calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 1, 2017 8:33:06 GMT -5
Agau looked completely overmatched as a starter and offers none of the offensive threat that MD does. He did seem to fill in nicely off the bench yesterday. I kept wondering what took the coach so long to bring him into the game to avoid the fouls piling up for the other bigs. As for Reggie and Mourning, I am tired of beating the drum. Each has defensive liabilities but as Frazier notes above, who doesn't on this team, not named Kaleb or LJ. I would like to see Reggie get an opportunity off of the bench to fill in for MD or Pryor when they are in foul trouble.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jan 1, 2017 9:53:33 GMT -5
You all may kill me on this one but I'd like to see Mourning get some minutes at the PF position. His defense is soft but he puts up points and would save Derrickson and Agau down the stretch. Yeah, I wonder what exactly is going on with Mourning. Is a weapon we are saving and developing? |
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 1, 2017 10:10:19 GMT -5
You all may kill me on this one but I'd like to see Mourning get some minutes at the PF position. His defense is soft but he puts up points and would save Derrickson and Agau down the stretch. Yeah, I wonder what exactly is going on with Mourning. Is a weapon we are saving and developing? No, quite the opposite. One of the knocks on Coach Thompson is that he gives up on certain players and they rarely get back in the regular lineup as a result--think Vee Sanford, Stephen Domingo, and more recently, Reggie Cameron. Trey Mourning is in that situation as a junior. Had he been given 7-10 minutes a game in the various December MEAC games, he could have been a legitimate option. Instead, he played 13 minutes in six games--literally, the under two minute group along with Muresan and Hines. Now, more than likely, Mourning won't see action in any games other than DePaul or St. John's, if that. All those fans who figured Akoy Agau as a hidden gem in the lineup are watching someone who looks like the next Moses Ayegba right now. The continued lack of development for Agau and Campbell (who is not far removed from Cameron and Mourning's seats on the bench) speaks poorly on this staff. |
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This Just In
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Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Jan 1, 2017 10:32:59 GMT -5
Against Marquette we lost LJ to injury and had to go to  . Today we lose Pryor to fouls and have to go to ? I know Ike was not looking good this year but who would you rather have coming off the bench? If Ike was still here to get minutes he would be bound to have at least one break out game. Also he was one of the few players on the team that can play/finish above the rim |
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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 1, 2017 10:45:59 GMT -5
The fact that, at the midway point of this season, people are pointing to a big game or two in a previous year as evidence that Ike would have been a good option this year is telling.
I wish he were here. He would add depth. And maybe he would have snapped out of it in terms of shooting. But that is wishful thinking. Right now, even with Agau's recent struggles, he would be my third option at the four based on performance. He is worse offensively than Derrickson, significantly, and at best a wash with Agau. He is worse defensively and on the boards than both. He is also a significantly worse passer than Agau.
As to Mourning, if he were a legitimate option -- a better option at the four or five than what is there -- he would play. You don't need to play your third string guy to keep your first string guy fresh. That's what the second string guy is for. And the same with Reggie. If Kaleb is a better overall option at the three and you already have two options at the four, he simply doesn't get meaningful minutes.
We are playing ten guys meaningful minutes! You simply can't play more guys than that without limiting the number of minutes your best options play unnecessarily and hurt your team's chances to win.
I don't disagree that lack of development is an indictment of the staff, either in terms of recruitment assessment or practice improvement. But Mourning was always seen as a project. So it's not really fair to criticize that one. There are always going to be misses.....That's inevitable. It's when you miss at the same position for two or three straight years (as we have at the one) that you have issues.
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the_way
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The Illest
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Post by the_way on Jan 1, 2017 12:15:53 GMT -5
This. Pryor and Peak are our primary options. The rest of the guys are pretty much role players. The effort is there. Guys are trying their best. Probably accurate. Although Govan and Derrickson were ranked too highly to be satisfied with being "role players". Rankings are irrelevant once they get on campus. Everyone has a clean slate and has to earn their keep. Derrickson has some potential. But again, potential and reality are two different things. At this point, it is pretty much Pryor and Peak. |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 1, 2017 12:42:03 GMT -5
I don't disagree; I thought you were suggesting that none of our other guys were never expected to be more than role players.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 1, 2017 13:33:29 GMT -5
Probably accurate. Although Govan and Derrickson were ranked too highly to be satisfied with being "role players". That's why I started this thread. Yes, Cope was terrible this year but he has shown more in the past than Jesse or Derickson ever will I just keep remembering that Marquette game last year where he was awesome. I can't see either of them scoring 32 points in a BE game this year. Really? It's not as though Isaac scored more than 30 more than once in his career at Georgetown. Jessie had a game last year in which he scored 27 and has had 2 20 point games this season. Marcus is still not 100% and I'm not at all surprised when he goes for 15. Isaac was shooting 28% from 2 and 0% from 3 this year. If you could bottle the 32 point Isaac and use him every game, I agree. Over the course of a season at this point? I'd take both Marcus and Jessie over Isaac every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I think Isaac made a great decision for himself. Something is clearly awry with him. I don't know if it's physical or emotional or what. But him taking the transfer year seems like the right choice to get things straightened out. I think we all wish that he'd stayed and that he'd become the type of player he looks like he can be. It's just not working for him for whatever reasons. I really hope he takes the year, turns a bunch of heads wherever he ends up and gets himself back on the trajectory that ends with him realizing the future that he wants for himself. Best of luck to him wherever he goes. |
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dense
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Post by dense on Jan 1, 2017 16:55:31 GMT -5
Kansas board seems to think Copeland is coming there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 17:21:49 GMT -5
Kansas missed on a lot of their top targets this cycle... Wouldn't be all that surprising considering the Graham connection but he would only play half a season with him...
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jan 1, 2017 20:58:33 GMT -5
That's why I started this thread. Yes, Cope was terrible this year but he has shown more in the past than Jesse or Derickson ever will I just keep remembering that Marquette game last year where he was awesome. I can't see either of them scoring 32 points in a BE game this year. Really? It's not as though Isaac scored more than 30 more than once in his career at Georgetown. Jessie had a game last year in which he scored 27 and has had 2 20 point games this season. Marcus is still not 100% and I'm not at all surprised when he goes for 15. Isaac was shooting 28% from 2 and 0% from 3 this year. If you could bottle the 32 point Isaac and use him every game, I agree. Over the course of a season at this point? I'd take both Marcus and Jessie over Isaac every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I think Isaac made a great decision for himself. Something is clearly awry with him. I don't know if it's physical or emotional or what. But him taking the transfer year seems like the right choice to get things straightened out. I think we all wish that he'd stayed and that he'd become the type of player he looks like he can be. It's just not working for him for whatever reasons. I really hope he takes the year, turns a bunch of heads wherever he ends up and gets himself back on the trajectory that ends with him realizing the future that he wants for himself. Best of luck to him wherever he goes. I agree that we could never assume that the good Ike would ever return. I am just trying to point out that Ike's upside is much greater than that of MD and also that those who didn't think that losing Ike was any big deal might want to rethink. Our first two BE games were lost, in part, because (as was pointed out when Ike left), when LJ or Pryor are not on the floor we are seriously offensively challenged. |
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jan 1, 2017 23:58:46 GMT -5
After feeling really sad to see Ike leave, I have come to the conclusion that he needed a new environment where he can maybe thrive. I think the situation where Coach was leaning toward those who were producing placed even more pressure on Cope which may have thrown him off his game. It happens.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 2, 2017 7:45:31 GMT -5
For me, the answer is NO. If he did not want to be a Hoya and accept whatever role the staff has for him, he needed to move on. I really do not think his could-not-hit-the-broad-side-of-a-barn offense and matador defense would have helped these last two games.
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3xhoya
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Post by 3xhoya on Jan 2, 2017 10:01:14 GMT -5
Really? It's not as though Isaac scored more than 30 more than once in his career at Georgetown. Jessie had a game last year in which he scored 27 and has had 2 20 point games this season. Marcus is still not 100% and I'm not at all surprised when he goes for 15. Isaac was shooting 28% from 2 and 0% from 3 this year. If you could bottle the 32 point Isaac and use him every game, I agree. Over the course of a season at this point? I'd take both Marcus and Jessie over Isaac every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I think Isaac made a great decision for himself. Something is clearly awry with him. I don't know if it's physical or emotional or what. But him taking the transfer year seems like the right choice to get things straightened out. I think we all wish that he'd stayed and that he'd become the type of player he looks like he can be. It's just not working for him for whatever reasons. I really hope he takes the year, turns a bunch of heads wherever he ends up and gets himself back on the trajectory that ends with him realizing the future that he wants for himself. Best of luck to him wherever he goes. I agree that we could never assume that the good Ike would ever return. I am just trying to point out that Ike's upside is much greater than that of MD and also that those who didn't think that losing Ike was any big deal might want to rethink. Our first two BE games were lost, in part, because (as was pointed out when Ike left), when LJ or Pryor are not on the floor we are seriously offensively challenged. I think most here are asking why you think a player who was shooting 28% overall, 0% from 3 with a poor handle and no passing insight would help an offensively challenged team. This doesn't even account for lack of rebounding and turnstyle defense. He's an extremely athletic kid and needs the time away from the game to help his development. Can he be what we all wanted ? Maybe, but he needs to put in a lot of work and it wasn't happening this season. |
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wnyhoya
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Post by wnyhoya on Jan 2, 2017 10:36:42 GMT -5
Totally agree with MCI, I miss Paul White, not Isaac Copeland. If anyone really thinks Copeland would help this team other than racking up fouls you're kidding yourself. Sure point to the games his freshman year and the game against MU last year but that's not the same player. He's lost all confidence and sorely regressed. I wish him all the best and hope he finishes his collegiate career out strong somewhere else as he seemed like a really good kid. But, he would not help this team right now. For as poor as Akoy may be offensively he's about on par with Copeland from this year plus he's a better passer, defender and rebounder. And Kaleb brings so much more energy than Ike in defense and rebounding with about the same offensive ability
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jan 2, 2017 11:19:54 GMT -5
I agree that we could never assume that the good Ike would ever return. I am just trying to point out that Ike's upside is much greater than that of MD and also that those who didn't think that losing Ike was any big deal might want to rethink. Our first two BE games were lost, in part, because (as was pointed out when Ike left), when LJ or Pryor are not on the floor we are seriously offensively challenged. I think most here are asking why you think a player who was shooting 28% overall, 0% from 3 with a poor handle and no passing insight would help an offensively challenged team. This doesn't even account for lack of rebounding and turnstyle defense. He's an extremely athletic kid and needs the time away from the game to help his development. Can he be what we all wanted ? Maybe, but he needs to put in a lot of work and it wasn't happening this season. I hear everything you and others are saying. It's just that when LJ and Pryor are unavailable I'd rather have had the good Ike than the good anyone else currently available. Maybe the good Ike was a fluke and would never return but maybe with more pt he would have. I think we all are unaware of what caused a star recruit with his potential to flame out (coaching issues/academic issues/emotional problems/teammate problems/overrated to begin with etc.) and unless we knew what that was this discussion can go on forever. But for this loyal Hoya fan, when LJ gets 2 quick fouls or pulls up lame, I still will wish Ike was available off the bench. |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 2, 2017 11:36:09 GMT -5
I think most here are asking why you think a player who was shooting 28% overall, 0% from 3 with a poor handle and no passing insight would help an offensively challenged team. This doesn't even account for lack of rebounding and turnstyle defense. He's an extremely athletic kid and needs the time away from the game to help his development. Can he be what we all wanted ? Maybe, but he needs to put in a lot of work and it wasn't happening this season. I hear everything you and others are saying. It's just that when LJ and Pryor are unavailable I'd rather have had the good Ike than the good anyone else currently available. I don't think you'd find a single fan/supporter/alum that would disagree with this. I guess the divergence in opinion probably comes when evaluating one's level of optimism at the prospect of "good" Isaac returning any time soon. I think the majority of us really hope Isaac gets back on track and that he becomes the kind of player he hopes to be. For me, I gave up hope of that happening this year. Maybe I'm too pessimistic but he just looked SO unlike the Isaac we have seen. That's why, for him personally, I really like his decision to buy himself a year to work on his game outside of the pressures of a CBB season. I guess (complete speculation) that I feel like that's his best bet for sorting out whatever is going on with him. Maybe your more optimistic view of Isaac is the right one (or the more right one) in that he could round into form sooner than later. I guess we can't know that now but, even though he's moving on, I truly hope he turns out to be the player we all were hoping/expecting he would become. |
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Post by eastcoastteddy58 on Jan 2, 2017 12:18:58 GMT -5
Kansas board seems to think Copeland is coming there. Had a fan show something about Issac looking to get a medical red-shirt for a back injury, does anybody have a cue into what this is all about? |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 2, 2017 12:31:09 GMT -5
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 2, 2017 13:04:53 GMT -5
Kansas board seems to think Copeland is coming there. They also think he just listed every possible decent program that has an open schollie. |
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. Today we lose Pryor to fouls and have to go to 
