Possible non-player & facility improvements that can be made

[RusskyHoya]

Mar 7, 2016 20:16:40 GMT -5 sleepy said:

Who was it that ran for Student Council President back in the 70s His platform called for annexing Rosslyn to provide increased on campus housing. If only Fr. Henle had listened we could have solved many problems.

Fast forward to today: Georgetown agreed as part of the last Campus Plan to conduct a study on satellite housing. When the University issued the RFI for the study, as required, students protested and held a referendum that overwhelmingly declared their opposition to housing in Rosslyn or any other satellite dorm location.

Mar 8, 2016 13:10:10 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Mar 8, 2016 12:24:44 GMT -5 sleepy said:

DFW I always assumed that this still would need to be part of the University plan and hence would have met with ANC objection. This sounds more like the same leadership and foresight that gave us the Mt Vernon debacle.

"What kinds of projects do not require review by the OGB/CFA?

--Minor repairs
--Masonry repointing
--Storm windows
--Temporary primary business signs to be displayed 60 days or less while review for a permanent sign is pending installation, removal or repairs of underground storage tanks, underground utility lines, and underground waterproofing measures temporary construction barriers and scaffolding and public space permits for dumpsters and parking repair or partial replacement in kind of compatible fences (new fences or substantial replacement of a fence requires OGB/CFA review; replacement of small portions can considered a minor repair not requiring a permit)
--Changes of use involving no physical change to the exterior of the property

www.cfa.gov/project-review/old-georgetown/old-georgetown-faqs#9

This may all be moot as Georgetown has shown no inclination to actually do anything to McDonough (which will be 85 years old when the next campus plan expires) and focus instead on fixing the crumbling Yates structure.

I'm confused why you're conflating the ANC and OGB/CFA. The latter are architectural/aesthetic/historical preservation bodies. Their purview, as you cited, does not extend to internal renovations and use. The ANC and other neighborhood groups, however, have a say on all manner of University impacts. They have the ability to protest the University's activities, permits, etc. A very different proposition.

Given that the MSF plans circa 2006 were not very well thought out or realistic, I don't know that I would put any more stock into the ones at the time for McDonough. More than likely, they were similarly ill-considered, with rosy assumptions made about what was possible both financially and from a neighborhood approval standpoint (recall the buzzsaw into which the relatively modest initial 2010 Campus Plan proposal crashed).

[RockawayHoya]

Apologies if this was already posted elsewhere, but I couldn't find any mention of it on the board. FWIW, I have it on good word that it's still available as of today.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/digger/wp/2015/10/22/fannie-mae-puts-headquarters-up-for-sale-could-fetch-more-than-200-million/?tid=a_inl

Couple of thoughts, just thinking out loud:

1) First off, regardless of whether or not it could house an arena, it would make for an intriguing option for a satellite campus.

2) If we are talking about the possibility of an arena, a few questions. Is 228K square feet enough? Do the same neighborhood councils and architectural boards that have given us so many issues have jurisdiction up in that area? If not, would it be possible to tear down the existing structure and modernize it?

3) I realize that in terms of general convenience in getting to/from Verizon, this site would be a little less so (approx. 10 min walk from Van Ness metro). But in a pipe dream, I am envisioning a new satellite campus for Georgetown at the two other addresses listed plus an arena at the main site. Maybe even a new GUTS bus line headed up in that direction to connect the campuses (and improve student turnout). And it already has dedicated parking.

4) Cost may be prohibitive, but are we at least in the ballpark?

Would love to hear any thoughts on this.

[kchoya]

Mar 8, 2016 9:40:52 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Mar 8, 2016 9:20:50 GMT -5 sleepy said:

Money is not an issue. Its the community that will never allow anything like this to be built.

The renovation of a building is at its core a University decision, not an OGB/ANC one. And had someone in the University shown the vision (and fundraising) to see where the original Joe Lang proposal would have done (at a cost of $22 million), we wouldn't be having this conversation and would likely have played a majority of non-conference games on campus since 2006.

Purely as an example, what it might have looked like (this is the facility at Monmouth):

That seems like apples and oranges. The MAC at Monmouth University is 153,200-square-foot in size and in addition to the 4,100 seat arena pictured above, also has a 200-meter, six-lane indoor track, a fitness center and a pool (in addition to locker rooms and meeting spaces). I don't think that's going to fit in the airplane hangar that is McDonough.

[boxout05]

FNMA campus would seem like a great opportunity for a Gtown satellite, but not sure what would go there in the next 2-3 years. Seems that would be a case of buying the land while you can and figuring out what to do with it later. Doesn't seem like the ideal spot for an arena though. A Key Bridge Marriott convention center/development has been mentioned, that'd still be my pipe dream if the rent works out better than Verizon.

Anyone close to the university know if either of these ideas has actually been discussed in strategy meetings?

[DFW HOYA]

Mar 16, 2016 11:59:12 GMT -5 kchoya said:

That seems like apples and oranges. The MAC at Monmouth University is 153,200-square-foot in size and in addition to the 4,100 seat arena pictured above, also has a 200-meter, six-lane indoor track, a fitness center and a pool (in addition to locker rooms and meeting spaces). I don't think that's going to fit in the airplane hangar that is McDonough.

Yates Field House is 142,000 SF and also has a 200-meter, six-lane indoor track, a fitness center and a pool (in addition to locker rooms and meeting spaces). Of course, it is literally falling apart and in need of demolition. But a new center is likely to be a $100-$120M effort--who will pay for it?

There are creative solutions out there but with the end of the capital campaign in June, every major donor has been tapped and the major gifts will tail off for the next few years as a result.

[bostonfan]

The satellite campus idea was floated a year or two ago and the student body protested about it so much that the idea seemed to be dropped by the administration. The students want to keep one main undergrad campus.

[boxout05]

In a perfect world, I imagine undergrad campus would be kept entirely within the walls. FNMA (or any other satellite) would be about moving as much off of 37th and O as possible in order to make room for the undergrads or a scenario where the campus footprint is simply too limiting.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Mar 16, 2016 12:47:05 GMT -5 bostonfan said:

The satellite campus idea was floated a year or two ago and the student body protested about it so much that the idea seemed to be dropped by the administration. The students want to keep one main undergrad campus.

I realize it's likely completely not feasible, but my thought has always been to kick the hospital and medical school off campus and co-opt that land for the undergraduate campus. It's really the only way Georgetown's main campus would have ample room for expansion.

[bostonfan]

Mar 16, 2016 17:48:03 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Mar 16, 2016 12:47:05 GMT -5 bostonfan said:

The satellite campus idea was floated a year or two ago and the student body protested about it so much that the idea seemed to be dropped by the administration. The students want to keep one main undergrad campus.

I realize it's likely completely not feasible, but my thought has always been to kick the hospital and medical school off campus and co-opt that land for the undergraduate campus. It's really the only way Georgetown's main campus would have ample room for expansion.

It does not look like the hospital/medical school is going anywhere. They recently proposed a plan to expand part the facility as part of a 500 million dollar improvement plan that seems to have the support of the university. Not sure it will ever get approved by the various boards, but a plan like that makes you think they are there long term.

I always wondered why they won't consider raising the roof on McDonough to add a second story of seating. They could also remove some of the offices in the building that should open up even more space for seating capacity. If they could get to a 5,000-6,000 capacity it would do the trick. I am not an engineer so I don't know if that is structurally feasible but it seems like they already have a facility on campus that might be able to be enlarged to host a few on campus games and give the school another location for large assemblies.

[kchoya]

Mar 16, 2016 17:48:03 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Mar 16, 2016 12:47:05 GMT -5 bostonfan said:

The satellite campus idea was floated a year or two ago and the student body protested about it so much that the idea seemed to be dropped by the administration. The students want to keep one main undergrad campus.

I realize it's likely completely not feasible, but my thought has always been to kick the hospital and medical school off campus and co-opt that land for the undergraduate campus. It's really the only way Georgetown's main campus would have ample room for expansion.

Kick the hospital off campus? To where? You can't just drop a hospital any old place.

[upstatesaxa]

Feb 23, 2016 14:15:54 GMT -5 hoyalove4ever said:

More patient fans willing to offer their unconditional support would be a good start. We ought to have a packed Verizon for Senior Day on Saturday. The fact that we will not is a big problem. Ask not what your team can do for you...

You're right... its the fans that are the problem

[DFW HOYA]

Mar 18, 2016 12:14:01 GMT -5 kchoya said:

Kick the hospital off campus? To where? You can't just drop a hospital any old place.

This was the line of thinking that MedStar could be induced to relocate to St. Elizabeth's or Hill East (the gentrified term better known as the area south of RFK Stadium where DC General once stood) with some combination of public-private funding and build where it couldn't on Reservoir Road.

However, since MedStar acts in its own self-interest and not for Georgetown, it figured out a away where it could consume all remaining open space on the hospital campus instead.

Next to Mount Vernon, the circumstances leading to the sale of the Medical School was the second worst business decision GU has made in the last 100 years.

[DanMcQ]

Mar 19, 2016 9:03:33 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

The circumstances leading to the sale of the Medical School was the second worst business decision GU has made in the last 100 years.

Care to clarify what you mean by that? I don't follow.

[DFW HOYA]

Mar 19, 2016 9:21:41 GMT -5 DanMcQ said:

Mar 19, 2016 9:03:33 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

The circumstances leading to the sale of the Medical School was the second worst business decision GU has made in the last 100 years.

Care to clarify what you mean by that? I don't follow.

The time it took Georgetown to act on the financial losses at the hospital from 1988 to 2000 became nearly intolerable on the balance sheets. Tim Healy argued to sell the hospital as far basck as the 1980's and the board wouldn't do it. Leo O'Donovan was steadfast to maintain the hospital at all costs. The losses were staggering.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Mar 18, 2016 12:14:01 GMT -5 kchoya said:

Mar 16, 2016 17:48:03 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

I realize it's likely completely not feasible, but my thought has always been to kick the hospital and medical school off campus and co-opt that land for the undergraduate campus. It's really the only way Georgetown's main campus would have ample room for expansion.

Kick the hospital off campus? To where? You can't just drop a hospital any old place.

I never said my idea was realistic!

[DanMcQ]

Mar 19, 2016 9:29:00 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Mar 19, 2016 9:21:41 GMT -5 DanMcQ said:

Care to clarify what you mean by that? I don't follow.

The time it took Georgetown to act on the financial losses at the hospital from 1988 to 2000 became nearly intolerable on the balance sheets. Tim Healy argued to sell the hospital as far basck as the 1980's and the board wouldn't do it. Leo O'Donovan was steadfast to maintain the hospital at all costs. The losses were staggering.

That's what I thought - just wanted to be sure others followed. Marquette figured that math out in the 1970s, creating the freestanding Medical College of Wisconsin.

[Deleted]

Has the Strength and Conditioning program been discussed yet? Asking for a friend....

[RusskyHoya]

Mar 19, 2016 9:03:33 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Mar 18, 2016 12:14:01 GMT -5 kchoya said:

Kick the hospital off campus? To where? You can't just drop a hospital any old place.

This was the line of thinking that MedStar could be induced to relocate to St. Elizabeth's or Hill East (the gentrified term better known as the area south of RFK Stadium where DC General once stood) with some combination of public-private funding and build where it couldn't on Reservoir Road.

However, since MedStar acts in its own self-interest and not for Georgetown, it figured out a away where it could consume all remaining open space on the hospital campus instead.

Next to Mount Vernon, the circumstances leading to the sale of the Medical School was the second worst business decision GU has made in the last 100 years.

Doctors and hospital execs are, by and large, suburban McMansion dwellers who were slow to recognize the resurgence of core urban areas. MedStar is a non-profit that operates a number of such locations, so they were perhaps a little bit quicker on the uptake, but still, there was a long-standing trend toward development of massive greenfield campuses out in the suburbs/exurbs. See, for instance, how Inova campuses have mushroomed all over Northern Virginia.

MedStar thought this trend would continue and it would most likely need to chase it. Howard Federoff himself mentioned in a public letter that he believed MedStar would decamp from the Hilltop over the next 30 years.

And then MedStar got wise to the fact that both high-earning patients and medical/administrative talent are anchoring themselves on center cities again, so it has apparently decided to double down. Being a non-profit in the Age of Obamacare is also a stronger (relative) position than it had appeared during the last Campus Plan go-round. So they are now doubling down on the on-campus location, hopefully in a way that enhances that part of campus, rather than leaving it in the spartan and unpleasant state it has been for the better part of the last 3 decades (or more).

BTW, DC General is still there, being used as a giant District-owned homeless shelter for families, which the mayor is trying to break up and distribute into smaller cites across the city.

[kchoya]

Mar 22, 2016 11:29:03 GMT -5 RusskyHoya said:

Mar 19, 2016 9:03:33 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

This was the line of thinking that MedStar could be induced to relocate to St. Elizabeth's or Hill East (the gentrified term better known as the area south of RFK Stadium where DC General once stood) with some combination of public-private funding and build where it couldn't on Reservoir Road.

However, since MedStar acts in its own self-interest and not for Georgetown, it figured out a away where it could consume all remaining open space on the hospital campus instead.

Next to Mount Vernon, the circumstances leading to the sale of the Medical School was the second worst business decision GU has made in the last 100 years.

Doctors and hospital execs are, by and large, suburban McMansion dwellers who were slow to recognize the resurgence of core urban areas.

The second part of that statement may be true, but the first part is a sweeping generalization that's simply not true.

[RusskyHoya]

Mar 22, 2016 11:47:14 GMT -5 kchoya said:

Mar 22, 2016 11:29:03 GMT -5 RusskyHoya said:

Doctors and hospital execs are, by and large, suburban McMansion dwellers who were slow to recognize the resurgence of core urban areas.

The second part of that statement may be true, but the first part is a sweeping generalization that's simply not true.

The McMansion part was glib, but in terms of the for-profit hospital/medical industry (not talking about the folks on ER working in inner-city Chicago), it is a very suburbanized/exurbanized profession. There are excellent treatments of this topic in James Schafer's "The Business of Private Medical Practice: Doctors, Specialization, and Urban Change in Philadelphia, 1900-1940" and "Medicine Moves to the Mall" by David Charles Sloane and Beverlie Conant Sloane.

Besides, don't you live in Idaho? What do you know about cities? (kidding, kidding, etc.)