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Post by trillesthoya on Jan 6, 2016 1:06:41 GMT -5
One thing to note for everyone that thinks the world is ending:
Creighton is one of the only teams in the Big East that that is structured to beat us (small/fast pg with shooters). Nova is the second, but since it's Nova you know our guys are going to play for blood like we did against Duke/Maryland.
Everyone else is more or less fair game. Xavier is kind of a question mark without Sumner. Providence has Dunn but little depth behind him and Bentil. Dunham like DSR has been struggling with his shot this year for Butler.
The Big East is very much winnable for us. Need to be extremely lucky and fix the stupid mistakes, but no reason to say all hope is lost just yet.
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,488
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Post by hoyaboya on Jan 6, 2016 1:11:14 GMT -5
He didn't. It went off his hands out of bounds. They tied it with a three on that possession. If you have DVR, go back and look Kind of what I meant, but that was me being sarcastic and tired of plays like that; I agree with you. I've rambled on here only once before about JTIII, but only complaint that I'm comfortable with now is that Kaleb needs to play a lot more. There is no evidence that Tre should be playing more than Kaleb at this point. The Tre experiment has failed. There seems to be a reason he wasn't a top 100 recruit. The coaching staff blew it in their evaluation of him. Hopefully Mosley will take his minutes next year, but in the meantime, Kaleb has earned the playing time.
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mfk24
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,759
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Post by mfk24 on Jan 6, 2016 1:15:39 GMT -5
This doesn't explain how they are capable of then pushing teams like Maryland and Duke to the wire. Looking near invincible one half and collapsing the next. Are they good enough one minute and suddenly not good enough the next? Are they coached enough one minute and inexplicably not coached enough the next? Absolutely nothing in life is as black and white as you seem intent on making it, but alas there's no room for intelligent discussion with someone who either refuses to or incapable of reading more than 100 words at a time. It's a bottom line business in big time sports (which this board doesn't seem to see). You produce or you don't it's that easy. You are in the weeds. We miss tournament this year and continually regress but make excuses? Where does that end? And to answer your question, incapable of reading that drivel. You actually failed to answer the question I asked but now that we know you are unable to read, I can see why you continuously spout the same tired rhetoric over and over. I'm sure there are some Georgetown alums here that could help you with your reading and comprehension. We are men and women for others after all. Sure, this is big time sports but the coaching carousel does not move as swiftly as it does in the pros. Rick Barnes coached at Texas for 17 years before they fired him and he had not even a fraction of the familial or legacy ties to the program. Their last final 4 was 3 years before ours. This year, they are 9-5 and 1-1 in conference with a coach most anti-III posters on this board would trade for in a heartbeat. It's not that cut and dry.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Jan 6, 2016 1:28:31 GMT -5
It's a bottom line business in big time sports (which this board doesn't seem to see). You produce or you don't it's that easy. You are in the weeds. We miss tournament this year and continually regress but make excuses? Where does that end? And to answer your question, incapable of reading that drivel. You actually failed to answer the question I asked but now that we know you are unable to read, I can see why you continuously spout the same tired rhetoric over and over. I'm sure there are some Georgetown alums here that could help you with your reading and comprehension. We are men and women for others after all. Sure, this is big time sports but the coaching carousel does not move as swiftly as it does in the pros. Rick Barnes coached at Texas for 17 years before they fired him and he had not even a fraction of the familial or legacy ties to the program. Their last final 4 was 3 years before ours. This year, they are 9-7 and 0-1 in conference with a coach most on this board would trade for in a heartbeat. It's not that cut and dry. Maybe I can't read or maybe I choose not to. However, I make sense. The new Texas coach actually would be able to recruit Georgetown better then Texas as he would have better geographical ties. Everyone assumes Texas can do whatever they want but their primary sport can't win either. They have bigger issues with a bad AD and some other problems but not for this thread. Nice try to find some reference. Basketball for them is a second class citizen. In our world, it couldn't be more opposite. Let's just start looking at what we have and not pointing to others.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Jan 6, 2016 1:54:20 GMT -5
It's a bottom line business in big time sports (which this board doesn't seem to see). You produce or you don't it's that easy. You are in the weeds. We miss tournament this year and continually regress but make excuses? Where does that end? And to answer your question, incapable of reading that drivel. You actually failed to answer the question I asked but now that we know you are unable to read, I can see why you continuously spout the same tired rhetoric over and over. I'm sure there are some Georgetown alums here that could help you with your reading and comprehension. We are men and women for others after all. Sure, this is big time sports but the coaching carousel does not move as swiftly as it does in the pros. Rick Barnes coached at Texas for 17 years before they fired him and he had not even a fraction of the familial or legacy ties to the program. Their last final 4 was 3 years before ours. This year, they are 9-5 and 1-1 in conference with a coach most anti-III posters on this board would trade for in a heartbeat. It's not that cut and dry. Shaka Smart and Charlie Strong are swimming with the sharks now in Texas and with an A.D that did not hire them. If Charlie Strong does not win 8 to 9 games this next season, he is gone. Shaka Smart got 4 years max to get the team to at least a Sweet 16 or he is gone.
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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Jan 6, 2016 3:54:26 GMT -5
Creighton was better than Kansas tonight, and very underrated. Give JT3 some credit. Considering that Creighton is better than Kansas, we didn't do so bad.
Go JT3 and Hoyas!
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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Jan 6, 2016 4:08:30 GMT -5
We're gonna make the NCAA Tournament. At some point, this team is going to put it together and make a nice run Just the tourney? We are gonna win the NC and have another banner in McDonough! Creighton was really good today, they are quite underrated, imo, they are better than Kansas. JT3 coached fine today. It's no one's fault. And we are not gonna beat any teams that are better than Kansas. Go JT3 !!!
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
Posts: 4,991
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jan 6, 2016 5:32:37 GMT -5
One thing to note for everyone that thinks the world is ending: Creighton is one of the only teams in the Big East that that is structured to beat us (small/fast pg with shooters). Nova is the second, but since it's Nova you know our guys are going to play for blood like we did against Duke/Maryland. Everyone else is more or less fair game. Xavier is kind of a question mark without Sumner. Providence has Dunn but little depth behind him and Bentil. Dunham like DSR has been struggling with his shot this year for Butler. The Big East is very much winnable for us. Need to be extremely lucky and fix the stupid mistakes, but no reason to say all hope is lost just yet. you can't be serious. have you been watching this team play defense? previous teams could manage wins through offensive struggles because they played well defensively but this years team can't defend and fouls constantly. they can put together some wins coming up against depaul and st johns but i can't see the light all of a sudden going on for this team when they play the top half of the league. at best, this is at best a 10-8 team in the league. too many bad stretches on both ends of the floor.
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,900
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Jan 6, 2016 6:40:45 GMT -5
Our lineups were bizarre in the second half. Our defense isn't going to be there this year. And we pass poorly. With 15 games under our belt, we should be doing better than we are. Disappointing. Winning the next two would help give us some momentum to maybe steal one against Villanova, which would do wonders for our season.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Jan 6, 2016 8:12:29 GMT -5
Tough one, as that game was there for the taking, and it would have been a huge win.
Terrible game for Ike. Not only did not not provide points, but also he jacked up and missed a couple of bad "my turn to shoot" shots. That really hurt.
I like having Cameron out there, but he had a fairly poor game yesterday. Still, I will be very worried and upset if his minutes disappear. We need his offense and presence out there.
DSR was very good for most of that game. Toward the end, he needed to drive and get to the line. Still, a good performance. His passing seems to have improved by leaps and bounds in a couple of games, which is great.
LJ cannot foul that guy on the three. In fact, that shot MUST be blocked. He needs to respond much more quickly and take a much better angle.
Toward the end, for the love of mercy, go for the steal and not the foul. I am okay with giving up a layup because we triple-teamed the ball handler, but we cannot put them at the line up eight with two minutes or less remaining. At that point, it is steal the ball or lose.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,362
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Post by calhoya on Jan 6, 2016 8:29:38 GMT -5
Really a poor game for this team. Although they lost to a decent opponent on the road, the real reason for the loss was a complete loss of composure. I realize now that I have overvalued some players by comparing them to what they were (Hayes and Cameron) and by viewing them by what they could potentially become (Peak, Cameron). In each instance it has led to unrealistic expectations on my part.
Reggie and Hayes are so much better than they were in prior years but at this point they should be measured by what is reasonable to expect for a starting center and a 6th man coming off the bench at a big-time program. Reggie is all energy and a good outside shooter, but his ball-handling skills and his mental lapses remain below what is needed at critical times in a game. Hayes is a much-improved player, but as a post he remains very limited, presenting no outside threat (so why is a relatively slow center positioned at the top of the key when he presents zero threat out there and cannot rebound) and requires almost a perfect pass in the lane to avoid a turnover. On defense he clearly lacks the instincts of the much-maligned Hopkins from last year.
Copeland and Peak flash potential regularly but still must be judged by what they are today and not what we expect them to become. Copeland disappears far too frequently on both ends of the court and then gets frustrated and forces shots from distance or when covered. I find myself forgetting he is in the game even though his minutes often cannot be justified by his play. Peak just baffles me. At this point in his career he should be able to avoid the wild bull in a china closet charges into the lane, which just as often end up in an offensive foul or turnover as they do in a score. He just seems to lose it and try too hard to create often with disastrous results. On defense, the same over-aggressive approach sends him to the bench too often. It is just growing pains for a team that may still not be ready to take the next step.
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beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,475
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Post by beenaround on Jan 6, 2016 8:50:46 GMT -5
Looking at the talent on the team, individually...yeah its probably a 5 seed in the Tourney. However, the TEAM is out hustled and out executed on a regular basis....looks like an NIT team to me. I don't agree. I have real faith in this team and I think we'll find a rhythm at some point and make a run I would hope you are correct and I am wrong!!!
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 6, 2016 8:54:21 GMT -5
One thing to note for everyone that thinks the world is ending: Creighton is one of the only teams in the Big East that that is structured to beat us (small/fast pg with shooters). Nova is the second, but since it's Nova you know our guys are going to play for blood like we did against Duke/Maryland. Everyone else is more or less fair game. Xavier is kind of a question mark without Sumner. Providence has Dunn but little depth behind him and Bentil. Dunham like DSR has been struggling with his shot this year for Butler. The Big East is very much winnable for us. Need to be extremely lucky and fix the stupid mistakes, but no reason to say all hope is lost just yet. There is a difference between saying all hope is lost and saying we are not a good team. I think most people are saying the latter. This is CBB and crazier things have happened, but we haven't shown anything to convince me we aren't exactly the 9-6 team we are. Losing close games at the beginning of the season doesn't count for much.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 6, 2016 9:12:00 GMT -5
This doesn't explain how they are capable of then pushing teams like Maryland and Duke to the wire. Looking near invincible one half and collapsing the next. Are they good enough one minute and suddenly not good enough the next? Are they coached enough one minute and inexplicably not coached enough the next? Absolutely nothing in life is as black and white as you seem intent on making it, but alas there's no room for intelligent discussion with someone who either refuses to or incapable of reading more than 100 words at a time. It's a bottom line business in big time sports (which this board doesn't seem to see). You produce or you don't it's that easy. You are in the weeds. We miss tournament this year and continually regress but make excuses? Where does that end? And to answer your question, incapable of reading that drivel. How do you know it's drivel if you won't read it?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 6, 2016 9:35:50 GMT -5
Cameron was a disaster out there tonight. I'm not sure why he was out there so much but the lead evaporated and we were put In a hole before the athletic lineup came back in when it was too late. Our best line up especially in this game is the athletic lineup with Govan, Copeland, derrickson, LJ, DSR. That was the unit that they couldn't handle. I thinks the unit with Hayes-Cameron-DSR really struggles because they aren't the quickest or most athletic guys. When all three are in at the same time things just breakdown defensively and we go into a deficit. You can only cover for so many people. At least Hayes has some size but I think the rotation needs to be tightened and Cameron should only come in for spot minutes or to give someone a breather. Cameron was a negative tonight, no doubt. But you can't possibly think that he played worse than the Incredible Shrinking Mr. Copeland, can you?
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Jan 6, 2016 9:51:17 GMT -5
Really a poor game for this team. Although they lost to a decent opponent on the road, the real reason for the loss was a complete loss of composure. I realize now that I have overvalued some players by comparing them to what they were (Hayes and Cameron) and by viewing them by what they could potentially become (Peak, Cameron). In each instance it has led to unrealistic expectations on my part. Reggie and Hayes are so much better than they were in prior years but at this point they should be measured by what is reasonable to expect for a starting center and a 6th man coming off the bench at a big-time program. Reggie is all energy and a good outside shooter, but his ball-handling skills and his mental lapses remain below what is needed at critical times in a game. Hayes is a much-improved player, but as a post he remains very limited, presenting no outside threat (so why is a relatively slow center positioned at the top of the key when he presents zero threat out there and cannot rebound) and requires almost a perfect pass in the lane to avoid a turnover. On defense he clearly lacks the instincts of the much-maligned Hopkins from last year. Copeland and Peak flash potential regularly but still must be judged by what they are today and not what we expect them to become. Copeland disappears far too frequently on both ends of the court and then gets frustrated and forces shots from distance or when covered. I find myself forgetting he is in the game even though his minutes often cannot be justified by his play. Peak just baffles me. At this point in his career he should be able to avoid the wild bull in a china closet charges into the lane, which just as often end up in an offensive foul or turnover as they do in a score. He just seems to lose it and try too hard to create often with disastrous results. On defense, the same over-aggressive approach sends him to the bench too often. It is just growing pains for a team that may still not be ready to take the next step. I asked this same question during the 2nd half scoring drought vs. Marquette And HometownHoya advised me that he often wonders if I have ever seen a JTIII offense the last 10 years.
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 6, 2016 9:56:24 GMT -5
Really a poor game for this team. Although they lost to a decent opponent on the road, the real reason for the loss was a complete loss of composure. I realize now that I have overvalued some players by comparing them to what they were (Hayes and Cameron) and by viewing them by what they could potentially become (Peak, Cameron). In each instance it has led to unrealistic expectations on my part. Reggie and Hayes are so much better than they were in prior years but at this point they should be measured by what is reasonable to expect for a starting center and a 6th man coming off the bench at a big-time program. Reggie is all energy and a good outside shooter, but his ball-handling skills and his mental lapses remain below what is needed at critical times in a game. Hayes is a much-improved player, but as a post he remains very limited, presenting no outside threat (so why is a relatively slow center positioned at the top of the key when he presents zero threat out there and cannot rebound) and requires almost a perfect pass in the lane to avoid a turnover. On defense he clearly lacks the instincts of the much-maligned Hopkins from last year. Copeland and Peak flash potential regularly but still must be judged by what they are today and not what we expect them to become. Copeland disappears far too frequently on both ends of the court and then gets frustrated and forces shots from distance or when covered. I find myself forgetting he is in the game even though his minutes often cannot be justified by his play. Peak just baffles me. At this point in his career he should be able to avoid the wild bull in a china closet charges into the lane, which just as often end up in an offensive foul or turnover as they do in a score. He just seems to lose it and try too hard to create often with disastrous results. On defense, the same over-aggressive approach sends him to the bench too often. It is just growing pains for a team that may still not be ready to take the next step. I asked this same question during the 2nd half scoring drought vs. Marquette And HometownHoya advised me that he often wonders if I have ever seen a JTIII offense the last 10 years. That is still the answer. That is our offense. Considering Govan was draining 3s from the top of the arc and Hayes really didnt have any bad turnovers from there that I recall, I dont really see this to be a big problem for our offense. Hayes and Govan were also in the post plenty. The problem for our offense is that it needs players like Peak, Copeland and Cameron to score. It seems our 5s played quite well last night.
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Post by HometownHoya on Jan 6, 2016 10:03:03 GMT -5
Really a poor game for this team. Although they lost to a decent opponent on the road, the real reason for the loss was a complete loss of composure. I realize now that I have overvalued some players by comparing them to what they were (Hayes and Cameron) and by viewing them by what they could potentially become (Peak, Cameron). In each instance it has led to unrealistic expectations on my part. Reggie and Hayes are so much better than they were in prior years but at this point they should be measured by what is reasonable to expect for a starting center and a 6th man coming off the bench at a big-time program. Reggie is all energy and a good outside shooter, but his ball-handling skills and his mental lapses remain below what is needed at critical times in a game. Hayes is a much-improved player, but as a post he remains very limited, presenting no outside threat (so why is a relatively slow center positioned at the top of the key when he presents zero threat out there and cannot rebound) and requires almost a perfect pass in the lane to avoid a turnover. On defense he clearly lacks the instincts of the much-maligned Hopkins from last year. Copeland and Peak flash potential regularly but still must be judged by what they are today and not what we expect them to become. Copeland disappears far too frequently on both ends of the court and then gets frustrated and forces shots from distance or when covered. I find myself forgetting he is in the game even though his minutes often cannot be justified by his play. Peak just baffles me. At this point in his career he should be able to avoid the wild bull in a china closet charges into the lane, which just as often end up in an offensive foul or turnover as they do in a score. He just seems to lose it and try too hard to create often with disastrous results. On defense, the same over-aggressive approach sends him to the bench too often. It is just growing pains for a team that may still not be ready to take the next step. I asked this same question during the 2nd half scoring drought vs. Marquette And HometownHoya advised me that he often wonders if I have ever seen a JTIII offense the last 10 years. Because JT3 has had the C come out to the high post since the day he started here, don't be intentionally dense
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,910
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Post by Filo on Jan 6, 2016 10:05:03 GMT -5
I think Hayes' failure to / inability to take the ball into the paint is a huge problem. Recall the collective angst about Lubick doing the same? I think it is even worse with Hayes. The amount of space he was given by Creighton was embarrassing. If he simply took two dribbles, he would have been well into the paint and could have taken some pretty high percentage shots. He is either not capable of doing that or was coached not to do that. Either way, it is a huge flaw with this offense.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,362
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Post by calhoya on Jan 6, 2016 10:09:42 GMT -5
I asked this same question during the 2nd half scoring drought vs. Marquette And HometownHoya advised me that he often wonders if I have ever seen a JTIII offense the last 10 years. Because JT3 has had the C come out to the high post since the day he started here, don't be intentionally dense I understand how the offense works, but if you are watching the game you see that opponents are not going out to guard Hayes and were not doing so with Govan until he hit his 3s. I guess a better question is why you run that particular offense with a player like Hayes when the opponent simply stays back to clog the lane and deny the pass to the cutter? I thought the same thing last year.
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