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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 18, 2016 20:23:28 GMT -5
I have been a Hoya fan since 1982. I have never seen the demeanor and body language--or lack of enthusiasm from the bench as I saw last night. I'm at a lost for words, quite frankly. I'm I out there on an island on this?
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,769
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Post by njhoya78 on Feb 18, 2016 20:46:09 GMT -5
No, you're not. I think there's something else happening about which we do not know.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,382
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Post by drquigley on Feb 18, 2016 21:19:31 GMT -5
I think we have all thought this. Very strange vibe coming from the players and coaches. Is it a cause or effect of losses?
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 18, 2016 22:02:16 GMT -5
Yea I mean no one knows for sure and we probably never will know if there's some sort of internal friction. The cause or effect question is an interesting one. I mean we had a pretty bad season 2 years ago but the one thing you could never question was the leadership, heart, and effort of that group (outside of Josh Smith). And it's fair to question all of those things this year. That's the most disappointing part in my view
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Eurostar
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,094
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Post by Eurostar on Feb 18, 2016 22:13:43 GMT -5
Effect of the losses. This team just isn't as talented as I thought they were and the lack of creativity on offense doesn't help. When we lost to some random European team in Italy, I started to get concerned.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 18, 2016 23:20:21 GMT -5
Effect of the losses. This team just isn't as talented as I thought they were and the lack of creativity on offense doesn't help. When we lost to some random European team in Italy, I started to get concerned. True, but I'm watching the interactions between players, the seemingly inability to motivate, either on the part of the coaches or the team's captains, and it just seems like there is something, or some things that are driving a wedge between players. Last night's game was painful and the announcers even made several references to the "body language of the Georgetown players." I know JT-3 runs a tight ship, but, in this case, it might be better for him to share exactly what is going on. This could impact everything from questions about his coaching ability to recruiting. Now, I won't be waiting with abated breath for it.
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OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,387
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 19, 2016 2:24:22 GMT -5
Let me first say that any player that fulfills his commitment to a university for four years and gets his degree should be applauded. So my caps off to DSR for coming back and honoring his commitment to Georgetown. Now let me make an observation of his play this year. It has been puzzling and very underwhelming. I remember watching him in nationally televised games during some of his HS games and coming away thinking that the Hoyas had made a coup signing him. On that team were two McDonold's All Americans Lewis the pg and Adams the sg. I thought that DSR was a better player because he let the game come to him without being a ball hawk like Adams and still was able to score when the team needed him. That unselfish trait or demurring personality is what I think is one of the problems this year. As a freshmen, Markel was the Alpha Dog at pg and Otto provided whatever else was needed by the team so all he had to do was concentrate on scoring. His sophmore year Martel was stil the Alpha Dog and Jabril was called upon to do the other things needed to win. His junior year out of necessity he was the pg, but he still had Jabril to be the Alpha Dog and do the things needed to win. This year there is no Jabril and he was forced to try to be the Alpha Dog and play pg. Unfortunately, he is just not equipped physically and mentally to be either. This year's NCAA hopes are over absent winning the BE, I think DSR should continue to start in deference to him coming back for his senior year but Peak should start at pg and be told to drive the ball whenever possible to the basket. He should also be told to look first to pass instead of score in the first half to practice that skill for next year ,because the Hoyas will need him to be the play maker next year to keep the Hoyas from repeating this year. I have to echo what most have said about the dissapointment of Tre's lack of improvement this year. He too is not a real pg and lacks the will to drive to the basket through contact. The pg is the floor general, he sets the attitude of the rest of the players. When DSR is playing passively, the rest of the team takes that lead and plays that way also. If PEAK practices lowering his dribble and passing over the summer he could become close to Dunn's effectiveness for this team.
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Post by michaelgrahamfan on Feb 19, 2016 8:25:49 GMT -5
Could not agree more about lack of team leadership. One would think that if possible JTIII would try and pick up some of that lack of fire, but he may be as ill equipped as DSR. It has been a long time since we had a pass first point guard with an attitude. Golden Hoya's post is on the money. I feel we have wasted the talents of a very deep team (e.g. Mourning) due to a lack of leadership.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,508
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Post by bostonfan on Feb 19, 2016 8:35:44 GMT -5
DSR plays at a very controlled, patient pace and that had worked fine for him until this year when he became the real vocal point of other teams defense. He is simply not quick enough or athletic enough to consistently create plays for himself or his teammates. The pace he plays at seems to slow down the rest of the team. They have enough athletic players that they should be able to attack the rim more often, but other than LJ no one seems to have that mindset. The rest of the team defers to DSR and that is not a good use of the abilities of those other players. They all need to play with a sense of urgency and more pace. Probably too late to save this year but hopefully they can start making progress toward next year's team.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,910
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Post by Filo on Feb 19, 2016 9:01:40 GMT -5
All valid discussion points but it seems like a chicken-or-egg issue to me. I think it more likely that the body language and chemistry issues are simply the result of having a dismal year. If we as fans are this frustrated, imagine how frustrated these young men are at the way this season has gone.
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Feb 19, 2016 9:17:13 GMT -5
Winning on the floor solves these problems.
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Post by practice on Feb 19, 2016 9:49:03 GMT -5
The same was said about the crew of the Titanic after the ship hit the iceberg.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,744
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 19, 2016 10:05:21 GMT -5
It doesn't even need to be something sinister or even off the court.
This team plays terribly together. On offense and defense. It's our #1 overall issue, though it could probably be broken down into different components (no hustle, no one seems to be able to make a decision, no communication, no one knows where to go, no one trusts in their teammates because of the previous).
Why? Maybe there's an off the court thing. Maybe it's basketball related. But no team can survive with as little on the court chemistry as this team has.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 19, 2016 10:18:52 GMT -5
It doesn't even need to be something sinister or even off the court. This team plays terribly together. On offense and defense. It's our #1 overall issue, though it could probably be broken down into different components (no hustle, no one seems to be able to make a decision, no communication, no one knows where to go, no one trusts in their teammates because of the previous). Why? Maybe there's an off the court thing. Maybe it's basketball related. But no team can survive with as little on the court chemistry as this team has. "Chemistry" is such a vague term and, you're right, it often connotes something sinister when it need not be. Coach K has famously said (although the concept certainly isn't unique to him or particularly creative) that on each of his teams, he teaches three "systems": offense, defense, and communication. He views the third as most important to building an excellent team and builds verbal and non-verbal communication into every team-based drill they do. Again, I don't think it's particularly insightful in a vacuum, but it is insightful to see how important he views on-court communication (really, another word for on-court chemistry). It's just as important as their general offense and defense. And, as you say, that's the issue. We simply too often don't properly act as a single unit on both ends of the court, which requires communication. Plenty of successful teams have guys on them that don't like each other -- so I view the off-court stuff as more often an effect than a cause. I also mention the K stuff to note that chemistry can be built and is something that can be worked on and improved (or at least K thinks so).
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,304
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Post by prhoya on Feb 19, 2016 10:24:37 GMT -5
At the beginning of the season, as Reggie was having good games after a bad soph season, he answered a reporter's question by saying (and I'm paraphrasing) that when things go bad during a game, it's great to have someone like DSR to lead the team through it. Think about that and what we have seen so far.
SFHoya's signature is illustrative of the subtle messages JT3 was sending at the beginning of the season: "Kaleb at this point is not the offensive player that Otto was, but as it related to the effort he puts out, the caring and the effect he has on the game and the energy he gives and the confidence he gives his teammates is something he's very good at and hopefully other people will start to do that also."
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,304
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Post by prhoya on Feb 19, 2016 10:27:31 GMT -5
Effect of the losses. This team just isn't as talented as I thought they were and the lack of creativity on offense doesn't help. When we lost to some random European team in Italy, I started to get concerned. Yes, I kind of put that aside because DSR, Bradley, and White weren't playing. Please help me remember: why didn't DSR play in Italy?
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,312
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 19, 2016 10:30:01 GMT -5
Effect of the losses. This team just isn't as talented as I thought they were and the lack of creativity on offense doesn't help. When we lost to some random European team in Italy, I started to get concerned. Yes, I kind of put that aside because DSR, Bradley, and White weren't playing. Please help me remember: why didn't DSR play in Italy? He had an ankle injury. www.thehoya.com/derrickson-shines-as-hoyas-earn-3-wins-on-italy-trip/
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 19, 2016 10:34:12 GMT -5
THIS IS WHY YOU NEED A TRUE POINT GUARD/GUARDS! .. WHEN YOUR POINT GUARD IS PLAYING WELL YOUR TEAM NORMALLY PLAYS WELL. WHEN YOUR POINT GUARD GOES SOUTH, YOUR TEAM GOES SOUTH. IT'S SIMPLE, BUT YOU HAVE TO KNOW ABOUT POINT GUARD PLAY AND HOW CRITICAL AND UNDERRATED THIS POSITION IS.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 19, 2016 10:35:15 GMT -5
No, you're not. I think there's something else happening about which we do not know. ME TOO ..SEEMS LIKE SOME LOCKER ROOM ISSUES AND YOU BEST BELIEVE THERE'S AN AGENT SOMEWHERE IN DSR'S HEAD TELLING HIM TO PUT UP NUMBERS FOR THE NEXT LEVEL WHETHER IT BE NBA OR OVERSEAS!!!
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Feb 19, 2016 10:40:15 GMT -5
Let me first say that any player that fulfills his commitment to a university for four years and gets his degree should be applauded. So my caps off to DSR for coming back and honoring his commitment to Georgetown. Now let me make an observation of his play this year. It has been puzzling and very underwhelming. I remember watching him in nationally televised games during some of his HS games and coming away thinking that the Hoyas had made a coup signing him. On that team were two McDonold's All Americans Lewis the pg and Adams the sg. I thought that DSR was a better player because he let the game come to him without being a ball hawk like Adams and still was able to score when the team needed him. That unselfish trait or demurring personality is what I think is one of the problems this year. As a freshmen, Markel was the Alpha Dog at pg and Otto provided whatever else was needed by the team so all he had to do was concentrate on scoring. His sophmore year Martel was stil the Alpha Dog and Jabril was called upon to do the other things needed to win. His junior year out of necessity he was the pg, but he still had Jabril to be the Alpha Dog and do the things needed to win. This year there is no Jabril and he was forced to try to be the Alpha Dog and play pg. Unfortunately, he is just not equipped physically and mentally to be either. This year's NCAA hopes are over absent winning the BE, I think DSR should continue to start in deference to him coming back for his senior year but Peak should start at pg and be told to drive the ball whenever possible to the basket. He should also be told to look first to pass instead of score in the first half to practice that skill for next year ,because the Hoyas will need him to be the play maker next year to keep the Hoyas from repeating this year. I have to echo what most have said about the dissapointment of Tre's lack of improvement this year. He too is not a real pg and lacks the will to drive to the basket through contact. The pg is the floor general, he sets the attitude of the rest of the players. When DSR is playing passively, the rest of the team takes that lead and plays that way also. If PEAK practices lowering his dribble and passing over the summer he could become close to Dunn's effectiveness for this team. Exactly the POINT GUARD on that Oak Hill team was Butler's Tyler Lewis, not DSR, although he did run some point at times. He still didn't know point guard play though. When DSR lets the game come to him he's very good, but he doesn't all time. This is where the inconsistencies come in at. I've been saying to put Peak on the ball since he's been here. He's a beast on the ball and makes good decisions. The offense better when he's running the point and he has Tre to back him up. This will also make Tre better at this position because he see's Peakshow attacking and he will as well. You're spot on bro!
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