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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 24, 2016 3:03:42 GMT -5
Tell me how many other high-major programs have fired their coaches after 6 games, and then gone on to the NCAA tournament or some level of success in that same season. Wisconsin last year did it after 12 games. I think we've seen enough to call that earlier. You are wrong, again. Bo Ryan intentionally stepped down mid season so that he could guarantee his assistant could get the job. He was not fired. And to answer your other question, yes it could get much worse.
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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Nov 24, 2016 4:23:32 GMT -5
Wisconsin last year did it after 12 games. I think we've seen enough to call that earlier. You are wrong, again. Bo Ryan intentionally stepped down mid season so that he could guarantee his assistant could get the job. He was not fired. And to answer your other question, yes it could get much worse. Don't think many of us would care how much worse it can get. There is not much of a difference between last season and a 25 losses season, in which both scenarios we do not even make the NCAAs tournament. This situation is like paying a hundred bucks for a cheeseburger at McD. Sure, maybe we will only get french fries with 100 bucks this season, but in both cases, the customer will get pretty annoyed.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 24, 2016 7:08:07 GMT -5
So we can all be on the record now from the most loyal of JTIII supporters on this board to the least, what is the bar for this season not to look at a change? I'll start by saying not making the NCAA's and it should be over without question. That's generous as I'm not even asking for any performance in the NCAA tournament. What say you? [THIS FEELS LIKE IT SHOULD BE A SEPARATE THREAD BUT SEEMS THAT IS NOW FROWNED UPON] I think an NCAA bid is a fair benchmark. Although it has not looked like it much of this season, there IS talent on this team, and enough that a solid coaching job should be able to at least scrape into the tourney. Knowing that Georgetown is often quite forgiving for coaches in all sports, I can't say whether barely missing the tournament followed by an NIT run might be enough (not that it should be); at that point the possible concern about keeping recruits could come into play. Right now it is awfully hard to envision even the NIT. If the coach can get this mess straightened out it will be an accomplishment. If not, it will be another black mark.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 24, 2016 7:47:06 GMT -5
KChoya, I miss your comments during the OK State game. You should be very proud, Georgetown only had 28 turnovers, OK State only scored 97 points and we only lost by 27 points. This is nothing to be embarrass about. We are playing great , the best basketball ever. Looking forward for your enlightened about the future of Georgetown Basketball. 1984 - I have to tell you that your obsession with kc is getting quite uncomfortable for the rest of us. Just know that we all support you, so go ahead, be bold and go for it - just send him a PM and ask him out. I have a good feeling about it. Let us know his response.
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GPHoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 466
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Post by GPHoya on Nov 24, 2016 8:46:42 GMT -5
We should not make any changes as long as we are content to become DePaul.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,381
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Post by calhoya on Nov 24, 2016 8:50:22 GMT -5
It really has less to do at this point with the loss or win but how the team looks. The team looks mediocre, at best. Terrible outside shooting, except for a couple of players, mindless turnovers, high school mistakes in terms of ball-handling decisions, poor rebounding, selfish play, inconsistent defense, a coach that is befuddled and most importantly a group who appear collectively fragile, waiting for the other shoe to drop and then quitting in terms of effort. At this point I am hard-pressed to see this team finishing with a winning record. This is not yet a team, but rather a collection of players that still have not identified their roles. My biggest complaint with this program in recent years is that parts do not fit together. Each team has a glaring weakness or two that has not been adequately addressed.
I know that another bad season could lead to a new coach--and I could not argue with outcome though it would be a sad day for all involved. However, in that case everyone should be braced for what comes next. Players will change and any new coach worth a damn will demand time to bring in his system and his players. Rebuilding is not often quick or without hiccups. It is also often not successful at first. Other programs that have fallen have struggled to regain their success.
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Post by puppydog100 on Nov 24, 2016 8:52:21 GMT -5
The Georgetown basketball program is a disaster. I know more about coaching than Coach K.
Let's make Georgetown basketball great again.
Donald J. Trump
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,333
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Post by vv83 on Nov 24, 2016 10:41:17 GMT -5
Whoever the coach is, the number one thing this program needs to develop is the will to compete for 40 minutes every night. Even if they lose, fans can to some extent live with that as long as the team is battling. This is my main long term concern with JTIII's teams - even in the good seasons, there are significant moments/stretches where the team simply does not compete as hard as their opponent. It is not even about effort entirely. There is a difference between trying hard and truly competing. Competing involves trying hard at the stuff that is unpleasant to do - digging into a low defensive stance every time, diving for every loose ball, sprinting back on defense every possession, boxing out aggressively on every shot that goes up, taking the ball strong to the basket through contact on drives and layups. You can play with a lot of effort but still not really compete if you are not doing this kind of stuff. And this is exactly the kind of stuff that JTIII teams have too often have been unable to deliver consistently.
The obvious contrast is with his father's teams. Even in the weaker post-Iverson years of the JT jr. era, those teams were still consistently competing. They could not shoot, they had little real offensive scheme, the recruiting decline left them hurting for talent. But they were still competing hard most of the time. JTIII has had pretty good talent on most of his teams, but he either does not know how to recruit enough kids who are natural competitors, or he does not know how to teach kids how to compete hard on a consistent basis. Probably a self-reinforcing cycle of both elements.
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,301
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Post by smokeyjack on Nov 24, 2016 11:33:03 GMT -5
Team is soft and terrible. No effort. No heart. This team is the antithesis of the grit upon which GU hoops was founded.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,650
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Nov 24, 2016 12:07:40 GMT -5
The team takes on the personality of the coach. I don't expect things to change. People are who they are at this point in their lives. The program needs a jumpstart, not a baton pass to an insider.
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Post by trillesthoya on Nov 24, 2016 12:11:40 GMT -5
The team takes on the personality of the coach. I don't expect things to change. People are who they are at this point in their lives. The program needs a jumpstart, not a baton pass to an insider. This is what scares me the most. Even if we get all the right recruits, assistant coaches, athletic trainers etc I don't see us ever returning to national prominence given the personality of the coach. There's a reason why we consistently fail to perform in high pressure situations, be it March or now the regular season.
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lucky
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 576
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Post by lucky on Nov 24, 2016 14:57:11 GMT -5
There was an entourage of no less than 8 assistants, trainers, whatever's on the bench with JTIII yesterday, and at least three more guys doing something in the stands just behind the bench. There is some major coin being spent for mediocre results. I saw AD Reid walking around not his smiling cheerful self at these tournaments. I actually walked out of the gym with 3 minutes to go because I was literally disgusted with the mistakes being made. Very simple fundamental stuff, one hand passes, one hand catches(turnovers). Big man turning their backs on a guard dribbling into the paint. 0 blocking out. I can go on but I won't. Anyone who saw the games saw the same.
Coach needs to go back to teaching fundamentals.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 24, 2016 15:08:48 GMT -5
Even if we get all the right recruits, assistant coaches, athletic trainers etc I don't see us ever returning to national prominence given the personality of the coach. There's a reason why we consistently fail to perform in high pressure situations, be it March or now the regular season. Coaches of all personalities have success. And if JT3's personality didn't allow success 2007 would've never happened and we wouldn't have gotten into the tournament with high seeds several times - including two seasons ago.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Nov 24, 2016 15:09:17 GMT -5
It is not his personality.
That same personality coached us to a sweet sixteen and Final Four.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 19,140
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 24, 2016 15:22:44 GMT -5
It is not his personality. That same personality coached us to a sweet sixteen and Final Four. Personality of coach/players have to be on the same page as was clearly evident in the Final Four team. Especially a PG who is sync with the coach. Players have to buy into and believe the system.
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deacon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,850
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Post by deacon on Nov 24, 2016 23:19:57 GMT -5
Maybe it's moms mac and cheese that has me in a much better mood than I was yesterday, but I saw this and had to laugh.
We're better than this. Come on coach, let's turn this thing around. Starts Sunday.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 24, 2016 23:28:31 GMT -5
I think a coach can run their course with a team and lose confidence. So pointing back to 2007 doesn't equate. It's just a thing where both sides need a change to move on. It's very natural and where we are.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 24, 2016 23:52:47 GMT -5
KChoya, I miss your comments during the OK State game. You should be very proud, Georgetown only had 28 turnovers, OK State only scored 97 points and we only lost by 27 points. This is nothing to be embarrass about. We are playing great , the best basketball ever. Looking forward for your enlightened about the future of Georgetown Basketball. 1984 - I have to tell you that your obsession with kc is getting quite uncomfortable for the rest of us. Just know that we all support you, so go ahead, be bold and go for it - just send him a PM and ask him out. I have a good feeling about it. Let us know his response. My advice to 1984 who seems logical in his posts is to keep it coming but stop calling out the subject. The subject is not relevant to anyone here and has nothing to say so don't bother giving him any attention as it cheapens your posts. He's just that canker sore this board can't heal. We'll be ok but he'll always be there, the more you scratch him the more he'll post. Not worth it.
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,049
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Post by dense on Nov 25, 2016 1:53:27 GMT -5
To me firing is a topic for once we see how this season goes. And to say definitively that we are going down the road of last season is premature. I think the fixing of this team will come from the team not from coaching. Isaac Copeland is too talented to play how he is and it has nothing to do with coaching. The inability to block out is not coaching. they were coached this at 7 yrs old. this is want to. no one is being a leader and calling out guys. thats why when I hear teams all like each other it is not necessarily a great thing. I think that is what is going on here
Remember for how "limited" Hopkins and Trawick were we won alot of games because those two took pride in hustling.
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Post by jamaicahoya on Nov 25, 2016 10:59:43 GMT -5
Dense, I'm with your observation. We shouldn't overlook we are playing a bunch of newcomers; that four of our opening games were against quality opponents; that our weaknesses are being exposed at the start of season rather than in the middle or at the end. I believe there is lots of room for growth. Coaching should be easier, in that it is easier to coach a player who knows his limitations, rather than one who is full of himself. I am still rather optimistic on the season.
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