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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 3, 2016 20:40:48 GMT -5
Most disappointing Hoyas team, for certain. I loved our talent going into the season. Still do, actually. But when you see the same mistakes over and over and over again, regression instead of progress, it's disheartening as well as discouraging. What's interesting is I don't think it's just the fanbase that has found this season so confounding. I think a lot of basketball writers had us pegged to achieve really good things, and they're equally perplexed. I don't say this as an excuse, but it is true that there are certain times when teams just don't gel and don't work well together. Case in point: the 2013 Kentucky team. By any rational measure, Kentucky had far, far greater talent that year than Georgetown had this year. They were also a young team. They started the season ranked 3 in both the writers and coaches polls. Yet, they had an incredibly poor season. Obviously, Noel got injured and you can make other excuses, but the point is that should have still been an NCAA team, and it wasn't. To a large extent, preseason expectations are silly. I put up a post here a while back showing that a substantial number of the pre-season top 25 finished outside the top 25. This is college basketball, where there are a lot of variables - most notably that the people involved are often 18-19 year old kids, and at least at Georgetown, they have another full time job in the classroom. Really, if you look at the team on paper, the 2010 team's underachieving was far greater than this year's team. The reason people were so high on this year's team was expectations of improvement that they did not yet see or know, but that they believed would occur. I was in the same camp. With DSR coming back, and the promising incoming freshman and sophomores, I really expected the team to be really good (even after Radford). But, it didn't happen. When things like that happen, people always want a good explanation and they want to place blame somewhere - be it the players, coaches, referees, etc. Sometimes, there really isn't a good explanation other than the fact that the guys just didn't get it together.
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b52legend
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 453
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Post by b52legend on Mar 3, 2016 20:44:57 GMT -5
None of our prior terrible teams make me currently sad. This one does.
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gujake
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 831
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Post by gujake on Mar 3, 2016 20:59:13 GMT -5
Really, if you look at the team on paper, the 2010 team's underachieving was far greater than this year's team. The 2010 team was ranked 20th/21st in the national pre-season poll, and ended up as a #3 seed in the tournament. Before the Ohio loss, they arguably exceeded expectations, no? This year's team was ranked 30th/33rd in the national pre-season poll and is going to finish with an overall losing record. Not sure how it's comparable at all, really. This team has under-performed horribly.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,382
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Post by drquigley on Mar 3, 2016 21:52:29 GMT -5
I think the sadness is all about the expectations. Not just preseason. Early season games against Duke and Maryland were very competitive and led many, including Bilas and Lavin, to think we would be very dangerous come March. Wins over Wisconsin and Syracuse were solid and the early BE run, arguably against weak opponents, combined to raise hopes that this team was only going to special. And the bizarre games. The ridiculous first half blowouts and second half comebacks. Hmm.. I just realized that THIS TEAM IS MENOPAUSAL.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 3, 2016 22:01:13 GMT -5
Really, if you look at the team on paper, the 2010 team's underachieving was far greater than this year's team. The 2010 team was ranked 20th/21st in the national pre-season poll, and ended up as a #3 seed in the tournament. Before the Ohio loss, they arguably exceeded expectations, no? This year's team was ranked 30th/33rd in the national pre-season poll and is going to finish with an overall losing record. Not sure how it's comparable at all, really. This team has under-performed horribly. I think he meant 2009, the team that finished 16-15 and missed the tournament despite Wright, Freeman, Monroe, Summers, Sapp, Clark...
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Mar 3, 2016 22:07:21 GMT -5
The 2010 team was ranked 20th/21st in the national pre-season poll, and ended up as a #3 seed in the tournament. Before the Ohio loss, they arguably exceeded expectations, no? This year's team was ranked 30th/33rd in the national pre-season poll and is going to finish with an overall losing record. Not sure how it's comparable at all, really. This team has under-performed horribly. I think he meant 2009, the team that finished 16-15 and missed the tournament despite Wright, Freeman, Monroe, Summers, Sapp, Clark... But that team faded because of injury and illness
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 3, 2016 22:10:52 GMT -5
I think he meant 2009, the team that finished 16-15 and missed the tournament despite Wright, Freeman, Monroe, Summers, Sapp, Clark... But that team faded because of injury and illness Negative. That team faded because they didn't like each other. I think you're confusing it with 2011 when Wright had the wrist? Unless you're considering Dajuan Summers an illness, in which case I agree.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Mar 3, 2016 23:26:58 GMT -5
I think 2010 had the Austin Freeman illness and 2011 is when Chris Wright hurt his wrist.. It is either that or the years are vice versa.
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ahoya2
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 135
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Post by ahoya2 on Mar 4, 2016 7:34:55 GMT -5
Is this the worst team in Georgetown history? My God no. I was here to witness the end of the Jack McGee era- 3-23 ( ?) Cant remember exactly.Disappointing yes because of overblown pre season expectations. Preseason many of us expressed concerns about perimeter and rim defense, rebounding and lack of guards. Prescient I am afraid. I don't think this was due to bad chemistry but really good athletes who dominted in HS but with marginal fundamentals and got schooled when exposed to Div 1. I have calmed down a bit.
First, the talent is not what we thought it was. Resulted in unreasonable expectations Guard play- huge Perimenter and rim defense-huge. ( Miss Hopper and Trawick) Loss of White-huge. High BB IQ and passing.
For next year, return of White, Agau( ACL repair and return to high level of play more common in football than BB), a new point guard ( and hopefully another pick up who is quick and help with helpless defense agains drive and kick) and most importantly, another year of maturity. Peak showed marked improvemtn in last half of the season and Copeland gave us some hope) Derrickson and Govan will be fine)
Looking forward to improved play in BE and next year
HOYA SAXA
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 4, 2016 11:05:59 GMT -5
The 2010 team was ranked 20th/21st in the national pre-season poll, and ended up as a #3 seed in the tournament. Before the Ohio loss, they arguably exceeded expectations, no? This year's team was ranked 30th/33rd in the national pre-season poll and is going to finish with an overall losing record. Not sure how it's comparable at all, really. This team has under-performed horribly. I think he meant 2009, the team that finished 16-15 and missed the tournament despite Wright, Freeman, Monroe, Summers, Sapp, Clark... Yes, I meant 2009. That team had a top 20 recruit (depending on what service you examine), two other McDonalds All-Americans (Wright, Freeman), and four guys who would at least touch the NBA (Monroe, Sims, Summers, Wright). On paper, that team was significantly better than their results.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 4, 2016 11:13:46 GMT -5
I think he meant 2009, the team that finished 16-15 and missed the tournament despite Wright, Freeman, Monroe, Summers, Sapp, Clark... Yes, I meant 2009. That team had a top 20 recruit (depending on what service you examine), two other McDonalds All-Americans (Wright, Freeman), and four guys who would at least touch the NBA (Monroe, Sims, Summers, Wright). On paper, that team was significantly better than their results. Agreed
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hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
Posts: 4,719
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Post by hoyainla on Mar 4, 2016 13:06:44 GMT -5
But that team faded because of injury and illness Negative. That team faded because they didn't like each other. I think you're confusing it with 2011 when Wright had the wrist? Unless you're considering Dajuan Summers an illness, in which case I agree. The 2009 team and this team are scarily similar and have the same problem I'm afraid.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Mar 4, 2016 13:25:54 GMT -5
Negative. That team faded because they didn't like each other. I think you're confusing it with 2011 when Wright had the wrist? Unless you're considering Dajuan Summers an illness, in which case I agree. The 2009 team and this team are scarily similar and have the same problem I'm afraid. And in 2010 we got back on track. Here's hoping this plays out the same way.
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dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
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Post by dreamhoya on Mar 4, 2016 23:07:35 GMT -5
No this team is not the worst. There were a couple that were worse during the Samnick years. I don't think this team has a "gel" problem. I just think it's a personnel issue. None of the players are particularly defensive-minded. None are built to be tough rebounders, none are built to get steals, etc.
this is a team that doesn't understand defensive concepts as well as they should. this team has been thinking rather than playing for a good majority of the year, both offensively and defensively.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
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Post by Elvado on Mar 5, 2016 9:12:23 GMT -5
No this team is not the worst. There were a couple that were worse during the Samnick years. I don't think this team has a "gel" problem. I just think it's a personnel issue. None of the players are particularly defensive-minded. None are built to be tough rebounders, none are built to get steals, etc. this is a team that doesn't understand defensive concepts as well as they should. this team has been thinking rather than playing for a good majority of the year, both offensively and defensively. And the stomach ache that was Victor Samnick returns. Shomnick on the other hand could play....
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,088
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Post by mapei on Mar 5, 2016 13:19:49 GMT -5
I've been profoundly disappointed in this year's results. But I also think I overestimated our "talent" because last year's freshman class all looked so promising at various times during the season. I thought they would all step up, be supplemented by a decent class of this year's freshmen (plus Akoy), and lead a team with more gains than losses from last year to this.
Now, I think I was evaluating our team through Hoya-colored glasses. More objectively, our high-achieving teams in recent years have generally had some degree of HS all-Americans and/or top-10 NBA draft picks. Other top-ranked teams have that, too. But this team is a notch or two below that. Not a *bad* talent pool, but not an outstanding one either. They have still underperformed, don't get me wrong, but maybe not by as much as a more objective evaluation would have allowed.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,297
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Post by prhoya on Mar 5, 2016 13:24:06 GMT -5
I've been profoundly disappointed in this year's results. But I also think I overestimated our "talent" because last year's freshman class all looked so promising at various times during the season. I thought they would all step up, be supplemented by a decent class of this year's freshmen (plus Akoy), and lead a team with more gains than losses from last year to this. Now, I think I was evaluating our team through Hoya-colored glasses. More objectively, our high-achieving teams in recent years have generally had some degree of HS all-Americans and/or top-10 NBA draft picks. Other top-ranked teams have that, too. But this team is a notch or two below that. Not a *bad* talent pool, but not an outstanding one either. They have still underperformed, don't get me wrong, but maybe not by as much as a more objective evaluation would have allowed. Don't worry, all the experts put us at #2 in BE... The team has simply underperformed by a bunch.
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,216
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Post by alleninxis on Mar 5, 2016 13:35:31 GMT -5
Since the JT JR era - I only can think of 2004 as being worse.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Mar 5, 2016 13:41:36 GMT -5
Since the JT JR era - I only can think of 2004 as being worse. I'm starting to reconsider the 2003-04 v 2015-16 comparison. At the least, JTIII's performance this year beats out any of Esh's seasons in terms of putridity given the hand each coach was dealt. It is the last regular season game and this team has zero clue how to play defense. ZERO. We have lost 9/10 in a far less competitive conference with arguably the "best" recruits in the conference. Let that sink in for a second.
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