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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 23, 2016 11:45:33 GMT -5
1) Lower the curtains in the 400's behind the baskets (never realized they were there until I looked while completely bored during the 2nd half of X game), 2) Show replays of questionable calls or highlights on the big screen (Maryland does this and it gets the crowd hyped), 3) Lower the lights in the arena to give Verizon a Barclays center feel, 4) Change up the tired song band selections & in-game promos a bit, 5) Add a strength coach & metrics coach (out of JTIII pocket by the way per my other thread), 6) Really promote this Cooper Athletic Leadership Program as a differentiator of our program in recruiting, 7) Get a new in-game announcer. That guy sounds like his heart is barely beating. I want a rucker hype man type, 8) Suggestions?
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 23, 2016 12:03:34 GMT -5
I would exhaust all available possibilities to renegotiate the Verizon deal to permit at least one or two smaller games to be played on campus. Maybe that's already been done. But we know we have played one on campus in the recent past.
I would go so far as to suggest that it would be almost worth while to simply pay them the payment we would have given them for that game, and then just play it at McDonough. In other words, pay them for nothing. Surely, we could negotiate some amount down from that; maybe we pay them a significant amount and if they fill that date with something else, we pay even less. What's the downside for them? They have the possibility of two revenue streams from one date.
I'd be willing to do that because, right now, we get nothing from playing one or two of those awful games inside Verizon. That is, we already are essentially paying for nothing. And the upside for us to playing one or two in McDonough is significant. First (and ODU notwithstanding), it's simply much less likely we lose the game, since we're guaranteed a loud, boisterous crowd. I think this season proves that this is a non-insignificant point. Second, it's much more likely we get more students interested in the team and the experience. I get that as soon as they come to a Verizon game, they won't be quite as enthused (and many won't be lasting or consistent fans), but if you create even 25 more enthused fans among the students (each year) by giving them that kind of experience and it carries over to Verizon, you've done something quite valuable.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 23, 2016 13:24:05 GMT -5
aleutianhoya, I totally agree with regard to McDonough. I think that there should be at least 1-2 games played in McDonough early on in the season. These games will surely be the awful opponents (better ones wouldn't agree to play in McDonough), but just being on campus will generate buzz and excitement, like the NIT West Virginia game did a few seasons ago. I think if you show students that the games can be fun on campus, they will be a lot more likely to venture out to the Verizon Center later in the season. As you noted, it might only create a small set of new enthused fans, but even that is much better than what we have now.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Feb 23, 2016 13:34:34 GMT -5
As a parent of a current student I can tell you that a lot more students would attend games if they were on campus. My daughter went to the NIT game a few years back and said it was a great time and the crowd was really into it. Not sure why renovating McDonough can't be part of the master campus planning. I realize you are never going to get a 10,000 seat arena on campus but enlarging that to maybe 5-6,000 would make for a great on campus venue for those OOC games and even some mid week BE games. I know there are lots of places for the school to be spending their money these days but I would think that once the new practice facility is completed they could start plans to renovate/enlarge McDonough
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HometownHoya
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Post by HometownHoya on Feb 23, 2016 13:38:25 GMT -5
As a parent of a current student I can tell you that a lot more students would attend games if they were on campus. My daughter went to the NIT game a few years back and said it was a great time and the crowd was really into it. Not sure why renovating McDonough can't be part of the master campus planning. I realize you are never going to get a 10,000 seat arena on campus but enlarging that to maybe 5-6,000 would make for a great on campus venue for those OOC games and even some mid week BE games. I know there are lots of places for the school to be spending their money these days but I would think that once the new practice facility is completed they could start plans to renovate/enlarge McDonough We would still be AT LEAST 5 years out from having that ready. Probably more like 10+ since we'd have to include it in the next 10 year Campus Plan.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Feb 23, 2016 14:15:54 GMT -5
More patient fans willing to offer their unconditional support would be a good start. We ought to have a packed Verizon for Senior Day on Saturday. The fact that we will not is a big problem. Ask not what your team can do for you...
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 23, 2016 20:59:28 GMT -5
Like I've said in other threads, it is so sad to leave a recent game at Verizon and when I get home watch a rocking game at Duke or Maryland or Kansas. The kids are having such a great time. You know i've been to some great games at Cap Center and Verizon (beating #1 Duke, winning BE championship game against Syracuse) but some of my favorite memories are those pre-JT2 games at McDonough. The team was pretty awful but the atmosphere was unbelievable. It would be great for the kids to play some early OOC games, especially weekday games there.
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Post by The Man on Feb 23, 2016 21:37:14 GMT -5
Here are some simple ideas 1. Bus students to the game. Take the free tshirt money from sponsors and use it for buses. Students will go if you take them. 2. A few early games at McDonough each year. Build some momentum. 3. Here's a doozy - play one early season game on Cooper Field. Can't do it? Well we played on a battleship. Instead of flying to Italy or Hawaii or Bahamas - take that money and buy a court that you can put outside. Under the lights a game on cooper field. That would be crazy but it would get buzz and be fun. You can't tell me that you wouldn't want to be at that game. Rain site would be McDonough.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Feb 23, 2016 22:12:56 GMT -5
Here are some simple ideas 1. Bus students to the game. Take the free tshirt money from sponsors and use it for buses. Students will go if you take them. 2. A few early games at McDonough each year. Build some momentum. 3. Here's a doozy - play one early season game on Cooper Field. Can't do it? Well we played on a battleship. Instead of flying to Italy or Hawaii or Bahamas - take that money and buy a court that you can put outside. Under the lights a game on cooper field. That would be crazy but it would get buzz and be fun. You can't tell me that you wouldn't want to be at that game. Rain site would be McDonough. Not sure when they started offering buses, but this was posted on the seton hall articles thread.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 24, 2016 8:50:58 GMT -5
BOOM, love that idea The Man. Outside the box stuff like this can generate buzz. Sure it would probably be a disaster if on a windy or rainy day but it could be fun. Calipari has been really creative on this stuff. The Kentucky only pro day, all the free PR he gets a la Trump can generate buzz and get things headed in the right direction.
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Post by guvoicesports on Feb 24, 2016 11:57:49 GMT -5
I would exhaust all available possibilities to renegotiate the Verizon deal to permit at least one or two smaller games to be played on campus. Maybe that's already been done. But we know we have played one on campus in the recent past. I would go so far as to suggest that it would be almost worth while to simply pay them the payment we would have given them for that game, and then just play it at McDonough. In other words, pay them for nothing. Surely, we could negotiate some amount down from that; maybe we pay them a significant amount and if they fill that date with something else, we pay even less. What's the downside for them? They have the possibility of two revenue streams from one date. I'd be willing to do that because, right now, we get nothing from playing one or two of those awful games inside Verizon. That is, we already are essentially paying for nothing. And the upside for us to playing one or two in McDonough is significant. First (and ODU notwithstanding), it's simply much less likely we lose the game, since we're guaranteed a loud, boisterous crowd. I think this season proves that this is a non-insignificant point. Second, it's much more likely we get more students interested in the team and the experience. I get that as soon as they come to a Verizon game, they won't be quite as enthused (and many won't be lasting or consistent fans), but if you create even 25 more enthused fans among the students (each year) by giving them that kind of experience and it carries over to Verizon, you've done something quite valuable. I've spoken with Lee Reed about this in the past and he said that it doesn't make financial sense to play one or two smaller games on campus. The University cannot make money off of that. He said that when the school plays the Monmouths and UNC Asheville of the world, they're already $75-90,000 in the hole by paying those teams to come up to DC. If you move those games to McDonough, there are only so many tickets that you can sell and actually make money. For example, he said that you have to almost give about quarter to half of the arena to students who are paying for their tickets at a significant discount. Then you have to give X amount of tickets to the coaching staff, players, and other administration officials for both Georgetown and the visiting team. And once you do that, you only have so many tickets that you can sell, which will come nowhere near making up that $75-90,000 guarantee to the visitor. Unless the economics of big-time college sports change overnight, this unfortunately will continue to be the case.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 24, 2016 12:33:46 GMT -5
I would exhaust all available possibilities to renegotiate the Verizon deal to permit at least one or two smaller games to be played on campus. Maybe that's already been done. But we know we have played one on campus in the recent past. I would go so far as to suggest that it would be almost worth while to simply pay them the payment we would have given them for that game, and then just play it at McDonough. In other words, pay them for nothing. Surely, we could negotiate some amount down from that; maybe we pay them a significant amount and if they fill that date with something else, we pay even less. What's the downside for them? They have the possibility of two revenue streams from one date. I'd be willing to do that because, right now, we get nothing from playing one or two of those awful games inside Verizon. That is, we already are essentially paying for nothing. And the upside for us to playing one or two in McDonough is significant. First (and ODU notwithstanding), it's simply much less likely we lose the game, since we're guaranteed a loud, boisterous crowd. I think this season proves that this is a non-insignificant point. Second, it's much more likely we get more students interested in the team and the experience. I get that as soon as they come to a Verizon game, they won't be quite as enthused (and many won't be lasting or consistent fans), but if you create even 25 more enthused fans among the students (each year) by giving them that kind of experience and it carries over to Verizon, you've done something quite valuable. I've spoken with Lee Reed about this in the past and he said that it doesn't make financial sense to play one or two smaller games on campus. The University cannot make money off of that. He said that when the school plays the Monmouths and UNC Asheville of the world, they're already $75-90,000 in the hole by paying those teams to come up to DC. If you move those games to McDonough, there are only so many tickets that you can sell and actually make money. For example, he said that you have to almost give about quarter to half of the arena to students who are paying for their tickets at a significant discount. Then you have to give X amount of tickets to the coaching staff, players, and other administration officials for both Georgetown and the visiting team. And once you do that, you only have so many tickets that you can sell, which will come nowhere near making up that $75-90,000 guarantee to the visitor. Unless the economics of big-time college sports change overnight, this unfortunately will continue to be the case. I get all that. Regardless of where we play we have to pay the same $75K to UNCA. And we have to give away the same (or at least a similar) number of tickets to students/admin/etc. Those are all sunk costs regardless of where we play. The question is: how much do we get back in ticket sales at Verizon for those games? And how does that number compare to how much we'd get in sales at McDonough? Presumably, at Verizon, our only real revenue is the per-game share of the season ticket cost that our season ticket base is paying (we're not making anything on walk-up sales for those games). The prices are different depending on location, so I don't know quite how to do the math. But someone obviously could easily do it with all the information about how many season ticket holders we have and where they sit. So, the only consideration is how much revenue are we getting from our season ticket-holders for that one game vs. how much could we get from them by playing at McDonough? For all the reasons Mr. Reed mentions, it's going to be a loss -- our season ticket base is too high to accommodate them all at McDonough. But SOME of that loss can be made up for by requesting a slightly higher price for that one ticket -- and alumni may well pay a bit more to see a McDonough game (and you only need some of them too since you can't accommodate them all anyway). I'd try to make the game one that isn't a complete dreg of an opponent -- similar to what we did with ODU -- as a way to ensure a sufficient amount of alumi/fan interest at even the higher cost. And we do get some amount of revenue (concessions, even if they're crappy, for example, though that may be completely mitigated by having to pay people to staff the game; I don't know how the economics work entirely). Regardless, whatever we do, our revenue is not going to get anywhere near all the way there. And we still have to deal with the rental fee expense at Verizon, which we may be able to negotiate down, but aren't going to be able to negotiate away or anything close to it. So, surely, we're going to take a hit. I get it. But how much more of a hit is it than we already take playing UNCA in Verizon? Are we making a profit on that game right now, given the rental fee? It's worth knowing the numbers. And then the sole consideration is: Is it worth an extra $100K hit (just once a year) to have an exciting event on campus? Is it worth $200K? More? Mr. Reed can't really think about it just in terms of "making money" at one venue versus another. Instead, whatever the loss is needs to be thought of as a marketing expense -- no different than how we think about the "loss" of reduced-price student tickets or advertising on the radio or in print. And the question then is how expensive would it be, and what do you think you might gain. I don't think it's worth $500K, for example. But I do think if you crunch the numbers and figure it's an additional $100K it's a no-brainer to do it. And you'd think about it at $200K even (or maybe at least doing it once every other year). Maybe the numbers simply don't work -- I'm willing to concede I don't know -- but if all they're doing is looking at one venue versus another in terms of expense/revenue, they're not really thinking about it the right way. EDIT: There's lots of other purely variables, too, that aren't considered above, but somebody smart could consider. To just name one: there probably are at least a handful of people that currently aren't season ticket holders because they don't want to pay to attend the cruddy games at Verizon. But, if you removed one (or, even better, two) of those cruddy games and reduced the season ticket price accordingly, they might pony up. I'm not saying it's a ton, but every bit helps. And that's increased revenue for the program, too.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 24, 2016 13:11:13 GMT -5
I am sure it would be very unpalatable to the season ticketholders, but if revenue is an issue, let the students in for whatever the normal price would be, but charge everybody else more. It's pure supply and demand. There is less supply and possibly more demand for McDonough, so let the prices reflect that.
Practically, however, I realize that would likely aggravate tons of season ticketholders, so I am not sure it's feasible. But, it's an idea.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Feb 24, 2016 13:26:08 GMT -5
The key here would be that you are trying to energize the student body to support the team better. Having a few games on campus where the atmosphere will be great and the kids will have a good time might just convince some of those students, who never go to the Verizon Center, to give it a try later in the season. I am sure the money would not work out great for the school, especially with only the 1,500 -2,000 seat currently in McDonough, but if you could renovate the place and increase it to maybe 5 - 6,000, then maybe it starts to get closer to a break even.
I realize this would be years away, at best, but I would think it would be worth at least looking into the option if the school is concerned about the lack of support for the program.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 24, 2016 13:26:29 GMT -5
I am sure it would be very unpalatable to the season ticketholders, but if revenue is an issue, let the students in for whatever the normal price would be, but charge everybody else more. It's pure supply and demand. There is less supply and possibly more demand for McDonough, so let the prices reflect that. Practically, however, I realize that would likely aggravate tons of season ticketholders, so I am not sure it's feasible. But, it's an idea. The season-ticket holders on the board (I'm not one) can speak to it, but I don't think it would really aggravate anyone. Many (most?) of the season-ticket holders would, by and large, prefer to not pay what they are forced to pay to see UNCA at Verizon; here, they wouldn't have to. Some of those (hopefully enough to fill the joint) would be willing to pay an increased price to see UNCA at McDonough. But nobody is out anything they don't want to be out. The numbers may not work for the department, but I don't think there's any risk of alienating any of our fans.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 24, 2016 13:32:50 GMT -5
I am sure it would be very unpalatable to the season ticketholders, but if revenue is an issue, let the students in for whatever the normal price would be, but charge everybody else more. It's pure supply and demand. There is less supply and possibly more demand for McDonough, so let the prices reflect that. Practically, however, I realize that would likely aggravate tons of season ticketholders, so I am not sure it's feasible. But, it's an idea. I've been a season ticket holder since 1980. It would not be unpalatable to me if there are early season (i.e., non-BE) games at McD that aren't part of my season package to give the current students an on-campus experience. Even if those were part of the season package, it is unlikely I'd attend simply because of the transportation/parking issue with an on-campus event. In that case, I'd donate the tix back to the Athletic Department to distribute if it has that capability.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Feb 24, 2016 13:54:54 GMT -5
I would exhaust all available possibilities to renegotiate the Verizon deal to permit at least one or two smaller games to be played on campus. Maybe that's already been done. But we know we have played one on campus in the recent past. I would go so far as to suggest that it would be almost worth while to simply pay them the payment we would have given them for that game, and then just play it at McDonough. In other words, pay them for nothing. Surely, we could negotiate some amount down from that; maybe we pay them a significant amount and if they fill that date with something else, we pay even less. What's the downside for them? They have the possibility of two revenue streams from one date. I'd be willing to do that because, right now, we get nothing from playing one or two of those awful games inside Verizon. That is, we already are essentially paying for nothing. And the upside for us to playing one or two in McDonough is significant. First (and ODU notwithstanding), it's simply much less likely we lose the game, since we're guaranteed a loud, boisterous crowd. I think this season proves that this is a non-insignificant point. Second, it's much more likely we get more students interested in the team and the experience. I get that as soon as they come to a Verizon game, they won't be quite as enthused (and many won't be lasting or consistent fans), but if you create even 25 more enthused fans among the students (each year) by giving them that kind of experience and it carries over to Verizon, you've done something quite valuable. I've spoken with Lee Reed about this in the past and he said that it doesn't make financial sense to play one or two smaller games on campus. The University cannot make money off of that. He said that when the school plays the Monmouths and UNC Asheville of the world, they're already $75-90,000 in the hole by paying those teams to come up to DC. If you move those games to McDonough, there are only so many tickets that you can sell and actually make money. For example, he said that you have to almost give about quarter to half of the arena to students who are paying for their tickets at a significant discount. Then you have to give X amount of tickets to the coaching staff, players, and other administration officials for both Georgetown and the visiting team. And once you do that, you only have so many tickets that you can sell, which will come nowhere near making up that $75-90,000 guarantee to the visitor. Unless the economics of big-time college sports change overnight, this unfortunately will continue to be the case. Thanks - it's nice to have some actual reporting on this rather than the usual conjecture and supposition that dominates our discussions. In regard to eliminating Fr. McFadden as suggested upthread - my answer is no.
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lichoya68
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OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 24, 2016 14:48:56 GMT -5
WIN THEY WILL COME nuf said MUST KEEP ALL OUR CURRENT PLAYERS FOR NEXT YEAR that is the MOST important recruitment issue IMO. go hoyas we are Georgetown now for PRIDE MUST WIN lets go
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Feb 24, 2016 15:06:00 GMT -5
I would exhaust all available possibilities to renegotiate the Verizon deal to permit at least one or two smaller games to be played on campus. Maybe that's already been done. But we know we have played one on campus in the recent past. I would go so far as to suggest that it would be almost worth while to simply pay them the payment we would have given them for that game, and then just play it at McDonough. In other words, pay them for nothing. Surely, we could negotiate some amount down from that; maybe we pay them a significant amount and if they fill that date with something else, we pay even less. What's the downside for them? They have the possibility of two revenue streams from one date. I'd be willing to do that because, right now, we get nothing from playing one or two of those awful games inside Verizon. That is, we already are essentially paying for nothing. And the upside for us to playing one or two in McDonough is significant. First (and ODU notwithstanding), it's simply much less likely we lose the game, since we're guaranteed a loud, boisterous crowd. I think this season proves that this is a non-insignificant point. Second, it's much more likely we get more students interested in the team and the experience. I get that as soon as they come to a Verizon game, they won't be quite as enthused (and many won't be lasting or consistent fans), but if you create even 25 more enthused fans among the students (each year) by giving them that kind of experience and it carries over to Verizon, you've done something quite valuable. I've spoken with Lee Reed about this in the past and he said that it doesn't make financial sense to play one or two smaller games on campus. The University cannot make money off of that. He said that when the school plays the Monmouths and UNC Asheville of the world, they're already $75-90,000 in the hole by paying those teams to come up to DC. If you move those games to McDonough, there are only so many tickets that you can sell and actually make money. For example, he said that you have to almost give about quarter to half of the arena to students who are paying for their tickets at a significant discount. Then you have to give X amount of tickets to the coaching staff, players, and other administration officials for both Georgetown and the visiting team. And once you do that, you only have so many tickets that you can sell, which will come nowhere near making up that $75-90,000 guarantee to the visitor. Unless the economics of big-time college sports change overnight, this unfortunately will continue to be the case. And yet this somehow made enough sense that Muir did it to kick off 2006-07, and that was apparently not enough of a financial calamity to prevent (I believe interim AD Porterfield) from scheduling another similar game three years later right before Christmas break of the 2009-10 season. I graduated in 2010 so I was fortunate enough to be a student for both ODU games at McDonough. Even though we lost both, these were among the most fun times I had at a basketball game during my time on campus. The point is to increase interest with an on campus game in a great atmosphere, which both gets students who are already fans excited for the season and potential casual fans interested in how fun basketball games can be. The point is not to look at the immediate marginal return the revenue/expense of holding a game at Verizon vs. McDonough. That the current athletic department is looking at it through this lens both speaks volumes and is sadly entirely unsurprising.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Feb 24, 2016 15:26:20 GMT -5
I would exhaust all available possibilities to renegotiate the Verizon deal to permit at least one or two smaller games to be played on campus. Maybe that's already been done. But we know we have played one on campus in the recent past. I would go so far as to suggest that it would be almost worth while to simply pay them the payment we would have given them for that game, and then just play it at McDonough. In other words, pay them for nothing. Surely, we could negotiate some amount down from that; maybe we pay them a significant amount and if they fill that date with something else, we pay even less. What's the downside for them? They have the possibility of two revenue streams from one date. I'd be willing to do that because, right now, we get nothing from playing one or two of those awful games inside Verizon. That is, we already are essentially paying for nothing. And the upside for us to playing one or two in McDonough is significant. First (and ODU notwithstanding), it's simply much less likely we lose the game, since we're guaranteed a loud, boisterous crowd. I think this season proves that this is a non-insignificant point. Second, it's much more likely we get more students interested in the team and the experience. I get that as soon as they come to a Verizon game, they won't be quite as enthused (and many won't be lasting or consistent fans), but if you create even 25 more enthused fans among the students (each year) by giving them that kind of experience and it carries over to Verizon, you've done something quite valuable. I've spoken with Lee Reed about this in the past and he said that it doesn't make financial sense to play one or two smaller games on campus. The University cannot make money off of that. He said that when the school plays the Monmouths and UNC Asheville of the world, they're already $75-90,000 in the hole by paying those teams to come up to DC. If you move those games to McDonough, there are only so many tickets that you can sell and actually make money. For example, he said that you have to almost give about quarter to half of the arena to students who are paying for their tickets at a significant discount. Then you have to give X amount of tickets to the coaching staff, players, and other administration officials for both Georgetown and the visiting team. And once you do that, you only have so many tickets that you can sell, which will come nowhere near making up that $75-90,000 guarantee to the visitor. Unless the economics of big-time college sports change overnight, this unfortunately will continue to be the case. If that is Lee Reed's point of view (only looking at his immediate profit per game) then perhaps we are headed even further in the wrong direction. Obviously what they are doing is not working and the most glaring issue is the student section. Any loss on this campus game would be a marketing cost. Take it right out of the marketing budget. The key is to get kids excited about the team again and let the students truly see this team as their classmates. I would be all for opening the season on campus against some terrible opponent and hosting another game during finals on campus. You cannot tell me those two games will ruin the economics of Hoyas basketball, especially given we make more TV money now than at any other time in our history with the FS1 contract. Perhaps, after this type of season, Reed or III would come around to this idea, but the short-term, money-is-king approach is simply wrong right now. III needs to win the students back, this is the most obivous way and has been successful in the past.
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