest of the conversation gets derailed by people who are not well versed in the issues.
With all of that said: I hate MCI/Verizon/Capital One. I don't care who is playing there or how many fans are there. It's never a good environment for a basketball game. And it is the brightest place on this godforsaken planet.
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Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,482
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Post by Elvado on Jan 31, 2022 19:31:40 GMT -5
This discussion is like the football and scholarships discussion that comes up every year: there are some creative solutions that *might* be possible, but it's likely that things can't really be changed much and the rest of the conversation gets derailed by people who are not well versed in the issues. With all of that said: I hate MCI/Verizon/Capital One. I don't care who is playing there or how many fans are there. It's never a good environment for a basketball game. And it is the brightest place on this godforsaken planet. Agreed. Assuming this mini-renovation is doable, it is a no-brainer. Let our biggest worry be scarcity of tickets.
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hoyaguy
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,852
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Post by hoyaguy on Jan 31, 2022 19:51:06 GMT -5
Especially since bleachers are so easy to put together and the court is already moveable, I wonder if the 45 degrees is allowed for some of those designs. Steep stands are so awesome to watch sports from as I have been in them in South America and Spain like at Real Madrid the high up seats I had it almost felt like I was gonna fall in a good way but everyone had a good view
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Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,432
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jan 31, 2022 21:09:58 GMT -5
My wife likes to watch a program called Restoration Man. It is an English program from about 2010 to 2014, and architect George Clarke helps people to build private residences out of old churches, school, water towers, airport control towers, water mills, and yes even old residences that need restoration. It would seem that McD would fit into this restoration plan. The final results are, as Clarke is wont to say, brilliant.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,381
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Post by drquigley on Jan 31, 2022 21:26:55 GMT -5
All these plans ignore the elephant in the room. Parking. I'm sure there are DC regs about parking v. capacity, especially since there is virtually no public transportation alternative. Add to that the opposition of our well heeled neighbors and you have to assume it will be a knife fight to get a 5,600 seat arena approved by the DC government. Anyone considered this?
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,321
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Post by tashoya on Jan 31, 2022 21:58:32 GMT -5
Very interesting article. Check out the end for potential models of McDonough that would increase capacity without serious construction. Could be en economically viable option. I pray that they can pull this off. Where are people going to park? Also, the public transportation issue is problematic. That said, it WOULD be great for students and, at the end of the day, they're who are most important in terms of building interest and a consistent following.
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,326
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Post by vv83 on Jan 31, 2022 22:32:22 GMT -5
The Barclays center in Brooklyn has the steepest seating I have ever experienced. I sat on the court under the basket on my one visit to Barclay's (for the Indiana/UCLA games in the 2012-13 season), and the upper deck looked disturbingly steep from down on the floor! I just checked on the angle of the Barclays center seating - 36 degrees. This is considered significantly steeper than most arenas, and has apparently been an issue in terms of fans sometimes falling as they go up and down the steep stairs.
So I think 45 degrees would be very steep. This doesn't mean it is not workable, but it would be quite extreme in comparison to most arenas
that being said - these plans all seem fairly simple and potentially financially workable. the parking/traffic issues could well be concerns. But back when I was going to games at McDonough regularly (1979-81, with a capacity probably around 4000) there never seemed to be any significant issues with parking/traffic. Probably because much of the crowd was made up of students, so there may have only been (this is a pure guess) 2,000 or so non-student fans coming from off campus. But I was an oblivious college student - there could have been massive traffic/parking issues that I did not notice because I just had to walk from New South to McDonough for the games.
No matter what the issues are - the school really needs to explore these kind of options fully. If we ever want the program to return to relevance - we have to make much more honest assessments of all kinds of things, and leave behind the remnants of our history that just don't work anymore. Playing all our games in a 75% empty NBA arena a good distance from campus is one of the many things that do not work anymore. Playing in a packed McDough with 4000-5000 fans every game would completely change the game day experience for both the players and the fans.
This is coming from someone who traveled 4+ hours round trip for every home game for 13 years, until covid made it impossible for me to attend games last year, and reluctant to do so this year. I would not be able to go to most of the on campus home games as tickets would be limited to students and big donors. Which would be fine with me if it meant that we had a real home court.
While I doubt the institution will look at this kind of option seriously, it is great that one of the Thompson's Towel student journalists did the work to put together such a well thought out proposal. Maybe this effort will at least lead to some degree of institutional pressure/dialogue around the idea of renovating McDonough into a legitimate home court option.
And if the students fill McDonough on Thursday and create a great environment vs. St. John's, that could also help generate more meaningful discussion.
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boxout05
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 573
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Post by boxout05 on Jan 31, 2022 22:41:38 GMT -5
I pray that they can pull this off. Where are people going to park? Also, the public transportation issue is problematic. That said, it WOULD be great for students and, at the end of the day, they're who are most important in terms of building interest and a consistent following. DC parking handbook says a parking plan is required for any new construction or addition to an an existing strucutre. I presume what's been proposed would not meet either of those thresholds, meaning there is likely no legal requirement to add parking. Otherwise it's either 2 spots per 1,000 sq feet or whatever is dictated by the Campus Plan. Someone more familiar with the Leavey Center or Southwest Garage can quote how many spaces each includes, esp. afterhours when the vast majority of staff has gone home. Regardless, the idea is not to have thousands of season ticketholders driving to campus and ticket office can easily control the number of non-student tix which are distributed. handbook.dcoz.dc.gov/zoning-rules/general-rules/parking/vehicle-parking/
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 1, 2022 0:00:13 GMT -5
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617hoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 254
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Post by 617hoya on Feb 1, 2022 0:18:11 GMT -5
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 1, 2022 9:09:33 GMT -5
1) Force the band to change the tunes. It's tired, The band adds new songs and cuts old songs every single year. As a reminder, the Georgetown pep band is completely voluntary. They are not on band scholarships, they don’t get paid besides free pizza, they don’t get course credit, and I’m pretty sure they don’t even have a staff conductor any more. They attend every home football, men’s basketball, and women’s basketball game (and other student events/sports events) because they support the Hoyas and like music. Adding a song means either buying the sheet music or a student (or staff conductor when there was one) scoring it themselves. So that requires money and or time, which are both limited for a voluntary student club. Let's break down the pep band's music in terms of a basketball game. - Most of the music the pep band plays is in the 30 minutes leading up to tip off. If you're arriving at tip off, you would have missed most of that music. - The official timeouts are scheduled and produced by the athletics department, so most of the songs during the timeouts are chosen by them and the pep band can't remove the songs from their books. That's why in 2003 the band had to play Sheryl Crow's Soak Up The Sun every men's basketball game for an entire season, because the cheerleaders had a dance routine for it during like the first half U12 timeout. And that’s also why the band plays Hey Baby at like the second half U8 timeout of every single game. - For 30 second timeouts, there isn't enough time to play a full song, so usually the band plays "cheers". These are short repetitive melodies that fill space. As an example, the cheer that everyone was familiar with was the "Hey You Suck" cheer that the athletics department eventually banned. Again, the cheerleaders have cheers/chants/dance routines that go along with these, so it would require producing new cheers and getting agreement buy in from the cheerleaders to change those. - I believe the band gets to play a couple songs at the end of halftime, but I'm usually out on the concourse having a beer with friends that are sitting in other sections during halftime so I'm not sure. - They play the fight song and alma mater at the end of the game. Good info LC and clearly it would have to be a move bigger then just the Pep bands decision. All that should be doable though. They pay 70K a year for school, I think the school could pony up for the sheet music. So if you're basing your assessment of the pep band's music on just the timeouts, then it's really focused on about 20% of their music book and a lot of that percentage is dictated by the athletics department/cheerleaders. Good points all. Sounds like it needs to be a decision that is bigger then the pep band but one that should be made (I am basing it off the in game stuff). At 70K a year, I would hope the school could spring for the sheet music.
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hoyajmw
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,031
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Post by hoyajmw on Feb 1, 2022 9:32:37 GMT -5
Patrick understandably has other things on his mind, BUT you can't watch this and think there is ANY chance he cares a whit about playing more games on campus, in reconfigured McDonough or otherwise, and/or that he would spend a moment pushing for any sort of new arena instead. A cock-eyed optimist might say he didn't "close the door" on the new arena idea, but the vibe is certainly that he wishes the door would just blow shut. As he points out, he only played one regular season game there -- which happens to have been one of the most epic games, atmosphere an otherwise in program history -- so (implicitly) why should he want more games there?
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mchoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 375
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Post by mchoya on Feb 1, 2022 9:50:43 GMT -5
All these plans ignore the elephant in the room. Parking. I'm sure there are DC regs about parking v. capacity, especially since there is virtually no public transportation alternative. Add to that the opposition of our well heeled neighbors and you have to assume it will be a knife fight to get a 5,600 seat arena approved by the DC government. Anyone considered this? It is such a non-starter that I cannot believe we are wasting time discussing this. I hate to pull a "back in my day", but the most significant town-gown fight that the current cohort of students has experienced has been... what exactly? Georgetown and the neighbors were in such an all-out brawl in the late 2000s, early 2010s that final approval of the campus plan was described as a "peace-treaty-like setting." Other accounts of campus life in those time periods present entrenched neighbors at loggerheads with University on the most minor of issues. Now you want to add twenty home dates which will tie up Georgetown with even more rush hour traffic AND have no parking available? Good luck. And to what end? The on-campus arena isn't the panacea that supporters make it out to be. Let's look at a former Big East member whose basketball program has fallen on hard times, and seems to address all of the commonly held complaints of people who are critical of the CapOne experience (on campus arena! students on the sideline!)... Pitt. If that's not enough, how about a local team with a fresh young coach that's second in their conference? George Mason's recent attendance, with a modern on-campus arena, has been 2,687 (34%), 2,436 (31%), and 3,222 (41%) over the past three games. Let's think about other ways to build a home court advantage (run more buses! Stop playing games at 6:30 and 8:30 PM for weeknight home games! open more security lines so it doesn't take thirty minutes to get into the arena before tip off) rather than waste time thinking about an answer that won't help. Otherwise, our home games will be at a 5,000 seat arena: St. E's.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,381
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Post by drquigley on Feb 1, 2022 10:39:16 GMT -5
All these plans ignore the elephant in the room. Parking. I'm sure there are DC regs about parking v. capacity, especially since there is virtually no public transportation alternative. Add to that the opposition of our well heeled neighbors and you have to assume it will be a knife fight to get a 5,600 seat arena approved by the DC government. Anyone considered this? It is such a non-starter that I cannot believe we are wasting time discussing this. I hate to pull a "back in my day", but the most significant town-gown fight that the current cohort of students has experienced has been... what exactly? Georgetown and the neighbors were in such an all-out brawl in the late 2000s, early 2010s that final approval of the campus plan was described as a "peace-treaty-like setting." Other accounts of campus life in those time periods present entrenched neighbors at loggerheads with University on the most minor of issues. Now you want to add twenty home dates which will tie up Georgetown with even more rush hour traffic AND have no parking available? Good luck. And to what end? The on-campus arena isn't the panacea that supporters make it out to be. Let's look at a former Big East member whose basketball program has fallen on hard times, and seems to address all of the commonly held complaints of people who are critical of the CapOne experience (on campus arena! students on the sideline!)... Pitt. If that's not enough, how about a local team with a fresh young coach that's second in their conference? George Mason's recent attendance, with a modern on-campus arena, has been 2,687 (34%), 2,436 (31%), and 3,222 (41%) over the past three games. Let's think about other ways to build a home court advantage (run more buses! Stop playing games at 6:30 and 8:30 PM for weeknight home games! open more security lines so it doesn't take thirty minutes to get into the arena before tip off) rather than waste time thinking about an answer that won't help. Otherwise, our home games will be at a 5,000 seat arena: St. E's. Exactly! I had to laugh when one poster said we could avoid the parking problem because adding 3,000+ seats to McDonough would not constitute an "addition" to the gym. Can you imagine how much fun attorneys for our Georgetown neighbors would have debunking that theory?
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