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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 5, 2017 15:11:36 GMT -5
Okay I waited almost 24 hours... We can't win this game or any of our games (including DePaul) without a real point guard. This league is too tough. And by a real point guard I don't mean one who can shoot, dribble penetrate, pass, and play defense. I mean someone who can LEAD this team. Someone who can calm us down when things get crazy and who the players can look to in the last 5 minutes. And most important someone who can make all his teammates look better. Seriously folks, ask yourself, who on this team can do that? The MD game was a warning. And our last 3 games have been the sad result. I can't recall when we have have a team with such lightweight PG's. Say what you will about Wright and Starks and DSR but at least you knew they were the guys in charge on the floor. In almost every one of our games this year, over the last 7-8 minutes, I get this sinking feeling that somehow we will lose. I don't see the guy who will step up and carry us the rest of the way. And sadly, since I don't think a freshman recruit will be able to fill this role I see our problems lasting at least 2-3 more years. I don't know, there have been freshman PG's at various places who could lead pretty much from day one, although that is far, far from common. If Tremont has the ability and the moxie many claim, he could be that type. As for this year, it has been a concern all season and nothing has helped diminish it. A hot night from 2 or 3 guys can overshadow the PG issues on a particular night, but those issues certainly are a huge factor so far.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 5, 2017 15:57:59 GMT -5
Okay I waited almost 24 hours... We can't win this game or any of our games (including DePaul) without a real point guard. This league is too tough. And by a real point guard I don't mean one who can shoot, dribble penetrate, pass, and play defense. I mean someone who can LEAD this team. Someone who can calm us down when things get crazy and who the players can look to in the last 5 minutes. And most important someone who can make all his teammates look better. Seriously folks, ask yourself, who on this team can do that? The MD game was a warning. And our last 3 games have been the sad result. I can't recall when we have have a team with such lightweight PG's. Say what you will about Wright and Starks and DSR but at least you knew they were the guys in charge on the floor. In almost every one of our games this year, over the last 7-8 minutes, I get this sinking feeling that somehow we will lose. I don't see the guy who will step up and carry us the rest of the way. And sadly, since I don't think a freshman recruit will be able to fill this role I see our problems lasting at least 2-3 more years. We let the 141st best offense in the country score 1.13 points per possession on us. Xavier and Marquetee are much better offenses, but they still scored more than 1.1 points per possession on us. We've played atrocious defense in conference. A point guard isn't going to fix that.
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 5, 2017 15:58:26 GMT -5
To interject some optimism, we've had a pretty tough schedule. Most versions of Gtown teams have lost these 4 games in these 4 situations. I believe kenpom predicted we'd lose them all. Obviously, losing the games you are supposed to lose doesnt count for much, but we do have, i think, 5 of our next 6 at home. We'll see. If we beat Butler, all hope is not lost. If not, I worry we are on our way to spiraling to 4-14, especially since it would be hard to get up for SJU at 0-4 on Monday. That's also cause we are just not good. It shouldn't be too difficult for KenPom to predict that a bad team will lose. I'm sure Coppin St. is slated to lose a bunch of games to middling teams according to KenPom too. I know you were trying to be optimistic, but this season is on the "where hope goes to die" trail trodden by last season. It's very depressing. Understood. But, I dont think we are at the point of last year yet. I thought we played pretty well against Xavier. I think we can beat Butler.
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 5, 2017 16:01:31 GMT -5
Okay I waited almost 24 hours... We can't win this game or any of our games (including DePaul) without a real point guard. This league is too tough. And by a real point guard I don't mean one who can shoot, dribble penetrate, pass, and play defense. I mean someone who can LEAD this team. Someone who can calm us down when things get crazy and who the players can look to in the last 5 minutes. And most important someone who can make all his teammates look better. Seriously folks, ask yourself, who on this team can do that? The MD game was a warning. And our last 3 games have been the sad result. I can't recall when we have have a team with such lightweight PG's. Say what you will about Wright and Starks and DSR but at least you knew they were the guys in charge on the floor. In almost every one of our games this year, over the last 7-8 minutes, I get this sinking feeling that somehow we will lose. I don't see the guy who will step up and carry us the rest of the way. And sadly, since I don't think a freshman recruit will be able to fill this role I see our problems lasting at least 2-3 more years. We let the 141st best offense in the country score 1.15 points per possession on us. Xavier and Marquetee are much better offenses, but they still scored more than 1.1 points per possession on us. We've played atrocious defense in conference. A point guard isn't going to fix that. Yeah, people are going to be sadly disappointed if they think a missing PG is the reason we've not put things together the past 5 years.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 5, 2017 16:18:48 GMT -5
Okay I waited almost 24 hours... We can't win this game or any of our games (including DePaul) without a real point guard. This league is too tough. And by a real point guard I don't mean one who can shoot, dribble penetrate, pass, and play defense. I mean someone who can LEAD this team. Someone who can calm us down when things get crazy and who the players can look to in the last 5 minutes. And most important someone who can make all his teammates look better. Seriously folks, ask yourself, who on this team can do that? The MD game was a warning. And our last 3 games have been the sad result. I can't recall when we have have a team with such lightweight PG's. Say what you will about Wright and Starks and DSR but at least you knew they were the guys in charge on the floor. In almost every one of our games this year, over the last 7-8 minutes, I get this sinking feeling that somehow we will lose. I don't see the guy who will step up and carry us the rest of the way. And sadly, since I don't think a freshman recruit will be able to fill this role I see our problems lasting at least 2-3 more years. We let the 141st best offense in the country score 1.13 points per possession on us. Xavier and Marquetee are much better offenses, but they still scored more than 1.1 points per possession on us. We've played atrocious defense in conference. A point guard isn't going to fix that. The sad part is that we played very good defense for the first 18 minutes.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 5, 2017 16:29:19 GMT -5
The sad part is that we played very good defense for the first 18 minutes. I also don't understand why we used the zone defense in the first half and beginning of second half fairly effectively, and then abruptly switched to man. At least to my eyes, it looked like they had a tougher time against the zone since they couldn't shoot well. Once we went to man, we became more porous leading to some of Providence's dunks and easy baskets. I am not saying we would have won the game if we stayed zone - the change just didn't seem to make sense to me.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 5, 2017 17:21:24 GMT -5
That's also cause we are just not good. It shouldn't be too difficult for KenPom to predict that a bad team will lose. I'm sure Coppin St. is slated to lose a bunch of games to middling teams according to KenPom too. I know you were trying to be optimistic, but this season is on the "where hope goes to die" trail trodden by last season. It's very depressing. Understood. But, I dont think we are at the point of last year yet. I thought we played pretty well against Xavier. I think we can beat Butler. The sad part is that if we had played as well against either Provy or Marquette as we did against X, we probably win both (or at least one). But the "the schedule is hard" point is a fair one. I believe KenPom, even after these three games (and a projected loss to Butler on Saturday), has us at 8-10. 8-10 ain't exactly something to aspire to! But it does mean that we've had tough ones to start and are expected to go 8-6 to close.
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OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,387
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Post by OldHoyafan on Jan 5, 2017 17:29:10 GMT -5
I have to agree that the lack of a concerted defensive effort more so than the lack of a high scoring offense is at the bottom of the Hoya woes. The Hoyas were able to win under III with an offense that had three of its 5 starters named Jabril, Hopkins and Lubick. They won because they played a cohesive helping defense for most of the 40 minutes of basketball. There was communication between the players on defense. Now you get small glimpses of that, but mostly you get a defense that gives up more points because seven players can not press and play fast for 40 minutes. Some of the current players may never realize the intricacies of III''s switching man-to-man defense or his weak side help zone defense. So what do you do? Go back to the contracted playing roster of seven players and slow the game down, or do you keep doing what you are doing with hopes that you can eventually get nine players who can play 40 minutes of cohesive defense regardless of the configuration of the players on the court. I agree with MCI, that his recruiting has locked him in somewhat, so I am not sure what the answer is.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,372
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 5, 2017 17:54:00 GMT -5
I have to agree that the lack of a concerted defensive effort more so than the lack of a high scoring offense is at the bottom of the Hoya woes. The Hoyas were able to win under III with an offense that had three of its 5 starters named Jabril, Hopkins and Lubick. They won because they played a cohesive helping defense for most of the 40 minutes of basketball. There was communication between the players on defense. Now you get small glimpses of that, but mostly you get a defense that gives up more points because seven players can not press and play fast for 40 minutes. Some of the current players may never realize the intricacies of III''s switching man-to-man defense or his weak side help zone defense. So what do you do? Go back to the contracted playing roster of seven players and slow the game down, or do you keep doing what you are doing with hopes that you can eventually get nine players who can play 40 minutes of cohesive defense regardless of the configuration of the players on the court. I agree with MCI, that his recruiting has locked him in somewhat, so I am not sure what the answer is. Agree. The problem is that III was forced to put together a team on the fly because of recruiting misses (the need for guards in the form of Pryor and Mulmore) while also trying to change to a more uptempo offensive system as so many of us had wished for. The meshing of the parts isn't working, especially with no one in the middle defensively.
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Post by grandmahoya on Jan 5, 2017 18:50:44 GMT -5
I agree with the posters that want more minutes for Mourning. If Govan picks up early fouls, I think III should put in Mourning instead of Bradley, who has regressed. Trey could be a spark for the team. I also agree that LJ might be good at the point. His BB IQ is good enough to lead this team, and heaven knows we need a leader. My starting line-up: Peak at PG, Pryor Guard, Derrickson F, Agau F and Govan C. Go Hoyas, beat the Bulldogs.
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McBricks
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
What Rocks.
Posts: 1,173
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Post by McBricks on Jan 5, 2017 19:33:37 GMT -5
At last year's game at Providence, Trey was one of the major factors in the comeback we had (still lost). He had 10 points (4-6 from the field with a 3 pointer) and 5 boards in 19 minutes of play. Hayes was out with a broken hand. He has to get some minutes moving forward. Bradley needs to sit.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 5, 2017 19:44:40 GMT -5
The sad part is that we played very good defense for the first 18 minutes. I also don't understand why we used the zone defense in the first half and beginning of second half fairly effectively, and then abruptly switched to man. At least to my eyes, it looked like they had a tougher time against the zone since they couldn't shoot well. Once we went to man, we became more porous leading to some of Providence's dunks and easy baskets. I am not saying we would have won the game if we stayed zone - the change just didn't seem to make sense to me. May have related to Lindsey knocking down 3 or 4 virtually uncontested 3's when Provy started finding the soft spots. But I agree that we should at least have played more of it as we started spiraling down.
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,900
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Jan 5, 2017 20:08:51 GMT -5
I think we need to minimize as much as possible Govan being on the floor when we are on defense. It may mean a lot of rapid substitutions and (gasp!) using Mourning, but that is where we are defensively.
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Post by augustusfinknottle on Jan 5, 2017 20:26:01 GMT -5
Show of hands....Who cares?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 5, 2017 20:53:49 GMT -5
About the rest of the season? Me.
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bamahoya11
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,831
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Post by bamahoya11 on Jan 5, 2017 21:02:39 GMT -5
This game is a good opportunity to do something positive at home against a disciplined, physical basketball team. To win this game we will have to play our best game of the season. Nonetheless, the tools are there. If Marcus continues on his hot streak and LJ and Pryor play to their potential, I think we will be in this one late. Butler also isn't one to just blow a lot of folks out. They slowly outwork you, play clean defense, and pull ahead late.
Butler, though, is one of my favorite teams to watch. I have a strong admiration for how Holtmann develops taken and develops a team. He's one of the most underrated coaches in the country in my opinion.
I'll be there. Go Hoyas.
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hoyarad
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 521
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Post by hoyarad on Jan 5, 2017 22:23:57 GMT -5
Okay I waited almost 24 hours... We can't win this game or any of our games (including DePaul) without a real point guard. This league is too tough. And by a real point guard I don't mean one who can shoot, dribble penetrate, pass, and play defense. I mean someone who can LEAD this team. Someone who can calm us down when things get crazy and who the players can look to in the last 5 minutes. And most important someone who can make all his teammates look better. Seriously folks, ask yourself, who on this team can do that? The MD game was a warning. And our last 3 games have been the sad result. I can't recall when we have have a team with such lightweight PG's. Say what you will about Wright and Starks and DSR but at least you knew they were the guys in charge on the floor. In almost every one of our games this year, over the last 7-8 minutes, I get this sinking feeling that somehow we will lose. I don't see the guy who will step up and carry us the rest of the way. And sadly, since I don't think a freshman recruit will be able to fill this role I see our problems lasting at least 2-3 more years. I don't know, there have been freshman PG's at various places who could lead pretty much from day one, although that is far, far from common. If Tremont has the ability and the moxie many claim, he could be that type. As for this year, it has been a concern all season and nothing has helped diminish it. A hot night from 2 or 3 guys can overshadow the PG issues on a particular night, but those issues certainly are a huge factor so far. Tremont is 5'10 right? Or am I confused?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 5, 2017 22:54:21 GMT -5
You may be confused, but not about that😉.
Are you suggesting that he can't be a leader because he is 5'10"?
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 6, 2017 9:49:11 GMT -5
big chance MUST WIN hustle for FORTY MINUTES OR MOREE meanary way up JUST DO IT TEMPUS FUGITLIKENOW go hoyas will be there MEANARY UP
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 6, 2017 9:50:09 GMT -5
akoy coming around TOUGHEST HOYA SO FAR and DOES have offense too YUP
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