SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,620
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Post by SirSaxa on Jul 20, 2016 7:15:01 GMT -5
Clearly, using the phrase "panties in a bunch" was woefully inadequate. Gosh MCI.... this is bringing back memories of the next NBA HOF hoya big man, Ruben Boumtje Boumtje. Here's what I originally posted that appears to have set you off: Peak did not start last season. Yes, he played a lot of minutes, but he did not start. Doesn't mean he won't start this year, but it sure doesn't mean he will.I stated it is not a foregone conclusion about Peak in the starting lineup. Once again - that doesn't mean he won't start!If JT3 determines LJ plays better after watching a few minutes and not picking up quick fouls, does that mean his entire game has failed to progress? This series of posts is non-sensical. I've already stated Peak is one of, if not our best player. We want him on the floor for as many minutes as possible. He may well start. He may not. He will be one of our leading mpg players either way. I have no idea why that concept is so difficult to comprehend.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Jul 20, 2016 8:22:17 GMT -5
This. You want Peak, arguably as talented as anyone on the team and with as much Hoya playing experience as anyone else, to help set the tone from tipoff. Plus I'm thinking Peak is getting to that point in which he is itching for NBA scouts to notice him and like it or not scouts probably think less of an upperclassmen who comes off the bench. I agree. Unless the tone is "2 fouls in the first 3 minutes", so there should be backup plans just in case. I would love to see wave substitutions this year, like JT Jr. did when he had deep teams. Yeah cause that's a certainty.....
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Jul 20, 2016 8:33:30 GMT -5
Cool. Though once again they don't manage to include one Kaleb highlight despite his output. And they got the month wrong too. Not quite the case...
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 20, 2016 8:52:13 GMT -5
Clearly, using the phrase "panties in a bunch" was woefully inadequate. Gosh MCI.... this is bringing back memories of the next NBA HOF hoya big man, Ruben Boumtje Boumtje. Here's what I originally posted that appears to have set you off: Peak did not start last season. Yes, he played a lot of minutes, but he did not start. Doesn't mean he won't start this year, but it sure doesn't mean he will.I stated it is not a foregone conclusion about Peak in the starting lineup. Once again - that doesn't mean he won't start!If JT3 determines LJ plays better after watching a few minutes and not picking up quick fouls, does that mean his entire game has failed to progress? This series of posts is non-sensical. I've already stated Peak is one of, if not our best player. We want him on the floor for as many minutes as possible. He may well start. He may not. He will be one of our leading mpg players either way. I have no idea why that concept is so difficult to comprehend. You make it seem as if I’m breathing fire over this whole issue. I haven’t engaged in some endless debate with you. I just happened to disagree with a few of the suggestions you made. I can read so I grasped all the glowing things you were saying about Peak. But in the end you nonetheless appeared to lean towards Pryor as being more of a priority in the starting lineup than Peak. That was my interpretation at least. Yes, I realized you weren’t saying that Peak will or should come off the bench. You did however propose a scenario in which Mulmore and Pryor were in the starting five and Peak was not. My initial response? All I wrote was that I found any such suggestion to be laughable. That was it. And that led to some pushback from a few, including your own post which spelled out in further detail your thinking on the matter. Which in turn led me to respond. That’s it. Nothing more.
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SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,620
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Post by SirSaxa on Jul 20, 2016 9:54:08 GMT -5
You make it seem as if I’m breathing fire over this whole issue. I haven’t engaged in some endless debate with you. I just happened to disagree with a few of the suggestions you made. I can read so I grasped all the glowing things you were saying about Peak. But in the end you nonetheless appeared to lean towards Pryor as being more of a priority in the starting lineup than Peak. That was my interpretation at least. Yes, I realized you weren’t saying that Peak will or should come off the bench. You did however propose a scenario in which Mulmore and Pryor were in the starting five and Peak was not. My initial response? All I wrote was that I found any such suggestion to be laughable. That was it. And that led to some pushback from a few, including your own post which spelled out in further detail your thinking on the matter. Which in turn led me to respond. That’s it. Nothing more. OK, I am staring to understand your thinking. I guess it was based on the following I posted earlier? Let's not forget one thing. Peak did not start last season. Yes, he played a lot of minutes, but he did not start. Doesn't mean he won't start this year, but it sure doesn't mean he will. Mulmore and Pryor seem to be likely starters to me - but that is based solely upon what I've read. Could Pryor get minutes at the 2 and the 3? Peak at 2 & 3? My guess at the time, and for the upcoming season - and that's all it is - a guess was as follows: We could have Mulmore, Pryor and Peak all starting because both Pryor and Peak can each play the 2 and the 3. At this early stage, they might even be considered inter-changeable at those two spots (2 & 3). Who would start at the 4 & 5? That's a whole other discussion. There is also the possibility that Peak may not start - and not because he isn't one of our very best ballers. Assuming someone will start the next year because they started the previous year is often a decent assumption, but not always. However, assuming someone who did NOT start the previous season will automatically start the next season is not a given. Let me add this, if GU is to be a great team in 16/17, or even a pretty darn good team, we are going to need a great year from Peak. He showed a tremendous amount of improvement from his frosh year, particularly with his 3 pt shooting. Of the returning players, he has the best chance to be truly dominant. Cope has the physical talent to be a force, but his play has been inconsistent on offense and less than adequate on D. MD has tremendous talent too and kids' games often make their biggest jumps from Frosh to Soph. He has also shown the kind of work ethic needed to be great. KJ is a hard worker, and like Peak and Pryor, can play the 2 & 3. As for the new guys, I like what I read about Mosely as a hard working, smart, likely 4 year contributor. Maybe not a lot of minutes this year. And yes, I am hopeful about Mulmore and Pryor - especially Pryor. But there are no pre-season guarantees for them either. MCI, are we more in line now? I don't think our outlooks are much different. It seems to me there was a lack of communication - either I didn't explain my thoughts well enough the first time, or you misread them. You have often posted insightful comments about our Hoyas. Hey, a question for you. Do you think 3 is going to bounce back from his worst year? Learn from his mistakes? He has a new staff and brought in three new guards to shore up the weakest part of the team. And two of them are older, experienced cats. What are you expecting this year and/or what would you consider a successful season to look like?
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nathanhm
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,041
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Post by nathanhm on Jul 20, 2016 19:59:10 GMT -5
Peak is the only guy who has earned a starting position.
After that I see Mulmore, Pryor, Copeland, Derrickson, White, Agau, Govan, and Hayes fighting for the other 4 starting spots in practice, but all getting 10+ min.
Campbell, Cameron, Johnson, and Mourning seem like situational guys.
Mosley I'm not sure if he's situational or more solidly in the rotation.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,394
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jul 20, 2016 20:10:51 GMT -5
Too many times last year, I felt DSR was unable to get off a shot, or at least a good shot.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Jul 20, 2016 21:05:14 GMT -5
Too many times last year, I felt DSR was unable to get off a shot, or at least a good shot. Really, everytime I pointed out the flaws of DSR you disagreed. Now you are coming clean?
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,331
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Post by tashoya on Jul 20, 2016 22:19:48 GMT -5
Peak is the only guy who has earned a starting position. After that I see Mulmore, Pryor, Copeland, Derrickson, White, Agau, Govan, and Hayes fighting for the other 4 starting spots in practice, but all getting 10+ min. Campbell, Cameron, Johnson, and Mourning seem like situational guys. Mosley I'm not sure if he's situational or more solidly in the rotation. I love the progress LJ made as the season went along last year. Especially defensively. I think he was the most improved player by far. That said, new season, clean slate. Earn it every practice and every game. He's certainly the most favored guy to start. But I hope that the staff makes it clear that it's a (within reason) meritocracy. "What have you done for me lately" should be the catch phrase on the warm up shirts. With this amount of depth and options (assuming everyone is healthy), there's no reason not to play the guys who are playing the best and/or match up best with the opponent on any given day.
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beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,475
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Post by beenaround on Jul 20, 2016 22:47:08 GMT -5
Just my opinion, but I would say there is a zero percent chance Ike does not start.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Jul 20, 2016 22:54:34 GMT -5
Just my opinion, but I would say there is a zero percent chance Ike does not start. What odds are you giving on that and are we talking all season?
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Post by trillesthoya on Jul 20, 2016 23:10:25 GMT -5
Just my opinion, but I would say there is a zero percent chance Ike does not start. Agreed. As much as we want to dance around the issue, this team is Isaac and Peak's now. Short of an absolutely meteoric rise from one of the sophomores there's no way Isaac takes a back seat this year. MD is a stud but not at that point yet.
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beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,475
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Post by beenaround on Jul 20, 2016 23:17:02 GMT -5
Just my opinion, but I would say there is a zero percent chance Ike does not start. What odds are you giving on that and are we talking all season? Hey, if Ike really struggles (a possibility, unfortunately) he could lose his spot during the season. But I absolutely see him a starter, unless he continues to regress and someone takes a leap forward. I doubt anyone on HT feels that Ike played up to his potential last year, and I think most feel he has the highest ceiling.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Jul 20, 2016 23:26:37 GMT -5
What odds are you giving on that and are we talking all season? Hey, if Ike really struggles (a possibility, unfortunately) he could lose his spot during the season. But I absolutely see him a starter, unless he continues to regress and someone takes a leap forward. I doubt anyone on HT feels that Ike played up to his potential last year, and I think most feel he has the highest ceiling. I'm just hoping that all of these players we have coming in are better than Ike. If they are not then I think we are going to be disappointed.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jul 20, 2016 23:49:23 GMT -5
I love the progress LJ made as the season went along last year. Especially defensively. I think he was the most improved player by far. That said, new season, clean slate. Earn it every practice and every game. He's certainly the most favored guy to start. But I hope that the staff makes it clear that it's a (within reason) meritocracy. "What have you done for me lately" should be the catch phrase on the warm up shirts. With this amount of depth and options (assuming everyone is healthy), there's no reason not to play the guys who are playing the best and/or match up best with the opponent on any given day. I agree with you, but if Peak isn't good enough to start this season, we've got big problems (again, good enough to start - that doesn't mean he will, though I think it's very likely).
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Jul 20, 2016 23:58:16 GMT -5
I love the progress LJ made as the season went along last year. Especially defensively. I think he was the most improved player by far. That said, new season, clean slate. Earn it every practice and every game. He's certainly the most favored guy to start. But I hope that the staff makes it clear that it's a (within reason) meritocracy. "What have you done for me lately" should be the catch phrase on the warm up shirts. With this amount of depth and options (assuming everyone is healthy), there's no reason not to play the guys who are playing the best and/or match up best with the opponent on any given day. I agree with you, but if Peak isn't good enough to start this season, we've got big problems (again, good enough to start - that doesn't mean he will, though I think it's very likely). Peak is a star that was held back by our brilliant staff featuring DSR last year to try to hold onto something that clearly didn't work. He's a star that will prove that this year and showed those attributes at the end of last season.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 21, 2016 4:18:34 GMT -5
Just my opinion, but I would say there is a zero percent chance Ike does not start. Zero percent, huh? Hell, I would never say that about anyone, not even Peak whom I feel is the closest thing to a deserved lock. Then again the belief in Copeland has always been strong on this site and Casual Hoya ever since roughly January of 2015. Agreed. As much as we want to dance around the issue, this team is Isaac and Peak's now. Short of an absolutely meteoric rise from one of the sophomores there's no way Isaac takes a back seat this year. MD is a stud but not at that point yet. MD is already a better shooter and a better rebounder and I feel he is more likely to at least play hard all game long. If Copeland had been willing or capable of grabbing rebounds there would have been less of a need to plug MD in the starting lineup in the first place last season, starting Cope at the three spot as a result. Heck, right now another soph, Kaleb, is far more reliable of being able to drive to the hoop like a wing without getting stripped of the ball. Kaleb has also shown more willingness to grab a rebound in traffic. If Copeland shows the adequate improvement in driving, shooting, rebounding and just showing energy on the court very minute he is out there then I concur we are looking at a star. But I'm not confident he will demonstrate such progress. But I absolutely see him a starter, unless he continues to regress and someone takes a leap forward. I doubt anyone on HT feels that Ike played up to his potential last year, and I think most feel he has the highest ceiling. Like I mentioned the Copeland love is strong. I always felt that Peak had the bigger upside and was most excited about him of that class coming in. But I had to eat dirt a lot when Peak started floating during the BE part of his frosh year and was shooting the ball horrifically. I didn't give up on Peak at that time nor did I think he should have been moved out of the starting spot (in part because there weren't a lot of options), but I could at least understand why others would feel that way. I get the sense that Copeland fans however never allowed doubt to creep in their minds that he might not be the Second Coming, even despite his struggles last year. Of course I'm hoping for the best. A starting five that includes three athletic ballers like Peak, Copeland and Pryor who play aggressive on the court at all times should be fun to watch.
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beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,475
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Post by beenaround on Jul 21, 2016 8:58:59 GMT -5
MCI...despite my bold , 100 pct prediction that Ike will start, I am not delusional about what I saw last year. He physically has all the tools, in terms of hops, balance, form on his shot, etc. I, like most here, expected him to have a major leap his soph year, ala Jeff Green or Otto. Obviously, it was not even close. So, at least for me, it has more than "crept into my mind" that Ike is not what we had hoped. I am quite anxious to see how he responds to the competition for playing time...just have not given up hope, quite yet. I am most pumped to see Pryor...seems like a guy who plays with the agressions we want to see from Ike.
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nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by nychoya3 on Jul 21, 2016 9:03:01 GMT -5
It's hard for me to imagine Copeland not starting, but it should be on the table based on performance. He was a net negative for the most part last year - took a lot of long jumpers and isn't a good enough shooter to do that. And despite his evident length and athleticism, he was a poor defender to my eyes (along with just about everyone else on the team, in fairness). I would prefer to see him play more at the 4 this year because it's not apparent he can stay in front of quicker, smaller 3s on the perimeter.
I think Pryor will challenge Peak as our best player, and he might be our best right out of the gate. Very excited to see him play.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,362
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Post by calhoya on Jul 21, 2016 9:03:55 GMT -5
MCI...despite my bold , 100 pct prediction that Ike will start, I am not delusional about what I saw last year. He physically has all the tools, in terms of hops, balance, form on his shot, etc. I, like most here, expected him to have a major leap his soph year, ala Jeff Green or Otto. Obviously, it was not even close. So, at least for me, it has more than "crept into my mind" that Ike is not what we had hoped. I am quite anxious to see how he responds to the competition for playing time...just have not given up hope, quite yet. I am most pumped to see Pryor...seems like a guy who plays with the agressions we want to see from Ike. I agree with you about the apparent tools that Ike possesses with one exception. I believe that his form on his shot is a major problem for him when he moves away from the basket. Noticed this for the past few years and asked a couple of coaching buddies what they thought. Watch film and you will see that as Copeland moves away from the basket, particularly to the 3 pt range, when he elevates for his shot he often flattens the shot and eliminates his arc. These type of "line drive" balls leave him no margin for error if the shot is off a little.
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