blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,759
|
Post by blueandgray on Aug 7, 2016 18:25:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the great updates everyone. Any update on how Paul looked?
|
|
vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,329
|
Post by vv83 on Aug 7, 2016 18:32:13 GMT -5
Amazingly, the key to the game today was Jerome Williams. with him playing center in the first half, the Tombs was able to hold the Tre Kelly/Tyler Cavanaugh "pick and roll" based offense at least a little under control. But after Jerome left at halftime, the Tombs defense could not do anything - they gave up 75 points in the second half! It looked WAY too much like our worst defensive games last year. The other Tombs bigs just could not keep kelly away from the rim without leaving cavanaugh wide open, or without everyone collapsing inside and leaving the other On Point shooters wide open for 3s (which they were hitting at a really high rate) or easy offensive board putbacks. Pryor and Mosely worked hard on D, but they struggled to stay in front of Kelly (who is very quick and has torn up kenner defenses regularly in the past), and their teammates provided very little defensive help. that all being said, I would bet that On Point shot well over 50% from 3 in the second half - a normal shooting half and the Tombs probably would have won fairly easily.
Jerome completely locked down the D boards in the first half, he probably had about a dozen. In the second half, on the rare occasion the tombs stopped the initial On Point shot, they gave up offensive boards at an absurd rate. I honestly think that a 40+ Jerome Williams would be the best 5 man on today's hoyas, Really great to see him play. He was having a blast - laughing and joking around, constantly directing and instructing his teammates, etc. It was easy to see why he has had a pretty successful youth coaching career as part of his post-playing experience.
|
|
MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,426
|
Post by MCIGuy on Aug 7, 2016 18:42:12 GMT -5
Cavanaugh had 24 points in the first half, easily more than he has scored in most KL games. What was great about JYD's defense on that front? Not that it matters for this upcoming season, I'm just curious.
|
|
|
Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Aug 7, 2016 18:51:01 GMT -5
smh
|
|
FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
|
Post by FLHoya on Aug 7, 2016 19:07:40 GMT -5
Cavanaugh had 24 points in the first half, easily more than he has scored in most KL games. What was great about JYD's defense on that front? Not that it matters for this upcoming season, I'm just curious. I wouldn't be shocked if the Kenner League Twitter account mixed up scores. I don't doubt Tyler scored 32--he was the second best player on the court today IMO after Tre Kelly--but I don't think he went 24 in the first and 8 in the second to get there. They were pretty off on Pryor's point total when they were live tweeting too, though again I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up somewhere around 40. But I mean the more direct answer--Tyler Cavanaugh had the outside shot working in the first half after clanking what felt like 4-5 in a row to start.
|
|
vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,329
|
Post by vv83 on Aug 7, 2016 20:10:09 GMT -5
Cavanaugh had 24 points in the first half, easily more than he has scored in most KL games. What was great about JYD's defense on that front? Not that it matters for this upcoming season, I'm just curious. I knew cavanaugh scored a lot in the first half, I did not realize it was that much! The defense did not completely break down in the first half. Jerome let cavanaugh have space for his jumpers, but he kept kelly away from the rim, and that meant that the rest of the D did not have to scramble around to try to get to kelly flying down the lane. So Jerome let cavanaugh score, but protected the rim and gobbled up every defensive board. They gave up 43 first half points, but they still had an 8 point halftime lead Without Jerome in the second half, Kelly completely destroyed the D. Nobody could keep him away from the rim for most of the half, and when someone did manage to challenge him at the rim, it was because they had left their man wide open for a 3 or to hit the offensive boards. It is not easy to give up 75 points in one half of basketball!
|
|
|
Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Aug 8, 2016 7:17:48 GMT -5
One more from JYD!!!
|
|
KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,900
|
Post by KHoyaNYC on Aug 8, 2016 8:00:03 GMT -5
So what is the consensus after KL? Sweet 16 return a possibility? Probability? Seems like from the upbeat reports anything less would be underachieving.
|
|
vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,329
|
Post by vv83 on Aug 8, 2016 8:16:48 GMT -5
So what is the consensus after KL? Sweet 16 return a possibility? Probability? Seems like from the upbeat reports anything less would be underachieving. It will be hard to make any predictions without knowing whether JTIII is, in fact, going to change the offensive playing style. If we do move to an up-tempo, guard-oriented, spread pick and roll, "space and pace" type offense - then we should be a top 25 team, with the potential to reach the second weekend if we don't play a lousy game in the tournament. But if we continue playing through the center handling the ball at the foul line much of the time - we'll be wasting a lot of our talent and would likely be a more borderline NCAA tournament team. All indicators are that we are changing the offensive scheme - but I don't think I'll actually believe it until I see it in a real game!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 8:42:10 GMT -5
So what is the consensus after KL? Sweet 16 return a possibility? Probability? Seems like from the upbeat reports anything less would be underachieving. It will be hard to make any predictions without knowing whether JTIII is, in fact, going to change the offensive playing style. If we do move to an up-tempo, guard-oriented, spread pick and roll, "space and pace" type offense - then we should be a top 25 team, with the potential to reach the second weekend if we don't play a lousy game in the tournament. But if we continue playing through the center handling the ball at the foul line much of the time - we'll be wasting a lot of our talent and would likely be a more borderline NCAA tournament team. All indicators are that we are changing the offensive scheme - but I don't think I'll actually believe it until I see it in a real game! This is common thinking but do you guys remember Josh touching the ball at the top of the key? According to my memory he touched it little to none in that area IMO The makeup of the team controls a lot of these decisions, don't think we had the personnel to play that way last year at all. You can run PNR with DSR all day it's not going to get you much since he doesn't have the speed to turn the corner gets flattened out and you spend time passing side to side rather than getting down hill. 2 years ago when Markel and Dsr were our only real offense after Josh's suspension, we ran pro sets like Horns and some others quite a bit towards the end of the year... Anyways I don't think 3 is going to handcuff his fastest team in years and from what I understand the major focus in the offseason has been to increase conditioning in order to play faster. The players he brought in also backup that thinking as they are athletic and aggressive types.
|
|
|
Post by aleutianhoya on Aug 8, 2016 8:56:37 GMT -5
It will be hard to make any predictions without knowing whether JTIII is, in fact, going to change the offensive playing style. If we do move to an up-tempo, guard-oriented, spread pick and roll, "space and pace" type offense - then we should be a top 25 team, with the potential to reach the second weekend if we don't play a lousy game in the tournament. But if we continue playing through the center handling the ball at the foul line much of the time - we'll be wasting a lot of our talent and would likely be a more borderline NCAA tournament team. All indicators are that we are changing the offensive scheme - but I don't think I'll actually believe it until I see it in a real game! This is common thinking but do you guys remember Josh touching the ball at the top of the key? According to my memory he touched it little to none in that area IMO The makeup of the team controls a lot of these decisions, don't think we had the personnel to play that way last year at all. You can run PNR with DSR all day it's not going to get you much since he doesn't have the speed to turn the corner gets flattened out and you spend time passing side to side rather than getting down hill. 2 years ago when Markel and Dsr were our only real offense after Josh's suspension, we ran pro sets like Horns and some others quite a bit towards the end of the year... Anyways I don't think 3 is going to handcuff his fastest team in years and from what I understand the major focus in the offseason has been to increase conditioning in order top play faster. The players he brought in also backup that thinking as they are athletic and aggressive types. I would simply add that that we are very likely to see our 5s handle the ball early in a set toward the high post. It allows us to subsequently PNR with our big (something I hope both of our 5s are working on) and sets up the PNR on the opposite side with two guards or a guard and a forward (or a straight dribble-drive) by bringing the defensive 5 out of the post. It's a staple of virtually every offense. Very, very few teams just leave their 5 down low for entire sets. So, don't confuse that with having our five with the ball making key decisions -- a Princeton staple. And, not for nothing, I think Jesse can be quite good at the high post, so I would be actually disappointed if we don't incorporate at least a bit of him with the ball there meaningfully.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 9:25:10 GMT -5
This is common thinking but do you guys remember Josh touching the ball at the top of the key? According to my memory he touched it little to none in that area IMO The makeup of the team controls a lot of these decisions, don't think we had the personnel to play that way last year at all. You can run PNR with DSR all day it's not going to get you much since he doesn't have the speed to turn the corner gets flattened out and you spend time passing side to side rather than getting down hill. 2 years ago when Markel and Dsr were our only real offense after Josh's suspension, we ran pro sets like Horns and some others quite a bit towards the end of the year... Anyways I don't think 3 is going to handcuff his fastest team in years and from what I understand the major focus in the offseason has been to increase conditioning in order top play faster. The players he brought in also backup that thinking as they are athletic and aggressive types. I would simply add that that we are very likely to see our 5s handle the ball early in a set toward the high post. It allows us to subsequently PNR with our big (something I hope both of our 5s are working on) and sets up the PNR on the opposite side with two guards or a guard and a forward (or a straight dribble-drive) by bringing the defensive 5 out of the post. It's a staple of virtually every offense. Very, very few teams just leave their 5 down low for entire sets. So, don't confuse that with having our five with the ball making key decisions -- a Princeton staple. And, not for nothing, I think Jesse can be quite good at the high post, so I would be actually disappointed if we don't incorporate at least a bit of him with the ball there meaningfully. I don't mind elevating our bigs it creates driving lanes and with Jessie the opposing Center has to stay attached as you alluded to above. They absolutely need to be stronger with the ball in those scenarios but Mulmore, RP, Jagan, and LJ all have the ability to turn that corner and make the defense react. Yeah it wasn't effective last year but add it to the list because nothing was effective. It's important to note all 3 guys we brought in have the ability to turn the corner, we had 1 guy last year, Peak You can also elevate your bigs to start your PNR. A lot of pro team do this when pressured or when defenses are trying to get the ball out of the guards hand. They bring up the big as a pressure release. Guard passes the ball to the big at the top of the key then goes and gets a hand-off from the big and they start their PNR series there at the top off the key. We do this also although last year it wasn't effective because of the reasons stated above
|
|
lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
|
Post by lichoya68 on Aug 8, 2016 9:35:20 GMT -5
second big east tinal four you and jyd was smiling and teaching the younins how to ball yup rebbies calling out the d he did let cavanough shoot from the outside BUT SLAMMED THE DOOR ON TREY KELLY yup stopped him cold too bad he had a plane to catch HOYA OLD SCHOOL great smile tooooooo
|
|
SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,620
|
Post by SirSaxa on Aug 8, 2016 9:40:05 GMT -5
|
|
EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
|
Post by EasyEd on Aug 8, 2016 10:29:30 GMT -5
We have the offensive tools this year. Success will depend on whether or not our defense is up to the task. And whether we can defend without fouling.
|
|
lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
|
Post by lichoya68 on Aug 8, 2016 10:36:21 GMT -5
defense key BUT have three tough guick new guard defenders VERY QUICK very TOUGH pryor can body up bigs AND smalls go hoyas cant wait T THE HOOP
|
|
|
Post by HometownHoya on Aug 8, 2016 10:55:55 GMT -5
My only concern with the 5 at the top of the key is how weak Govan can be with the ball. He gets stripped way too often. Fortunately we have some great athletes on the wings so maybe it will lead to some circus blocks.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2016 11:13:31 GMT -5
My only concern with the 5 at the top of the key is how weak Govan can be with the ball. He gets stripped way too often. Fortunately we have some great athletes on the wings so maybe it will lead to some circus blocks. Yep... Truth... But to be fair he was weak with the ball on the block 2.. Needs to develop that "Nasty". No reason a kid that big should be that loose with the ball. It's somewhat understandable since he was a Frosh last year but he's a Soph now and needs to play a lot tougher.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,780
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 8, 2016 11:31:11 GMT -5
Kenner's great for making evaluations of skills players have improved and that sort of thing and rating guys on the offensive side of the ball.
Trying to judge defense at all is fairly impossible.
Trying to create season expectations (Sweet Sixteen!? Really?) out of Kenner League -- and one in which players don't even play with each other anymore -- is insane.
|
|
Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
Posts: 5,448
|
Post by Hoyas4Ever on Aug 8, 2016 11:37:40 GMT -5
My only concern with the 5 at the top of the key is how weak Govan can be with the ball. He gets stripped way too often. Fortunately we have some great athletes on the wings so maybe it will lead to some circus blocks. Yep... Truth... But to be fair he was weak with the ball on the block 2.. Needs to develop that "Nasty". No reason a kid that big should be that loose with the ball. It's somewhat understandable since he was a Frosh last year but he's a Soph now and needs to play a lot tougher. Not only a freshman but a young freshman. I believe it was stated a few times that Govan was one of the youngest freshman in the country. Govan still has some physical maturing to do. That's one of the main reasons why I'm very excited Hayes is back. Allows Govan's body, mind and game the opportunity to continuing to develop without hindering a team that's really built to be good from day 1 of the season. Govan's weakness last season were his ability to secure tough rebounds, his hands at times, and the overall physicality of the game. All of those are positives for Hayes. I'm pretty sure Govan will have improved in all of those areas once this upcoming season begins but to what extent? Don't get me wrong Govan's upside is tremendous but we need to allow him to get there while allowing this team to play up to it's full capabilities. Hayes is a great insurance policy for the team and Govan.
|
|