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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 24, 2016 15:30:15 GMT -5
Long time season ticketholder here as well. I would be cool with it. I would also be happy if they had a "premium" package that included one or more of these games and just rotate the allotment. I think with the dynamics of attendance changing for all college sports & some pro too, lowering capacity makes some financial sense.
Is it completely insane to play home & homes with some of these mid-majors? How much does it set us back to play a game at Monmouth? It's gotta help for RPI purposes and it gets our team battle tested for different environments. If it costs us 15K to play road games, then I think that is another outside the box solution. Why not be a leader in this and create an attitude of we will play anyone, anywhere.
We are already losing these guarantee games anyways this years so what the hell.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 24, 2016 16:08:23 GMT -5
Long time season ticketholder here as well. I would be cool with it. I would also be happy if they had a "premium" package that included one or more of these games and just rotate the allotment. I think with the dynamics of attendance changing for all college sports & some pro too, lowering capacity makes some financial sense. Is it completely insane to play home & homes with some of these mid-majors? How much does it set us back to play a game at Monmouth? It's gotta help for RPI purposes and it gets our team battle tested for different environments. If it costs us 15K to play road games, then I think that is another outside the box solution. Why not be a leader in this and create an attitude of we will play anyone, anywhere. We are already losing these guarantee games anyways this years so what the hell. From a "I'm a college basketball fan" perspective, I love it. I love to see the UNCs of the world go the Northern Iowa's of the world -- and kudos to Roy for doing it. But, then again, they lost. Playing a mid-major on the road is a tough one. It would be (probably) the single biggest game in the history of Monmouth's facility, right? just like it probably was at Northern Iowa. That's a tough gauntlet to run through. The risk you run in a "normal" year is that you take a game against a decent opponent that is a relatively easy home win and you turn it into a loss -- potentially a bad loss come tournament time. Sure, you don't have to pay the "guarantee" fee if you return the game, but I don't think that's worth the $75K.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 24, 2016 16:14:05 GMT -5
I like the play anyone, anywhere mentality. We should do home-and-home with GW, George Mason, etc. I do not care about the perceived disadvantages- just let it fly.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Feb 24, 2016 16:35:21 GMT -5
Does anyone have (or can they link to) a comprehensive summary of the reasons why we don't have - and apparently can't have - an on-campus arena? I am familiar with issues associated with costs, space, parking, approval of the neighborhood commission, but it would helpful to have a refresher. DFW? I still really struggle with the fact that we got through far enough to get this new amazing practice facility, but couldn't get through an on-campus arena (even if just a renovation of McD). It has always been my understanding that a combination of space, parking and neighborhood approval was always the real issue. Is that right?
As a season ticket holder I would be more than happy to pay a premium for a few McDonough games (or "subsidize" some student tickets or however we want to view it).
I know everyone is sick of Duke and Cameron, but going to a game there (I was there most recently on Dec 2) is a painful reminder of what is possible.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Feb 24, 2016 16:40:49 GMT -5
We played Radford and Stetson on campus some time between 2007-2011 or so, in addition to the 2 ODU games. There may have even been one other McDonough game during roughly that time period. And we played an NIT game at McDonough during JTIII's first season (Cal State Fullerton maybe?) in addition to the W. Virginia NIT game two years ago. These games all had good student attendance and were a lot of fun (other than losing the two games to ODU!!)
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Post by JohnnyJones on Feb 24, 2016 16:42:11 GMT -5
Does anyone have (or can they link to) a comprehensive summary of the reasons why we don't have - and apparently can't have - an on-campus arena? I am familiar with issues associated with costs, space, parking, approval of the neighborhood commission, but it would helpful to have a refresher. DFW? I still really struggle with the fact that we got through far enough to get this new amazing practice facility, but couldn't get through an on-campus arena (even if just a renovation of McD). It has always been my understanding that a combination of space, parking and neighborhood approval was always the real issue. Is that right? As a season ticket holder I would be more than happy to pay a premium for a few McDonough games (or "subsidize" some student tickets or however we want to view it). I know everyone is sick of Duke and Cameron, but going to a game there (I was there most recently on Dec 2) is a painful reminder of what is possible. Also, if we had not screwed up (or been screwed out of) the Mount Vernon property, would that have solved this issue? Can't remember details on that either? DFW?
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 24, 2016 16:44:26 GMT -5
The on-campus thing also would help recruiting tremendously although I realize it is a bit pie in the sky at this point. What about a deal with the park service to play a game on the mall? Imagine the hype for that.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 24, 2016 17:02:32 GMT -5
Does anyone have (or can they link to) a comprehensive summary of the reasons why we don't have - and apparently can't have - an on-campus arena? I am familiar with issues associated with costs, space, parking, approval of the neighborhood commission, but it would helpful to have a refresher. DFW? I still really struggle with the fact that we got through far enough to get this new amazing practice facility, but couldn't get through an on-campus arena (even if just a renovation of McD). It has always been my understanding that a combination of space, parking and neighborhood approval was always the real issue. Is that right? As a season ticket holder I would be more than happy to pay a premium for a few McDonough games (or "subsidize" some student tickets or however we want to view it). I know everyone is sick of Duke and Cameron, but going to a game there (I was there most recently on Dec 2) is a painful reminder of what is possible. Also, if we had not screwed up (or been screwed out of) the Mount Vernon property, would that have solved this issue? Can't remember details on that either? DFW? That was a mistake of catastrophic proportions.
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Post by westendhoya on Feb 24, 2016 18:14:11 GMT -5
Does anyone have (or can they link to) a comprehensive summary of the reasons why we don't have - and apparently can't have - an on-campus arena? I am familiar with issues associated with costs, space, parking, approval of the neighborhood commission, but it would helpful to have a refresher. DFW? I still really struggle with the fact that we got through far enough to get this new amazing practice facility, but couldn't get through an on-campus arena (even if just a renovation of McD). It has always been my understanding that a combination of space, parking and neighborhood approval was always the real issue. Is that right? As a season ticket holder I would be more than happy to pay a premium for a few McDonough games (or "subsidize" some student tickets or however we want to view it). I know everyone is sick of Duke and Cameron, but going to a game there (I was there most recently on Dec 2) is a painful reminder of what is possible. I was also at a Duke game earlier this year and was really painful to think of what could be with an on-campus arena. Just a totally different feel.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 24, 2016 18:28:11 GMT -5
On campus arena ain't happening, just a reality. McD games were fun (the game against CS Fullerton was the loudest Hoyas game I have ever been to) but the reality is the program can't make money off of 2000 general admission tickets.
Even in an on campus arena though, if your team is bad, no one shows up.
Agree with Lic---JUST WIN---and crowds will return. Until then, watch out for tumble weeds next year.
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nodak89
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Roy Roy Royyyyy!!!
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Post by nodak89 on Feb 24, 2016 18:45:35 GMT -5
If I could get tix to a McDonough game, I would come home to Georgetown every year.
That would be unbelievably awesome.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Feb 24, 2016 19:06:48 GMT -5
On campus arena ain't happening, just a reality. McD games were fun (the game against CS Fullerton was the loudest Hoyas game I have ever been to) but the reality is the program can't make money off of 2000 general admission tickets. Even in an on campus arena though, if your team is bad, no one shows up. Agree with Lic---JUST WIN---and crowds will return. Until then, watch out for tumble weeds next year. I don't disagree at all that (1) an on-campus arena is not happening and (2) if we are really good (and I would add playing another decent - or at least name - team), then the VC can provide a very good atmosphere for a game. I am interested in being reminded the detailed reasons why #1 is the case.
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FLHoya
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Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Feb 24, 2016 20:38:37 GMT -5
And yet this somehow made enough sense that Muir did it to kick off 2006-07, and that was apparently not enough of a financial calamity to prevent (I believe interim AD Porterfield) from scheduling another similar game three years later right before Christmas break of the 2009-10 season. ODU might have been a different situation. We either gave them a four-game series or did two separate home-and-homes...entirely possible (probably likely) there was no $$$ guarantee in there, so that wouldn't have factored into the break-even on those two games. This for me is another in the category of "meh, do it because it's a nice thing to do". We could stand to have more of those types of things for fans. I don't think watching a cupcake game at McD is gonna have anything more than a tiny marginal impact on student attendance at Verizon, but we should still do it. Twice a year, even.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 24, 2016 21:28:44 GMT -5
From the post above:
1) Lower the curtains in the 400's behind the baskets: That's the approach that screams "we can't sell tickets". TV never sees those seats, anyway.
2) Show replays of questionable calls or highlights on the big screen: Some conferences do not allow this; since I've never seen it at a Big East game, I'm guessing this is the case.
3) Lower the lights in the arena to give Verizon a Barclays center feel: It was awful at the Cap Center and it would be awful at Verizon Center. No thanks.
4) Change up the tired song band selections & in-game promos a bit: Tend to agree--the band is stuck in the 1980's. See the VCU Peppas for a more modern alternative.
5) Add a strength coach & metrics coach: The last thing this staff needs is another FTE.
6) Really promote this Cooper Athletic Leadership Program as a differentiator of our program in recruiting: Eventually, yes.
7) Get a new in-game announcer. That guy sounds like his heart is barely beating. I want a rucker hype man type:Strongly disagree. If you don't who "that guy" is, how long have you been following the Hoyas?
8) Suggestions?; More late night weekend games, better seats for students, home and away opponents from the Big 12. Oh, yeah, and some wins.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 24, 2016 23:37:33 GMT -5
From the post above: 1) Lower the curtains in the 400's behind the baskets: That's the approach that screams "we can't sell tickets". TV never sees those seats, anyway. 2) Show replays of questionable calls or highlights on the big screen: Some conferences do not allow this; since I've never seen it at a Big East game, I'm guessing this is the case. 3) Lower the lights in the arena to give Verizon a Barclays center feel: It was awful at the Cap Center and it would be awful at Verizon Center. No thanks. 4) Change up the tired song band selections & in-game promos a bit: Tend to agree--the band is stuck in the 1980's. See the VCU Peppas for a more modern alternative. 5) Add a strength coach & metrics coach: The last thing this staff needs is another FTE. 6) Really promote this Cooper Athletic Leadership Program as a differentiator of our program in recruiting: Eventually, yes. 7) Get a new in-game announcer. That guy sounds like his heart is barely beating. I want a rucker hype man type:Strongly disagree. If you don't who "that guy" is, how long have you been following the Hoyas? 8) Suggestions?; More late night weekend games, better seats for students, home and away opponents from the Big 12. Oh, yeah, and some wins. A few thoughts. (1) I tend to agree on the curtain being pointless. But, see #3 below. (3) In my mind, there's no question that the darker lighting at Madison Square Garden is far superior to that of the Verizon Center. The Verizon Center looks awful on TV. Why would darker lighting be a bad thing. Admittedly, I am too young to remember the Capital Centre, so I am genuinely curious why it was bad, and if it was bad simply because it was done poorly. The other advantage to the darker lighting is that it makes the higher seats even harder to see. (7) I get that Father McFadden is an institution of sorts, but he doesn't have a great voice and it doesn't translate well to the modern game. I guess I see the reasons for keeping him there; but I can also see why some might say there's a need to innovate and try something new.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Feb 25, 2016 15:40:58 GMT -5
4) Change up the tired song band selections & in-game promos a bit: Tend to agree--the band is stuck in the 1980's. See the VCU Peppas for a more modern alternative. To be fair, the pep band actually plays a lot of recent music. With attendance down across the board this year, the band isn't always at full strength this year and the music suffers. The same thing happened in 2003-2004, but then the band membership skyrocketed after the 05-06 and 06-07 seasons. But at the Xavier game alone they played Taylor Swift (2014), the Game of Thrones theme song (2011), Outkast (2003), and Offspring (1999) that I can remember off the top of my head.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 25, 2016 16:02:09 GMT -5
DFW, I have been following the team for 23 years. Probably not viewed as long by some. That being said, if Father McFadden is the in-game announcer, he sounds horrible. Too mechanical and semi-robotic. I have had two separate guests I brought to games this year comment on this unsolicited. I never even thought about it until then but it made me realize, they were right.
On the curtain, it might scream of we can't sell tickets but so does covering the 100's behind the bucket with Hoya Tarps. The new era of sports doesn't lend itself to a 8K undergrad university filling a 20K stadium.
On the in-game replays I didn't realize that and if that is the case, the Big East might want to reconsider. Yes it highlights potential errors by your officials but is also prevents some dead spots during the game when refs are hitting the replay monitors.
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mapei
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Post by mapei on Feb 25, 2016 18:11:09 GMT -5
I don't mind Father McFadden's low key style, but I am getting tired of his increasingly frequent mistakes. At the X game, he announced a foul on Cameron when Reggie wasn't even in the game.
As for our band, they are just awful to my ears. One thing I've noticed at Duke games - I go to one or two games there every year - is that they have an alumni band when there aren't enough students around because of breaks. And they are always great.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Feb 29, 2016 23:29:26 GMT -5
Does anyone have (or can they link to) a comprehensive summary of the reasons why we don't have - and apparently can't have - an on-campus arena? I am familiar with issues associated with costs, space, parking, approval of the neighborhood commission, but it would helpful to have a refresher. DFW? I still really struggle with the fact that we got through far enough to get this new amazing practice facility, but couldn't get through an on-campus arena (even if just a renovation of McD). It has always been my understanding that a combination of space, parking and neighborhood approval was always the real issue. Is that right? As a season ticket holder I would be more than happy to pay a premium for a few McDonough games (or "subsidize" some student tickets or however we want to view it). I know everyone is sick of Duke and Cameron, but going to a game there (I was there most recently on Dec 2) is a painful reminder of what is possible. Also, if we had not screwed up (or been screwed out of) the Mount Vernon property, would that have solved this issue? Can't remember details on that either? DFW? Doing a quick search on my own posts, I found plenty that got at various aspects of the topic, but no "comprehensive summary." So I'll take a shot at providing that, briefly, here: Universities in the District of Columbia are allowed to operate in areas that are zoned residential through a special exception that requires, among other things, the filing and approval of a periodic Campus Plan. The Plan must be approved by the Zoning Commission (since 2010; the 2000 Plan and those before it were approved by the Board of Zoning Adjustment, an inferior body). Various neighborhood interests serve as parties to these proceedings, such as the elected Advisory Neighborhood Commissions for the area (chiefly ANC2E-Georgetown, but also ANC3D-Foxhall and ANC3B-Glover Park), neighborhood residents' organizations (Citizens Association of Georgetown, Burleith Citizens Association, Foxhall Community Citizens Association), and DC agencies such as the Office of Planning. Universities are permitted to operate in residential areas on the condition that they not create "objectionable impacts" that negatively affect those living in adjacent residential areas. In the event that parties report any such objectionable impacts, the burden falls on the University to demonstrate that these impacts are negligible as part of the process for receiving approval of its submitted Campus Plan. In addition, by DC law, the District government is required to give "great weight" to the opinion of ANCs in its dealings and deliberations. Finally, the DC Comprehensive Plan states that it is the official policy of the District government to "Discourage university actions that would adversely affect the character or quality of life in surrounding residential areas." Add it all up, and you get a situation in which neighborhood opposition to a University activity can block the University from getting its Plan approved, effectively freezing any further development on campus. In the worst case, parties with legal standing (which would probably include private citizens, unlike in most Campus Plan proceedings) could sue the University for failing to abide by the requirement to avoid objectionable impacts, which could lead to the courts forcing the University to take action to reduce those impacts to an acceptable level. Generally it doesn't get to that point, however. Instead, the University agrees to certain stipulations in order to secure neighborhood support for the Plan. Thus, for instance, in the current Campus Plan, the University has promised that "All weekday evening performances at the Performing Arts Center expected to draw more than 100 visitors shall begin no earlier than 7:00 p.m." and "Weekday athletic events at Harbin Field expected to draw over 100 visitors shall begin before 4:00 p.m. or after 7:00 p.m." As the two examples above illustrate, a large percentage of neighbor concerns deal with traffic (particularly during rush hour) and parking. Those overriding and ever-present concerns make it extremely unlikely - to the point of being effectively impossible - that neighborhood interests would acquiesce to a 10,000 or even 5,000 seat on-campus arena. Nor would they approve the increase in on-campus parking that would likely be required to accompany such a facility; the current Plan caps total on-campus parking at 4,080 spaces. That's really all there is to it. An on-campus arena would be opposed on the grounds that it would create objectionable impacts, and the burden would fall on the University, in seeking to alter the status quo, to prove that it would not. Based on past events, the likelihood of the University being able to successfully pull that off is zero. P.S. No, keeping Mount Vernon wouldn't have helped with this particular dilemma. The ANCs in that part of town make Georgetown's ANC look downright reasonable. They would never permit an on-campus arena either.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Mar 1, 2016 0:03:29 GMT -5
Also, if we had not screwed up (or been screwed out of) the Mount Vernon property, would that have solved this issue? Can't remember details on that either? DFW? Doing a quick search on my own posts, I found plenty that got at various aspects of the topic, but no "comprehensive summary." So I'll take a shot at providing that, briefly, here: Universities in the District of Columbia are allowed to operate in areas that are zoned residential through a special exception that requires, among other things, the filing and approval of a periodic Campus Plan. The Plan must be approved by the Zoning Commission (since 2010; the 2000 Plan and those before it were approved by the Board of Zoning Adjustment, an inferior body). Various neighborhood interests serve as parties to these proceedings, such as the elected Advisory Neighborhood Commissions for the area (chiefly ANC2E-Georgetown, but also ANC3D-Foxhall and ANC3B-Glover Park), neighborhood residents' organizations (Citizens Association of Georgetown, Burleith Citizens Association, Foxhall Community Citizens Association), and DC agencies such as the Office of Planning. Universities are permitted to operate in residential areas on the condition that they not create "objectionable impacts" that negatively affect those living in adjacent residential areas. In the event that parties report any such objectionable impacts, the burden falls on the University to demonstrate that these impacts are negligible as part of the process for receiving approval of its submitted Campus Plan. In addition, by DC law, the District government is required to give "great weight" to the opinion of ANCs in its dealings and deliberations. Finally, the DC Comprehensive Plan states that it is the official policy of the District government to "Discourage university actions that would adversely affect the character or quality of life in surrounding residential areas." Add it all up, and you get a situation in which neighborhood opposition to a University activity can block the University from getting its Plan approved, effectively freezing any further development on campus. In the worst case, parties with legal standing (which would probably include private citizens, unlike in most Campus Plan proceedings) could sue the University for failing to abide by the requirement to avoid objectionable impacts, which could lead to the courts forcing the University to take action to reduce those impacts to an acceptable level. Generally it doesn't get to that point, however. Instead, the University agrees to certain stipulations in order to secure neighborhood support for the Plan. Thus, for instance, in the current Campus Plan, the University has promised that "All weekday evening performances at the Performing Arts Center expected to draw more than 100 visitors shall begin no earlier than 7:00 p.m." and "Weekday athletic events at Harbin Field expected to draw over 100 visitors shall begin before 4:00 p.m. or after 7:00 p.m." As the two examples above illustrate, a large percentage of neighbor concerns deal with traffic (particularly during rush hour) and parking. Those overriding and ever-present concerns make it extremely unlikely - to the point of being effectively impossible - that neighborhood interests would acquiesce to a 10,000 or even 5,000 seat on-campus arena. Nor would they approve the increase in on-campus parking that would likely be required to accompany such a facility; the current Plan caps total on-campus parking at 4,080 spaces. That's really all there is to it. An on-campus arena would be opposed on the grounds that it would create objectionable impacts, and the burden would fall on the University, in seeking to alter the status quo, to prove that it would not. Based on past events, the likelihood of the University being able to successfully pull that off is zero. P.S. No, keeping Mount Vernon wouldn't have helped with this particular dilemma. The ANCs in that part of town make Georgetown's ANC look downright reasonable. They would never permit an on-campus arena either. Thanks a ton for taking the time to pull that together. Reminds me how difficult (insurmountable) this really is. I would take the position that a half dozen weeknight games and a half dozen weekend games over the course of a year does not create an objectionable impact, but I am a bit biased (and live in Northern VA). So I guess the solution is to get much better on the court and the crowds and atmosphere will follow at Verizon. Thanks again.
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