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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2017 13:34:25 GMT -5
PG play is definitely getting better. Mulmore is growing on me slowly. He needs to be more instinctive on defense and stay in front of his man. Mosely is the guy I'm highest on. He has a chance to be a special player when his tenure at Georgetown is over. If he can improve his mid range and 3pt. shot to compliment his drive to the rim and touch floater, he will be a huge weapon. My man!!! Yes, more instinctive on defense. When I saw his man go by him, I was like, "sit your a&S down arms out and slide your darn feet!!! He's too quick to not stay in front of his man.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2017 13:35:13 GMT -5
JT3 played both of them together for quite the stretch. It was clearly mostly due to foul trouble but I didn't mind. It actually looked very good and could be a hint of what is coming next year. We scored 83 with both LJ and Pryor having average to below average games for themselves. I attribute that quite a bit to the improved PG play. Was niceeeeeeee!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2017 13:36:25 GMT -5
I love the title of this thread in that it doesn't have the word "point" in it.. The team needed guards Mosely & Mulmore to play better and they have the last 2 games.. I debated with folks last week that JT3 should scrap the "hot hand" theory & pick someone but Tre being out forced his hand.. I hope he stays with this rotation even after Tre gets back.. Point guard/guard then. LOL!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2017 13:38:31 GMT -5
In addition to everything you all see: I really like what I'm seeing from both Mosely and Mulmore. Probably the biggest thing that I see is that they both share the game well, with each other and the rest of the team. As they become more confident, I believe it will become contagious and help the other guys on the floor. This is really important, because this team needs to recover more quickly from mistakes (not to mention losses). Just watching the rest of the team listen to these guys (especially Mosely) is very encouraging. I really love Mosely. I too think he has a chance to be a really special player. I haven't been this high on a freshman since Otto. Tre minutes, when he comes back need to dwindle. I think he messes the guard rotation up because he doesn't go to the hole and make good decisions on the ball.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2017 13:42:14 GMT -5
Mosely is now playing like a stud. Interesting that with one guard out of the rotation...neither JM or Mosely have to constantly look over their shoulder and can get into the flow of the game. I love it when a player playing the same position has to look over his/her shoulder for playing time. This means both are competitive and will only get better. As a matter of fact I'd be playing those against each other in practice. I've done this before. I've put my best two guards against each other in practice and it works wonders. They know each other's game and play well off of each other. It was Mulmore who led the charge at the point guard position vs. St. John's last night. Mosely came back in and played well. Kudos ya'll. Pryor is slowly gaining his confidence back. I think play level of the Big East was a shock to Pryor. Hopefully's he's awakened now. LOL!
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 10, 2017 13:42:40 GMT -5
Have you ever seen Jessie try to play defense or move his feet? Yes. Have you ever seen Hayes try to play defense and stay with his man on a pick and role? Or in any situation where he has to move with any deliberate speed? I am not saying that Govan is a great defender, or even a better defender than Hayes. But, I really don't think Hayes is far ahead of Govan much, if at all, on defense. While Hayes does rebound a little better, it's mostly on offensive rebounds. Hayes offensive rebound rate is 12.3 compared to Govan's 6.9, whereas Hayes' defensive rebound rate is 22.5, and Govan's is 22.4. Also, Govan's offense is so significantly better than Hayes that it's not even close. Hayes' offensive efficiency right now is 91.1, whereas Govan's is 109.7. So while you might give up a little rebounding with Govan, it's a big plus on offense. Also, I suspect Hayes' higher offensive rebounding rate is him getting a bunch of his own misses. For what it's worth, Agau's offensive efficiency is 108.0, and Derrickson's is 123.8. Thus, on offense, any lineup of big guys without Hayes is significantly better.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2017 13:43:06 GMT -5
I do wonder what will happen once Tre is back? He's good enough to earn back PT but if both Mulmore and Mosely continue to play well, you don't want to disrupt that. Maybe more 2 guard sets where Tre can play off-ball in a shooter role. You're so there!!!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2017 13:44:44 GMT -5
Once Mosely got used to the speed, you could the talent come out. Now, he seems more comfortable with his jump shots and hasn't been afraid to attack the basket. The attempted dunk was awesome even if he missed, but it came against a team that actually has shot blockers down low. Adding to that, he had a nice little floater in the lane. He still turns the ball over too much, but he's a freshman trying to play at a fast pace....he won't be an all american, but he's going to be a very productive 4 year player. I love the guy, that defense is going to make a major impact and he should be able to play alongside Waters next year. SAY IT AGAIN!!! HAHA!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jan 10, 2017 13:46:22 GMT -5
Hayes takes up space and makes shooter's coming into the paint think twice. But our guards have to stop letting opponents guards come inside the lane so easily. Don't let them come into your lane period.
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,014
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Post by dense on Jan 10, 2017 14:27:32 GMT -5
Tide will complete turn when Hayes gets back to converting in close like last year, if we can get that, we can string some wins together. Unless Hayes can get the baby hook to go in, he's really useless on the floor and should not play. He showed that at the beginning of last night. Govan is clearly a better player, and I think you could easily argue in favor of Govan and Agau taking nearly all of Hayes minutes, especially given that he's also slow on defense rotations. Govan is a worse defender than Hayes. Hayes at least makes himself big and forces them to finish over. Thats why Hayes season +/- is so good. there are ways to combat the pick and roll problem. hayes should auto switch every situation not hedge and recover if the big can shoot
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,329
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Post by vv83 on Jan 10, 2017 14:54:35 GMT -5
Unless Hayes can get the baby hook to go in, he's really useless on the floor and should not play. He showed that at the beginning of last night. Govan is clearly a better player, and I think you could easily argue in favor of Govan and Agau taking nearly all of Hayes minutes, especially given that he's also slow on defense rotations. Govan is a worse defender than Hayes. Hayes at least makes himself big and forces them to finish over. Thats why Hayes season +/- is so good. there are ways to combat the pick and roll problem. hayes should auto switch every situation not hedge and recover if the big can shoot Agree completely . Hayes is a mediocre defender on his best days. But Govan is flat out bad. If you remember- last year, when hayes was out hurt : in our big east games without hayes we gave up an average about 15 points per game more than we did in our BE games with Hayes. Average points allowed is a raw and limited stat (does not account for opponents, pace, etc) - but we lost all those games without hayes, and the defense was especially awful Our best lineup right now is: Mosely, Peak, Pryor, Derrickson, Agau. If Agau can control fouling a little, I would love to see him get 20-25 minutes a game. Maybe 10 subbing in for Marcus, and 10-15 at Center with Marcus at the 4.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 10, 2017 15:04:36 GMT -5
Mourning & Mutombo Mosley & Mulmore
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 10, 2017 15:05:51 GMT -5
Have you ever seen Jessie try to play defense or move his feet? Yes. Have you ever seen Hayes try to play defense and stay with his man on a pick and role? Or in any situation where he has to move with any deliberate speed? I am not saying that Govan is a great defender, or even a better defender than Hayes. But, I really don't think Hayes is far ahead of Govan much, if at all, on defense. While Hayes does rebound a little better, it's mostly on offensive rebounds. Hayes offensive rebound rate is 12.3 compared to Govan's 6.9, whereas Hayes' defensive rebound rate is 22.5, and Govan's is 22.4. Also, Govan's offense is so significantly better than Hayes that it's not even close. Hayes' offensive efficiency right now is 91.1, whereas Govan's is 109.7. So while you might give up a little rebounding with Govan, it's a big plus on offense. Also, I suspect Hayes' higher offensive rebounding rate is him getting a bunch of his own misses. For what it's worth, Agau's offensive efficiency is 108.0, and Derrickson's is 123.8. Thus, on offense, any lineup of big guys without Hayes is significantly better. So being a better defender and rebounder makes him useless when our biggest problem is our D and rebounding? Okay glad we cleared that up. Maybe learn to read between the lines instead of just regurgitating stats...Hayes has a defensive presence, Govan has the opposite. He invites everybody he plays to take it aggressively at the rim. Jessie is weak, Brad is not. This is college basketball, you need strength to be effective, it's really not that complicated.
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seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,670
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Post by seaweed on Jan 10, 2017 15:09:53 GMT -5
Feeling the tide starting to turn at the point, agree with that 100% though it will take time to see if it is enough. Mulmore has creativity and vision despite a shaky handle and some dubious decision making and Mosely is starting to meet the vision and speed requirements at this level. Most positions are progressing frankly and I can't recall being more optimistic about a team that hasn't gotten there yet. I hear you and agree with most of what you've said, but I don't agree with the shaky ball handling. He handles the rock pretty good and makes good decisions. I might have overstated the handle issue, but I worry about his high dribble and what looks like a fair bit of (so far uncalled) palming. Either way, he is definitely settling in and adjusting to playing in the hardest conference in the country after a couple of years playing much lesser comp.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 10, 2017 15:23:02 GMT -5
So being a better defender and rebounder makes him useless when our biggest problem is our D and rebounding? Okay glad we cleared that up. Maybe learn to read between the lines instead of just regurgitating stats...Hayes has a defensive presence, Govan has the opposite. He invites everybody he plays to take it aggressively at the rim. Jessie is weak, Brad is not. This is college basketball, you need strength to be effective, it's really not that complicated. rock, maybe your reading between the lines is causing you to miss my point. Maybe I overstated it. Hayes isn't useless. I exaggerated and I apologize for that (and mostly to Hayes if he ever reads this, I shouldn't have said that). I am not saying Govan is a better defender. Hayes is probably better at post defense and rim protection, but the minute he's got to leave the paint and go out farther, he's not a better defender. He is absolutely horrible on pick and roll defense. And yes, I actually think his offense is a major problem. When he cannot hit the baby hook (like at the beginning of the last game), you are basically playing 4 on 5 offense, which clogs things up. Whenever Hayes comes out to the perimeter opposing offenses sag on him, which makes sense since he cannot hit anything but the baby hook (though good for him in taking a chance on the jumper at the end of last night). And turning the ball over is also a major factor in bad defense, since turnovers lead to easy offense for the opposition. Hayes has the worst turnover rate of anybody on our team aside from Mosely and Campbell. So yes, he might rebound better, but if gives it back in turnovers, it's not helping. Govan, on the other hand, is a threat anywhere on the floor. He can hit threes. He can shoot jumpers. He can dunk, he can get layups. He's definitely not perfect. And in a situation where you need to protect the rim, I might go with Hayes over Govan or Agau, but I think 75%+ of the time, Govan or Agau are better choices. Edit: As an aside, I actually think trying to post up Hayes actually leads to turnovers, as well, because our players are not that effective at passing in to him. In the Butler game, I counted at least three entry passes that were turnovers. This isn't Hayes' fault, and the same thing happens when they try to get it in to Govan, I just think it's something to think about.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 10, 2017 15:25:35 GMT -5
So being a better defender and rebounder makes him useless when our biggest problem is our D and rebounding? Okay glad we cleared that up. Maybe learn to read between the lines instead of just regurgitating stats...Hayes has a defensive presence, Govan has the opposite. He invites everybody he plays to take it aggressively at the rim. Jessie is weak, Brad is not. This is college basketball, you need strength to be effective, it's really not that complicated. rock, maybe your reading between the lines is causing you to miss my point. Maybe I overstated it. Hayes isn't useless. I exaggerated and I apologize for that (and mostly to Hayes if he ever reads this, I shouldn't have said that). I am not saying Govan is a better defender. Hayes is probably better at post defense and rim protection, but the minute he's got to leave the paint and go out farther, he's not a better defender. He is absolutely horrible on pick and roll defense. And yes, I actually think his offense is a major problem. When he cannot hit the baby hook (like at the beginning of the last game), you are basically playing 4 on 5 offense, which clogs things up. Whenever Hayes comes out to the perimeter opposing offenses sag on him, which makes sense since he cannot hit anything but the baby hook (though good for him in taking a chance on the jumper at the end of last night). And turning the ball over is also a major factor in bad defense, since turnovers lead to easy offense for the opposition. Hayes has the worst turnover rate of anybody on our team aside from Mosely and Campbell. So yes, he might rebound better, but if gives it back in turnovers, it's not helping. Govan, on the other hand, is a threat anywhere on the floor. He can hit threes. He can shoot jumpers. He can dunk, he can get layups. Okay - I was just responding to your assertion that he is useless, which was wholly inaccurate. Jessie is the softest big I've ever seen in the paint, it is what it is....Jessie's offense isn't a plus until he's at least average on the defensive end, but after 1.5 years we are not close to that point yet. And FWIW, just because Jessie has a jumper doesn't make him a threat from anywhere on the court. He's too weak to score in the paint consistently, thoug I will admit he usually has the right idea. You just can't ask him or expect him to execute in the post like a person of his stature should be able to.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 10, 2017 15:28:02 GMT -5
Okay - I was just responding to your assertion that he is useless, which was wholly inaccurate. Jessie is the softest big I've ever seen in the paint, it is what it is....Jessie's offense isn't a plus until he's at least average on the defensive end, but after 1.5 years we are not close to that point yet. Yeah, that was a dumb statement on my part - I'll own it. I agree Govan should be a better defender than he is. He's a lot more mobile than Hayes, and he's only slightly shorter. As you said, Hayes is stronger, though, which helps. Of course, ideally, I'd like all of them to play better defense!
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2017 15:28:05 GMT -5
Unless Hayes can get the baby hook to go in, he's really useless on the floor and should not play. He showed that at the beginning of last night. Govan is clearly a better player, and I think you could easily argue in favor of Govan and Agau taking nearly all of Hayes minutes, especially given that he's also slow on defense rotations. Govan is a worse defender than Hayes. Hayes at least makes himself big and forces them to finish over. Thats why Hayes season +/- is so good. there are ways to combat the pick and roll problem. hayes should auto switch every situation not hedge and recover if the big can shoot Good Lord no! One of our biggest problems on defense stems from giving the opponent 2 automatic mismatches every time they screen up high. We have to work much harder on beating or fighting through the screen to avoid that as much as possible. Both of our bigs have some significant deficiencies. Until and unless that changes, we should keep doing what we do - the minutes are dependent on matchups as well as who is playing well in a particular game or even half.
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wolveribe
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 376
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Post by wolveribe on Jan 10, 2017 15:33:35 GMT -5
We have two problem on defense. All of our perimeter plays (sans Mosely) let their guy by them way too often and we offer zero rim protection from our big guys. I think every team we've played has put Govan and Hayes in pick and roll situations successfully.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 10, 2017 15:57:42 GMT -5
Mourning & Mutombo Mosley & Mulmore M & M can make our season sweeter (c'mon, somebody had to say it!).
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