EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,962
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 2, 2017 11:53:17 GMT -5
Shouldn't that be the case for everyone? I personally don't feel Mulmore has been the catalyst to this run, I feel it's more about Govan stepping up his play offensively.. This is because you don't know point guard play!!! HMMM. Govan couldn't step up if he didn't get the ball from his point guard DUHHHHHHHHH!!! It's easy wake up!!! The 1st basket of last game was a screen and roll with Peak and Govan.. Peak was doubled, he kicked it to Govan for a wide open jumper.. What role did Mulmore play in this basket?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 2, 2017 13:22:42 GMT -5
I appreciate glide's enthusiasm for point guards, but I agree with EtomicB that the case is being oversold here. I have no problem with Mulmore starting - we shouldn't break something if it's not fixed. That said, while Mulmore has had some nice plays, I don't think he's the main reason we are doing better either.
I don't dispute that having an amazing point guard would greatly improve our team. But so would an amazing player at nearly any position on our team!
Just because Mulmore *might* be better than Mosely (not sure I would say that's true, but it's arguable) doesn't mean that he's the reason we are doing better. Mulmore does a lot of things that counterbalance the good things he does, including fouls and turnovers. Let's look at the last three games:
Creighton: Mulmore had 3 turnovers, 1 foul, and only scored 2 points off 1-2 shooting. 3 assists. @ Butler: Mulmore had 3 turnovers, and 4 fouls, 4 points, and 1-2 on FGs. 1 assist. @depaul: Mulmore had 3 turnovers, 3 points from FTs, and no FGs or fouls. 3 assists.
9 turnovers in three games is pretty bad, and certainly negates some of the positive things he does. And when he's fouling 4 times, not only does he undermine his ability to remain in the game, but he's also spotting the other team FTs if they occur in the bonus.
So even if Mulmore is better than Mosely, to act like he's the answer and solution to our problems at PG is simply misleading. And yes, I know there are plenty of "non-tangibles" one can consider, but the fact is if you showed Mulmore's stat line to anybody blindly, they wouldn't be impressed.
All that said, I have no problem starting Mulmore. I do think he brings things to the table Mosely doesn't (most notably speed), and we've been winning, so let's not mess with things. But, if we had a quick guard who shot better who wasn't a pure point (think of Jason Clark), that player would easily be playing over Mulmore or Mosely. Since we don't have that, Mulmore/Mosely are the only way to go.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 2, 2017 15:12:49 GMT -5
I think the need for a point is obvious. Mulmore is growing into his role and plays with intelligence. One small example: calling the timeout when he was trapped. Does it solve rebounding woes? Not by itself, but a good pg will help insure good shots are taken that makes the rebounds come more easily. Mulmore has helped us win the past three games -- well enough to give us the edge to win conference games, despite his mistakes. I am looking forward to next year when pg is a position of strength rather than weakness. Waters is just what we need. And in confident in the development of Mulmore and Mosely. SAY THIS AGAIN!!!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 2, 2017 15:19:02 GMT -5
I appreciate glide's enthusiasm for point guards, but I agree with EtomicB that the case is being oversold here. I have no problem with Mulmore starting - we shouldn't break something if it's not fixed. That said, while Mulmore has had some nice plays, I don't think he's the main reason we are doing better either. I don't dispute that having an amazing point guard would greatly improve our team. But so would an amazing player at nearly any position on our team! Just because Mulmore *might* be better than Mosely (not sure I would say that's true, but it's arguable) doesn't mean that he's the reason we are doing better. Mulmore does a lot of things that counterbalance the good things he does, including fouls and turnovers. Let's look at the last three games: Creighton: Mulmore had 3 turnovers, 1 foul, and only scored 2 points off 1-2 shooting. 3 assists. @ Butler: Mulmore had 3 turnovers, and 4 fouls, 4 points, and 1-2 on FGs. 1 assist. @depaul: Mulmore had 3 turnovers, 3 points from FTs, and no FGs or fouls. 3 assists. 9 turnovers in three games is pretty bad, and certainly negates some of the positive things he does. And when he's fouling 4 times, not only does he undermine his ability to remain in the game, but he's also spotting the other team FTs if they occur in the bonus. So even if Mulmore is better than Mosely, to act like he's the answer and solution to our problems at PG is simply misleading. And yes, I know there are plenty of "non-tangibles" one can consider, but the fact is if you showed Mulmore's stat line to anybody blindly, they wouldn't be impressed. All that said, I have no problem starting Mulmore. I do think he brings things to the table Mosely doesn't (most notably speed), and we've been winning, so let's not mess with things. But, if we had a quick guard who shot better who wasn't a pure point (think of Jason Clark), that player would easily be playing over Mulmore or Mosely. Since we don't have that, Mulmore/Mosely are the only way to go. You sound confused! See, the thing is it's not about stats it's about fluidity of the offense and getting the ball where it needs to go. Our biggest problem was clock management and decision making at the guard position for a few years. When you guys REALLY understand the game of basketball and point guard play come back and holler at me because right now you're confused! A TRUE POINT GUARD IS THE ANSWER TO WINNING GAMES ON A CONSISTENT BASIS. I NEVER SAID MULMORE WAS BETTER THAN MOSELY. JUST WISER AT THIS POSITION!!! IF YOU TURN THE BALL OVER GET IT BACK! MULMORE'S TURNOVERS WERE NOT DURING CRUCIAL SITUATIONS!!! WAKE UP! IN BASKETBALL YOU WILL TURN THE BALL OVER!!! SMH I THOUGHT YOU KNEW THIS!!! A POINT GUARD'S JOB IS TO GET THE BALL TO HIS TEAMMATES AND TO CONTROL THE TEMPO OF A GAME. NO IF'S!!!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 2, 2017 15:20:16 GMT -5
This is because you don't know point guard play!!! HMMM. Govan couldn't step up if he didn't get the ball from his point guard DUHHHHHHHHH!!! It's easy wake up!!! The 1st basket of last game was a screen and roll with Peak and Govan.. Peak was doubled, he kicked it to Govan for a wide open jumper.. What role did Mulmore play in this basket? You're sounding more suspect! When he's on the block. LEARN THE GAME THEN COME BACK AND TALK TO ME!!!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 2, 2017 15:20:59 GMT -5
Advice: If you don't what you're writing Shut up pls. Thx
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 2, 2017 15:24:39 GMT -5
Mulmore is no PG, but someone has to dribble the ball up. He can't shoot, dribble in traffic or create for his teammates. He gives effort and is quick, I like that. Some of the dumbest stuff I've heard. Mulmore is no point guard but someone has to dribble the ball up. Duh, that was a point guard man. SMFH! He's knocked down some open shots when he's needed too. Mulmore has dribbled in traffic and created for his teammates WTF games are you watching. Some of you need to learn the game of basketball!!! Really!!! at least educate yourself before you write in here.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 2, 2017 17:26:48 GMT -5
You sound confused! See, the thing is it's not about stats it's about fluidity of the offense and getting the ball where it needs to go. Our biggest problem was clock management and decision making at the guard position for a few years. No, I'm not confused, just realistic. It's not about the stats? Okay. Well, the stats are essentially a breakdown of wins and losses, so yes, the stats do matter. As I've said, I don't disagree with you in the following way: we have not had a great point guard in recent years. Having a good or great point guard would certainly be a huge asset for this team, no doubt. And I am hoping that's what Waters brings next year. When you guys REALLY understand the game of basketball and point guard play come back and holler at me because right now you're confused! A TRUE POINT GUARD IS THE ANSWER TO WINNING GAMES ON A CONSISTENT BASIS. I NEVER SAID MULMORE WAS BETTER THAN MOSELY. JUST WISER AT THIS POSITION!!! IF YOU TURN THE BALL OVER GET IT BACK! MULMORE'S TURNOVERS WERE NOT DURING CRUCIAL SITUATIONS!!! WAKE UP! IN BASKETBALL YOU WILL TURN THE BALL OVER!!! SMH I THOUGHT YOU KNEW THIS!!! A POINT GUARD'S JOB IS TO GET THE BALL TO HIS TEAMMATES AND TO CONTROL THE TEMPO OF A GAME. NO IF'S!!! Yes, in basketball you have turnovers, but I don't understand any metric under which 9 turnovers over 3 games is a good thing. If you turn it over, get it back? That's actually why Mulmore accumulates a lot of his fouls. And his turnovers aren't during crucial situations? Every situation in the game is important. Mulmore's 9 turnovers over these three games meant that Georgetown, as a team, did not take 9 shots it otherwise would have taken - three in each game. Given that the games have been fairly close, how is that not a big deal? Let's look at Mulmore's turnovers: Creighton: 1. Mulmore turns it over at 6:17 in the first half, but luckily, Peak gets a steal. 2. Mulmore turns it over at 17:42 in the second half, but luckily, Peak gets a steal again. 3. Mulmore turns it over at 9:41 in the second half, and Creighton scores 2. Butler: 1. Mulmore turns it over at 0:38 in the first half. Kelan Martin misses a three, Kaleb rebounds, but Peak misses. 2. Mulmore turns it over at 12:13 in the second half. Pryor and Govan proceed to quickly foul, eventually leading to a Butler layup after the TV timeout. Butler +2. 3. Mulmore turns it over at 2:26 in the second half. Butler misses a three and a layup. Eventually Govan gets a 3. Still, Mulmore's turnover allowed 2 shots on the basket. We were fortunate they did not go in. DePaul: 1. Mulmore turns it over at 8:52 in the first half. Leading to a Govan Foul and two DePaul missed FTs. Again, we get lucky that DePaul couldn't hit their FTs. 2. Mulmore turns it over at 16:27 in the second half, but is saved by DePaul turning it over 15 seconds later. 3. Mulmore turns it over at 4:33 in the second half, but DePaul misses a layup. To sum it up: 3 of the 9 turnovers were followed by the opponent turning it back over to us. 2 of the 9 turnovers led to opponent baskets. The remaining 4 turnovers led to: two missed threes (and one which had a layup off an offensive rebound), a missed layup, and fouls leading to two missed FTs. So, of the 9 turnovers, we essentially gave up 9 chances to take a shot, and 6 led to opponent shots. Now, in this circumstance, it only led to two made shots, but that's partially luck and partially bad shooting by our opponents. This is why turnovers are so important, regardless of whether you are a point guard or not. Last note, I understand you have a lot of enthusiasm for the team and point guards, especially, but calling everyone you disagree with confused or telling them to wakeup isn't the best tactic. A true point guard would know that.
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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 2, 2017 18:09:04 GMT -5
Advice: If you don't what you're writing Shut up pls. Thx
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lb25
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 112
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Post by lb25 on Feb 3, 2017 9:53:13 GMT -5
The Princeton offense doesn't require a dominate PG. The problem is the offense needs to be adjusted
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 3, 2017 12:38:05 GMT -5
Funny how many things we find to argue about in the midst of our first 3-game winning streak in more than a year.
We need whatever any of our guys can give us to win. Mulmore is getting better, his teammates are getting more used to him, and also with Jagan. Let's hope we keep improving, 'cuz we will need to in order to keep winning.
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wolveribe
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 376
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Post by wolveribe on Feb 3, 2017 13:12:03 GMT -5
In conference play, Mulmore has an ORtg of 93 and a DRtg of 107.5, I would be curious to hear how the team is better with him on the floor. Im not anti-Mulmore, but I do prefer Mosely. Mulmore is shooting poorly, turning the ball over a ton, and not playing defense.
Its worked the past 3 game, so I wouldn't make any changes, but I think the last 3 games were won because Peak/Pryor/Govan stepped up their games. Im not sure if I can attribute any of that to Mulmore.
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lda05816
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 606
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Post by lda05816 on Feb 3, 2017 13:15:40 GMT -5
The impact of Mulmore on the 3 game winning streak can be debated (although his last 3 games have been some of his worst ORTG of the year). My eyes tell me that Mulmore is a much better play-maker than a guy like Tre but the numbers don't necessarily show that. Mulmore and Tre have the same exact assist rate and Mulmore actually has a worse turnover rate. Mulmore has improved his Assist rate in conference but his turnover rate has increased as well. I think Mulmore has had a positive effect lately but it's not the biggest reason we've won 3 straight. I still think he's going to continue to improve though and him and Jagan should get all of the minutes at PG.
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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 3, 2017 14:10:38 GMT -5
Mulmore and Moseley are both great players and will be even better next year adding Waters as another backcourt mate.
A large part of this run has been limiting Tre's numbers. It has to be difficult for both coach and player to come to that conclusion but we've been much better limiting our PG rotation to the guys that have true PG skills (aka passing).
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 3, 2017 14:16:00 GMT -5
The Princeton offense doesn't require a dominate PG. The problem is the offense needs to be adjusted OH BOY HERE WE GO AGAIN!!! I WISH THESE PEOPLE SAYING THESE THINGS REALLY KNEW THE GAME OF BASKETBALL!!! IT'S THE GTOWN OFFENSE DINGBATE AND THE HOYAS AS ANY OTHER TEAM NEEDS A POINT GUARD!!! WHEN OUR GUARDS WEREN'T PLAYING WELL WE WERE LOSING!!! WAKE UP!!! SMFH!!!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 3, 2017 14:16:43 GMT -5
The Princeton offense doesn't require a dominate PG. The problem is the offense needs to be adjusted The problem is YOU not knowing the game!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 3, 2017 14:20:01 GMT -5
You sound confused! See, the thing is it's not about stats it's about fluidity of the offense and getting the ball where it needs to go. Our biggest problem was clock management and decision making at the guard position for a few years. No, I'm not confused, just realistic. It's not about the stats? Okay. Well, the stats are essentially a breakdown of wins and losses, so yes, the stats do matter. As I've said, I don't disagree with you in the following way: we have not had a great point guard in recent years. Having a good or great point guard would certainly be a huge asset for this team, no doubt. And I am hoping that's what Waters brings next year. When you guys REALLY understand the game of basketball and point guard play come back and holler at me because right now you're confused! A TRUE POINT GUARD IS THE ANSWER TO WINNING GAMES ON A CONSISTENT BASIS. I NEVER SAID MULMORE WAS BETTER THAN MOSELY. JUST WISER AT THIS POSITION!!! IF YOU TURN THE BALL OVER GET IT BACK! MULMORE'S TURNOVERS WERE NOT DURING CRUCIAL SITUATIONS!!! WAKE UP! IN BASKETBALL YOU WILL TURN THE BALL OVER!!! SMH I THOUGHT YOU KNEW THIS!!! A POINT GUARD'S JOB IS TO GET THE BALL TO HIS TEAMMATES AND TO CONTROL THE TEMPO OF A GAME. NO IF'S!!! Yes, in basketball you have turnovers, but I don't understand any metric under which 9 turnovers over 3 games is a good thing. If you turn it over, get it back? That's actually why Mulmore accumulates a lot of his fouls. And his turnovers aren't during crucial situations? Every situation in the game is important. Mulmore's 9 turnovers over these three games meant that Georgetown, as a team, did not take 9 shots it otherwise would have taken - three in each game. Given that the games have been fairly close, how is that not a big deal? Let's look at Mulmore's turnovers: Creighton: 1. Mulmore turns it over at 6:17 in the first half, but luckily, Peak gets a steal. 2. Mulmore turns it over at 17:42 in the second half, but luckily, Peak gets a steal again. 3. Mulmore turns it over at 9:41 in the second half, and Creighton scores 2. Butler: 1. Mulmore turns it over at 0:38 in the first half. Kelan Martin misses a three, Kaleb rebounds, but Peak misses. 2. Mulmore turns it over at 12:13 in the second half. Pryor and Govan proceed to quickly foul, eventually leading to a Butler layup after the TV timeout. Butler +2. 3. Mulmore turns it over at 2:26 in the second half. Butler misses a three and a layup. Eventually Govan gets a 3. Still, Mulmore's turnover allowed 2 shots on the basket. We were fortunate they did not go in. DePaul: 1. Mulmore turns it over at 8:52 in the first half. Leading to a Govan Foul and two DePaul missed FTs. Again, we get lucky that DePaul couldn't hit their FTs. 2. Mulmore turns it over at 16:27 in the second half, but is saved by DePaul turning it over 15 seconds later. 3. Mulmore turns it over at 4:33 in the second half, but DePaul misses a layup. To sum it up: 3 of the 9 turnovers were followed by the opponent turning it back over to us. 2 of the 9 turnovers led to opponent baskets. The remaining 4 turnovers led to: two missed threes (and one which had a layup off an offensive rebound), a missed layup, and fouls leading to two missed FTs. So, of the 9 turnovers, we essentially gave up 9 chances to take a shot, and 6 led to opponent shots. Now, in this circumstance, it only led to two made shots, but that's partially luck and partially bad shooting by our opponents. This is why turnovers are so important, regardless of whether you are a point guard or not. Last note, I understand you have a lot of enthusiasm for the team and point guards, especially, but calling everyone you disagree with confused or telling them to wakeup isn't the best tactic. A true point guard would know that. DO YOU REALLY KNOW THE GAME OF BASKETBALL??? YOU ARE CONFUSED AND I DIDN'T TELL EVERYONE JUST THE ONES THAT ARE!!! WAKE UP!!! DAMN YOU PEOPLE ARE FUKN SICK!!! OVERALL MULMORE IS GETTING THE JOB DONE. THOSE STATS DON'T SHOW UP WHEN HE MAKES THE OFFENSE MOVE QUICKER. CUT, BOUNCE AND LOB PASSES. AGAIN, HIS TURNOVERS DID NOT LOSE GAMES OR DIDN'T PUT THE HOYAS IN JEOPARDY OF LOSING A GAME!!! SAVE YOUR BS STATS!!! SMFH LEARN THE DAMN GAME!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 3, 2017 14:21:02 GMT -5
if you don't what you're talking about stop and listen or read to comprehend ask questions. don't assume. sheesh. I see what some of these people say about other's. WOW!!! If you don't know the game Shut up.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 3, 2017 14:24:16 GMT -5
The impact of Mulmore on the 3 game winning streak can be debated (although his last 3 games have been some of his worst ORTG of the year). My eyes tell me that Mulmore is a much better play-maker than a guy like Tre but the numbers don't necessarily show that. Mulmore and Tre have the same exact assist rate and Mulmore actually has a worse turnover rate. Mulmore has improved his Assist rate in conference but his turnover rate has increased as well. I think Mulmore has had a positive effect lately but it's not the biggest reason we've won 3 straight. I still think he's going to continue to improve though and him and Jagan should get all of the minutes at PG. If Mulmore started 3 games and they won isn't this telling that the offense has been running smoothly??? Yes, he's a playmaker and he'll attack during crucial moments of a game. I never said it was the biggest reason the Hoyas won. Where'd you get that it? Probably assuming again. Why do you people always fugging assume. Just ask!!! He's a difference maker!!!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 3, 2017 14:27:01 GMT -5
In conference play, Mulmore has an ORtg of 93 and a DRtg of 107.5, I would be curious to hear how the team is better with him on the floor. Im not anti-Mulmore, but I do prefer Mosely. Mulmore is shooting poorly, turning the ball over a ton, and not playing defense. Its worked the past 3 game, so I wouldn't make any changes, but I think the last 3 games were won because Peak/Pryor/Govan stepped up their games. Im not sure if I can attribute any of that to Mulmore. You can't win without your point guard. Yes, Govan/Peak and Pryor stepped up but your point guard controls the tempo of a game!!! WAKE UP! smh if you're watching the games closely you'll see Mulmore's decision making during crucial momements are good. He does a lot of the little things people don't notice but folks will notice the negative. smh .. #differencemakerMulmore
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