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Post by aleutianhoya on Feb 10, 2016 9:46:41 GMT -5
Right on target as usual, but I'd add two more points: 1. Georgetown sends a tacit message to students that men's basketball is the only sport that matters. Whereas other schools promote sports as community building initiatives all year long, it's not the case at GU. Below are the home attendance figures for team sports - remember, this is a on-campus population of over 5,000 at this point: Men's Basketball: 8,919 (down 20% in four years) Football: 2,482 Men's Lacrosse: 999 Men's Soccer: 959 Women's Soccer: 701 Women's Basketball: 547 Field Hockey: 349 Baseball (off-campus): 312 Volleyball: 194 Softball (off-campus): 114 2. There is a visible lack of student leadership when it comes to team support. It's too easy to call them self-indulgent individualists, but the days of Hoyamotion and even Hoya Blue are ancient history to people who are more worried about making their brunch reservations at Clyde's than whether they should be razzing Ben Bentil or Kris Dunn. The "student section" is out-hustled by the Stonewalls every game. As for the other sports, even worse. The attendance level for the soccer team, a national power at this point, is staggeringly low given that most kids could throw a rock from their dorms and hit Shaw Field. Even if soccer is not your thing, how do you not get behind a bunch of classmates who are so good at what they do? Full disclosure: I am a huge fan and the team and Coach are great friends to my son. It's really not that low relative to other powerful teams. Take Maryland, Indiana, and Virginia. Three schools with far larger histories of success in the sport, undergraduate populations 3-5 times larger than Georgetown's, and local alumni populations with far more allegiance generally. They average between 2,000 and 2,500 per game. Really, Georgetown's soccer attendance is high, relative to its peers, and normalizing for its size. So, it's not limited to Georgetown in the least. No one is going to "support" their fellow students (unless they have a personal friend on the team). Just not happening. More broadly, and across all sports (including FBS football), an incredibly high percentage of students simply don't attend these events, unless it's an absolute "event." Sure, if we won it would be better, and if we went to a final four or something, attendance would then be high. But even what you and me and anyone reasonable would consider to be a very good season wouldn't get these kids out to anything but the biggest games.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Feb 10, 2016 9:48:55 GMT -5
One of of the issues with the soccer attendance is that some of the games are played during the week and in the early afternoon, while most of the students have classes. The kids who are accepted at Georgetown are no the type of kids who skip class to go watch a soccer game, no matter how much they support their classmates and how good the team is. I am told that weekend games are pretty well attended and are getting more popular all the time as the program has more success.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Feb 10, 2016 10:19:01 GMT -5
Yes the overall attendance and student attendance of Monday's game was low, but I think the reasons are as simple as it was a week day game against a poor opponent when Georgetown is not a ranked team. Every conference game this season had a higher attendance than the St John's game, and the weekend conference games other than DePaul have been over 10,000. Just over a week ago there was nearly 15,000 people at the Providence game with a full student section. Providence, Villanova, and Syracuse were all great turnouts, and I'm sure Butler and Xavier will be close to that.
So sure, Monday felt like a game from the 2003-2004 season in terms of attendance and student attendance, but luckily it was more of an outlier this season than the norm.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 10, 2016 10:19:36 GMT -5
Watching the nearly empty student section at the St. John's game made me wonder. Do we, the alumni bloggers on this website care more about GU basketball than the students currently attending GU? Granted it was St. John's but heck "WHEN I WAS A GU STUDENT" we would take any opportunity to get get drunk and wander down to McDonough to see the Hoyas get slapped around by the like of GW, Maryland, and of course Syracuse. Is it the distance to Verizon, higher drinking age, or just more mature students? I think the answer is as simple as it seems. What percentage of the student body, in your estimation, cares about or knows about basketball in general? Mostly well off white kids from suburbia and prep schools. It doesn't make them bad people. It just makes them poorly informed. Going to the games isn't about the sport as much as it is about being with your friends and supporting your school and your classmates and going nuts over something that is just fun to be a part of. It's fun. I didn't love the trek out to Landover but I was always glad that I had gone. Care to explain further about why "well off white kids from suburbia and prep schools" are less likely to be interested in supporting the basketball team? And maybe you can also explain how the demographics have changed since the height of the JT3 era (or, heck, the height of the JT2 era)? Were there fewer "well off white kids from suburbia and prep schools" at Georgetown in 2006-2010? What about in the 1980s?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 10, 2016 11:08:42 GMT -5
I'd venture to say that our basketball program is not one of the top reasons that our current student body decided to attend Georgetown. Most are nerds. The others and bandwagoneer millennials who are only interested in the "experience." If we win they will come. Just winning in the regular season, regularly, will increase fan attendance. Also, let's not forget the impact of Super Bowl Monday on a SJU-GU game. I would include that most are very ambitious and passionate, and would like to own a sports team some day/have their own hedge fund/discover the cure for cancer/have a family/go abroad/start a business right after college/etc... With the cost of college these days, students have become professionals and rightfully so. If you are that type of student, then spending all the time boston described to go to a basketball game to watch a GU team play hot potato around the perimeter, brick a last second shot, look like they are disinterested against a Radford and commit 15 turnovers per game obviously is not for you. Change or improve the product and they will come.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 10, 2016 11:17:12 GMT -5
One of of the issues with the soccer attendance is that some of the games are played during the week and in the early afternoon, while most of the students have classes. The kids who are accepted at Georgetown are no the type of kids who skip class to go watch a soccer game, no matter how much they support their classmates and how good the team is. I am told that weekend games are pretty well attended and are getting more popular all the time as the program has more success. Very good point. That will set back the average attendance numbers.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Feb 10, 2016 11:23:15 GMT -5
One of of the issues with the soccer attendance is that some of the games are played during the week and in the early afternoon, while most of the students have classes. The kids who are accepted at Georgetown are no the type of kids who skip class to go watch a soccer game, no matter how much they support their classmates and how good the team is. I am told that weekend games are pretty well attended and are getting more popular all the time as the program has more success. So it is an admissions problem... Just kidding
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Post by arlingtonhoya05 on Feb 10, 2016 11:38:38 GMT -5
This is very simple, win. The Hoyas need to win to draw and this season has been extremely disappointing, especially the HOME losses to Monmouth, Radford, and UNC Ashville.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 10, 2016 11:39:52 GMT -5
It is simply a matter of priorities and options. In the 80s the product was better but we jackassed on freezing cold buses to Landover. We also had many fewer entertainment options and did not have screens and phones in front of our faces 24/7. Simply stated, there are many more options for kids today and the absence of a compelling product means you will not draw from around the margins. Right on target as usual, but I'd add two more points: 1. Georgetown sends a tacit message to students that men's basketball is the only sport that matters. Whereas other schools promote sports as community building initiatives all year long, it's not the case at GU. Below are the home attendance figures for team sports - remember, this is a on-campus population of over 5,000 at this point: Men's Basketball: 8,919 (down 20% in four years) Football: 2,482 Men's Lacrosse: 999 Men's Soccer: 959 Women's Soccer: 701 Women's Basketball: 547 Field Hockey: 349 Baseball (off-campus): 312 Volleyball: 194 Softball (off-campus): 114 2. There is a visible lack of student leadership when it comes to team support. It's too easy to call them self-indulgent individualists, but the days of Hoyamotion and even Hoya Blue are ancient history to people who are more worried about making their brunch reservations at Clyde's than whether they should be razzing Ben Bentil or Kris Dunn. The "student section" is out-hustled by the Stonewalls every game. As for the other sports, even worse. You talk about the trust fund babies and you're right, but what about the student who took out a student loan to pay for GU at $60,000 a year minus grant. Do you think that student would go regularly to field hockey or volleyball games during the week, nevermind off-campus softball? That student does not know the carefree days of college. He/she probably is in a work-study program for 20 hrs during the work week. He/she does not have the choice to think about going to an off-campus softball game, unless his/her roommate/lover/sibling is playing.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 10, 2016 11:51:57 GMT -5
Right on target as usual, but I'd add two more points: 1. Georgetown sends a tacit message to students that men's basketball is the only sport that matters. Whereas other schools promote sports as community building initiatives all year long, it's not the case at GU. Below are the home attendance figures for team sports - remember, this is a on-campus population of over 5,000 at this point: Men's Basketball: 8,919 (down 20% in four years) Football: 2,482 Men's Lacrosse: 999 Men's Soccer: 959 Women's Soccer: 701 Women's Basketball: 547 Field Hockey: 349 Baseball (off-campus): 312 Volleyball: 194 Softball (off-campus): 114 2. There is a visible lack of student leadership when it comes to team support. It's too easy to call them self-indulgent individualists, but the days of Hoyamotion and even Hoya Blue are ancient history to people who are more worried about making their brunch reservations at Clyde's than whether they should be razzing Ben Bentil or Kris Dunn. The "student section" is out-hustled by the Stonewalls every game. As for the other sports, even worse. You talk about the trust fund babies and you're right, but what about the student who took out a student loan to pay for GU at $60,000 a year minus grant. Do you think that student would go regularly to field hockey or volleyball games during the week, nevermind off-campus softball? That student does not know the carefree days of college. He/she probably is in a work-study program for 20 hrs during the work week. He/she does not have the choice to think about going to an off-campus softball game, unless his/her roommate/lover/sibling is playing. Weird how neither of those types of students were on campus before. It's not about "kids these days", too many white prep school kids or whatever. It's about the spectacular failures in the post season wearing down the fan base so that it's hard to care about the regular season, and its about the bad losses this year so that its easy to write the season off.
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joey0403p
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Post by joey0403p on Feb 10, 2016 11:59:17 GMT -5
Seems simple to me.
We have never NEVER had crazy rabid fans at the quantity to fill the booth on a regular basis (nor the cap center either) even when the team is really really good. The Tuesday night 7pm games are not well attended.
But if it's a good opponent that helps. If the team is really good that helps.
Don't think we've had those things this year.
We need to accept who we are a little. Our environment isn't like duke. That's ok. We are duke.
Calm down. The problem is the team has been bad this year. And no recent deep tourney run. The problem isn't the student body. I'd guess it's very similar to the past study bodies.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Feb 10, 2016 12:05:49 GMT -5
I think the answer is as simple as it seems. What percentage of the student body, in your estimation, cares about or knows about basketball in general? Mostly well off white kids from suburbia and prep schools. It doesn't make them bad people. It just makes them poorly informed. Going to the games isn't about the sport as much as it is about being with your friends and supporting your school and your classmates and going nuts over something that is just fun to be a part of. It's fun. I didn't love the trek out to Landover but I was always glad that I had gone. Care to explain further about why "well off white kids from suburbia and prep schools" are less likely to be interested in supporting the basketball team? And maybe you can also explain how the demographics have changed since the height of the JT3 era (or, heck, the height of the JT2 era)? Were there fewer "well off white kids from suburbia and prep schools" at Georgetown in 2006-2010? What about in the 1980s? I think the OP was saying that white prep school kids are more likely to be rabid fans, and that as the student body has gotten more diverse, international, etc., the students have had other priorities in their lives than watching sports. At least, I've seen that argument made here before.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Feb 10, 2016 12:35:24 GMT -5
Care to explain further about why "well off white kids from suburbia and prep schools" are less likely to be interested in supporting the basketball team? And maybe you can also explain how the demographics have changed since the height of the JT3 era (or, heck, the height of the JT2 era)? Were there fewer "well off white kids from suburbia and prep schools" at Georgetown in 2006-2010? What about in the 1980s? I think the OP was saying that white prep school kids are more likely to be rabid fans, and that as the student body has gotten more diverse, international, etc., the students have had other priorities in their lives than watching sports. At least, I've seen that argument made here before. Ahh, I missed that. Now I feel stupid.
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Post by trillesthoya on Feb 10, 2016 12:41:28 GMT -5
On campus there is a general consensus that JT3 won't lead our team to any significant victory and that whenever our team does show any small glimmers of hope they will be immediately crushed. Currently only the senior class was at Georgetown long enough to see the original big east, everyone else now doesn't really know the intensity of a Syracuse game. Sure we have some good teams in the new big east, but the level of hatred is nowhere near the same.
And that's just for maybe half of the student body. Everyone else on campus has absolutely no interest in the team and hasn't seen a game in their life. People will go to games but that's more of something to do to demonstrate school spirit and witness typical college experiences but at the end of the day very few legitimately cares about the team.
If this team had success and went far, students would care. When we haven't had any marginal tournament success in almost a decade, it's somewhat unfair to blame the students for not caring.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Feb 10, 2016 14:29:59 GMT -5
It's pretty simple. There are three reasons the students seem to not care:
1) We stink this year
2) Watching games at home has become almost preferable to being in attendance. It's a problem facing college and pro sports alike. The more availability of games on TV and the internet, the less reason to go to the arena.
3) We stink this year
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lichoya68
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 10, 2016 15:13:10 GMT -5
hoya blue take that challenge NOW fill verizon next game get out to see some great womens bball and all the other sports NOW iknow this is a national problem with student attendance so BLUE TAKE THE CHALLENGE. go hoyas its february now WRIGHT NOW.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Feb 10, 2016 15:27:43 GMT -5
On campus there is a general consensus that JT3 won't lead our team to any significant victory and that whenever our team does show any small glimmers of hope they will be immediately crushed. Currently only the senior class was at Georgetown long enough to see the original big east, everyone else now doesn't really know the intensity of a Syracuse game. Sure we have some good teams in the new big east, but the level of hatred is nowhere near the same. And that's just for maybe half of the student body. Everyone else on campus has absolutely no interest in the team and hasn't seen a game in their life. People will go to games but that's more of something to do to demonstrate school spirit and witness typical college experiences but at the end of the day very few legitimately cares about the team. If this team had success and went far, students would care. When we haven't had any marginal tournament success in almost a decade, it's somewhat unfair to blame the students for not caring. A general consensus? That seems to be overstating things.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Feb 10, 2016 16:21:39 GMT -5
The kids who are accepted at Georgetown are no the type of kids who skip class to go watch a soccer game Boy things have changed over the years. We used to skip class to watch The Price is Right. Skipping for a big time soccer team would have been a no brainer.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 10, 2016 16:30:44 GMT -5
The kids who are accepted at Georgetown are no the type of kids who skip class to go watch a soccer game Boy things have changed over the years. We used to skip class to watch The Price is Right. Skipping for a big time soccer team would have been a no brainer.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 10, 2016 16:40:52 GMT -5
On campus there is a general consensus that JT3 won't lead our team to any significant victory and that whenever our team does show any small glimmers of hope they will be immediately crushed. Currently only the senior class was at Georgetown long enough to see the original big east, everyone else now doesn't really know the intensity of a Syracuse game. Sure we have some good teams in the new big east, but the level of hatred is nowhere near the same. And that's just for maybe half of the student body. Everyone else on campus has absolutely no interest in the team and hasn't seen a game in their life. People will go to games but that's more of something to do to demonstrate school spirit and witness typical college experiences but at the end of the day very few legitimately cares about the team. If this team had success and went far, students would care. When we haven't had any marginal tournament success in almost a decade, it's somewhat unfair to blame the students for not caring. A general consensus? That seems to be overstating things. kc, I'll add that I have a relative who is an undergrad. Although he is a season ticket holder, goes to all the games and is a die-hard like me, over the Christmas break he told me something similar to what trillest wrote.
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