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Post by KenteKrazies on Jan 27, 2022 16:24:43 GMT -5
Re-upping this thread. It has been noted by several that McDonough used to have a larger capacity and could be renovated to seat near 5,000 if the court were turned 90 degrees. Does anybody have images of when the court was at its highest capacity?
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hoyajmw
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Post by hoyajmw on Jan 27, 2022 17:39:50 GMT -5
I'm embarrassed to say I do NOT have a good photo from back in the day of the seating, BUT I can tell you that the big difference from what you see today is that the entrance side baseline had a big width of court temporary bleacher (probably held 300 students maybe more); the OTHER baseline generally only had a little seating (folding chairs) behind it because there was a stage over there (Springsteen graced it). Of course both sides of the court were filled with bleachers (one side now you can tell was but usually folded away now). I know that that configuration had a capacity of about 4200 (per the history page on this site) and that a few years later -- perhaps with more elaborate seating on the far baseline/I don't know -- the capacity was up at 4620 and made for a GREAT atmosphere ("The fire marshall must be out of town!"). I would think the admin. could get to 5,000 or very close to it without even turning the building or court sideways, and I fear the perfect of trying to do that could become an enemy of the good (enough) by making the change-over too elaborate/expensive.
I always thought that the University would never move more than a one-off game on campus because it would cost too much in terms of season ticket holders (and the associated revenue) being boxed out, BUT this year they not only excluded the (what were supposed to be) cupcake games at Cap One from the season ticket package BUT literally could not GIVE away more tickets to those games. And if the University needed to promise the community to limit sales to a small number of non-students to minimize traffic, so be it -- I've had a good run, and it is time the current students got to have some of the good times on a regular basis we all remember. SO I think it would be a great idea as part of a general rethink to go this direction.
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Post by Retro_hoya on Jan 27, 2022 22:59:02 GMT -5
I think this would be one of the biggest changes the program could make to improve student / fan engagement. Play weekend and big out of conference games at Cap One but everything else in an on campus arena. Could even make it easier for alumni groups to get together before or after,, get seats together, etc.
Edit: and I even mean with as few /minimal changes as possible. Bare bones (cheap beer though - especially for seasons like this one), minimum acceptable seating to save renovation cost, etc.
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Post by trillesthoya on Jan 28, 2022 2:44:19 GMT -5
If there is a way to accomplish this without breaking the bank and angering the neighbors, it needs to be done. Play the cupcakes in McDonough and other basement BE teams. Georgetown is always at a disadvantage because of our lack of an on campus arena, and trying to shame the students and fans due to poor attendance clearly isn’t working.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 28, 2022 8:34:55 GMT -5
If there is a way to accomplish this without breaking the bank and angering the neighbors, it needs to be done. Play the cupcakes in McDonough and other basement BE teams. Georgetown is always at a disadvantage because of our lack of an on campus arena, and trying to shame the students and fans due to poor attendance clearly isn’t working. I think if the school is going to consider this, they need to do it right and actually completely renovate the entire facility, and most likely add another tier of seating (basically raise the roof). The facility now does not have any of the amenities that you would expect in a modern on campus arena. I completely agree that having a bunch of games on campus would do a lot to help the program and the support they get from the students. That renovation would allow the school to use the facility for more than just basketball games. It could be a back up location for graduations when it rains and other significant events on campus (concerts and other large speaking events) where they really don't have another venue with enough interior capacity. I don't see how they can do it "on the cheap", so it will take a significant fundraising effort, which the school is very capable of if they decided to make this a priority. If they can raise the money, then the biggest challenge is going to be getting approval from the neighborhood groups and figuring out the parking and extra traffic issues. These are all solvable problems if this was a priority for the school, but I just don't think it is that important to them right now.
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Post by hoyaphan on Jan 28, 2022 8:57:56 GMT -5
I like Verizon center . I would not want to go to an on campus arena : I like to drink 24oz beers and enjoy the game in an arena setting .
What I don’t like is losing every game at home .That’s why attendance is bad. The team is bad. When we are good we have no problem putting 10k in that arena and sometimes 15k plus for the bigger games .
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by iowa80 on Jan 28, 2022 9:00:31 GMT -5
If there is a way to accomplish this without breaking the bank and angering the neighbors, it needs to be done. Play the cupcakes in McDonough and other basement BE teams. Georgetown is always at a disadvantage because of our lack of an on campus arena, and trying to shame the students and fans due to poor attendance clearly isn’t working. I think if the school is going to consider this, they need to do it right and actually completely renovate the entire facility, and most likely add another tier of seating (basically raise the roof). The facility now does not have any of the amenities that you would expect in a modern on campus arena. I completely agree that having a bunch of games on campus would do a lot to help the program and the support they get from the students. That renovation would allow the school to use the facility for more than just basketball games. It could be a back up location for graduations when it rains and other significant events on campus (concerts and other large speaking events) where they really don't have another venue with enough interior capacity. I don't see how they can do it "on the cheap", so it will take a significant fundraising effort, which the school is very capable of if they decided to make this a priority. If they can raise the money, then the biggest challenge is going to be getting approval from the neighborhood groups and figuring out the parking and extra traffic issues. These are all solvable problems if this was a priority for the school, but I just don't think it is that important to them right now. Is parking and traffic really solvable? I don’t see it, and it’s a big problem.
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Post by tafkashfsee on Jan 28, 2022 9:40:05 GMT -5
Now when I brought this up (Georgetown should consider expanding McDonough) a year ago, y'all said that this couldn't be done, that the city won't let Georgetown do this and blah blah blah blah. What is the difference between last year, when I brought it up, and now? I'm just curious.
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Post by practice on Jan 28, 2022 9:52:32 GMT -5
I don't think it can be done ... there's no parking and little to no real estate available. That giant parking lot that some remember by McDonough is gone. It's a pain to park in Georgetown to go out to dinner ... the idea of what 3,000 or more non-students getting up there for a game 20 times a year is insane. Also, if you want to disconnect Georgetown from the lifelong residents of DC then a great way is to play games at a location that is not Metro accessible.
Capitol One/Verizon/MCI stinks when the Hoyas stink. No doubt about it. However, it's is a great venue when the team is playing well. No one really cares about 7,000 to 9,000 people when the Hoyas play a weak OOC schedule. Likewise, 10,000 to 13,000 for lower tier BE games is a fine experience ... and near sell outs are great experiences.
It's not just cramming in more seats -- there's parking, there's concessions, there's good seats for season ticketholders -- and I think most on-campus arenas have some sort of luxury box situation to generate revenue. McDonough has the footprint and the amenities of a HS gym or a 1950s small Catholic university gym. I like the idea of playing the first couple of cupcakes at McDonough as sort of follow-ons to Midnight Madness (please bring that back!) ... but I don't think it will ever make sense for Georgetown to attempt to generate larger crowds of visitors on campus. It's a terrible location for an arena of any size.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jan 28, 2022 10:11:42 GMT -5
I don't think it can be done ... there's no parking and little to no real estate available. That giant parking lot that some remember by McDonough is gone. It's a pain to park in Georgetown to go out to dinner ... the idea of what 3,000 or more non-students getting up there for a game 20 times a year is insane. Also, if you want to disconnect Georgetown from the lifelong residents of DC then a great way is to play games at a location that is not Metro accessible. Capitol One/Verizon/MCI stinks when the Hoyas stink. No doubt about it. However, it's is a great venue when the team is playing well. No one really cares about 7,000 to 9,000 people when the Hoyas play a weak OOC schedule. Likewise, 10,000 to 13,000 for lower tier BE games is a fine experience ... and near sell outs are great experiences. It's not just cramming in more seats -- there's parking, there's concessions, there's good seats for season ticketholders -- and I think most on-campus arenas have some sort of luxury box situation to generate revenue. McDonough has the footprint and the amenities of a HS gym or a 1950s small Catholic university gym. I like the idea of playing the first couple of cupcakes at McDonough as sort of follow-ons to Midnight Madness (please bring that back!) ... but I don't think it will ever make sense for Georgetown to attempt to generate larger crowds of visitors on campus. It's a terrible location for an arena of any size. Agree. Time to put this subject to rest. Maybe make some major renovation to accommodate 5,000 and move the early OOC cupcake games (and maybe some BE games like Creighton/DePaul/Butler) to McDonough but that's it. A 5,000 seat gym would allow for maybe some big donor seating as well as bringing more students to the games. The big BE (and Syracuse) games should be played a Cap One. We all know what Cap One feels like when we are good and we are playing our BE opponents in meaningful games.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Jan 28, 2022 10:16:22 GMT -5
I think if the school is going to consider this, they need to do it right and actually completely renovate the entire facility, and most likely add another tier of seating (basically raise the roof). The facility now does not have any of the amenities that you would expect in a modern on campus arena. I completely agree that having a bunch of games on campus would do a lot to help the program and the support they get from the students. That renovation would allow the school to use the facility for more than just basketball games. It could be a back up location for graduations when it rains and other significant events on campus (concerts and other large speaking events) where they really don't have another venue with enough interior capacity. I don't see how they can do it "on the cheap", so it will take a significant fundraising effort, which the school is very capable of if they decided to make this a priority. If they can raise the money, then the biggest challenge is going to be getting approval from the neighborhood groups and figuring out the parking and extra traffic issues. These are all solvable problems if this was a priority for the school, but I just don't think it is that important to them right now. Is parking and traffic really solvable? I don’t see it, and it’s a big problem. I would imagine the only solution for the parking and traffic issue is to shuttle/bus the people into the arena/games from some remote location off campus, maybe over in Roslyn or something fairly close like that. There is no room on campus to add more parking and even if they could buy property right near the campus (which I don't think is an option right now) it would be so expensive that turning it into a parking lot would not make sense. I think it is highly unlikely they could make this happen now, and it would take years of planning, fundraising and needing various local approvals. If they did decide they wanted to make this happen, they would need to start the process soon, and you might see something accomplished in 10 years at best. I just don't think it is a priority for the school now.
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Post by hoyaphan on Jan 28, 2022 10:47:13 GMT -5
I’ve seen Verizon center rocking for butler (remeber copeands 3) and Creighton (McBuckets L)
Maybe I’m in the minority but I really don’t care for a 5k on campus arena . I just want to win
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Post by HometownHoya on Jan 28, 2022 11:09:00 GMT -5
Can you imagine the smell of 5,000 kenner hot dogs!?
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Jan 28, 2022 11:53:57 GMT -5
I think the move is to do the simplest renovations we can to McDonough to get more people in the building and create a better atmosphere (that will also look cool on tv). It would be good for the women's team as well. People who envision demolishing McD and building a shiny new arena on that land (or putting it where Yates is), I think there are too many significant obstacles for that to ever happen.
But I do think we could find creative ways to pack more people into McDonough without major renovation. I'm not nearly as researched on this as others, but my assumption is that if we're not dramatically altering the outside of the building or adding parking, and if we're not expanding capacity beyond a certain point, it'll be a much easier process.
Forget about suites, or expansive food and drink options, or other amenities. We'll have those for the big games, which we'll still play downtown. For on-campus games, just try to pack as many fans (especially students) in as possible, create a fun environment for the players and students, and something that seems loud and energetic on tv. Since most people who interact with the program do so by seeing it on tv, I think a loud and energetic small gym would give off a much better vibe than a mostly empty and quiet NBA building.
One "outside the box" idea I've had for a while is that the court should not be centered in the gym. In most arenas, obviously, the court is in the center and seats are laid out symmetrically around it. But if your capacity is limited, I think you could move the court toward one side of the gym so the majority of fans are facing the hard camera. I think if you pulled it off correctly you could make it look like we've got 8 or 9K people in the building when we'd really only have 4-5K.
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Post by KenteKrazies on Jan 28, 2022 12:46:51 GMT -5
I think the move is to do the simplest renovations we can to McDonough to get more people in the building and create a better atmosphere (that will also look cool on tv). It would be good for the women's team as well. People who envision demolishing McD and building a shiny new arena on that land (or putting it where Yates is), I think there are too many significant obstacles for that to ever happen. But I do think we could find creative ways to pack more people into McDonough without major renovation. I'm not nearly as researched on this as others, but my assumption is that if we're not dramatically altering the outside of the building or adding parking, and if we're not expanding capacity beyond a certain point, it'll be a much easier process. Forget about suites, or expansive food and drink options, or other amenities. We'll have those for the big games, which we'll still play downtown. For on-campus games, just try to pack as many fans (especially students) in as possible, create a fun environment for the players and students, and something that seems loud and energetic on tv. Since most people who interact with the program do so by seeing it on tv, I think a loud and energetic small gym would give off a much better vibe than a mostly empty and quiet NBA building. One "outside the box" idea I've had for a while is that the court should not be centered in the gym. In most arenas, obviously, the court is in the center and seats are laid out symmetrically around it. But if your capacity is limited, I think you could move the court toward one side of the gym so the majority of fans are facing the hard camera. I think if you pulled it off correctly you could make it look like we've got 8 or 9K people in the building when we'd really only have 4-5K.t Really like this idea. For how small the square footage of the Arena part of McDonough is, it does have a fairly high ceiling. If you put one side of stands on the East side of the court and keep the TV Box as is, you could probably make a very exciting atmosphere and have it look good on TV. A similar success could possible be achieved if you rotated the court 90 degrees and then had 1 large stand on the north side of the court (though this would require creating a location for the TV cameras on the south side of the Arena. Also, what is the formal Big East home arena capacity requirement? Have seen 8,000 thrown out before but Villanova only hosts 6,501 at the Pavilion.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Jan 28, 2022 12:48:50 GMT -5
I find it funny some people are not fans of the on campus idea even if it is only for a couple games few even show up for anyway esp late nights during the week but this is a college program... funny. I sadly doubt this happens as it requires a certain ambition that I do not see in the admin/program and when the ship is eventually turned around I am sure attendance will bounce back, as it is all about winning let's be real, they would just continue using Cap One as "it's fine, this is fine"
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boxout05
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Posts: 573
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Post by boxout05 on Jan 28, 2022 13:32:25 GMT -5
A complete McD overhaul likely remains a pipe dream, but I like the idea of asymmetric seating. I don't know how much renovation would need to be done or if it'd require local govt approval, but if something can be accomplished relatively cheaply and without the neighborhood's red tape (*the real hurdle*) then I think that's a first step. 1.) If we're doing this for weeknight OOC games, that'd have been AU, Longwood, UMBC, and Howard this year. Last year it would have been UMBC, Navy, & Coppin St. 2.) You don't need 3,000 parking spaces when you weren't even drawing 3000 to CapOne. Besides, the idea is to get more students to attend. 3.) Offer a supplement to the season tix package for the hundreds (dozens?) of diehards who'd be interested in going. 4.) Instruct the GUTS shuttles going to Dupont and Rosslyn to let on anyone with game tix. 5.) Don't think you can do anything about booze in the arena, but that's what Dixie's, Tombs, and Bulldog Tavern are for. Plus you can park food trucks outside and create an app for ordering/serving.
*on edit* pretty sure the Big East did away with the seating requirement for home arenas a few years ago.
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metaphor
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by metaphor on Jan 28, 2022 13:49:43 GMT -5
I think the move is to do the simplest renovations we can to McDonough to get more people in the building and create a better atmosphere (that will also look cool on tv). It would be good for the women's team as well. People who envision demolishing McD and building a shiny new arena on that land (or putting it where Yates is), I think there are too many significant obstacles for that to ever happen. But I do think we could find creative ways to pack more people into McDonough without major renovation. I'm not nearly as researched on this as others, but my assumption is that if we're not dramatically altering the outside of the building or adding parking, and if we're not expanding capacity beyond a certain point, it'll be a much easier process. Forget about suites, or expansive food and drink options, or other amenities. We'll have those for the big games, which we'll still play downtown. For on-campus games, just try to pack as many fans (especially students) in as possible, create a fun environment for the players and students, and something that seems loud and energetic on tv. Since most people who interact with the program do so by seeing it on tv, I think a loud and energetic small gym would give off a much better vibe than a mostly empty and quiet NBA building. One "outside the box" idea I've had for a while is that the court should not be centered in the gym. In most arenas, obviously, the court is in the center and seats are laid out symmetrically around it. But if your capacity is limited, I think you could move the court toward one side of the gym so the majority of fans are facing the hard camera. I think if you pulled it off correctly you could make it look like we've got 8 or 9K people in the building when we'd really only have 4-5K.t Really like this idea. For how small the square footage of the Arena part of McDonough is, it does have a fairly high ceiling. If you put one side of stands on the East side of the court and keep the TV Box as is, you could probably make a very exciting atmosphere and have it look good on TV. A similar success could possible be achieved if you rotated the court 90 degrees and then had 1 large stand on the north side of the court (though this would require creating a location for the TV cameras on the south side of the Arena. Also, what is the formal Big East home arena capacity requirement? Have seen 8,000 thrown out before but Villanova only hosts 6,501 at the Pavilion. The original concept for expanding McDonough was to turn the court East to West and take advantage of the highest point in the building's ceiling (the ends). I believe estimates at the time projected this would increase capacity from somewhere between 6 to 8 thousand. If the arena is only going to hold 6,000 parking is not a major issue as most of the fans will probably be students (a good thing). You will likely get a number of folks coming from the Georgetown area. And if the games are on weekends some of the underground parking will be available. And as someone suggested, the GUTS buses could be free to ticket holders. If it is a retrofit in the existing building, the Georgetown residents do not have the same ability to prevent construction. The biggest obstacle is money and making this a priority. But if DeGoia wants this it can happen.
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boxout05
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 573
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Post by boxout05 on Jan 28, 2022 14:22:23 GMT -5
If it is a retrofit in the existing building, the Georgetown residents do not have the same ability to prevent construction. The biggest obstacle is money and making this a priority. But if DeGoia wants this it can happen. I've heard conflicting opinions on this. I was under the impression the key may be whether there is a material/significant change to the use cases. If we kept the exterior walls and turned the inside into a chemical plant, the neighborhood would get a say. If we tweaked it to host 5000 off-campus attendees for nightly seminars, the neighborhood would get a say. I presume we'd be ok if it was a baskteball practice gym that occassionally hosted games before/after rennovations, but appreciate any insight from lawyers or those who've worked with the university. Also, even if we could complete the rennovations withouth neighborhood approval, does that poison negotiations for the next Campus Plan?
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jan 28, 2022 14:48:31 GMT -5
Really like this idea. For how small the square footage of the Arena part of McDonough is, it does have a fairly high ceiling. If you put one side of stands on the East side of the court and keep the TV Box as is, you could probably make a very exciting atmosphere and have it look good on TV. A similar success could possible be achieved if you rotated the court 90 degrees and then had 1 large stand on the north side of the court (though this would require creating a location for the TV cameras on the south side of the Arena. Also, what is the formal Big East home arena capacity requirement? Have seen 8,000 thrown out before but Villanova only hosts 6,501 at the Pavilion. The original concept for expanding McDonough was to turn the court East to West and take advantage of the highest point in the building's ceiling (the ends). I believe estimates at the time projected this would increase capacity from somewhere between 6 to 8 thousand. If the arena is only going to hold 6,000 parking is not a major issue as most of the fans will probably be students (a good thing). You will likely get a number of folks coming from the Georgetown area. And if the games are on weekends some of the underground parking will be available. And as someone suggested, the GUTS buses could be free to ticket holders. If it is a retrofit in the existing building, the Georgetown residents do not have the same ability to prevent construction. The biggest obstacle is money and making this a priority. But if DeGoia wants this it can happen. You could create a hell of a good home court advantage this way and create great on-campus entertainment for students that are starved for it. Put kegs outside and dig down and make it a pit. It also gives you pricing power. Right now there is no real incentive for season tickets. Add 500 or 1000 "premier" packages that would include these tickets and you would have something. I think it should be for every OOC against and every Big East game on weekdays. Who cares if you can get slightly more people into Verizon when the rent is a killer and the environment is a home court advantage killer? I would take 5K on campus vs. 9K showing up at Verizon every day of the week.
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